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Ontario Parks Cache removed


gm100guy

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I am a bit surprised at this. I thought a policy was close and the status quo would be maintained until there was something official. The park superintendent who removed the cache was with us in February and said it seemed harmless. I can understand Allwalk's Emily Park cache being removed, because it was new, but Trippers' cache has been there a while.... I may e-mail the Parks contact on Monday to find out what is going on. I know that a lot of Parks staff had no idea what geocaching was or that it was happening in Ontario Parks. It looks like maybe a "Meet the Geocachers Day" in an Ontario Provincial Park is needed.

 

-Donna G

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For the life of me I can't figure out why you are so surprised. Bring something harmless and fun to the attention of the government and you can be sure they'll tax it or make it illegal.

 

There always seems to be someone that just wants to screw it up for the rest of us. And all we want to do is quietly enjoy our pasttime.

 

Instead of creating more red tape for the rest of us, why not JOIN US and get out there and do some Geocaching!

 

I'm sure Tripper is more than a little put off right now. I know I would be.

 

TT

 

TrimblesTrek

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Well,

I agree. Bring that to their attention( fun and free) and boom. They'll change it somehow. I say leave it as its always been. What they don't know won't hurt them.

 

Geocachers, on a whole, are good people who stick to the honor system. So, keep it the way it was before and be done with these bland-mongers.

 

-Jay-

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We on the Westcoast have a new problem to deal with.

Seeems the popular provincial parks are now charging $3-5, for day parking.

(Many thanks to previous GOV. body for over spending NO DOWN PAYMENT).

So I'm sure if they knew there were hides in their park our new GOV. would be making a bigger cash cow out of it.

After all BC means Bring Cash.....

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quote:
For the life of me I can't figure out why you are so surprised. Bring something harmless and fun to the attention of the government and you can be sure they'll tax it or make it illegal.

 

I would like to tell you to go back and read the history of this on the web sight on the bottom of my sig and you will see that we did not start this . We were hopping that being open honest we could better results and still have caches in parks.

 

Donna let us know what you can find out from inside.

 

gm100guy

http://members.rogers.com/gm100guy/cachepage.htm

Ontario geocachers http://groups.msn.com/GeocachinginOntario/homepage

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Yeah,

 

Sometimes being honest is worse then not totally being honest though. In this case they are simply aware now that these things exist. They are harmless because no one actually DIGS a hole, plants a cache and buries it. There is very little if any disturbance of the habitat around the cache.

 

I say tell them thanks, so long and continue the way cachers have for so long. Don't tell them anything, and our underground , harmless game can continue as it was.

 

Telling them gets us nothing in the end.

 

As for parking fees of $3-$5 dollars. I'm not upset about that. It seems fair and it will certainly make you get that cache a little slower, to enjoy the parks and trails a bit more. I don't mind supporting the local conservation areas. But when they start tampering with caches??!! That's jst not right.

 

-Jayloki-

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quote:
Originally posted by Jayloki:

"...I say tell them thanks, so long and continue the way cachers have for so long. Don't tell them anything, and our underground, harmless game can continue as it was. Telling them gets us nothing in the end..."


There's nothing 'underground' about GeoCache locations that are posted on the web for anyone to see. Were someone within Parks Canada or one of the Provincial Park or regional Conservation Area Authorities to take an 'interest' in knowing if any GeoCaches were being placed within their areas of responsibility (and if such persons don't already exist, it's only a matter of time before they do), they could easily do so by simply running an online search using GeoCaching.com ...just like you can.

 

I think that the best approach remains to be one of openess and education. To do otherwise could leave un/mis-informed park staff to err on the side of caution (ie: say 'No') when encountering an activity like GeoCaching that they don't fully understand ...and from the point of view of someone who's job it is to protect and preserve these areas, can you really blame them?

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I am sorry to see this happened, even though I was flamed for predicting this months ago. I am of two minds about what to do now. Leave it, as I said before, or maybe go after the idea with the powers that be that more revenue will come their way with geocachers in the parks.

