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AirTags


4SwansMPB

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Posted

Are there any guideline for putting an AirTag on a trackable?   We grabbed a TB from a cache and found out when we got home that it had an AirTag attached.  Didn't know until an iPhone notified us that there was one nearby.   The TB description mentions that the bug contains a GPS tracker, but most cachers don't check the description when they grab the trackable.  We don't.  We log it at home later.  

 

Though an interesting idea to find your trackable, Isn't this a major privacy violation since the trackable is now tracking US, not just the TB?   So any cacher who picks up this TB after us can see where it went - including where we live.  Not sure what to do.  We searched the forums and the geocaching site but found no reference to AirTags.

 

Do we try to disable the AirTag?

TB with AirTag.jpg

  • Upvote 2
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, 4SwansMPB said:

any cacher who picks up this TB after us can see where it went - including where we live.

 

It doesn't work exactly like that.  The map data is sent to the owner only.  A cacher would first need to go to your home to get the "nearby Air Tag" notification, in which case they already know where you live.  But the notification in that case is not specific about which tag it is.

Here's some Air Tag info:  https://www.apple.com/airtag/

The battery is removable.

 

But the tag owner can see where it goes (when nearby phones are set up for the tracking).  I haven't seen a Geocaching restriction about attaching these things to TBs.  But if you see something in a cache that you don't like, you're not required to take it home.

 

 

Edited by kunarion
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Posted

We didn’t know it had the AirTag until we got home and my phone notified me. We don’t usually look up the description of each trackable we grab at the caches though I guess we’ll have to start now. 
 

I can look at the AirTag journey on its map. I can see it was activated a short distance from the cache and then I can see it’s journey with us. 

Posted (edited)
41 minutes ago, 4SwansMPB said:

I can look at the AirTag journey on its map. I can see it was activated a short distance from the cache and then I can see it’s journey with us. 

 

You see on a map where you traveled with the tag?  I read your OP as concerns about everyone seeing where you've been, which doesn't happen (it tells the tag owner).  But the concern is that it tells you where you've been?  :drama:

 

A lot of Geocachers grab all the Trackables they can find and seem unable to release the Trackables.  Yet they supposedly "carry the entire sack of taken TBs forevermore and 'Visit' them in caches".  I can see why a TO may decide to put a tracking device on a Trackable.  I wouldn't advise it, but I understand the frustration of wondering if it is in fact in a box in someone's home.  I place TBs into another cache and log the drop (or leave it there in the case of no known cache in which to place it).  I don't take them home, so "Air Tags" wouldn't an issue for me.

 

Anyway, remember that the battery is removable.  You can also set your phone to not assist such tags.  The Air Tag location issue goes beyond Geocaching.

 

Edited by kunarion
Posted

Adding an AirTag to a TB strikes me as unethical.  While the intention may have been to track the TB, the result is tracking a person without their consent or knowledge.  Adding an AirTag is also creepy, for the same reason.  Depending on where a person keeps their geocaching kit, the tag could track much more than just their home. And that is bad enough. 
 

This is what I would do: I would use a hand sledge or hammer to remove the battery so the battery can be properly disposed of.  After determining that the tag is disabled, I would dispose of the tag in the trash.  I would then drop the TB into a difficult cache, but not record the drop. 

  • Upvote 3
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Posted (edited)
49 minutes ago, Joe_L said:

Adding an AirTag to a TB strikes me as unethical.  While the intention may have been to track the TB, the result is tracking a person without their consent or knowledge.

 

The tag doesn't do any tracking, the phone is the device tracking you, and it has apps that by default track without your knowledge or consent, many people around the world are tracking you to your secret place.  OK, there was an Agree button here and there at some point.  But if one has set up the phone to not be traceable, the Air Tag is a non issue.  It will therefore also be not tracking.

 

The TB taker should be telling the TO exactly where the TB is.  In a secret geocaching kit, at home or wherever.  An Air Tag may be a little more up to date, but the taker should be doing that tracking.  It's a Trackable item, Air Tag or not.

 

Rather than destroying things that you don't like, leave it alone in its cache.  Especially in this case.

Edited by kunarion
  • Upvote 1
Posted
3 hours ago, kunarion said:

Anyway, remember that the battery is removable. 

My first thought was to wonder what a microwave oven might do to an AirTag. But removing the battery is probably a more appropriate response.

