KimAndMollie Posted June 18, 2003 Share Posted June 18, 2003 Glad to hear they're alright! Lost and Found Real cachers don't smell like Fleecy. Quote Link to comment
+Solar Max Posted June 18, 2003 Share Posted June 18, 2003 Sometimes we take for granted the things that are most important in life. R, F, and M, Here's to you, and safe travels. How much intelligence does it take to sneak up on a piece of tupperware? [This message was edited by marinerBC on June 19, 2003 at 12:00 AM.] Quote Link to comment
+Fish Posted June 18, 2003 Share Posted June 18, 2003 Here is the whole artical... High tech no help for hikers By Paul Rudan Three Victoria hikers equipped with high-tech navigation equipment still managed to get lost in the dense woods of Strathcona Park. The three men were found safe and sound Monday, three days after they had set out on a modern, technology-enhanced scavenger hunt known as geocaching. “They were well-prepared with tarps for shelter and GPS receivers and laptop computers with navigational software, but unfortunately they had the wrong information from the beginning,” said Dan McManus, information officer for Campbell River Search and Rescue. The three men, ages 37, 61 and 63, along with other hikers began their geocache site hunt on Friday starting from the trailhead at the Boliden Mine site. The hunt involves someone hiding items in the woods and then the participants download pre-determined locations in order to find the hidden items. The geocachers use global positioning satellite (GPS) receivers and laptops in order to find the hidden items. However, according to McManus, these three men didn’t realize they had downloaded incorrect coordinates from the geocache website. “The men hiked for several hours before they realized it wasn’t what they expected,” McManus said. “The terrain was very rough and the tree cover was dense. They became delayed to the point where they were 24 hours overdue and scrambled around in the bush trying to find a route out. The men became exhausted and decided to wait at a lake they came across.” When the men failed to return, Campbell River RCMP along with volunteer members of Search and Rescue began looking for the trio Sunday morning. Members of Comox Valley Search and Rescue along with a RCMP helicopter were also used to look for the men. Some searchers hiked up to ridges where the could look and listen for the missing men while another team set out on their last known route. “The area of the park the men became lost in is notorious for delaying and misleading even the most experienced hikers,” said McManus. While descending a ridgeline, a search and rescue crew spotted the men and made contact with them around noon Monday and removed them by helicopter. “Aside from bruises and very blistered feet, the men were okay,” McManus said. He added that hikers should be well-prepared when they head into the wilderness. McManus said it is important to know the difference between a trail and a route. Trails are defined and well-marked, and are suitable for novice hikers. Routes, on the other hand, are not marked and should only be used by experienced back country hikers who have extensive navigational experience. “Be careful not to acquire a reliance on electronic navigation aids,” McManus cautioned. “GPS’s and navigation software can be useful tools but when the batteries die or they get wet, it’s back to the old map, compass and basic navigation skills.” Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati Quote Link to comment
+ZoomZoom Posted June 18, 2003 Share Posted June 18, 2003 Glad to hear you're all alive. "Every cache has it's rightful place." Quote Link to comment
+canadazuuk Posted June 18, 2003 Share Posted June 18, 2003 Satellite phones should be the next prize. How did one team get lost and the other not? canadazuuk Quote Link to comment
KimAndMollie Posted June 18, 2003 Author Share Posted June 18, 2003 I'll leave it for the people involved to tell the story (or not). Just happy that all is well. Real cachers don't smell like Fleecy. Quote Link to comment
+jrav Posted June 18, 2003 Share Posted June 18, 2003 quote:High tech no help for hikers By Paul Rudan Three Victoria hikers equipped with high-tech navigation equipment still managed to get lost in the dense woods of Strathcona Park. No, they were not lost. They knew exactly where they were, and where they were headed. They had however, not anticipated the time it would take to traverse the terrain, given continuous rain and snowpack. quote:The three men were found safe and sound Monday, three days after they had set out on a modern, technology-enhanced scavenger hunt known as geocaching. “They were well-prepared with tarps for shelter and GPS receivers and laptop computers with navigational software, but unfortunately they had the wrong information from the beginning,” said Dan McManus, information officer for Campbell River Search and Rescue. Yes, they had tarps, GPS receivers and computers, but also had paper maps and compasses. The “wrong information from the beginning” refers to an incorrectly projected waypoint. quote:“The men hiked for several hours before they realized it wasn’t what they expected,” McManus said. “The terrain was very rough and the tree cover was dense. They became delayed to the point where they were 24 hours overdue and scrambled around in the bush trying to find a route out. The men became exhausted and decided to wait at a lake they came across.” The fact that they were 24 hours overdue from their expected return time is correct, but the remainder is not. They did not “scramble around in the bush trying to find a route out”. The lake they were stopped at is a campsite - they were camping. This article contains much erroneous information, also neglected to mention many facts that are both interesting, and truthful. The three men have over a 100 years of combined backcountry experience. One has served as a Search and Rescue technician. One has had extensive training in wilderness survival. One has extensive training in map reading and navigation. All had enough food for 4 more days. They were never in any danger, and were never off their intended route, or lost. They knew they were over 24 hours overdue, and every good backpacker knows they should have someone responsible aware of their plans and intended return date. As expected, the RCMP was contacted once this time period had passed. As expected, the SAR helicopter could be heard dropping off ground crew. So they prepared for the “rescue” by arranging the tarps to reflect light, placing pine boughs in a large arrow on a snow covered hillside, and stood by with flairs at the ready for when the helicopter was within sighting range. There is no doubt that the drastic change in weather and unexpected soft snowpack impeded their progress, causing them to fall behind schedule. However, their preplanning with food, shelter, emergency equipment and numerous packets of fresh batteries, ensured that this was far from a life threatening experience. This article does not reflect the experience. Quote Link to comment
