Read This Thread If You Get Stuck

[+kunarion]

The Geocaching App pops up a window when a new user first taps on a cache icon on the map in preparation to go Geocaching. They may know absolutely nothing about Geocaching at that point. Now the first thing they see is “Sign the log”. That's good. Cool.

But they also see “Read the details if you get stuck...”

I suggest that particular wording must be removed or changed to what it actually means, without adding a lot of... details... to read.

 

 

I'm being serious.  No joke.  I seriously think that phrase must be fixed.

 

I've started a new thread because this line of posts was not on topic in the other thread. Refer to the original thread, to see that I'm not taking any replies out of context:

https://forums.geocaching.com/GC/index.php?/topic/382859-changing-dt-rating-of-your-geocache-after-publication-and-finders-logging-it/#comment-6043241

 

There was once a lot of confusing wording in The Official Geocaching App. It's much better today. Plus there are videos that explain things very nicely. Most new users just now installing the App who don't know anything about Geocaching can get up to speed almost immediately. And the caches they will first be offered are all “easy” ones, caches they'd be most likely to find without any caching experience.

 

However...

 

There is one strange phrase remaining in the App.

 

“Read the details if you get stuck...”

 

I posted the iOS screen shot (Android is similar) in case someone says that there are “steps” included. There are no steps. The phrase is self-contained and not truly open to interpretation. These are the first instructions (OK, I was also told that it is not “instructions”, so it's “ideas”, I guess, “suggestions”) presented to a new cacher with their new App upon preparing to hunt their first cache.

 

It suggests reading “the details if you get stuck”.

 

1. What details?

 

See the post in the other thread that says

 

Quote

It means that if you are stuck, consider these steps that you might not have yet.

 

2. What steps?

 

At least, create a link to “the steps”. If I were actually stuck and wanted to read “the steps”, the App needs to show me where the steps are.

 

Another reply said this:

 

Quote

[It is] completely different from saying DON'T read them UNLESS you are stuck.

 

 

But that's exactly what it is. It is not completely different.

It means:

"Read the details if you get stuck." (That's the exact text shown on the screen.)

Even, “don't read the details unless you get stuck.”

 

Say it another way, it means the same thing either way:

[If you get stuck] [read the details]

 

If: In the case of/when

 

It means what it means. Or how do you think the average reader interprets a suggestion to do something "if you get stuck"?

 

Sure, it won't prevent everyone from reading “the details” in advance, but you are absolutely confusing people about when to read them, at the worst possible moment to suggest that.

 

Maybe new cachers can find the presented beginner caches without such “details”. But what is the value of having that particular text there in the first screen of a Traditional Cache icon?  Do the App writers believe that the caches are the non-stuck type, that it's very rare for someone to get stuck?  Maybe the caches are in fact that easy.  In which case, why have that text?

 

Is it the interpretation of the App writers that “the details” are NOT the cache description itself? Because if it means that

yes, you read the cache description,

yes, you watch the videos

then the text “if you get stuck” must be removed. Because the users are learning how to cache, they aren't “stuck” yet.

 

If it means “read the cache description if you get stuck”, that's just plain bad advice.  Because all cachers, especially new cachers, need to read the cache description before they start navigating to the cache.  Especially that first one.

 

Case in point:

I have easy caches in a county park that has a required $300 yearly pass fee for admission of out of county visitors (and which always had fees when every cache was placed). If they click and go, they at best waste time going to that place without knowing in advance that they need a pass.

 

But even the simple fact that it's not a box on the ground (in the case of a hanging box) means that they get stuck and now they must read... details...

That's why I asked,
1. What details?

How do they know you mean to “yes” read the cache description for sure before you even start... but not “the details”...?

Or do you mean that they did read the details, and you're being super condescending, “read the details again, you forgot or ignored the information”.

 

Or do you mean that in fact, you don't expect they need to know anything specific (“details” by definition being specific) and are encouraged to just try finding it without "details", because these truly are that easy to find?

 

My suggestion that doesn't make that popup ever more wordy is:

Change the word “details” to “hint”.

 

Change one word and it all makes sense.  Because “Read the hint if you get stuck” is a perfectly ordinary and great Geocaching suggestion.

 

Edited November 5, 2022 by kunarion

[+ChriBli]

13 hours ago, kunarion said:

But that's exactly what it is. It is not completely different.

It means:

"Read the details if you get stuck." (That's the exact text shown on the screen.)

Even, “don't read the details unless you get stuck.”

I don't agree completely. "Read the details if and only if you get stuck" means the same thing as "don't read the details unless you get stuck". But "read the details if you get stuck" certainly implies that reading the details is secondary. "Read the description, then nagivate [...]" would inform a newbie that there is actually a description that should be read before navigating. If one does read the description, one probably also notices that there is a "hint" and doesn't have to be told to use that if and only if stuck. I do realize that there is a limit to the length of the text in the app.

[+kunarion]

1 hour ago, ChriBli said:

I don't agree completely. "Read the details if and only if you get stuck" means the same thing as "don't read the details unless you get stuck". But "read the details if you get stuck" certainly implies that reading the details is secondary. "Read the description, then nagivate [...]" would inform a newbie that there is actually a description that should be read before navigating. If one does read the description, one probably also notices that there is a "hint" and doesn't have to be told to use that if and only if stuck. I do realize that there is a limit to the length of the text in the app.

 

+1

 

Reading is definitely secondary in that popup box.  The text in the popup says, "Navigate to the Geocache location and look for the hidden container.  Read the details if you get stuck..."

If I was brand new and saw that text, I would head over to the cache first, because that's what it says.  I have not read any details, because that's the next thing to do, if I get stuck.  Whether or not it says "Unless", "If and only if", or "If", those are all conditional after you arrive at the cache site and you get stuck. 

 

I think it was added to inform people that there is a whole lot to understand about Geocaching.  Simply click and go, and that can work fine, but then it can become a habit, and that's a problem because it can also go badly, especially if you read it "if you get stuck" and not before.  We need something in that popup, maybe a suggestion to read specific things.  Not if you get stuck, but before you tap "Go".  There is truly no room to add any more words to that popup.  That's why this Thread is cool.  It opens the dialog (OK, it's been suggested before, many times).  

 

Edited November 5, 2022 by kunarion

[+barefootjeff]

I have a traditional (GC8RTKC) where reading the description beforehand is a really good idea if you don't want to end up bush-bashing your way across a gully through thick prickly vegetaion. The description says to leave the firetrail at the reference point I provided and, if you do that, it's an easy walk across rock shelves right to the cache.

 

 

Unfortunately a lot of searchers just follow the arrow without reading anything and end up in the gully, to the point where I'm almost considering archiving it.

[+barefootjeff]

The whole app design puts the description WAY down the list of priorities:

 

 

Navigate and Log have big green buttons and even the Hint is given more prominence than the Description.

 

Most new players these days exclusively use the app and have never visited the website, so by definition they've never actually looked at a cache page, all they see are the snippets presented in various places in the app. While the description is front and centre on the cache page, it languishes as almost an afterthought in the app.