Very, Very Sad

June 21, 2003

Hey everybody

A couple of things have happened recently and I just wanted to get this off my chest before I explode and hurt myself.

I just wanted to say that I love geocaching, it’s a great way to get out for a couple of hours and just enjoy the scenery around where I live, scenery that I would never see had I not started geocaching in the first place. So I want to get this out of the way right at the start I love Geocaching, I love the opportunities it gives me to bond with my little girl and I love the thrill of the hunt.

OK, then with that being said, I have to say that although I love geocaching, I am rapidly becoming disappointed with the people who do it. Not all the people, because I can’t name the ones who are good and which ones ruin it for everyone else, I am disappointed by the greedy, selfish and lazy ones who go out and trade or take from a cache with no regard for anyone else but themselves.

This week I just finished maintaining my first cache Purple Woods Cash and I have to wonder at the people who geocache. The cache had four things in it, A lottery Ticket, a Camera, a log book and a lucky elephant penny. The premise is simple, drop off a lottery ticket, pick up the ticket that’s there, scratch with the lucky penny and good luck, well, when I got there this week, the lucky penny is gone and no lottery ticket, just a log book and camera.

What the hell is wrong with people who know what is required for a cache and then just think that the rules somehow don’t apply to them and they just help themselves? What is a cache with a lottery ticket good for if there is not lottery ticket? Geez, they even took the lucky penny, what is going on in their heads? It’s this feeling of cacher entitlement that really gets me, why do you feel that the rules of the cache somehow don’t apply to you? That you can take and not give back, even if it is the only think in the cache? Well, obviously not because the lucky penny was still there if they took the ticket so I guess that was fair game too.

Do you not have any sense of fairness or pride? Do you not care about those that come after you? I guess I already have the answer…the answer is no, nobody matters but you.

I just wanted to let you all know, I am upset with your selfishness and your misplaced sense of entitlement but you will not stop me from doing the hobby I love, but this is probably good for you since that means you’ll be able to keep on with your ways of not giving a dadgum for anyone else but you.

What is the issue anyway? When we trade fair we all better the hobby because those who will come after us will have a good time also, nothing is more discouraging than a cacher who finds an empty cache, and it’s hardly a way to promote the hobby for newbies and keep it growing. When we do anything, we should always think of those who will come after us.

So for those of you who don’t care, pick up a new hobby like depleting fishing stocks in the St Lawrence or something and leave my hobby alone. You’re ruining it for everyone.

I always try to create fun and themed caches, so far I have been successful with my “A Cache so nice” and “Crazy D’s Car lot”, both caches are clearly described on the web page as to what is expected, but again the illiterate and ones who feel the rules do not apply to them strike again. Cases in Point…

1)Crazy D's Car Lot The page states New cars in the cache so make sure you leave new also, it’s a simple concept really, if you can’t trade, that’s ok, just sign the log and glad you came, well, some cachers simply will not be denied. By the time I ran my maintenance on the cache where were no cars left, bet there were some old sand box cars (crappy and grungy), a novel (and not even a novel about cars), a burnt out flashlight (flashlight?) and some other assorted items that I can only describe a crap. Yes, that’s right Crap! Crap, crap, crap, crap, crap. The plan was so simple that this cache should have been self-sustaining, but no, the cachers who did not care about those who come after ruined it. I restocked the cache, but I curse you who are lazy or so self absorbed that playing fair never enters you silly idiot brains.

2)A Cache So Nice. Another simple themed cache, Superheroes! Simple to trade! I didn’t even ask for new but no, cachers messed it up again. When I ran the maintenance on that cache, what was in it, lets see…a map glass, a couple of key chains and a blue haired troll, can anybody tell me how any of these items are superhero related? Now given, the comic books had to be tossed because of moisture that had leaked into the cache but there was still a ton of stuff left, which meant that what trading there was (and by looking at what was left there was not a lot of it going on) wasn’t even remotely superhero theme related. It’s just so senseless and I can’t for the life of me figure it out. If you can’t be bothered to be prepared for the cache then just sign the log, no hard feelings, but this is just selfish, plain and simple.