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  • Helpful 1
Posted
7 minutes ago, kunarion said:

It's a Trackable item, Air Tag or not.

Yes, but we don't log our home address (or any travels in between) when we take a TB home with us.  We log that we took it from a cache and then when we place it in a cache.

 

Posted (edited)
59 minutes ago, 4SwansMPB said:

Yes, but we don't log our home address (or any travels in between) when we take a TB home with us.  We log that we took it from a cache and then when we place it in a cache.

 

 

You are being tracked by many people, organizations and governments, by signals sent from your phone.  An Air Tag in a Geocache is another signal, but very uncommon, and the least likely to be an issue.  You can opt to not take TBs from a cache if they might have Air Tags, but you probably take your phone to your address frequently.

 

The battery is easily removable by hand.

 

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT211670

Edited by kunarion
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Posted
1 minute ago, kunarion said:

The battery is easily removable by hand.

But I bet using "a hand sledge or hammer" would be much more satisfying... ;)

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, niraD said:

But I bet using "a hand sledge or hammer" would be much more satisfying... ;)

 

That would definitely shut it off. 🙂 

 

While looking into these things, I found out they chirp when away from the owner's phone, and that a finder can also make it chirp.  That gives me ideas for inexpensive stages to a Mystery cache.  A waterproof button device that will last a year on a watch battery?  Or even as a proximity key that you must find and bring to open a cache. Intriguing.

Except that just a few hours after the OP found one, the thread has already devolved into suggestions on how to destroy it.  🤔 

 

Edited by kunarion
Posted

AirTags were made to locate lost or misplaced (and I suppose stolen) possessions, like keys or backpacks.  Presumably, one would go to that location to recover the item.  I would expect the same from a tagged TB - someone will come to my door and confront me about it. 
 

 

  • Upvote 2
Posted

So take it outside, put it in a safe place away from your home, and the next time you go caching, get it and put it in a cache. *shrug*

 

Quote

Presumably, one would go to that location to recover the item.  I would expect the same from a tagged TB - someone will come to my door and confront me about it. 

Why would you expect that? It was put on a TB, which is meant to travel. Unless you keep it for a long time, THEN maybe the owner would confront you about it - since you'd be hoarding their property.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, TriciaG said:

 Unless you keep it for a long time, THEN maybe the owner would confront you about it - since you'd be hoarding their property.

 

+1

If so, I do empathize with that Trackable Owner.  Maybe the TO lost TBs to hoarders and is trying a new idea. 

 

Maybe the TO just thought it would be fun and didn't consider it so creepy that people may hit it with a hammer.  

 

Maybe it's part of a complex puzzle cache.  If it was my TB, I'd have included a durable information sheet regardless.  So that finders can weigh the risk of taking it.

 

Edited by kunarion
Posted

It's possible that the "air tag" is simply the item attached.  TO thought it was cool...  Probably didn't consider other's privacy.

Seems the item attached to TBs is what most hoarders are after, the dog tags alone just not shiny enough.    ;)

We're not talking a tiny microchip here.  So if security of a trackable was the concern, that thing was way too obvious.  :laughing:

Since I probably wouldn't know what it is, I'd probably Discover it and done.

I could see someone tempted to disable it JIC it "tagged" their phone in real time though...  

Posted
5 hours ago, Joe_L said:

Adding an AirTag to a TB strikes me as unethical.  While the intention may have been to track the TB, the result is tracking a person without their consent or knowledge.  Adding an AirTag is also creepy, for the same reason.

 

If that was the intention, I agree.  Kinda like someone having a trail cam at their cache and not tell anyone.

Thought it was a good idea except for those "squatting gal" pics it caught 30 feet away...

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Posted

Owner's response to my concerns:

 

"Nope thats not how it works,no other Geocacher can see any past locations. But thanks for the opportunity to explain disappointment, importance of reading and Luddites to my young son in one conversation. Have a great night."

 

And he deleted the log so now the TB is listed as being in our hands with no log to show when it was grabbed.   I cannot log it again, only write a note.  Which I'm sure he'd remove again.

 

And his justification of "no other Geocacher can see any past locations" (if that is even true) does not change the fact that HE now knows where we live and will also know where the next cacher who grabs it and takes it home with them lives.  And anywhere they go in between.  It tracked our visit to another cache after grabbing it.  Just disturbing.

Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, 4SwansMPB said:

Owner's response to my concerns:

 

"Nope thats not how it works,no other Geocacher can see any past locations. But thanks for the opportunity to explain disappointment, importance of reading and Luddites to my young son in one conversation. Have a great night."

 

And he deleted the log so now the TB is listed as being in our hands with no log to show when it was grabbed.   I cannot log it again, only write a note.  Which I'm sure he'd remove again.

 

And his justification of "no other Geocacher can see any past locations" (if that is even true) does not change the fact that HE now knows where we live and will also know where the next cacher who grabs it and takes it home with them lives.  And anywhere they go in between.  It tracked our visit to another cache after grabbing it.  Just disturbing.

 

Remove the battery.  Put the TB into a cache and log the drop.  If that log gets deleted, it's now out of your hands.

 

 

 

Edited by kunarion
Posted

I can't get it open!   I don't have a hex tool that small.   I know I have a kit around for a Mac laptop that might have one in it....just haven't found it yet.

Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, 4SwansMPB said:

I can't get it open!   I don't have a hex tool that small.   I know I have a kit around for a Mac laptop that might have one in it....just haven't found it yet.

 

The Interwebs told me it pops off by hand.  It's bolted on?

 

Without specifics, all Forum Members can do is guess what's going on.  But worst case scenario, the battery is expected to last 1 year.  TBs can languish in a single cache for longer than that.  And according to Apple, the one you found will be "chirping", which, wild guess, causes the battery to drain faster.

 

Edited by kunarion
Posted
11 hours ago, 4SwansMPB said:

"no other Geocacher can see any past locations" (if that is even true)

Yes, that is true. Question: aside from knowing where it is, can YOU see its past locations?

Posted
11 hours ago, 4SwansMPB said:

I can't get it open!   I don't have a hex tool that small.   I know I have a kit around for a Mac laptop that might have one in it....just haven't found it yet.

 

To note: You might not want its last recorded location to be your home. :P

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, thebruce0 said:

 

To note: You might not want its last recorded location to be your home. :P

 

Once it was brought home, that location was recorded.

 

The AirTag itself doesn't record anything, nor have any location tracking ability.  It's a Bluetooth beacon with a unique ID (and it can make a chirp sound).  All of the "tracking" is done within the phone(s) and with Apple servers. 

 

If one is concerned that there could be be some nefarious tracking device inside a cache, don't take anything, or at least stop taking things home.  And modern Smartphones send tons of such personal data all the time to strangers, and without the need of an AirTag.  So if you don't want your home location known, don't bring your phone there.

 

I would like to know the TB Owner's side of the story. And before everyone insists that there can be only one side, I'd at least like to know which TB it is.

 

Edited by kunarion
Posted

The owner has since updated the description on the TB page to say it is part of a school project.  The problem is, most cachers (at least the ones that I know) do not look up a TB description or even the title when grabbing it from a cache.  

 

to TriciaG - I can see a small path where it looks like the tag was activated and then walked to the cache site.  There were no logs before mine on the TB page, so I assume I was the first to grab it.  It was released on 5 March 2023.

 

to thebruce0 - we will be dropping it in another cache shortly - with a note attached that warns of the tracking device.

 

to kunarion - I'm sure it was an innocent attempt to track his TB and he now says it's part of a school project.  I just don't think he took into consideration that it would be tracking the cachers, too. That's the main problem here.  TB9XJ5V

Posted (edited)
38 minutes ago, 4SwansMPB said:

to kunarion - I'm sure it was an innocent attempt to track his TB and he now says it's part of a school project.  I just don't think he took into consideration that it would be tracking the cachers, too. That's the main problem here.  TB9XJ5V

 

There is no way for the Air Tag to track nor record anything.  It is not a GPS device.  Apple's "Tracking" happens exclusively on connected phones. 

 

For example, I don't have an iPhone, and I cache using a GPS that is offline.  Even when I used an iPhone, it was often not receiving data (and before that, didn't even have a phone subscription).  I could be near an AirTag or move it to another cache and no tracking would occur.  But your connected phone is always tracking you, especially all the way home, and more accurately with intermediate points.