+canadazuuk Posted June 18, 2003 Share Posted June 18, 2003 I am very glad for these three hardy fellows making it out okay. Caching on the island has gone to a new level yet again... I know that some of the other cachers involved in the hunt would have been the first to help had they still been in the vicinity and knew of the predicament. No doubt the newspaper embellished the incorrect parts. How could three guys with all maps and compasses and GPS and PC really be 'lost', ie: not knowing where they were. I'm sure they did. This makes my hike with Dagg from the Sooke Hills seem rather dull. canadazuuk Quote Link to comment
Curious George Posted June 18, 2003 Share Posted June 18, 2003 Once again the media sensationalizes a story without researching the facts. The most important thing is that all three of them made it out ok. These are three of the most experienced people that I know and I would go out into the backcountry or put my life in their hands at any time. Hope you all recover and are back out there again soon. I love the smell of Lock 'n Locks in the morning...they smell like $$$ Quote Link to comment
KimAndMollie Posted June 18, 2003 Author Share Posted June 18, 2003 quote: There is no doubt that the drastic change in weather and unexpected soft snowpack impeded their progress, causing them to fall behind schedule. However, their preplanning with food, shelter, emergency equipment and numerous packets of fresh batteries, ensured that this was far from a life threatening experience. This article does not reflect the experience. I had no doubts that you guys would not have undertaken this without having the experience that you do. Ahhhhhhhhh..........the media-gotta love 'em! You can only be prepared for so many things, though. Somewhere human nature comes into play, and you can't predict how people are going to behave. Not having been included, or even considered for this particular venture, I can only imagine the stories you guys must have to tell. Although I likely couldn't have participated anyway, it's nice to at least be considered. It's like finding out that you were the only kid in the class who didn't get an invitation to the cool kid's party. That's OK-I'm used to it Real cachers don't smell like Fleecy. Quote Link to comment
+ZoomZoom Posted June 18, 2003 Share Posted June 18, 2003 WARNING! Stay Home With Your Mother. "Every cache has it's rightful place." Quote Link to comment
+canadazuuk Posted June 18, 2003 Share Posted June 18, 2003 quote:Originally posted by ZoomZoom:WARNING! Stay Home With Your Mother. "Every cache has it's rightful place." So how have you two guys made out thus far? Quote Link to comment
+res2100 Posted June 18, 2003 Share Posted June 18, 2003 It's fortunate that the 3 men are all ok, and there doesn't seem like any doubt that they were in any real danger. I am curious which cache they were after. Some things that don't make sense, if they were not lost or in any danger, why did they need rescuing or even position their tarps to be reflective and make the arrow? Did they just want a quick way home because it was taking them longer than expected? It does sound like they did WANT/NEED to be rescued though. Very interesting story, and it just shows that something like this can even happen to the best of us. http://ca.geocities.com/geocachingcanada <---NEW! http://ca.geocities.com/rsab2100/pond.html Quote Link to comment
+Solar Max Posted June 18, 2003 Share Posted June 18, 2003 The media's need to "sensationalize" a news story is a direct result of overzealous, reporters, editors, and even Media Moguls, who make everything a "crisis". Witness SARS, for example. One of my M.D. clients this week pointed out that 33 people have died of SARS in Canada (which is likely a mutated strain of influenza) while each spring and early summer, some 3000 on average, die of regular influenza. The media ignores this fact, in order to sell newspapers, and have people watch at 6 PM. I have noted that the media not only do not CARE to get the facts, if they are forced into the truth, will embellish, change, twist, or otherwise distort, any factual occurence. 3 Men did the logical thing, and assured their own well being. If that is sensational, then so be it. I call it being smart. Cheers, guys. Another example: If 34 percent of accidents are caused by drunk drivers, then 66 percent are caused by sober people. Maybe we should get the sober people off the road instead. This has been my editorial of the week, sensationalized for the geocaching community only. This Public Service Message was brought to you by our sponsor..or maybe just Team 3. How much intelligence does it take to sneak up on a piece of tupperware? Quote Link to comment
+canadazuuk Posted June 19, 2003 Share Posted June 19, 2003 I just wish that a satellite phone rental would become one of the prizes somewhere along the way, or a mandatory piece of equipment before anyone does these caches in the future... the airtime is not that unreasonable considering the $$$$.$$ at stake. No fault of the cache hiders. Everybody going after these caches knows full well what they are getting into. The warnings are lengthy and detailed. I wish I had been there. Perhaps two could have stayed, 2 could have hiked out? canadazuuk Quote Link to comment