Some parks in Florida know all about us and welcome us, even with sign-in books at the gate. Anyway, the genie is out of the bottle now. I lean towards the idea, that, hopefully it will fade away, IF we let it.

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Parc Mont St. Bruno on the East side of Montreal already has an account and regularly removes cache within the park. It is my understanding that if you seek permission and place the cache in a mutual agreeable spot they will allow a cache. I have seen 4 or 5 caches pulled by the rangers in this park.

As for the Ontario parks, to place a new cache, are we waiting for permission before new caches can be placed. I was looking at Voyageur Park, but will wait until things are worked out instead of having it pulled.

 

Car37 & Shnde

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Although I think it was nice that they told Tripper he could come and pick up his cache (instead of just tossing it like some other park managers), removing it 'because they are deciding on a policy' and that there is obviously 'NO policy at the moment' makes no sense. I think this particular group has already decided on what the policy should be.

 

I also find it mildly amusing that they log onto the free site, set up an account, and use the weekly notifications we get to see what new caches in their area they can shut down.

 

There are so many other things to focus on, so many other groups of people that do harm to the park. I feel they target caches because it is easy to do so. We probably cart out more trash than your average hiker yet they don't want us caching in the park.

 

Pretty soon we'll need to form a group so we can be heard with a larger voice. There are some parks you can hunt in but not geocache in (not that you'd want to do both, but look at what the NRA can do.)

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Maybe I am missing something, but isn't a really simple solution making the cache a multi-cache? One where the starting point is nowhere near the final destination. That way, someone would have to complete the cache in the first place to determine that it is in their park. Rather than doing a 'search and destroy' search on the website to find all of the caches that are new in the park.

 

Bullzie

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quote:
Originally posted by Bullzie:

Maybe I am missing something, but isn't a really simple solution making the cache a multi-cache? One where the starting point is nowhere near the final destination. That way, someone would have to complete the cache in the first place to determine that it is in their park

Bullzie


 

A solution? I don't know about that BUT it would be a great job for a Parks Ontario summer student. <grin>

I am sure the 'geocache within 500m' rule would just get expanded OR one of the park superintendents themselves would just take up geocaching.

 

Tripper

 

PS: We are still a little put off by this particular park superintendent's decision to remove our cache. Our kids planted it themselves and loved visiting it on a regular basis to check out the 'treasures' inside for possible trades. Sad. It is hard enough to pump the kids up for some exercise in the great outdoors during peak bug season. Arg!!

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Those nature narcs! icon_confused.gif

 

There are pros and cons to having Geocaches in parks and until something is formalized this kind of thing is going to happen. I'm of the mind that its easier to beg for forgiveness than ask for permission when placing caches on public trails and in parks. Doing a multi that ends up in the park is brilliant! icon_smile.gif

 

I would like to discuss this in greater detail at the next Geopub night! icon_biggrin.gif

 

Cheers!

Coupar-Angus

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icon_cool.gif I think Bullzie's multi idea is the best solution too! The parc narc will never know there is a cache within his confines, and the rest of us get to continue doing what we love to do. (Unless of course somebody passes this thread along to the forest rangers!! icon_eek.gif)

 

I TOTALLY agree with C-A on the pub night too! Who's the current holder of the Pub Mug Travel Bug? They're supposed to be organizing the next one.

 

TT

 

TrimblesTrek

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quote:
Originally posted by TrimblesTrek:

"...Unless of course somebody passes this thread along to the forest rangers!!..."


My guess is that there's no 'passing along' required. I'm sure that more than a few Parks' staff are quietly sitting on the sidelines and following this type of online forum discussion with some interest (...if you were one, wouldn't you?). But, when you stop to think about it, that should work in our favour ...that is, the more they learn about this activity - and the type of person who participates in it - the greater the odds that they'll realize that the threat(?) posed by GeoCaching to park land is much ado about nothing.

