Geocache on the war in Ukraine (or any other ongoing conflict)

[+belzebot]

Hi, is there a general consensus by the reviewers or community or official advice on referencing the current conflict in Ukraine (or basically any ongoing military conflict) in cache listings? Based on the "No agenda" policy, picking a side is of course out of question, but what about generally remembering the victims (on any side, civilian and military), asking for peace or condemning the conflict and war effort. There are thousands of caches at WWI & WWII memorials, or at sites commemorating other historical events with political, military or religious background (sometimes still controversial), which are generally accepted. Is a cache dedicated to the victims of the current war OK or not? Does it depend on whether the particular location has any connection to the war?

 

Here's a machine translation of a listing of a cache recently published in my surroundings (named "Moment of silence") that triggered this question, as a specific example:

 

"A minute of silence is not just a symbolic gesture of respect. It is an opportunity for us to stop and realize that the lives of these people were not lost in vain. Their legacy and their memory will live further in our hearts and thinking. Their death invites us to continue the struggle for peace and justice.

In a minute of silence we worship their memory and express our families and friends. We are grateful for their sacrifice and we are aware that their death calls us to advocate for peace and justice in the world.

In the silence of today, let's stop to honor the memory of those who have fallen in conflict in Ukraine. These men and women, brothers and sisters, fathers and mothers, friends and neighbors were kidnapped for a conflict that is not their own. Their lives were lost in the struggle for freedom and security that is not their struggle."

 

Please let's focus just on the main question, whether commemorating victims of an ongoing conflict as the theme of a cache listing is OK or not. I don't want to induce a heated discussion about any conflict in general.

Thanks!

 

 

[geoawareUSA9]

7 hours ago, belzebot said:

Based on the "No agenda" policy, picking a side is of course out of question, but what about generally remembering the victims (on any side, civilian and military), asking for peace or condemning the conflict and war effort.

 

You don't have to pick a side to have an agenda. Factual historical listings are fine. It's when they ask people to think or say or do particular things that it goes off the rails.

 

Look to the agenda guidelines for "not okay" examples.

 

Edited February 25 by geoawareUSA9

[Keystone]

I am at ground zero to find a container and sign a log sheet.  The cache description should tell me about what to expect when I visit, and maybe help persuade me to add the cache to my itinerary.  (Examples: there's a nice view here to reward you for hiking up the hill; an historic event happened near ground zero and here are some facts about it.)

 

A cache description shouldn't tell me to have a moment of silence for a particular purpose.  That has nothing to do with finding a geocache or understanding the setting.  If I choose to have a moment of silence, say a prayer, think about what happened at the location, that's my choice.  Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't.

 

As a tip, "memorial" caches tend to fare better in the review process when they factually narrate the story of a particular individual or group, like "my grandfather is buried in this cemetery with a military headstone, let me tell you about his service" or "the cache is near an historic marker commemorating action taken by Easy Company of the 101st Airborne, 502nd, featured in the HBO miniseries 'Band of Brothers.'"

[+FroggyBearReviewer]

I take the warning into account, thank you for your notice.

Yes, to commemorate the victims of any war conflicts is all right in my opinion. Of course, we shouldn't include any ongoing conflict into the cache listing, however I overlooked this fact during the review proces.

I have disabled the cache and I am discussing with the owner about the correction.

[+JL_HSTRE]

23 hours ago, Keystone said:

As a tip, "memorial" caches tend to fare better in the review process when they factually narrate the story of a particular individual or group, like "my grandfather is buried in this cemetery with a military headstone, let me tell you about his service" or "the cache is near an historic marker commemorating action taken by Easy Company of the 101st Airborne, 502nd, featured in the HBO miniseries 'Band of Brothers.'"

 

Aside from avoiding agenda issues, these examples are also focused on the core of what geocaching is supposed to be about. Why am I, the CO, bringing you, the seeker, to this location?

 

[hsiale]

On 2/25/2023 at 8:25 AM, belzebot said:

asking for peace

Asking for peace in the context of an ongoing military conflict very often is picking a side (as usually there is one side of a war that would be happy to see the fighting to stop immediately as they stand to gain from this).

[+JaSaHram]

I think that most of the misunderstanding and rage in this particular case was caused when "Needs Archived" log was placed to get reviewer attention. For many this seems too strict or harsh request.  I believe discussion would be much more reasonable if "Needs Reviewer Attention" log was available.
Or maybe just discuss it in private with owner (or reviewer) before firing the "Needs Archived" gun.

Edited February 27 by JaSaHram

[+belzebot]

19 hours ago, JaSaHram said:

discuss it in private with owner (or reviewer)

 

The cause of the rage in this particular case is questionable (many various reasons and accusations were mentioned), but you are partly right. However I have to disagree with your suggestion. If a geocache is published and a geocacher believes it violates the rules, he cannot know, what is the reason behind this:

• Did the rules change in the meantime, am I wrong?
• Did the reviewer allow an exemption?
• Did the reviewer make a mistake? Did he overlook something?
• Did the owner change the listing after cache was published? Does the reviewer know about it? Did the owner violate listing rules intentionally? Did he do it after he was warned by the reviewer?

Is it your role to investigate into these reasons? And when the cache owner is not responsive (if he intentionally violated the rules), how much time are you going to invest into the communication and leave the controversial cache live its own life in the meantime? As a "normal" geocacher you have no authority nor right to persuade the owner about your interpretation of the rules...

"NA" logs (even with their controversial name) are the way to go, when you want to notify both the owner and the reviewer simultaneously, so they can work together to fix the issue....

[+hzoi]

On 2/27/2023 at 3:38 PM, JaSaHram said:

I think that most of the misunderstanding and rage in this particular case was caused when "Needs Archived" log was placed to get reviewer attention. For many this seems too strict or harsh request.  I believe discussion would be much more reasonable if "Needs Reviewer Attention" log was available.

 

"Needs Archived" is the old name for the "Needs Reviewer Attention" log. It has not yet changed over universally.

 

Regardless of the name, this log never automatically causes a cache to be archived; instead, it ensures that reviewers are notified that there is a problem with the cache.