[Feature request] separate icon for challenge cache status "found but not yet eligible to log a find"

[+fyntastic]

I was told to take this feature request "to the forums," so here I am. There doesn't seem to be any discussion on this topic yet (which amazes me, so you're welcome to prove me wrong).

 

Aside from the cache types, there are four icons on the map: a smiley face for "found" caches, a blue frownie face for "DNFs," a star for your own caches, and a jigsaw piece for "solved but not yet visited" caches.

 

I am missing another icon for challenge caches that I have visited, but where I do not yet fulfil the requirements set by the challenge.

 

I would like to make sure I don't visit these caches again accidently (yes, it does happen) and since some challenges take years (or quite possibly literally forever), I would like to mark those that I've already visited . However, the "found" icon, the smiley face, is not a valid option as I am not eligible to use that just yet.

 

Since I am not using the DNF icon at all, I will start using that icon for this purpose. However, I presume it will confuse owners. I don't see any other option, though, but it would be cool if there was an official icon for this cache status ("found but not yet eligible to log a find"). That would also enable us to search for these caches (in order to check if maybe eligibility has changed since signing the logbook).

 

What do you think about that?

Edited January 5, 2023 by fyntastic
grammar

[geoawareUSA9]

Do not use the DNF log for this. It is not what it is for, and you will negatively affect the cache's health score.

 

If it is that hard to remember, put them all on your ignore list, and they shouldn't show up on your map at all until you are ready to find them.

 

Or, draft a log, and the icon should become an exclamation mark (!l) on the app at least.

 

Finally, writing a personal note for the cache will not create a separate icon on the map, but it will show up on the cache page, as well as, I believe, bookmark lists.

Edited January 5, 2023 by geoawareUSA9

[+Max and 99]

1 hour ago, fyntastic said:

Since I am not using the DNF icon at all, I will start using that icon for this purpose. However, I presume it will confuse owners. I don't see any other option, though, but it would be cool if there was an official icon for this cache status ("found but not yet eligible to log a find"). That would also enable us to search for these caches (in order to check if maybe eligibility has changed since signing the logbook).

 

What do you think about that?

I think that's a terrible idea! As geoaware stated in the previous post, this will affect the CHS and not in the way it was intended.

[Moun10Bike]

One of Geocaching's API partners, Project-GC, has functionality that may help you: https://project-gc.com/Tools/Challenges?map

[Keystone]

You would benefit from the functionality already available at Project-GC.com.  Paying members of that partner website can see an extra tab on their statistics page, indicating both challenge caches completed and found, and also challenge caches where you've found the cache and signed the log, but don't yet qualify to log an online smiley.  Paying members of Project-GC can also see a map of all challenge caches as noted in Moun10Bike's post above, showing which challenges you've found and also which ones you qualify for (if they have a challenge checker).

[+thebruce0]

Above and beyond using Lists to sort Found-but-not-qualified, and Qualified-but-not-found listings, as a user of Cachly on iOS I have additional practices:

 

* If I qualify for a cache I haven't found, I update the coordinates to posted (my own record) and it appears as corrected coordinates on my map; a challenge with corrected coordinates will [almost] only ever be "ready to find" just like a solved puzzle. If it happens to be a challenge not at posted coordinates and I've already moved the pin to the Final location, it gets a little confusing but I add a personal note in that case saying if I'm not yet qualified.

 

* if I find a geocache I don't qualify for, I give it a highlight which reminds me I've already found it/signed in, and no need to return to find the cache later.  This is closest in line to what you were looking for I think - the ability to 'highlight' a cache. But, as mentioned, there is the Ignore option - combine that with having added it to a found-but-not-qualified List, and you're golden.

 

I occasionally go back to that list of mine to double check qualifications.  Sometimes I've signed into a challenge cache from a vacation years ago and forgot about it, now being qualified. Then I just log it as finally Found and qualified and reference the date I signed in.

 

Do not use the DNF log to mark your own found-but-not-qualified caches! 

Edited January 6, 2023 by thebruce0

[+Corfman Clan]

Just do what I do. Don't visit and sign the log on any challenge caches until you have met the challenge and can log a find. Personally, I think allowing people to find and sign the log before was a big mistake, but that's water under the bridge at this point.

[+barefootjeff]

43 minutes ago, Corfman Clan said:

Just do what I do. Don't visit and sign the log on any challenge caches until you have met the challenge and can log a find. Personally, I think allowing people to find and sign the log before was a big mistake, but that's water under the bridge at this point.