 

...or that's my theory at least. icon_wink.gif

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I have waited a week for an answer from the parks staff and heard nothing.

 

I sent the follow eamil to the Premier today and will let you if I get an answer.

 

Dear Sir,

 

I would like to bring to you attention what one of your parks staff have done in 1 of our parks, Please read the following link.

http://ubbx.Groundspeak.com/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=5726007311&f=3516058331&m=81860226

 

What really gets me upset is that over the last months we have been having a disscusion with your parks staff about Geocaching in Ontario parks and I thought we were having a positive outlook to address this problem. The following link is a history of our talks.

 

http://groups.msn.com/GeocachinginOntario/homepage

 

And also you can find information here.

 

http://ubbx.Groundspeak.com/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=5726007311&f=3516058331&m=4496005

 

I would like to look into this matter and help all of the users of our parks solve this problem once and for all and have our parks open to Geocachers in Ontario as I feel we are more of a tourist attraction to the parks then alot of other activities are.

 

Since I have been involed in this activity it has let me and my family explore and learn about more different places then I would have thought of in Ontario.

 

I look forward to your reponse.

 

gm100guy

http://members.rogers.com/gm100guy/cachepage.htm

Ontario geocachers http://groups.msn.com/GeocachinginOntario/homepage

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Bah. I say mention it no more. The Premier has more important things to do then delegate whether hiding tupperware in provincial parks is allowable or not. I mean really.

 

Hide the caches and tell no one. I'd be awfully ****ed being asked to leave a park because I was wearing a GPS around my neck. Ya know what I'm saying guys?? Just let it be.

 

Go on as we did. Sending up a flare doesn't help Geocaching anywhere. If they want to be educated they will find your web page just as I did. The can or worms is opened.

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quote:
Originally posted by Jayloki:

The can or worms is opened.


 

Ahh, and therein lies the problem. You can bet your bottom dollar that soon (if not now) Park Ontario staff will be checking this FREE site each and every day for new geocaches in their parks. Not to mention reading these discussion group posts for the inside scoop (hello there Parks Ontario summer student dude).

 

I have long been a supporter of the 'what they don't know won't hurt them' rule. But unfortunately that will not work for much longer. ARG!

 

And what's the solution? Dunno. I have yet to hear something that would work for both parties. But in the meantime, jumping the gun and pulling all the geocaches from the Ontario Parks seems a little bit hasty now doesn't it?

 

And once a 'solution' has been 'decided' upon you can bet another dollar that it will be adopted by other parks besides just Ontario Parks (i.e. national parks, municipal parks, conservation areas, ....). Welcome to the snowball effect.

 

Tripper & fam.

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And once a 'solution' has been 'decided' upon you can bet another dollar that it will be adopted by other parks besides just Ontario Parks (i.e. national parks, municipal parks, conservation areas, ....). Welcome to the snowball effect

 

Right on, man. Let's hope the well-meaning do-gooders stay away from those. Faint hope, right?

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Although not a perfect 'fix', in the event that it appears that our Parks' staff *are* going to frown on GeoCaches placed within their areas of responsibility, couldn't 'virtuals' be considered as a possible alternative...? Most of the parks that I've visited in Ontario (of all types) have some form of 'specific site of interest' that would meet the req'ments for a virtual cache (the petroglyphs at Lake Superior Provincial Park for example, or the old mill at Bruces Mill conservation area, just north of Toronto). With physical cache placement in U.S. National Parks having been a no-no for quite some time south of the border, does anyone know if TPTB approve virtuals within those same parks...?

 

Again, not an 'ideal' solution (certainly not as fun as physical caches), but an option that may allow the activity to take place 'above board' where it might otherwise be forbidden. As for the idea of placing physical caches regardless of obtaining Park permission, in the event that one or more of the park services come down with a formal policy against GeoCaching, I think that you'll see caches in those areas treated the same as those for U.S. National Parks ...that is, their placement (or continued use) will not be approved by TPTB - nor should they be, given those circumstances.