 

I can't look up TB info in the field.  If I don't like a TB, or if I don't want to risk handling a TB for whatever reason (usually it's due to hopelessly scrambled TB logs), I leave it there.  I especially won't take a TB home and realize I don't want it at home and then keep it at home and consider plans to destroy it and it's still at my home.  Try using "Discover" logs instead.  I do that most often lately. B)

 

Thanks for the TB reference number.  What the TO intends to do with that AirTag "as a school project", I can't tell.  It definitely looks poorly thought-out as a project.  I sometimes place TBs into quiet caches where the TB is not touched for years.  The AirTag battery may last a year, and what then?  I don't like how Apple has integrated "AirTag" into the iPhone so you can't turn off that one feature.  Of course that would ruin a business plan and defeat the purpose.  OTOH, AirTag was never designed to be a Geocaching thing.

 

I also note that the same TO placed a "Tile" device as a TB a few years ago with even less TB info.  That device required installation and activation of a special App in order for any "tracking" to occur.  Plus those had sealed batteries and are deactivated by the company after 1 year (the company plan was that you buy a new one every year).  Tile also had no GPS, and stored no data.

 

Edited by kunarion
Posted

I can’t figure out the nested quote function, but a while back a comment was made about why I would think that the AirTag owner would show up.  That is because that is the way AirTags are marketed.  After the lost object is located, the AirTag owner goes to pick it up. 
 

There was the question of hoarding, but what about forgetfulness or less frequent caching.  Four weeks seems to be the general guideline for dropping a found TB. Would a TB-AirTag owner show up at week five?  Remember, the beep was added to minimize/prevent stalking so the use of AirTags can go beyond finding lost keys.  
 

I never expected to see an AirTag on a TB, but now I’ll take a closer look.  

 

 

Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Joe_L said:

There was the question of hoarding, but what about forgetfulness or less frequent caching.  Four weeks seems to be the general guideline for dropping a found TB. Would a TB-AirTag owner show up at week five?

 

That's more like a Geocaching issue, and less an AirTag issue.  When did we agree on "Four Weeks"?  Many of my TBs have the specific request that you may pick it up and place it into a cache, or don't take it at all.  No "weeks" mentioned.  And that if you do take it, to please post actual logs, no blank "took-it-to" logs, and "Discover" is an alternative if one is forgetful.  I also remind people right on the TB page, people who "can't find a cache to place it in", that they already know where the TB will fit perfectly right now.

 

Wait... now there's a week five??  :wacko:

 

If the hoarders were in fact posting real updates during those weeks, that would be different.  And if a TB Owner locates the hoard and arrives at "week five" to claim personal property, I'm coming, too.  I shall explain the cash value total of the "forgotten" items to law enforcement.  And most of the items in that box have been non-logged and out of play, not for just 5 weeks, but for years.  It's still not an AirTag thing, it's a Geocaching thing, and barely even that.  You know who owns the item ("Trackable" anyone?), therefore you do not take it home and keep it without consent.

 

Edited by kunarion
  • Upvote 2
Posted
19 minutes ago, Joe_L said:

I can’t figure out the nested quote function, but a while back a comment was made about why I would think that the AirTag owner would show up.  That is because that is the way AirTags are marketed.  After the lost object is located, the AirTag owner goes to pick it up. 

 

The airtag will be disabled if you turn off your apple products ((iphone, ipad) and can not be tracked by an android product. That being said if you are worried about the tb owner knowing your home location take it to the nearest cache and drop it (have your iphone on so that it shows the location). It only tracks the whereabout of the tag not you.

Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, kunarion said:
4 hours ago, thebruce0 said:

 

To note: You might not want its last recorded location to be your home. :P

 

Once it was brought home, that location was recorded.

 

Let me re-emphasize: You might not want its LAST recorded location to be your home.

I know it's already been recorded (though the record doesn't state "XYZ person's home", it would have to be inferred by longer periods of not moving).

 

 

As for Airtag working and privacy...

More specifically, no it doesn't have gps or cell reception, it uses bluetooth and connects to Apple's network via nearby equipped devices (ie, Apple devices with bluetooth enabled), which report the location when it has internet connectivity.  The device can also display the AirTag's info like the owner, contact, etc.  It's really just a little physical beacon and any device equipped to understand the beacon will report back to its hq with the info.  So if you live close to an Apple "Find My" equipped bluetooth device, then its location will be reported to Apple and thus to the AirTag's owner.