cachewidow Posted June 19, 2003 Share Posted June 19, 2003 As has been said, if three men with all that experience can have a bad hike, then anyone can. Everyone on the wet coast has a personal story or knows of someone who met with tragic circumstances whilst in the woods, I am glad this one came out with just a little embarrassment and no lasting effects. For my personal opinion, I think the report was more accurate than some would let on. It's not difficult to meet demands; just turn around and there they are. Quote Link to comment
+Dagg Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 We will send you a CD Zuuk. Its been a BLAST! Dagg Quote Link to comment
+seneca Posted June 23, 2003 Share Posted June 23, 2003 quote:Originally posted by marinerBC:I have noted that the media not only do not CARE to get the facts, if they are forced into the truth, will embellish, change, twist, or otherwise distort, any factual occurence. Don't just blame the media. Have you read these forums lately? I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me. Quote Link to comment
+MercRocks Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Members of Comox Valley Search and Rescue along with a RCMP helicopter were also used to look for the men.......... I hope that the supposed $ 5000.00 they were going after will now be donated to the Comox Valley Search and Rescue Society????? The R.C.M.P. supplied the helicopter at about $ 1500.00 an hour ie: Taxpayers.....Search and Rescue Society's are manned and equippped all by VOLUNTEERS who risk thier lives every time they respond, give up family commitments, miss work etc.. I think that a BIG donation is the least they could do... Without your brain, a map is a piece of coloured paper, a compass is a glorified magnet, and a GPS is a waterproof battery case." " Foothills SAR " Quote Link to comment
+GroundClutter Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 The people volunteered to "search" and "rescue". Isn't that what they went out to do? When they sign up (as I have previously done), they know they are going to be required to go out at a moments notice, miss the picnic, or miss a day of work. In this case, their job was made a lot easier due to the planning and preparedness of the rescued. Seems a lot better that getting called out to rescue boneheads who, for example, deliberately ski out of bounds. Of course, anybody to willingly gives of their time to help others should be appreciated. But let's do without the guilt trip. They know what they are signing up for. Maybe everyone who geocaches should make an advance donation just in case services are ever needed. Step away from the tupperware! Quote Link to comment
Curious George Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Well said GC. The people involved were more than prepared when they went into the bush. Although I was not there my understanding is that there were some injuries involved (thankfully nothing major) which is why they set up camp and stayed where they were. The only lesson here is they did everything exactly by the book. They were more than prepared going in, they let someone know where they were going, and when something happened they did what they were supposed to do. As GC said - if they were skiing out of bounds or went into the bush unprepared this would be a different story. Let's stop beating a dead horse and move on. I love the smell of Lock 'n Locks in the morning...they smell like $$$ Quote Link to comment
+Loonie Easter Bunnies Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Curious George: If you truly want to "stop beating a dead horse and move on" I don't think the best way to do that is by suggesting others be silent as soon as you've finished having your say! [This message was edited by Loonie Easter Bunnies on June 25, 2003 at 12:10 PM.] Quote Link to comment
Curious George Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Hi LEB - I didn't mean to imply that I was entitled to the last word on this issue. I just feel like the people who were involved in this incident have taken more than enough bashing in the various threads. If we want to continue the discussion let's focus on the positives. They were more than prepared, they did the right thing, they got out ok. I love the smell of Lock 'n Locks in the morning...they smell like $$$ Quote Link to comment
+Loonie Easter Bunnies Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Why is it that - not in this forum topic but in the newspaper article and a couple of other forum topics - different writers kept saying the three rescued men were geocaching? From what I can gather (no personal knowledge but only from reading the forum) they weren't even after a geocache, but rather a private treasure hunt. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but surely a geocache is an INTERNET treasure hunt. (Subsequent edit to clarify: I didn't mean to imply this topic doesn't belong here or isn't of interest on this forum; in fact I think it's appropriate and very much of interest.) Now I'm curious whether anyone has ever needed to be rescued by Search and Rescue while actually geocaching ?? [This message was edited by Loonie Easter Bunnies on June 26, 2003 at 10:35 AM.] Quote Link to comment
+ZoomZoom Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Good Grief! Next thing you know we'll be easter egg hunting. "Every cache has it's rightful place." Quote Link to comment
+GroundClutter Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Cool...if that means chocolate, count me in! Step away from the tupperware! Quote Link to comment
+canadazuuk Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 If lock & locks didn't smell like $$$$.$$, we wouldn't have anything to talk about in the morning. This event was geocaching; I'm not sure that narrowly defining the activity resolves any issue. Does it actually make any difference whether or not it's called geocaching? (Other than it doesn't warrant being included here if it isn't about geocaching?) Quote Link to comment
KimAndMollie Posted June 26, 2003 Author Share Posted June 26, 2003 It's not so much an Internet treasure hunt as a GPS treasure hunt. Consider this hair split and case closed. Next topic of discussion....... If a Lock/Lock hides in the forest, and no one's around to find it, is it still a geocache? Real cachers don't smell like Fleecy. Quote Link to comment
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