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Team KFWB GPS, and old time geocaching

Solar Max
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Hey! Hey! Hey! Rubber Ducky and Running from caches it’s me GeoChamp! I would just like to say that I’m new to the “GAME” of caching and unfortunately do to my busy work schedule I haven’t been able to do as many caches as I would like to. However, I have been following the “TEAM” caches that have been taking place on both the island and mainland and personally think that they are great from all accounts. I think that anyone who has taken the time and continues to take the time to set up adventures like this at no charge to anyone should be fully commended. I personally take my hat off to the “TEAM” for all their hard work and effort keep up the good work. Mariner and Cacherunner I think its time you stop taking the “GAME” so seriously, from everything that I’ve read I don’t recall the “TEAM” ever asking for one penny and or anyone to equal any of their caches or items in their caches. I cannot believe someone making such a silly statement like there will be no room left to put caches out if they keep putting them out at this rate. Give me a break, why don’t you put some effort into getting a little more creative instead of whining. Also, if you took the time to meet more of the local players and go do some of these caches with them you may have had a new GPS before Santa came seeing that the “TEAM” has only given away about a dozen of them. It’s amazing to me that a hand full of sour grapes can take something fun and educational and turn it into another form of bureaucracy full of do’s and don’ts. Maybe we should all start our own web pages and threads to express our feelings and emotions, getting the likes of Dr.Phil involved just so we can really screw things up. My advice to the sour grapes and whiners is I think it’s time you start having fun with the geocaching“GAME” being that’s all it is. Oh, and buy the way this is my opinion and I’m entitled to it. Ever since I’ve been the GeoChamp!!!


PS. I think this thread should be archived not anyone’s caches.

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Cachers who are new to caching, and some who don't even own a GPS have been tackling the largest of THE TEAM's caches, and I am on record more than 14-15 times as saying there should be 'MORE' people doing these caches.


I have extended invites to folks to join up or tag along on some upcoming adventures, and I hope some folks will come along.


I think caching is in it's NORMAL 'off season', both for hiding and finding. There is not very much activity in Vancouver (hiding), and there would certainly be a welcoming party for anyone willing to plant MORE caches in the GVRD.


I have been accosted on a cache page for supposedely being whiny and emitting sour grapes complaints, and you know, that's just part of the GAME. What went around, came around, and round and round...


Peoples perceptions of these caches have illicited some cut throat attitudes and pain on a few occasions, but it's all worked it's way out.


Whether or not anyone will be geocaching in 5 years for tupperware containers ANYWHERE is totally unknown. Perhaps there is a point of saturation, but I think BC needs 2000-3000 caches before we'd even be close to that!


Is it about the money? Is it about the experience? The chase? The social interaction? What makes this thing work?


I think there is some validity in the idea that caches be archived from time to time, but not for the reasons noted. It's winter for crying out loud, and people aren't going after caches in droves like they do in the spring/summer. THE TEAM has added some excitement to WINTER caching, and it's not for everybody.


That's life.


Free enterprise.


Participate in the way you feel led.



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I don't follow all that was said between Mariner and Yellowcode, but I think you should NOT archive your caches. Here are some reasons:


1) You can't archive Malahat Summit, Mt. Prevost Summit and Just Beechy, because I haven't got to them yet! (Got as n ear as Cabin Point today though.)


2) You can't archive Mt. Work because many cachers haven't yet had the pleasure.


3) The in-town caches shouldn't be archived because they are simple and fun, and although most old cachers have been to them, new cachers if they don't want to do the tough or time-consuming ones but are gung-ho to get lots, need a selection of alternatives. Once the spring weather is in full swing if one of them has no visitors for a couple of months then archive it if you don't want it out there anymore, but not because of any Team K.


4) Guns at Macaulay shouldn't be archived. It's in a good location, has a good, real name and more staying power than the Team K one - it should be theirs that gets archived, not yet but in due course (see my third suggestion in the long paragraph below).


5) Instead of archiving, plan some new ones!