 

It's not a live tracker. Someone can't follow you live down the street like in the movies (beyond direct bluetooth range, which it essentially can, for things like lost keys in your living room). But the chances of it being accurately and regularly located any populated place in the world are very high, especially in airports (one of its biggest uses for tracking luggage). 

 

People who do have "Find Me" equipped bluetooth devices (iPhones, iPads, etc) can't disable the automated background ability to 'help' AirTags ping the network with their location (ie ignore the AirTag bluetooth ping). That's done entirely anonymously. According to Apple: "Disabling the Find My network on your device, turning off Bluetooth, or turning off Location Services on your iPhone will not prevent the owner of the AirTag, AirPods, or Find My network accessory from being able to see the location of that AirTag or accessory. You must disable the [AirTag]..."

You would have to disable the AirTag itself, before it pinged the network in some manner with its location. Being able to disable that background automated feature on mobile devices would essentially potentially cripple the benefit of the entire "Find My" system for tracking/locating lost devices.

 

That's why using an AirTag tracker (or any brand, really) attached to a Travelbug is inherently adding a bit of privacy risk to the tracking ability of the AirTag. It necessarily means that if it's pinged at your home location for an extended period, the tag's owner could infer the location of your home especially if comparing to logs posted to the TB.

 

 

I wouldn't add a tracker, because there are people (as commented above) who would choose to destroy it, or "lose" it :P.  Probably more chance of that happening than a geocoin going missing.

Edited by thebruce0
Posted
5 hours ago, kunarion said:

I can't look up TB info in the field.  If I don't like a TB, or if I don't want to risk handling a TB for whatever reason (usually it's due to hopelessly scrambled TB logs), I leave it there.  I especially won't take a TB home and realize I don't want it at home and then keep it at home and consider plans to destroy it and it's still at my home.  Try using "Discover" logs instead.  I do that most often lately.

The TB looked like a keychain when we grabbed it (see photo above).   No reason to suspect anything else.    

 

Yes, it is still sitting in my house and not in another cache because I'm waiting for an answer from Groundspeak before I do anything with the TB.  The TO already knows where I live so moving it won't really make a difference now.    I did just receive an email and it said:

 

Thank you for contacting Geocaching HQ.

Your email is very important to us and requires some additional time to troubleshoot or look into. Please know we will do our best to get back to you as soon as possible.

In the meantime, you may find an answer to your question in our online Help Center.

Best regards,

Nikki
Community Manager

  • Upvote 1
Posted
1 hour ago, 4SwansMPB said:

The TB looked like a keychain when we grabbed it (see photo above).   No reason to suspect anything else.    

 

Yes, it is still sitting in my house and not in another cache because I'm waiting for an answer from Groundspeak before I do anything with the TB.  The TO already knows where I live so moving it won't really make a difference now.    I did just receive an email and it said:

 

Thank you for contacting Geocaching HQ.

Your email is very important to us and requires some additional time to troubleshoot or look into. Please know we will do our best to get back to you as soon as possible.

In the meantime, you may find an answer to your question in our online Help Center.

Best regards,

Nikki
Community Manager

 

Unless it's something dangerous, I'd expect it's allowed.  AirTags simply use the tracking ability of the phone, and phones are allowed for Geocaching.

 

But I'd prefer an option to shut off "tag trackers".  There are many things that Apple either requires or won't allow, that I don't like.  And now I've switched back to Android.  By default Droid doesn't automatically talk to the tags.

 

The TO's previous "Tile" tracking device traveled from the US to Europe, looks like without issue.  For over a year.  Until somecacher justified destroying it or hoarding it or "forgetting" it.  Whatever.  The usual.

Posted
7 hours ago, kunarion said:

Unless it's something dangerous, I'd expect it's allowed.  AirTags simply use the tracking ability of the phone, and phones are allowed for Geocaching.

 

Phones used for geocaching aren't willingly and covertly providing location data to the owner of a 3rd party device (willingly and covertly - giving an app permission is different).  It's not "simply using" the tracking ability of the phone. The "tracking ability" is highly privatized and protected. It just so happens that the nature of physical TB movement combined with the nature of periodic location pings from tracking tags opens the door to legit privacy and safety concerns.  Geocaching is very strict about that kind of stuff. I wouldn't be surprised if HQ might add some kind of fine print to the TOU about using tracking devices attached to trackable items precisely because a suspicious person could use the geocaching activity and the tag's reporting to perform questionable things in that way. HQ can't tell people what to do if they come across a tag like that (property right and all that), but they could take action against a TB owner (warning/banning/etc) if reported that they disobey the TB rules.

