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CITO - conflict with coordinates and geocacher


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Hi, I hosted CITO event. I have a problem with one geocacher who claims this event as visited. However I didnt see him, he is not in my logbook. 

Plans for the cito were to start together at the posted coordinates and collect rubbish together. Everything is written in my listing. I enclosed map of an area - route from point A to point B. Ending coordinates were posted also in listing as reference point. During the cito I made announcements about my position. 

The geocacher argues that he was as the meeting point and nobody was there. So he claims it as found.

I dont agree with this. What is your opinion? 

Edited by xSilence8x
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1.  The logbook is irrelevant.  Sigining a logbook can never be a requirement for attending an Event Cache or CITO Event Cache.

2.  Did you station someone to remain at the posted coordinates to greet late arrivers and direct them to an area needing cleanup?

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1 hour ago, xSilence8x said:

Plans for the cito were to start together at the posted coordinates and collect rubbish together.

I don't think I've ever attended a CITO event where everyone stayed together. Generally everyone picks up trash bags, splits up into small groups, and goes in different direction. At the end of the event, all the trash is piled up for a photo op, and to be collected (usually by the park or open space where we held the CITO event). Sometimes people leave early or arrive late, but that's fine too.

 

What would be the point of staying together. Is there really enough work for everyone along the proposed route?

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@Keystone

I remained at the posted coordinates for 15 minutes. Nobody stayed there till the end of event. According to https://www.geocaching.com/play/guidelines#cito there is nothing like the owner must stay there for 1 hour. 

I have CITO listing that says what is the route for cleaning, I have map there, I have Waypoint - end point there (in map, in gc.com in waypoints). I did regular announcements that I moved, where I was, etc. The geocacher claims nobody was there. 

 

So OK, no signing to logbook but how can I know somebody was really there? Should I next time write down their nicknames? 

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47 minutes ago, xSilence8x said:

I have CITO listing that says what is the route for cleaning

According to the guidelines, events don't have routes. They "[take] place at the posted coordinates." This has come up in the past when organizers wanted to hold an event that is a hike or a canoe trip or whatever. Anyone who shows up at the posted coordinates between the start and end times has attended the event. You can't require them to do the hike or paddle a canoe or whatever.

 

Most of the CITO events I've attended haven't had anyone stay at the posted coordinates either. But the organizer usually leaves a sign and any remaining trash bags there (and a log, if there is one) to accomodate latecomers.

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17 minutes ago, xSilence8x said:

@Keystone

I remained at the posted coordinates for 15 minutes. Nobody stayed there till the end of event. According to https://www.geocaching.com/play/guidelines#cito there is nothing like the owner must stay there for 1 hour. 

I have CITO listing that says what is the route for cleaning, I have map there, I have Waypoint - end point there (in map, in gc.com in waypoints). I did regular announcements that I moved, where I was, etc. The geocacher claims nobody was there. 

 

So OK, no signing to logbook but how can I know somebody was really there? Should I next time write down their nicknames? 

 

Some will say it's not a big deal and to just let it go. I'm not in agreement with that thinking. A good cache owner has a responsibility to be somewhat diligent in making sure stats associated with his or her caches are correct. Unfortunately, there's only so much a cache owner can do and the odds are against setting the record straight. One reason is because of GC dot com's stance of "signing the log isn't necessary to claim attended". I have never understood that. :unsure:

 

In your case, I can't think of one reason why a person would choose to not at least show his face for even a minute or two at the event. Not doing so is suspicious and I can see why you question the attended log. You can try but there's probably not much you can do about it. 

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You say you updated with your changing position. How is one who uses a gps to get those updates? 

 

I have showed up to an event where I was the only person there. The host had an issue and cancelled it mid-morning before the lunch-time gathering. I wasn't aware because no phone service in that area, and I was using a gps for caching that morning.

 

I never logged an Attended, as I didn't feel I should. I expect many others would log as being there, if they did actually visit the location.

 

 

 

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Your event has one set of coordinates. That's what goes into my old GPS. Some of the description text gets in there too. (My GPS is an old Magellan, so no modern features and limited extra info.)

 

As was posted above, an event is at one location, for the posted duration of time. Them's the guidelines. Yes, a CITO can be a wide work area, but the event is still officially at only one location for the posted duration. Of someone arrives at the location during the times, they are right to log Attended, and there is nothing you can do about it.

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Part of geocaching will always come down to personal integrity.

 

I understand all of your points. But do you have any proof that the cacher in question was not at the posted coordinates picking up trash on 28 February 2023,  between 16:30 and 17:30?

 

If not, then it may be simpler to just let this go.

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I've probably "attended" a couple dozen CITOs never logged because some EO or park officer "took charge..." asking for driver's licenses or similar, and/or a strong desire to micro-manage me donating my time.

The other 2/3rds is okay with not logging most regular events we've attended too...

I drove away from one once, threatened by the park manager who "commandeered" the event from the EO.

Wanted "further proof" of who that Harley rider was I guess. Maybe she thought we don't hike...

The finned Harry D. forum regular was there, used his cacher name for ID, and never got called on it.  :laughing:

Normally I'll walk the opposite side with bags I already had in the truck.  We CITO every day out, so picking up other's trash is the norm, sadly.

Those who show up late might head to me instead of that huge crowd of people walking around, chatting mostly, who don't seem to need the help...

If someone says they showed, I'd probably believe them.

 

 

Edited by cerberus1
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Was the geocacher at the posted coordinates between the times stated as start and end?  Then they attended.

 

I've mentioned this before, but there was a relatively local CITO that was a river cleanup paddle CITO where the posted coordinates were at the dock (because you have to post coordinates at a stable point, and a river doesn't count).  T5 CITO event.  A geocacher showed up, said hi, signed the log, and left.  There was a lot of back and forth between the CO deleting the log and the geocacher re-logging it.  People were getting mad at each other over it.  The next time the CO posted the meeting coordinates on an island in the river instead of the dock.

 

It's not worth everyone getting mad over a geocache. It's supposed to be a game or hobby and not a competition.

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7 hours ago, Mudfrog said:

One reason is because of GC dot com's stance of "signing the log isn't necessary to claim attended". I have never understood that.

 

I have thought that this is because It could reveal the identity of the participant. For the same reason, you don't need to take selfies that can identify you when you log virtual caches.

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1 hour ago, arisoft said:

I have thought that this is because It could reveal the identity of the participant.

 

The Help Centre says "Events are a great way to meet fellow geocachers, learn about geocaching, and get involved in the geocaching community." That would seem a bit one-sided if participants don't reveal their caching identity. Everyone might as well wear paper bags over their heads.

 

AnonymousEvent.jpg.78b68917fd247f3be05eb975f467a0c4.jpg

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