Well, that’s my tale of woe. People please! Please, please, please, please trade fair and please think of those who will come after you. It is just so disheartening to have to replenish depleted caches and it makes me feel like no one appreciates all the effort it takes to plan, deploy and take care of these things.

For those that play fair, you can disregard this message. I sort of feel better now.

Thanks

DirtRunner.

Your not first...But you could be next.

June 22, 2003

You have my sympathies and empathies.

A Michigan Geocacher

(Hey, Michigan's sort of Canadian, ain't it?) *duck* LOL

...Caching In on the Journey

{--Firefishe--}

---------------------------

The year is 2003.

The name is S.A. Brown.

BrowNAV (Brown Navigation)

---------------------------

June 22, 2003

Being a disappointed visitor to the Purple Woods Cache, I can confirm what dirtrunner is saying. I swung by to check it out last fall (with lottery ticket in hand) only to find no ticket, so after the inital temptation of scratching my own ticket, I left my ticket for the next visitor, took my picture (which turned out horribly...entirely the fault of the subject!).

As a well intentioned cacher, it is always disappointing to run across the situation dirtrunner is describing.

Bullzie

1.3k · June 22, 2003

Well said Dirtrunner and oh so true. I think that is why I have evolved into a TNLN scrooge. I've experienced the same as you when doing maintenance runs on my caches. My "favourites" are beer bottle caps and used golf-balls.

The trading of items was not among the reasons I started Geocaching anyway. Thankfully the reasons for which I did are still alive and well and the list of reasons for enjoying it for many more years to come is even longer.

Cheers, Olar

"You are only young once but you can stay immature forever"

June 22, 2003

I agree with all you have said. I made my last few caches TNLN just for those reasons.

The other part that gets me is you release a travel bug or geocoin with clear intentions stated on the page and they go all over the place and cachers hold on them for ever.

The worst is they just seem to get lost, I still have 2 coins but I am not sending them out so I have can stll remember what they looked like.

gm100guy

http://members.rogers.com/gm100guy/cachepage.htm

Ontario geocachers http://groups.msn.com/GeocachinginOntario/homepage

June 22, 2003

I know how you feel. Hope it doesn't put you off the sport.

Every hour spent geocaching is added to the end of your life

3.8k · June 22, 2003

Has anyone here tried a Members only cache? I haven't because my caches get little enough traffic as normal caches but I expect that visitors to a Members only cache would be more likely to stick with the theme of a cache.

PDOP's GPS Pages

June 22, 2003

DirtRunner - I am so sorry that you are on the receiving end of cachers gone bad. I totally understand your anger and disappointment. Hopefully, the honourable cachers out there hear the anguished cries of the downtrodden, and will leap to the rescue of those like you. I try to carry a bag of goodies with me to every cache. If I see that a cache has been a dumping ground, I do my best to improve it a little. While there are many cachers who say the sport isn't about the treasure, I feel that it is certainly nice to be rewarded. Especially if you have endured a long hike, or multi-stage calculations. It's also nice to have something in there for the youngsters to find. So come on cachers! If you see a cache is getting weighed down with less than worthy items, how about helping out. A new spin on cache in, trash out. Make it better than you found it.

Stay tuned though, I have just had two hides. I'm sure that when the inevitable happens to one of mine, you will hear me roar too.

Chin up DirtRunner. What goes around, comes around. Maybe the bad guy got a flat tire on the way home.

Step away from the tupperware!

June 22, 2003

quote:
Originally posted by PDOP's:
Has anyone here tried a Members only cache? I haven't because my caches get little enough traffic as normal caches but I expect that visitors to a Members only cache would be more likely to stick with the theme of a cache.

http://members.shaw.ca/pdops/

I thought about that but I just didn't want to exclude anybody from visiting any of my caches. I think that if I did turn my caches into member only they would be better maintained but they would probably only get 3-6 visits a year if that.

What's a guy to do?

DirtRunner

Your not first...But you could be next.

June 22, 2003

I know what your saying. We just did maintance on one of our caches The Bear Creek Cache and someone took the log book. Who would do that? yes it was one of the write in the rain ones but still why take the log book. now I don't get to read it and those that find the cache don't get too either. someone also took the laminated geocaching page WHY??? And yes lots of crap in the cache and it was origanally very well stocked.

on the other note I have a very well stocked caching bag that I make the trades with everything is new and in its packaging so some of us do think of those that come after us.