 

That said, it's not currently against the rules. So, TB-grabber beware, I guess.

Posted
On 3/19/2023 at 11:49 AM, kunarion said:

When did we agree on "Four Weeks"?  Many of my TBs have the specific request that you may pick it up and place it into a cache, or don't take it at all.  No "weeks" mentioned. 

Sorry about that.  I didn't look at the Help Center before posting which says to place it in another cache 2 to 3 weeks after picking one up.  Bad memory.

 

There is also nuance to the terms used about tracking that I didn't appreciate.  But in the end, considering the popularity of iPhones in the US, the tag's position will probably be conveyed to the tag owner's phone.  Per the graphics on the AirTag website, the tag's location and address are identified on a map.

 

In the TB part of the game, once a TB is released into the wild, the only knowledge that a TO has about the TB is the cache that it is in or the cacher who has the TB.  And that applies to the expectations of the cachers who pick up the TB.  Obtaining a home address without consent is just unethical.

  • Upvote 2
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Joe_L said:

Obtaining a home address without consent is just unethical.

 

Apple iPhones have no setting to shut of the one feature, no way to turn off ability for the address to be sent to the owner of an AirTag.  That's probably the selling point of the tags, because the person other than the AirTag owner bringing it home is a person of interest in the theft of an item (the value of AirTags being at least to pinpoint where the lost item went).  So it may not be uncommon for AirTag owners to obtain addresses without consent.  It likely happens.  Therefore, I'd bet if you look through the "TOU" on the phone, the documents one agrees to in order to start using any iPhone, I would be surprised if it didn't have something about the possibility that people will obtain the address of the AirTag when the AirTag wanders.  And that the iPhone users all clicked "agree" to this.  Otherwise, you could disagree with that part and be able to un-select the feature.

 

Also, never place a fresh battery into someone else's AirTag TB.  They only last about a year.  Place the TB into a cache, ideally a metal container, in a quiet cache, wait a year, and then take it home.  No sledge hammer necessary.  I don't fully appreciate why alleged Geocachers take TBs home when the TBs then seem to remain in a home forever.  But I'm sure that's not unethical. :omnomnom:

 

 

Edited by kunarion
Posted
36 minutes ago, kunarion said:

Apple iPhones have no setting to shut of the one feature, no way to turn off ability for the address to be sent to the owner of an AirTag.  That's probably the selling point of the tags, because the person other than the AirTag owner bringing it home is a person of interest in the theft of an item (the value of AirTags being at least to pinpoint where the lost item went).  So it may not be uncommon for AirTag owners to obtain addresses without consent.  It likely happens.  Therefore, I'd bet if you look through the "TOU" on the phone, the documents one agrees to in order to start using any iPhone, I would be surprised if it didn't have something about the possibility that people will obtain the address of the AirTag when the AirTag wanders.  And that the iPhone users all clicked "agree" to this.  Otherwise, you could disagree with that part and be able to un-select the feature.

That's why mobile devices connected to the "Find My" network alert its user when they're in the detectable vicinity of an AirTag. That way if you were to pick up a TB with an AirTag, get alerted that there's one nearby, you can choose to leave it or take it knowing that it'll track your location if you take it home. Only GPS location, but that can easily be used to obtain an address. Nonetheless, while you can't turn off the auto-detection and tracking feature telling the tag where it is, you can choose to leave it there.

 

You should never end up near one without an instance of being alerted that you're near one - precisely for privacy's sake.

Posted
9 hours ago, thebruce0 said:

That's why mobile devices connected to the "Find My" network alert its user when they're in the detectable vicinity of an AirTag. That way if you were to pick up a TB with an AirTag, get alerted that there's one nearby, you can choose to leave it or take it knowing that it'll track your location if you take it home. Only GPS location, but that can easily be used to obtain an address. Nonetheless, while you can't turn off the auto-detection and tracking feature telling the tag where it is, you can choose to leave it there.

 

You should never end up near one without an instance of being alerted that you're near one - precisely for privacy's sake.

