Free GPS online database?

May 20, 2001

leries, observatories)

* and more...

Would there be much interest in that sort data that anyone could view, add or maybe even download in a program format for upload to a GPS unit. Also might be an option to download the data in something like an access db.

Would anyone be interested in helping to build such a database, and to manage it? I have no commercial intent behind this, just like the idea of freely available information for non-commercial use.

I haven't had much of a look around yet to see what is already available either.

Be interested to hear your feedback.

Cheers

RedIguana

May 20, 2001

quote:
Originally posted by rediguana:
Is anyone interested in creating a free gps database of NZ stuff? By stuff I mean things like...

* petrol stations

* supermarkets

* places with good views (rather subjective)

* places of interest (museums, galleries, observatories)

* and more...

It sounds like a good idea Rediguana.

If you find places of interest (maybe with good views), then you may submit them to geocaching.com as virtual caches (simply choose from the pull-down list of cache types). You don't need to place a stash there, but instead, simply describe your interesting location along with it's coords.

Cheers,

Donovan Govan.

May 25, 2001

Thats an interesting idea.

Any thoughts on how you would manage it?

Pat

May 26, 2001

The web side of it isn't a problem. I've developed database driven web sites before, so I could code up something pretty basic over a weekend.

The hard part, is coming up with a validation process for submitted locations. That is, someone gives us a name and location, how do we know that it is true?

I haven't really thought this through yet, but I imagine it could be done something like this ...

1/ A submits location, and it is marked as unvalidated.

2/ B at a later time, confirms the location, and the entry is marked as validated. B may be a trusted party c.f. a forum moderator.

Or we can have a select few that we trust and let them enter points directly and are automatically validated c.f. a forum moderator.

I'd much prefer to have anyone, well almost anyone, enter points, and have them revalidated by people we trust.

Be interested to hear anyones thoughts on how they think it could work. I'd need a few people to help bring it to fruition too

Cheers Gav

May 26, 2001

The web side of it isn't a problem. I've developed database driven web sites before, so I could code up something pretty basic over a weekend.

The hard part, is coming up with a validation process for submitted locations. That is, someone gives us a name and location, how do we know that it is true?

I haven't really thought this through yet, but I imagine it could be done something like this ...

1/ A submits location, and it is marked as unvalidated.

2/ B at a later time, confirms the location, and the entry is marked as validated. B may be a trusted party c.f. a forum moderator.

Or we can have a select few that we trust and let them enter points directly and are automatically validated c.f. a forum moderator.

I'd much prefer to have anyone, well almost anyone, enter points, and have them revalidated by people we trust.

Be interested to hear anyones thoughts on how they think it could work. I'd need a few people to help bring it to fruition too

Cheers Gav

May 27, 2001

Originally posted by rediguana:
The web side of it isn't a problem.

Well, in that case I reckon the best way would be for the initial post to show as unvalidated until checked by a second person. I dont think anyone would go to the trouble of posting incorrect data, would they?

May 27, 2001

quote:
I dont think anyone would go to the trouble of posting incorrect data, would they?

Well, its a risk that the web site may have to deal with. Given that anyone could theoretically submit the data, what is to stop someone sumitting incorrect locational data for a competitor(s).

It would only be picked up once a second reading came in, and then what if those to readings were significantly different. Which one do we keep, which one do we ditch, do we ditch them both?

I see this as being a key problem behind developing a free gps db. If we can sort this out, then the rest should be easy in theory.

Cheers Gav

May 27, 2001

quote:
I dont think anyone would go to the trouble of posting incorrect data, would they?

Well, its a risk that the web site may have to deal with. Given that anyone could theoretically submit the data, what is to stop someone sumitting incorrect locational data for a competitor(s).

It would only be picked up once a second reading came in, and then what if those to readings were significantly different. Which one do we keep, which one do we ditch, do we ditch them both?

I see this as being a key problem behind developing a free gps db. If we can sort this out, then the rest should be easy in theory.

Cheers Gav

May 27, 2001

Originally posted by rediguana:
Well, its a risk that the web site may have to deal with.

I guess the only way is to have eaqch entry eventually verified by a "trusted" person and until then for the entry to be tagged as unvalidated.

Apart from that, hey, lets do it.

The main issue I see is how to you categorise all the entries so that they can be selected from the database ie by region,city,suburb,type of location etc.

My GPS (Etrex) only holds 500 waypoints so I would need to be able to select the points I needed. ie if I was travelling from Auckland to Wellington I might want to know where all the petrol stations are between those ponts but if I was holidaying in Rotorua I may want to have all the scenic attractions listed, does that make sense?

Pat

May 27, 2001

Just to swerve off topic for a bit...