Goofy

Giggles, Goofy, Grumpy & (Graceful.....Not)

June 22, 2003

I know how ya feel, did some maintenance recently to find a document clip, golf ball(was initial content) and little silver bell with log book and pencil. Someone took the tupperware!!! Just the shopping bag the whole thing was wrapped up in, nothing much cool for the kids left.

Car37 & Shnde

1.2k · June 22, 2003

Hey D/R,

First of all, keep in mind that its only a hobby. [] In my caches I have also experienced what you've described but my thoughts are all you can do is lead by example and toss in some good stuff when necessary. As for your lottery cache I can see how this could happen as I've seeked and found caches without reading the cache report myself (blush); or perhaps grabbed a Travel Bug without knowing the mission (most recently!). Its not because I'm lazy, greedy or stupid, its because in my zeal to get out of the house and onto the trail I skipped some of the minor details [] I usually print of the cache report and run - and only pull it out if I'm stumped.

I've had a couple of caches completely ripped off so I know first hand about true idiots. []

Cheers!

Coupar-Angus

June 23, 2003

Sadly I think you expect too much. My first and only cache hidden is a themed cache with lapel pins. Since I frequent the Texas Geocaching boards I asked them first about my cache. The first thing they said was don't put too many rules because you'll be disappointed when they're borken. All I can say is don't make too many requirements. So far 5 people have hit up my cache. 4 people traded a pin for a pin and one person added a pin and took one of the non-pin items I put in there for those who didn't have any lapel pins. Make your cache flexible to ecompass all geoachers; smart, enthusiastic ones who love to play along and those others just padding their stats

The Department of Redundancy Department

June 23, 2003

I hear you but......I took my non-cachers along for a series of five caches, and at the fifth there was a travel bug. The new young cacher wanted to get involved and play along. He was allowed to take the travel bug and was instructed as to what he was to do. I am a geocaching fanatic since I discovered it and stressed what was supposed to happen with it. Being that the young one was a computer geek I thought I was safe. Well he has hung on to it for six months, and I finally managed to convince him with my son's help to start a new cache so that he could put it in just to make sure it got back in circulation. I tried to get a new cache-ing family involved by letting them take the bug and mis-judged how involved they would get. I feel guilty about how long the bug has been out of ciruculation but my intentions were good. Wonder how many times something like that has happened?

Semper Fidelus!

June 24, 2003

Too bad DR:

I thought for a minute when I started reading you were going to talk about people who said "let's go caching together" and then drop outta sight... pressures of work dude.

Sorry about purple woods and crazy d and so nice. Fine caches one and all... keep at it mate. See you soon I hope.

Decco

"Either that wallpaper goes or I do!"

June 24, 2003

I logged a coastal cache in southwestern Washington state earlier this year. In it, some thoughtful soul had seen fit to leave a visibly used Q-Tip. Charming.

You wouldn't need to dig too deep in the forums to find similar stories (...many worse) of cache 'trading' practices. As hard as it may be for most of us to imagine anyone with the wherewithal to GeoCache in the first place to - for lack of a better term - 'screw up' the effort that a fellow cacher puts into creating caches, such people are indeed out there.

Although it may be of little consolation at the time that you're confronted with a ravaged cache during one of your maintenance visits, sometimes it helps just to remember that things could always be worse. Without straying too far off topic, back in the late 70's I was on a military exercise in the Canadian arctic. It was the dead of winter, temps dipping to -70, and we were sleeping in 5 man tents with little more than small kero fueled heaters for warmth (it was, without any doubt, the coldest I had *ever* been in my life). When we got back home and developed the photos, there was one in particular of the tent that we had lived in (complete with snow-wall windbreak and a white featureless arctic horizon that seemed to stretch on forever in all directions). It was clear to anyone looking at the picture that it had been one cold and desolate place to have spent a week in a tent ...but that was *especially* obvious to someone who had actually *been* there. To make a long story just a little bit longer, I kept a small copy of that photo tacked to the wall near whatever desk I might have had occasion to use during my years in the army that followed. Whenever things may have become a little 'tense' or 'challenging', I would always glance at the photo and remember...