 

Problem is, my phone did not alert me until many hours later.  It was an hour drive from the cache location to home.  No alert on the drive home.  I saw the alert the next morning and had no idea what it meant.  Only after I figured out how to look at the info on my phone did I see the map and realize where it came from.

 

Is it possible for the owner to turn the tag off?  My phone is no longer detecting it and it's sitting right next to the tag.  I just tried searching for items and it doesn't see it.  The arirag does chirp if I move it though.

 

BTW - it is going into a "quiet cache" soon.  Still waiting to hear back from Groundspeak.   Got a message that it "requires some additional time to troubleshoot or look into".

 

Posted

Could be low battery? To my understanding the tag can't be turned off without the owner knowing or doing it themselves (otherwise that would defeat the purpose of tracking something with it like luggage).

Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, 4SwansMPB said:

Is it possible for the owner to turn the tag off?  My phone is no longer detecting it and it's sitting right next to the tag.  I just tried searching for items and it doesn't see it.  The arirag does chirp if I move it though.

 

The only things I've read so far are, the system is integrated into iPhone, the AirTag will chirp when separated from the Owner's phone, and the owner and taker may also send a "chirp" command.  And the Owner and taker get notified.  I don't know if any specifics are shown ("AirTag #12345678 has been detected" or whatever, but there must be a unique identifier.

 

I've had other tags and Bluetooth devices, with mixed results on how well the phone detects them.  My iPhone and now my Samsung can almost never even see my Garmin Oregon.  So your phone does similar things, and maybe it's normal.  Or at least common.  That would explain why you got the notice after a long time.

 

Edited by kunarion
Posted

It's not just iPhone, it's any mobile device that's connected to the "Find My" network. (minor point)

Audible chirps don't happen just being apart from the owner's phone. The owner can send the chirp command to the device (just like any other device on the Find My network) if they want. That's how you can find your device (or tag) if it's lost but nearby. But the tag (or lost device) still has to be within proximity of a device that's communicating with the Find My network to receive the command to audibly chirp.

Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, thebruce0 said:

It's not just iPhone, it's any mobile device that's . (minor point)

Audible chirps don't happen just being apart from the owner's phone. The owner can send the chirp command to the device (just like any other device on the Find My network) if they want. That's how you can find your device (or tag) if it's lost but nearby. But the tag (or lost device) still has to be within proximity of a device that's communicating with the Find My network to receive the command to audibly chirp.

 

OK, I found conflicting statements in the same articles.

 

"Do AirTags Work With Android?
No. You cannot use your Android phone to set up a new AirTag or track the item it is tagged to. So, if you were planning on purchasing an AirTag to use with your Android phone, look at other alternatives on the market.

However, it is possible to scan an AirTag using an Android device with NFC to find more information about its owner. So, if you ever find an item tagged with an AirTag marked as lost, tap the back of your Android phone to the tracker. A page will open with details about the AirTag and its owner, which you can use to contact the owner."

 

Then it goes on to say how to work with AirTags on Android.  So maybe they in fact mean they work great "connected to the "Find My" network", but not so great that it's recommended a recommended tag to buy for your Android.  I don't have any specific "App" that any tutorial talks about.  But the article goes on to say I can see more tag info using the NFC capability of my phone.

 

Edited by kunarion
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, 4SwansMPB said:

Is it possible for the owner to turn the tag off?

 

Take a look at this:

https://www.macrumors.com/how-to/disable-an-airtag-found-moving-with-you/

 

I don't know if that works.  I have no "Find My" App on my Android, but I do have a finding capability setting (in Security And Privacy) that I can turn on or off, which says it's for finding my lost phone and says nothing about it being for my phone assisting other Tags.  I guess it's so that other phones can find my phone.  So this is still not a Geocaching problem, but phone manufacturers have become coy and super creepy about helping tracker devices track strangers.  And of course, it's a 110% fact that your phone with no "tag" anywhere is being tracked by thousands of groups, companies, and governments, all of whom you can trust as much as (or even less than) someone who would secretly get you to take an additional tracking thing home.

 

Edited by kunarion
Posted (edited)

Here's another informative article - https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/apple-launches-airtags-and-find-my-detector-app-for-android-in-effort-to-boost-privacy/

 

Of note, the amount of time it takes for a tag to begin alerting people to its presence when away from its owner now seems to be 8 to 24 hours, rather than 3 days. I take that to mean you could have had a tag with you for up to 3 days (prior to this update) without it being detectable. Then your i-device would begin alerting that an AirTag is nearby. Otherwise it would remain silent and undetected, still pinging its location via any Find My enabled device within proximity.