 

That might be fine if the physical caches are easy to get to, but that's not always the case. There's a challenge cache some 60km north of here that I've been working on meeting the qualification (40 finds of terrain 4 or higher, each with the Cliffs/Falling Rocks, Difficult Climb and Scenic View attributes) for several years. Currently I'm just over halfway there with 21 such finds. The cache itself is rated T4.5 and has all those attributes, with some exposed climbing between the nearest parking and GZ, so it's not one I'd like to attempt alone. If there's a group heading out there I'd like to tag along and sign the log, even if I haven't yet qualified, because I hope to eventually qualify even though by then I might be too old to make the journey to GZ.

 

In a similar vein, there's a trail of challenge caches I visited last year on a group trip out northwest of Sydney. Some I already qualified for, some I'll probably never qualify for, but there are a few where I'm reasonably close to qualifying and may get there in the coming months. It's a half day of driving to get there and back so it made sense to sign the logs while I was there rather than burn through half a tank of fuel each time I reach a qualification just to revisit caches I've already found.

 

We don't have many challenge caches around here so I don't get to pick and choose much. In my region there are eight: two of them mine, one I've completed and, of the other five, there are one or two I might have a hope of eventually qualifying for. Any other challenges I might be interested in are a long way from home and I'll take whatever opportunities I get when I'm nearby to sign the log, even if I haven't yet qualified.

[+fyntastic]

Those are good suggestions and I am using some of those already (lists, project gc). However, none of them help with the map. Except for the ignore list idea, but I'm not sure what side effects that may have for me, so I'll have to look into that first.

 

Also, the point of this post is to discuss the possible introduction of a separate icon for this matter, which I think is a good idea.

[+niraD]

48 minutes ago, fyntastic said:

Also, the point of this post is to discuss the possible introduction of a separate icon for this matter, which I think is a good idea.

If Groundspeak wasn't willing to create a new cache type for challenge caches (opting for an attribute instead), then I don't think they'll be willing to add a new log type (and associated map icon) for challenge caches. And given the increasing restrictions on allowable challenges, I think it's more likely that Groundspeak would eliminate challenges entirely (the way they eliminated eliminated other Additional Logging Requirements), rather than implement a new log type (and associated map icon) for them.

 

But I could be wrong.

[+fyntastic]

On 1/5/2023 at 8:21 PM, geoawareUSA9 said:

Do not use the DNF log for this. It is not what it is for, and you will negatively affect the cache's health score.

 

I disagree completely for several reasons. In my opinion, the cache health score doesn't exist. There are numerous caches (that I know of) that have collected a magnitude of DNFs over a longer period and no reviewer is stepping in to do anything about it. 2) Even if it did exist, I would be the only one using this log type for another purpose and among hundreds of other cachers that wouldn't affect anything. And if a lot of people started using it that way it would only show that there's really a need for a separate log type. 3) I truly believe that out of the current options it is the correct log type to use for this purpose. A note is just a message but when I visited a cache I either found it or I didn't. And since I am not allowed to log a "found" if I am not eligible as per the challenge requirements, then I did not find it. Even though I signed the logbook. And that's a DNF.

[geoawareUSA9]

21 hours ago, fyntastic said:

In my opinion, the cache health score doesn't exist.

 

In my opinion as a reviewer, it does most definitely exist. For example, your sole hide has a very high health score at the moment. But it would have a much lower score if people started logging DNF on it just so their map looked different.

 

21 hours ago, fyntastic said:

Even if it did exist, I would be the only one using this log type for another purpose and among hundreds of other cachers that wouldn't affect anything.

 

Except you've posted it here - so, you would not be the only one anymore. Others could be bitten by the same "good idea fairy" that first visited you.

 

21 hours ago, fyntastic said:

I truly believe that out of the current options it is the correct log type to use for this purpose.

 

You can believe what you want, but it doesn't make it correct.

 

Posting a DNF log affects more than you. You should use a DNF log appropriately, or not at all.

 

Two reviewers and a Groundspeak lackey have pointed out that posting DNF logs is not the preferred technique, and suggested you use tools built for tracking challenges, like project-gc.

 

Your suggestion for a new feature has been posted, and now this discussion has turned to your defense of a bad practice. So, this topic is now closed.

Edited January 10, 2023 by geoawareUSA9