 

Mind you, this is all 'worse case'/'doom and gloom' postulation. The situation, once it gets clarified, may not be nearly as bleak as we might be thinking...

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A good point about the virtuals. Some don't like them, (I do) but at least it would be a partial solution, if worse comes to worse. I don't see how the authorities could ban them, anyway. Mine are based on info signs and, short of destroying their own signs, I don't see what they would do. They would be placed in the ridiculous position of forbidding people to read the signs they put up for people to read.

Hopefully, it won't come to that. I do think if we press the issue we force them more and more to take an official position. We've seen one bad example of that.

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quote:
Originally posted by Jayloki:

Bah. I say mention it no more. The Premier has more important things to do then delegate whether hiding tupperware in provincial parks is allowable or not. I mean really.


 

Exactly... The obvious concensus here is to drop the issue. Stop bringing undo attention. -sigh- There is no reason whatsoever to pester the premier about this.

 

This crusade should end here and now. There is no support for it. Try geocaching!

 

TT

 

TrimblesTrek

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icon_mad.gif ditto to trimbles trek! Why cant you leave this alone gm100? does it make you feel special? everyone has been telling you to leave it alone and you havnt!!!! I also understand that it was a geocacher who brought this all to the attention to the ontario parks staff!! DUMB!!! if you bring the government into this sport it will cost us all!!! just leave it alone, even when they dont respond you STILL bother. If anyone is going to ruin it for us it will be you. Just go geocaching and stop trying to play "geocaching ombudsman"

 

Who started all this crap in the first place?

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quote:
Originally posted by wicka:

"...ditto to trimbles trek! Why cant you leave this alone gm100? does it make you feel special? everyone has been telling you to leave it alone and you havnt!!!! I also understand that it was a geocacher who brought this all to the attention to the ontario parks staff!! DUMB!!! if you bring the government into this sport it will cost us all!!! just leave it alone, even when they dont respond you STILL bother. If anyone is going to ruin it for us it will be you. Just go geocaching and stop trying to play "geocaching ombudsman". Who started all this crap in the first place?..."


Although I'm sure 'gm100guy' can speak for himself (and no doubt he will)...

 

...cool your frick'n jets 'wicka'.

 

What was (and still is) being attempted is the *mature* and *responsible* approach to securing the long-term ability to place GeoCaches within Ontario's parks and conservation areas. We all know full well that if things were to continue on as they have, it would only be a matter of time before Park authorities adopt an official policy with regard to GeoCaching (with or without our bringing the activity to their attention). Once such a policy was made, it would be *extremely* difficult to get it changed if it went against us (since someone, somewhere, would have to admit that they made a mistake), so - rather than let such a policy be made in a knowledge vacuum - 'gm100guy' (and others) were making a pre-emptive effort to stack the deck in our favour. Had we at this point been in receipt of a letter from Parks Canada or the Ontario MNR informing us that they had adopted a Pro-GeoCaching policy, you would be applauding 'gm100guy' - not chastising him ...so check your attitude at the door, take a deep breath, and stop shooting from the hip.

 

The current situation over this recent removal incident has yet to be clarified, so lets wait and see how it plays out. It could very well become the catalyst for a formal policy, and that policy could just as easily be in our favour as against us. Either way, 'good show' on the part of 'gm100guy' (and others) for having taken the initiative with their attempt to get this issue as a whole addressed to *all* of our benefit. If things don't tumble in our favour, a No-GeoCaching policy would have inevitably happened anyway ...the authorities didn't need us to bring the activity to their attention for them to know that it was going on.

 

< icon_rolleyes.gif sheeesh>

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I still don't agree that a few people should take it upon themselves for the group. Where was the survey, where was the request for input BEFORE they assumed they had the wisdom to speak for us? And, by the way, wicka can express his opinion if he wishes to. Because he doesn't agree with you doesn't make him wrong.