I have been contemplating e-mailing Team K with some suggestions. One, only use all-caps for caches that have big$ and then change to regular type once the money's gone. Two, for their "Ignore the Latitude and Longitude it only tells you the cache is on the island" caches, they could choose a particular remote area to post them where they won't perpetually appear on everyone's unfound nearby caches lists. These caches would still show up on the weekly new caches posting when new, and followers (myself included - I don't do the hard ones but follow them nonetheless) could very easily find them either by bookmarking the Team K profile or by bookmarking one of caches posted in the chosen remote area and then clicking nearby caches. Another way to publicize them and give them high visibility could be in addition to having each cache posted at the remote location with its fantasy name, also have a single cache posted in-town called "MANY EXCITING CACHES ON VANCOUVER ISLAND" with a date way ahead so it would always show as new, then on this in-town page list (with links) all the "ignore coordinates" caches that are posted at the remote area. Otherwise, only post a cache in an inhabited area if the coordinates indicate where the cache actually is, or in the case of a multicache (one where you need to go to the first location rather than just mapping or calculating it), where the first stage is. Or possibly if the coordinates don't give the cache away but are VERY close to where it is. My third suggestion would be that they archive their caches more quickly than the rest of us do because of the sheer overwhelming numbers of them.


Now that it is the new year and we have received advance notice of the new batch, would be a good time to send this e-mail to Team K, I think. If anyone has any feedback for me on the three suggestions in the previous paragraph before I send the e-mail, would be appreciated-- thanks!!!


[This message was edited by Loonie Easter Bunnies on January 06, 2003 at 12:43 PM.]

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I don't know if any caches should be archived at this soon point. THE TEAM's oldest caches have been out for a maximum of about 4 months, and I haven't had the time to do some of them, let alone finish off a half dozen I've either projected waypoints for, or abandoned so I could chase another in mid flight.




You know, I wish they would archive at least half of the channels on TV that distract from the ones (or things?) that really matter. But then again, I don't watch TV, so who am I to say?


In an old and since deleted cache log, I suggested some things for upcoming caches, and at least half were 'funny'/non-serious ideas, and a few were foresights I had had seen in my dellusional dreams. The funny ones went unheeded, and the serious ones have come to be.




Be careful what you wish for!



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It's hard to tell sometimes with you Canadazuuk, but I am interpreting this to be feedback to my third proposed suggestion to Team K. If I'm right, then thank you very much for the feedback. It shows me that I need to make it much more clear that I am not suggesting they archive the caches already yet, but just to have a plan and not leave them around indefinitely, because eventually things ARE going to get saturated.


Also I will take your advice to heart about being careful what I wish for - I do realize that Team K is VERY responsive to e-mailed requests.


Hope to get other feedback before I send the e-mail!

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Loonie Easter Bunnies, I agree that attacking a person or persons in a forum should be kept to a minimum. However, the person who started this thread and some of the persons responding should be reminded of this. As I see it this entire thread is an attack on a person or persons and should be archived. As I stated in my earlier post this "GAME"/"SPORT" is just that and should not be taken so seriously. As for me this is not about the money as some of the other players can attest I offered assistance at no cost for "A Watchers Point of View". I quite enjoy reading the interesting adventures and how players have come to join forces and turn it into something fun. I personally can't wait to be in on one of these big caches. I was set to do "Watchers" but was unable to do to work. I do not think that anyone should have to archive a cache, icon_cool.gif just do what makes you happy and don't complain. As soon as I can get a bit more time I will be placing and finding more caches myself, until then I can only read and learn of what the others are doing and the different strategies used. GeoChamp!!!

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In regards to caches with bogus coordinates. ie. "to tell you the cache is located somewhere on Vancouver Island."


It would make it a lot easier for myself and others to navigate around the cache pages, using "nearest caches" etc. if these particular caches were given an offshore set of coordinates. Where one could go looking for them (not physically) when desired. Perhaps a whole new catagory could be developed for these puzzle-project type caches.


As for caches being close to others. I like the idea of parking in one place and having a few caches to find.

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I would like to enclose excerpts of an email I sent to Team KFWB, but first, I would like to clarify a couple of things:


To GeoChamp: So what you're saying is, if someone has a differing opinion, they should shut up and go away?