Well, Rediguana, you have been a busy little bee . I see that you found four more stashes over the weekend. You will have to start placing some of your own to give us others a chance to catch up . Never mind, I will be heading north next month, maybe then you will have more stashes to find .

Cheers,

Donovan Govan.

May 27, 2001

Just to swerve off topic for a bit...

Well, Rediguana, you have been a busy little bee . I see that you found four more stashes over the weekend. You will have to start placing some of your own to give us others a chance to catch up . Never mind, I will be heading north next month, maybe then you will have more stashes to find .

Cheers,

Donovan Govan.

May 28, 2001

quote:
Well, Rediguana, you have been a busy little bee

Hehe well someones got to do it. Had to get away for the flat for a day so had a fun tiki-tour!

I have got quite a few places lined up, the studying has been full on, but it is my intention to at least lay my first cache this weekend. Hopefully there will be a few more by the time you get up here

Cheers RedIguana

PS Does the Warehouse have reflecterised tape?

May 28, 2001

quote:
Well, Rediguana, you have been a busy little bee

Hehe well someones got to do it. Had to get away for the flat for a day so had a fun tiki-tour!

I have got quite a few places lined up, the studying has been full on, but it is my intention to at least lay my first cache this weekend. Hopefully there will be a few more by the time you get up here

Cheers RedIguana

PS Does the Warehouse have reflecterised tape?

May 28, 2001

quote:
I guess the only way is to have eaqch entry eventually verified by a "trusted" person and until then for the entry to be tagged as unvalidated.

Pat, I know exactly what you mean because thats the way I'm thinking to.

The other big issue I also see is expiring certain types of location. For example a service station may need to be revalidated every x time periods so that we know it is still there. When a trusted person validates a location, the site the last date visited is recorded, and a location is measured as fresh. We then display a little scale showing how fresh or stale the location is - based on when it was last verified. This is more for transitional human things rather than great views.

Classification is a bit easier. We would need to come up with a waypoint naming system and we could use that to say only bring out service stations, banks etc. After all I only want my banks and service stations (esp when travelling) and not every bank and service station.

Of course it should also be able to bring up all locations within x km of a given coordinate. A particular category on a route may be harder though.

Cheers RedIguana

May 28, 2001

quote:
Originally posted by rediguana:
I have got quite a few places lined up....hopefully there will be a few more by the time you get up here

Cool!

quote:
Originally posted by rediguana:
PS Does the Warehouse have reflecterised tape?

Nope, try Repco auto parts, they should have some (I need to get some more too ).

Oh yeah, you can get those snap lock plastic containers that I used on my Brown's stream stash (and the previous three) at the Warehouse. They are about $10 for the 4.5 L version (a good size for a stash ).

Cheers,

Donovan Govan.

May 28, 2001

quote:
Originally posted by rediguana:
I have got quite a few places lined up....hopefully there will be a few more by the time you get up here

Cool!

quote:
Originally posted by rediguana:
PS Does the Warehouse have reflecterised tape?

Nope, try Repco auto parts, they should have some (I need to get some more too ).

Oh yeah, you can get those snap lock plastic containers that I used on my Brown's stream stash (and the previous three) at the Warehouse. They are about $10 for the 4.5 L version (a good size for a stash ).

Cheers,

Donovan Govan.

May 28, 2001

And more he types...

Just got 8 locations stored in an access db and printing out to a web page. Was having a look on the net, and we should be able to do the distance calculations, although they are not basic math because its distance over the surface of a sphere. Might try that later.

Back to classifications...

I was thinking of a major and minor classification grouping. Major as in

* Service Station

* Bank

* Places of Interest

* Scenic View

etc

And sample minor classifications being

* Service Station - Shell

* Bank - BNZ

* Places of Interest - Museum

* Scenic View - Sign of the Kiwi

etc

These could then map over to a waypoint naming system. A waypoint is called AABBxx where

* AA is the major group code

* BB in the minor group code

* xx is a number

So, for a number of shell service stations, they could be (SS - service station, SHell)

SSSH1,SSSH2, ...

SSBP1,SSBP2, ... for BP

This way, all service stations will start with FU, rather than being something like BP1, MOB1, SHL1 etc. xx will allow for up to 1296 different locations so that should cover most chains within NZ.

Look forward to comments.

Cheers Gav

May 28, 2001

Donovan, whilst on the topic of tape... A thought I had the other day was trying to find a clear adhesive tape that will hold in water.

The labels seem to be coming off the caches because the rain is weakening the adhesive. I was thinking about placing some stronger, clear adhesive over the other labels in an attempt to keep them fast.

Cheers Gav

May 28, 2001

Donovan, whilst on the topic of tape... A thought I had the other day was trying to find a clear adhesive tape that will hold in water.