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quote:
Originally posted by yorelken:

"...And, by the way, wicka can express his opinion if he wishes to. Because he doesn't agree with you doesn't make him wrong..."


Whenever I see a post that uses ' icon_mad.gif ', 'DUMB!!!', and 'crap' all in the space of little more than a paragraph, my guess is that it's probably time someone pulls in their reins just a bit. There's better ways of making your point.

 

It's exchanges like these that leave me to wonder what some folks would be like if you were to ever meet in person and try to engage them in a 'real' conversation. I would like to think that most people wouldn't come off nearly as blunt(rude?) in person as they sometimes do online ...especially if they ever find themselves in the position of having to deal face-to-face with Park staff.

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As an addendum to my previous post...

 

I thought that the tone of wicka's comments had a familiar ring to them, so I took a look at his earlier forum contributions. Sure enough, there it was. Although he edited out his original insults (an encouraging sign in itself I suppose), they were quoted in one of my own posts before he did.

 

Expressing an opinion is one thing, but try to use a little decorum and go easy on the disparaging remarks, huh...?

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quote:
Originally posted by wicka:

icon_mad.gif ditto to trimbles trek! Why cant you leave this alone gm100? does it make you feel special? everyone has been telling you to leave it alone and you havnt!!!! I also understand that it was a geocacher who brought this all to the attention to the ontario parks staff!! DUMB!!! if you bring the government into this sport it will cost us all!!! just leave it alone, even when they dont respond you STILL bother. If anyone is going to ruin it for us it will be you. Just go geocaching and stop trying to play "geocaching ombudsman"

 

Who started all this crap in the first place?


 

Please read this thread. It was posted by a Parks Ontario staff member. This is what started all this. Some Parks Ontario staff knew about geocaching and removed caches from parks long before gm100guy sent his letter to the Minister. Whitetail in Pres Qui'le Provincial Park was removed and I know one was removed in Lady Evelyn Smoothwater Park (it was placed on sacred native ground and filled with tacky "Indian" trinkets so I'm told). At least now Parks staff is being educated about what geocaching is and how it is not harmful, but beneficial to parks. I believe Parks staff have the right to know where caches are in the Park system because it is their mandate to protect fragile, vulnerable and endangered species and habitats. To this point they need to make sure someone isn't placing a cache in the middle of a fragile ecosystem. I am working with Parks Ontario because I was approached by them. So far it has been positive. I really feel we will get a solution that everyone can live with. If you don't feel Parks staff has a right to know what is going on in the Parks, and that you don't need permission, I will be over to place a cache in your flower bed sometime soon icon_wink.gif

 

Happy caching,

 

-Donna G

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cache canucks why dont you become a moderator here... cause you shure as heck injoy buggin the **** out of me!!! I am aloud to have my own opinion and i am not "yelling" @ gm100 guy or calling him names or being "rude" to him actually I have found him quite helpfull to me when i first started out, But I do feel he is prying and poking way to much AND once again that is my opinion BUT YOU seem to lash out at anyone on this server about anything you dont agree with and anyone can do a search im not going to point out YOUR MANY faults due to the fact that I wont have enough room in this post!

 

ANYWAY thanks donna for pointing out the simple facts and not ATTACKING me like cache canucks does oh so well and thanks yorelken ...well for being yorelken.... (missed ya @ a few caches by minutes) so with that said I expect "geocaching.com officer cache canucks to only **** me off further with his next post so i will end this with a have a nice day all! icon_smile.gificon_smile.gificon_smile.gificon_biggrin.gificon_biggrin.gificon_biggrin.gif is that better cache do ya feel better now that I put happy faces? .....................

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one last thing if anyone is interested please do a search on cache canucks posts and you will see that he injoys calling people names (bob u called a idiot) and other people have been prone to your attacks I on the other hand had one little "spat" with welch and YOU stuck your nose where it didnt belong AND welch and I expressed our anger then BOTH deleted our derogitive posts and went on..... AND that is the jist of it (dont know why I am explaining this but it has to be done. I welcome all to check my posts and see that all have been postive and/or helpfull .....BUT calling people a idiot and other name calling is a MUCH better way to express ones self right CACHE CANUCKS????????????????????????????