When I read the first post in this thread, it is not critical of KFWB in the slightest. All it was intended to do was question the motives of caching for money. If you read further, it is not said that these caches are bad, or should not exist. All we were asking was: If you knew there was no money, no GPS, nothing but a log book and a pen, would you still go there, and do all the work it takes to get there? To date, I don't believe we've gotten an honest answer. Anyway, here is part of what I sent them.


You are more than likely aware of the hoopla occurring right now on the forums, and I would like to set the record straight, as I am tired of being misquoted, misinterpreted, and told to be quiet.

I have only done a few of your caches, and plan to do more. I haven't participated in any of the 'Big' competition caches, mainly because I don't have the time and money to, but also because I don't like what is motivating people to cache. I will more than likely do them after all the money and goodies are gone, because, while I enjoy the challenge of working out calculations and projections, caching (for me) is not about competition. It is about going to spectacular places that I would not normally have gotten to, were it not for this awesome sport! I am sure that is part of what motivates you guys to plant them too.


One of the concerns I have raised on the forums, is the sheer volume of caches you guys put out. This is OK, except, I'm afraid that people may not see 'traditional caches' in the sea of KFWB caches. I like planting caches too, and I don't want mine to get skipped over, because it has normal trinkets and goodies, compared to the big ticket items you guys offer. I'm just wondering why anyone would do a normal cache, when there is more, better, cooler stuff out there?

I fear I am being perceived as critical, when that is not the case at all. I just feel overwhelmed by the volume, and feeling the need to 'keep up'. I know there are many beautiful places on the island I can go to plant caches, but with my time/money constraints, I'm afraid that there will be a cache of yours there before I can get there, and I don't like the idea of putting a cache too close to an existing cache. My proposal in the forums was, for the time being, to just let you guys keep planting, and us 'traditional' hiders will take a breather, and go out and find all yours! For some reason, this was perceived as 'whining', and 'sour grapes'. I think it to be a perfectly sane and logical proposal-what do you think?


I don't want to be misjudged for my opinions. Strangely enough, I believe in free speech, and that everyone is entitled to an opinion. Unfortunately, I have been vilified on the forums for holding a slightly different view of your caches. Bottom line is this: I like being challenged, both mentally and physically by your caches. I just feel that I can't compete with you, insofar as volume of hides. That's all I've been trying to say all along. Don't stop planting, by any means. I just think that if you either had your caches on a different page, or didn't capitalize them, then people would be able to see, and have a crack at, the regular caches, if they so choose.


Thank you for taking the time to read this. Again, I apologize if I have sounded critical. I just thought it was time that you knew where I was really coming from. Keep it up!


That's it.


Found it!

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Time to throw in my $0.02 again.


I have spoken to the TEAM by e-mail on a number of occassions. There are no hidden motives, TV shows, or books in the works. They have been doing things similar to this all over the west coast of North America since the late 80's.


They are doing it because they are having as much fun placing the caches as we are finding them and telling our stories.


I happen to love their caches and don't have a problem with what they are doing. At the same time I also realize that not everyone shares the same opinions, and I appreciate and understand others points of view.


While we don't all agree on how we feel about these caches, why don't we agree to let this thread die, it's not really accomplishing anything.


If we push too hard the TEAM will take their activities to another venue, and I don't think anyone would want that to happen.

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It is obvious to me that you are simply not paying attention. If you were truly reading this thread, as you claim to be, you would know that:


1) Not one person answered me directly when I asked if caching should be about money, or the site. Not one.


2) Not one person would admit going to a cache because there was money in it.


3) Not one person, except myself, has admitted to caching for cash in the future.


4) Not one person came out in favour of the site, and the hide, saying caching should not be about the money. Not one.


5) This thread was started because I was curious to see how people felt about this subject. I was quickly made aware that the overriding factor IS the money, not the chase, or the site. (No one contradicted me on this one fact.) I have changed my thinking accordingly, and realized that my previous way of thinking had no place in this new game. I am now out for the money, period. Did you get that? No whining, YOU WIN! I want the money, even worse than you do.