The labels seem to be coming off the caches because the rain is weakening the adhesive. I was thinking about placing some stronger, clear adhesive over the other labels in an attempt to keep them fast.

Cheers Gav

May 28, 2001

quote:
Originally posted by rediguana:
...A thought I had the other day was trying to find a clear adhesive tape that will hold in water....The labels seem to be coming off the caches because the rain is weakening the adhesive. I was thinking about placing some stronger, clear adhesive [film?] over the other labels in an attempt to keep them fast.

I haven't had any trouble with most of my stashes. I think the label on my Brown's Stream stash came off because it was made up of many short lengths of tape and then not pressed down properly (I was at the end of the roll and in a hurry).

The adheasive in reflectorised tape is absolutly waterproof, but it doesen't stick to some plastics very well. You simply have to ensure that you rub it down well with a rag so that it does stick well.

That said, I think a covering layer of clear tape (or film) would be a good idea , but it might not stick too well to some plastics either.

Cheers,

Donovan Govan.

May 28, 2001

quote:
Originally posted by rediguana:
...A thought I had the other day was trying to find a clear adhesive tape that will hold in water....The labels seem to be coming off the caches because the rain is weakening the adhesive. I was thinking about placing some stronger, clear adhesive [film?] over the other labels in an attempt to keep them fast.

I haven't had any trouble with most of my stashes. I think the label on my Brown's Stream stash came off because it was made up of many short lengths of tape and then not pressed down properly (I was at the end of the roll and in a hurry).

The adheasive in reflectorised tape is absolutly waterproof, but it doesen't stick to some plastics very well. You simply have to ensure that you rub it down well with a rag so that it does stick well.

That said, I think a covering layer of clear tape (or film) would be a good idea , but it might not stick too well to some plastics either.

Cheers,

Donovan Govan.

May 28, 2001

quote:
The adheasive in reflectorised tape is absolutly waterproof, but it doesen't stick to some plastics very well. You simply have to ensure that you rub it down well with a rag so that it does stick well.

Do you think that sandpapering and cleaning the plastic surface (just a little) would improve the stickability of the tape?

Cheers Gav

May 29, 2001

use that translucent red or amber tape that is used to repair car stop or indicator lenses (I used it to make my flags).

Cheers,

Donovan Govan.

[This message has been edited by Nemesis (edited 30 May 2001).]

May 30, 2001

quote:
Originally posted by Nemesis:
...sandpapering may even reduce the surface area that the adheasive sticks to...

.try prepearing the surface with meths or acetone

Well, I have been thinking about this and carried out a simple experiment to test some of my theories.

I sandpapered two sets of patches on the base of one of my new snap lock containers (using p80, p120, p280, p600, or p1200 wet and dry sandpaper).

Next, I allocated an untreated patch and cleaned another three with either meths, acetone, or shellite. I then cleaned half of the sanpapered patches with meths.

After this I firmly pressed equal sized strips of reflectorised tape onto all of the above patches (after the solvents had dried).

I then put the box in front of a fan heater for 30 min (at about 80 degrees C), The tape stayed there.

Next, I stuck the it in the freezer for another half hour (at about -25 decrees C), no effect on the tape.

After this, I placed the box (base down) in a sink of very hot water for another 30 min or so, this did not seem to disolve any of the adheasive.

Back in the freezer, then in front of the heater again (for 30 min each time).

Finally, after the box had cooled, I stuck on another two pieces of tape, one on a wetted serface, and another on the plain surface (heat may have affected the tape).

After this, I left it for 24 hours. I have just got around to pulling off the tape. I rated the stickiness for each type of patch from 1 to 3.

Cold only:

Dry 1.5

Wet 1.0

Heat cycled:

Plain surface:

Dry 1.5

Shellite 1.5

Acetone 1.5

Meths 1.5

With meths:

p80 2.5

p120 2.5

p280 2.5

p600 3.0

p1200 3.0

Dry surface:

p80 2.0

p120 2.5

p280 2.5

p600 2.5

p1200 3.0

From my results I conclude that reflectorised tape will stick to a wet surface, treating the surface with shellite, acetone, or meths has no noticable effect, sandpapering does increase stickiness (only slightly for coarse grit paper and more for fine paper), cleaning the sandpapered surface with meths increases the stickiness slightly (maybe it displaces more plastic crumbs than dry wiping alone), and heating does not increase stickiness (as I would have expected).

So, I would recommend scratching the surface of your box with very fine grit sandpaper and then wiping away the dust with meths (and waiting for it to dry). After sticking on the tape wait for about 24 hours (it sticks better with time (for the first few days anyway)).

I hope that these finding come in handy for all of you that regularly stick reflectorised tape to plastic boxes!

Cheers,

Donovan Govan.

[This message has been edited by Nemesis (edited 31 May 2001).]

May 30, 2001