 

Android devices aren't connected to the Find My network, but Apple has now provided an Android app to allow them to detect nearby AirTags (as other Apple devices already have, once the period away from the owner is reached), and provide the functionality for users to work with the tag.  (They've also allowed 3rd party devices to be trackable on the network instead of just Apple devices)

 

Once the tag is detected (by whatever device) the user can do things like make it chirp, see contact info, and see instructions to remove the battery. (or I think make use of the NFC ability to access its details, which isn't only for Apple devices)

Edited by thebruce0
Posted

The Airtag is in a holder that has 4 very tiny hex screws.  I do not have an allen wrench or other wrench that small to open it up.  My phone instructions for disabling the tag say to remove the battery.  Can't do that if I can't open it.  The macrumors article instructions do not work for this. 

 

After receiving the original notification, I tried to make it chirp via my phone and it did not do anything.  It chirps when I pick it up - sometimes.  My phone no longer detects it and if I try top search for the item nearby, it find nothing.  Strange. But then, this whole 'adventure' has been pretty strange.

 

 

Posted

Latest update - at least it sounds like they are taking it seriously.

 

"Thank you for contacting Geocaching HQ.

We have brought this matter to our team for discussion and are currently looking into this request.

Can you please provide the trackable identification code for this trackable?

Best regards,

Nikki
Community Manager"

  • Upvote 1
Posted
20 hours ago, 4SwansMPB said:

Latest update - at least it sounds like they are taking it seriously.

 

"Thank you for contacting Geocaching HQ.

We have brought this matter to our team for discussion and are currently looking into this request.

Can you please provide the trackable identification code for this trackable?

Best regards,

Nikki
Community Manager"

 

(...so we can activate the tag's on-board camera.....Can you turn to the left a little?)

  • Funny 1
  • Helpful 1
Posted

Groundspeak still hasn't decided.  I asked them again and this was the response...

 

"Thank you for your patience as our team is still looking into this request.

In the meantime, if you do not feel comfortable holding onto the trackable, we recommend placing it back into the geocache where you originally found it, or moving it along to another geocache.

When a decision is made, we will reach out to the trackable owner directly."

 

So move it along to it can track another unsuspecting cacher.  Will do.

  • Helpful 1
Posted

TB was dropped into a cache today.  3 year resurrection on that mystery cache so I don't think it will get found again for a bit.  Maybe battery will run out by then.  Good riddance to it.

  • Upvote 1
  • Helpful 2
Posted

When the air-tags came about, i did not think much about it. Then one day, i was thinking how one could use one of these to help find a cache in the wild, but not a TB.

 

Now as for myself, i would happily take a TB with a tracker on it. Why?

Well first; i do (yes always) when loading a cache look to see if it has any TB's AND I ALWAYS read what the TB owner has posted about the TB. It also helps in notifying a TB owner if the cache states the TB is there, but is not... then you can notify the TO that "Sorry, your trackable unfortunately has been taken and/or not logged or stolen."

 

Second; i could care less about a TB having a trackable (as long as its description stated such) and would gladly move it along for the TO. For me it this adds a whole new experience to caching.

 

Now, i know there are times when you grab a TB and perhaps that day you do not come across another cache suitable for the TB and thus can not drop it and end up holding on to it for a bit. I can however see where a TB with a trackable ends back at your residence and one may feel uncomfortable about that. As for me, i do not care as long as the TO has stated this in his TB description.

 

For me, bottom line... Read Trackable Description Before Taking The Trackable From The Cache It Was Placed In. Oh yes, and stop holding on TB's, move them along ASAP.

 

Hugs to all who need one,

Have a better day than than one before,

Pay it forward with compassion and understanding.

🏼

  • Upvote 1
Posted

Oh for sure, if the TB is clear that it has an airtag, then at least you have the choice to pick it up or not. I'd likely pick it up but with the intent to drop it off the same day, not take it home; where if it didn't have an airtag I might do so.  IMO it's not so much the tag on principle, it's being informed of any potentially risky or iffy activity - that shows honesty and integrity on the owner's part. And that to me is just fine. 

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