...things could always be worse.

June 24, 2003

Sorry to hear about your disappointment and I am sure that you are not alone. Perhaps to make some suggestions, try to make the cache more difficult, such as maybe atleast a km hike to the site and perhaps make it into a multi. I do find that caches that take more effort to find usualyl have better trade items in them. Whereas some of the easier ones are done by families with kids and well from experience I find the kids usually take the good stuff and don't necessarily leave something of equal value in exchange. Afterwall, would you disappoint a child by saying that they can not take something that they really want, even if what they are not trading is of the same value? Also I have noticed while doing maintenance visits on my own caches that sometimes people that have already visited a cache, they come back to take things if they find out something of interest is in it. Or perhaps it might have even been a non-cacher that discovered your cache.

Some things to consider:

1) It is not about the prize or what is in the cache, although I am sure some people only are in it for the cache contents, but they usually do not stick with the hobby for very long. The loyal cachers like myself are mostly in it for the adventure in finding the cache and could care less as to what is inside of it. It is not the contents that make a good cache, but the adventure and experience that you have in getting to it.

2)Many cachers do not read the printouts, and even I am guilty of not reading it at times, especially as I get more experience.

3)What maybe not be a fair trade to one person, might be more than fair to another.

4)Educate cachers more.

...I hope all this doesn't put too much of a damper on the hobby for you and I hope you continue enjoying it.

June 28, 2003

Hey DirtRunner- Know how I said that when the inevitable happens to me, you'd hear me roar? Well....GGGGGRRRRRRRRR!!! I have only placed two caches, and the second one has been stolen. I only placed it a week ago, and it only had one visitor. The darling youth in my area (jumping to conclusions, but I'm gonna say it's youth) not only stole it, but have spray painted the fence and wrote all over the picnic bench in black marker. Sometimes I wish I could be God for a day. I wouldn't be a very merciful God mind you.

So, I suppose it's my fault for not hiding it out in the middle of no mans land, but I wanted to make an easy location for kids and handicapped cachers.

What really burns me is that this one was placed in my Dad's honour, and says that right in the log book. Think the little bas*ards will have a change of heart and place it back?

Step away from the tupperware!

July 4, 2003

First I ahev to say I love the idea of a scratch swap cache, however I have to admit I wouldn't be a good user of a themed cashe cause part of the trill for me is finding a cache at night with only the co-ords in my gps. If posible I get someone else to enter them so I can't inadvertantly see the clues.

So to stop people like me from messing up your cache, add 2 or 3 non themed items including at least one "junk" item and clearly state in the cache the purpose of the theme. Finding that I would trade with the non-theme stuff as I personaly dislike tnln. I only have one cache and now that the raod is closed it sees far too few people. Including the "junk" alows someone who only has a trinket or isn't willing to swap one of his "good" items for the non-theme "good" item to trade. Kids are Kids mine is 11 and it's still a fight if something she realy wants is in the cache and to her dismay a new eminem cd will be finding it's way into a cache that has something dad wants ;o)

I still get a huge rush that with nothing more than a lat/long I can find something as small as an altiods tin on this great big planet of ours, And the little monkey in the yellow hat that lives inside me lives for that moment when I open that box. It would be sad if that box looked the same everytime it was opend.

Pat Patterson

Garmin 12XL

82CJ7 & 79F250

Herd of Turtles 4x4 club

July 30, 2003

Hey, I feel for you Dirtrunner, frustrating isn't it.

but it is like that in life, not just Geocaching.

The same when you are driving, there is always a few ignorant people, go to the beach, you will find them. Geez, you will find them in the workplace, someone always screws it up for others, they can't help it. They just think of themselves.

I hope you stick with it, if not for your enjoyment then for the other cachers who really enjoy caches like yours.

1.2k · July 31, 2003

Someone just ripped off my daughter's Geocache GC473E. That makes three I've lost out of 10 hidden. I think I'll re-hide this one in a different location - but I've starting to wonder if the conservation staff are onto us!

Very, Very Sad

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