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quote:
Originally posted by wicka:

"...cache canucks why dont you become a moderator here... cause you shure as heck injoy buggin the **** out of me!!! I am aloud to have my own opinion and i am not "yelling" @ gm100 guy or calling him names or being "rude" to him..."


Well, for one thing, when you post in an online forum and type in CAPITAL LETTERS, you *are* considered to be 'yelling'. If you look back at your original post directed at gm100guy, you appeared to have 'yelled' at him twice. As for whether or not you were 'rude' by what you said (yelling notwithstanding), you chose your own words and they clearly speak for themselves ...I won't waste my breath here trying to teach you simple 'table manners'.

 

By the way, next time you ever actually find yourself in a bookstore(...?!), spend $10 on a pocket dictionary.

 

icon_rolleyes.gif

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quote:
Originally posted by wicka:

"...one last thing if anyone is interested please do a search on cache canucks posts and you will see that he injoys calling people names (bob u called a idiot)..."

 

"...calling people a idiot and other name calling is a MUCH better way to express ones self right CACHE CANUCKS?..."


 

Sorry wicka, I didn't mean to make you feel left out from the name-calling tirades which I "...injoy..." so much ...you're an 'idiot' too.

 

icon_smile.gif

 

[This message was edited by Cache Canucks on June 16, 2003 at 08:48 PM.]

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quote:
Cache Canucks wrote:

Sorry wicka, I didn't mean to make you feel left out from the name-calling tirades which I "...injoy..." so much ...you're an 'idiot' too.


Better be careful Cache Canucks -- you've just broken nearly all the 'rules' of acceptable forum conduct at geocaching.com...

 

You need to read this authorative post from Jeremy and change your childish mannerism -- my guess is that you'll be getting your first warning notice soon...

 

*****

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quote:
Originally posted by Jomarac5:

"...Better be careful Cache Canucks -- you've just broken nearly all the 'rules' of acceptable forum conduct at geocaching.com...

You need to read http://ubbx.Groundspeak.com/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=5726007311&f=4016058331&m=98860645&r=11060945#11060945 and change your childish mannerism -- my guess is that you'll be getting your first warning notice soon..."


I'm sure that TPTB would study everything in context (from the very beginning of this thread on down) before casting any judgement.

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Yes im sure they will study it and other posts that you have made cache canucks and im sure they will come to the same conclusion...I am owed an apology. Next thing calling me an idiot and picking at my spelling is outstanding behaviour for this site......you know last time you stuck your nose in one of my posts I didnt bother with reporting you but this is enough you will be reported and I encourage all who have had enough of the picking at ones grammar and punctuation and name calling...please notify Jeremy or one of the moderators here and put an end to the nonsense of cache canucks

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Sorry to everyone it offends, but I'm with gm100guy and Cache Canucks on this one. If nobody tries to stick up for the Geocaches in these parks the decision will be made by people who don't know enough. Also, if there is someone out there who can, please delete all the unrelated posts. Poor grammar and spelling bother me too. I take the time to proofread my posts, and I expect the same of the adults on this site.

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First off.

 

Guys stick to the topic at hand. Quit drifting and bickering amungst yourselves. To put it mildly, no one gives a frog's fat *** how anyone spells here. That's not the issue. The issue is do a very small few continue blowing their horns proclaiming caching glory to all who will embrace it?? Possibly exposing it big time in Ontario and ruining the game and subsequently "killing" geocaching or do we keep a lid on this cache and continue on as we always have, happy, caching, hiding caches no one taking caches etc etc?? icon_smile.gif

 

Second what exactly did opening this can of worms possibly "stick up" for geocachers everywhere??? Everything was fine and dandy until someone said "hey..I think I will show mom and dad where I smoke weed. Maybe they will accept that I do that if I show them what its like? Maybe they'll even come join me!"

 

Really. Let's just drop this "load" and keep on caching. Tell no one nothing (except the coordinates for us cachers icon_wink.gif ).

 

-Jayloki-

 

ps: No chemical or mind altering substances were used before, during or after this message was typed.

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Interesting thread... even more interesting are the participants stats (in order of appearance in this thread):

 

gm100guy: Found 25 caches

DonnaG: Found 36 caches

TrimblesTrek: Found 201 caches

Jayloki: Found 118 caches

Goldguru: Found 144 caches

Cache Canucks: Found 9 caches

Yorelken: Found 173 caches

Car37 & Shnde: Found 96 caches

Zartimus: Found 96 caches

Bullzie: Found 308 caches

Tripper: Found 251 caches

Coupar-Angus: Found 79 caches

Wicka: Found 9 caches

Jomarac5: Found 135 caches

Bystander: Found 0 caches (go figure... I'm a bystander)

 

The originator of this thread, gm100guy has a grand total of 25 finds since May 2001. Not a single find in over 7 months. Who elected him to speak for the rest of you? Surely a poor choice. And who comes to his rescue? Cache Canucks... with 9 finds. Not geocaching experts by any stretch of the imagination.

 

Take a look at gm100guy's other thread He'll claim he didn't start it of course, but judging from the third message of the thread, it's pretty obvious that gm100guy was the one that contacted jmp and prompted him to post! jmp after all, is obviously not a geocacher...

 

Anyway, those of you who think that the actions of a few zealots are going to mess up the fun for the rest of you are right on target. History has shown this to be true again and again.

 

From a bystanders point of view I think that the true geocachers should just get on with their hobby (it sounds wonderful). The rest should find a hobby in which they are actually interested in participating, and stop cluttering this geocaching forum with extraneous commentary.

 

Of course I expect to now be flamed by gm100guy, and Cache Canucks... maybe others. Let me get you started (along with my pre-written responses)...

 

- well yada yada yada, he's not a geocacher

* True... freely admitted. I'm a bystander. But, I submit that you aren't a geocacher either... not really.

 

- well yada yada yada... you're a dork for posting about something you know nothing about.

* Sticks and stones. This isn't rocket science! It's hunting tupperware in the woods for goodness sake. You should try it sometime.

 

So, potential flamers, go ahead a post if your personality forces you too. Otherwise, lighten up kids. This is a game.

 

Edit: Adjusted Jomarac5 finds... sorry.. was just a typo. You are of course an obviously active geocacher... no harm intended.

 

[This message was edited by Bystander on June 17, 2003 at 05:33 PM.]

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Hi All,

 

I see that some support what myself and others have been doing in regards to caches in parks. I did not want to be a spokes person but when I read the first thread that started this I thought that having just one lone govrnment employee posting was not official enough for me to listen to. So I wrote my letter to the minister. I think that posting cache counts and other stats is not a good way to judge one and I will ignore that.

 

Since I recieved my reply in January of this year myself and a few others have been in constant contact with the policy makers at MNR and have a positive progression about geocaching in parks. For all information it is against the law as it stands now to abandon anything in a park, so caches a illeagal in Onatrio Parks.

 

The thing that ****ed me off was I and some saw the discussion paper that was presented by parks staff and thought that the norm would have been followed until a new policy came out. Then the Ranger removed the cach that Doona took the parks staff to as a sample of a cache.

 

So I feel that we have been waiting six months for answer from Parks Staff and more caches would be placed so I wrote the Premier in hopes of getting the process sped up and a quicker solution for all concerned.

 

The last time I checked they all work for us and we can contact them anytime we want.

 

This is reponse to all and if you all want I well no longer proceed with this and when the s**t hits the fan and we can or cannot place caches in public parks at least I know that I tried my best for a solution.

 

gm100guy

http://members.rogers.com/gm100guy/cachepage.htm

Ontario geocachers http://groups.msn.com/GeocachinginOntario/homepage

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Gm100guy and DonnaG

 

Thanks for your efforts on this matter. The issue of cache placement in parks (provincial or federal) had to be dealt with at some point.

 

Anyone who has dealt with the government knows that things usually progress at a glacial pace. Keep at it and I hope the background noise doesn't discourage you.

 

PDOP's

 

PDOP's GPS Pages

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quote:
Bystander wrote:

The rest should find a hobby in which they are actually interested in participating, and stop cluttering this geocaching forum with extraneous commentary.


You mean like you yourself have done? And to make it worse, you hide behind the veil of a sock puppet. Next time you make a post, lose the fake identity before stepping up to the plate (and also get your facts straight before you do).

 

I must agree with one point from bystander however, that there are some who act like they have been elected spokesman for this activity -- i.e., Cache Canucks with 9 finds in a year, you really are a very active participant aren't you? You should know that just because you make more than 500 forum posts in that same year doesn't make you an expert on caching -- it makes you a bag of hot air -- and that makes you a good candidate for a government job. Sorry, but I'm getting tired of your holier-than-thou attitude in these forums whenever someone expresses an opinion that you don't agree with.

 

Regarding the parks problem. I think the best way is to avoid government involvement as long as possible. Perhaps there has been some involvement that was initiated by the Ontario parks people and that will need to be dealt with (thanks Gm100guy and DonnaG) but let's not initiate anything anywhere else. The government has a way of screwing up whatever they put their noses in. Please don't lead them to our province.

 

*****

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Wow, nothing like a thread getting the giant flush into the crapper.

 

I have to say after reading the pro's and con's of getting invloved with the government and this whole issue, is that is it really going to make a difference? Maybe it is just because it is the 'easy' position to take, but the governement is eventually going to catch wind of it (or would have sooner than later on their own) and do whatever they want. If no one had said anything, maybe it would have been delayed, but it would eventually become and issue.

 

Not being politically inclined, I do not really have faith in the concept of getting the government to change its mind on an issue once it has alreay been suggested. Will they eventually find a way to charge or tax us for placing a cache (a service charge for assessing the location sounds about right)...probably, but who knows when. Or what happens if they decide to privatize provincial parks at some point down the road (they seem to want to privatize everything else), then it will just be a hodge podge of standards.

 

I may just be rambling, but I think it is time to come back to the topic at hand. Mind you, I find it curious that the cache that was used as a sample cache for the MNR gets removed after such a long gap. That falls into the 'not cool' category. If it was deemed unsuitable, it should have happened when they were taken to it originally and not so long after. What has it been now, at least 6-8 months ago that that occured.

 

Just my fraction of a cent worth of thoughts...

 

Bullzie

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I agree with Bullzie... this thread should get back on track. It's funny how a few *bags of hot air* icon_smile.gif can affect an otherwise interesting topic. It's the folks who are actually active in geocaching that should be participating here!

 

If I ever got the inclination to hide a cache in a Provincial Park (unlikely, since I don't live near any and couldn't therefore maintain the cache adequately), I would most likely make it the final destination of a multi-cache (as Bullzie first suggested). The initial stage would likely be outside the park boundary.

 

The only problem I could foresee with this type of cache would be the fact that the final destination would probably require an entrance fee. And, again, I would likely opt out of this type of cache anyway, since there are still a ton of places to hide a cache that don't require an entry fee.

 

Another solution could be to use the parks for the *first* stages of a multi, and hide the final outside the park boundary, but nearby. This way, you could collect info from inside the park (lots of trail signs and stuff to get info from), use the info you gather at the first stages to get the coords for the final, which is outside the park.

 

Surely the park narcs couldn't complain about geocachers using their existing hiking trails and taking notes!

 

Like Bullzie, just my two cents worth..

 

Larry

 

TrimblesTrek

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