I note that you have ZERO hides, and have thus far contributed nothing to the sport. I do not mean this to be critical in any way, but I do not believe you have ANY right to tell me what I can, or can’t, do with my hides. It is my judgment that my cache is older, and all the locals who are going to go there already have, and the newer one is a better draw. THAT is my opinion, and I am entitled to it.


6) I have never, nor shall I, demean any person or persons in this thread. There has been no attack on a person or persons, from this chair. Others have demeaned me, but I have suffered worse. As has been amply pointed out to me, “If you don’t like what is said in the thread, then DON”T read it.” (You don’t anyway. No difference.) I expect, and demand, the same treatment, however. You just attacked ME without reading my posts, because you felt like it.


7) I am impressed that you offered your help at no cost to other cachers at “Watcher”. Very commendable. Did you notice, however, that your motivation was financial in that statement?


8) I have proposed that we have a new game, based upon Team K caches. You obviously did not read that either.


9) I have spent more money going to, finding, and enjoying caches than you could possibly know. I am not alone. All cachers spend money caching, not just you and Team K.




I agree… Team K caches should NOT be archived. They are now the backbone of the sport, here on the Island especially. Mine, however, will be archived, to make room for Team K caches. I believe that caches should not be mere metres apart, as mine was to “Buzzle’s Puzzle”. This is not sour grapes. My cache has simply outlived it's usefulness.


I also note that when other cachers archive a cache, it’s no big deal. Why are my caches so special? If you feel the need to place a cache 60 metres from “Buzzle’s Puzzle”, why not plant one yourself? I can’t see anyone objecting. I probably wouldn’t go myself unless there was some sizable coin in it, but I might if the view was good.


It is my opinion that caches get old, especially these urban ones. There will be many more along to replace them. Never fear, the sky has not fallen.


Curious George: You may stop reading any time you like. A free country, remember? I, however, am enjoying a spirited debate with some intelligent people.


If I ain't countin cash', I wasn't cachin'.

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I think everyone whines too much. icon_biggrin.gif


Seriously, I don't think any caches should be archived. There's no need. Different strokes for different folks. Each cache has its place (no matter how close they are too each other). I enjoy the normal caches and then sometimes enjoy going over to the Island to do some there by KFWB. I'm not only doing KFWB caches. Each has its place!


If Team KFWB are tired of placing caches on VI they can always start placing more around Vancouver! icon_wink.gif We promise not to whine. icon_wink.gif

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I have made my opinions/answers known about many of the points/questions that MarinerBC has brought up. But just to be specific, here goes:


1) Geocaching is about adventure and finding things. It isn't possible to confine it to a list of absolute rules, but rather, it is continuing to grow within some malleable guidelines. It can be about sites, prizes, competition, teamwork and backcountry traversing. Being the 'first to find' (FTF) is itself a competition of sorts. SO YES, GEOCACHING CAN BE ABOUT PRIZES AND/OR MONEY. It's not a simple case of 'either/or'.


2) I admit that I have made many trips to the island in hopes of some financial return, or at least a 'break-even' weekend here and there. This has been noted previously, but since many of my logs have since been deleted, you may have to rely on trusting me on this one. SO YES, MONEY COULD ENTCIE ME TO MAKE A TRIP I MIGHT OTHERWISE DELAY, OR POTENTIALLY NOT MAKE AT ALL. Being from the mainland though, makes this not carry as much weight.


3) I will cache for cash in the future. As well, I will work with others, and share the adventures that are ALWAYS included with the potential of CA$H. I will also cache for caches. I did two today. One was a FTF.


4) The mere existence and continuation of this thread proves that others have reasoned the idea of 'caching for cash'. You are not alone in this respect. Many cachers have stated how great some of the views have been at various TEAM caches, and cachers who have done NON-TEAM caches (as of recent) have also remarked about views of those caches. Refer to point 1) again as well. (ie: 'Geocaching is about adventure and finding things.')


5) Does this not contradict question 2) and 3)?? Refer to point # 1) again. It's very hard to make a definitive statement about what motivates each cacher to attempt any of the larger TEAM caches. There are MANY factors. The mere fact that WATCHER probably cost each TEAM over $400.00 in gas, ferries, accomodations etc... attests to the fact that people are taking this pretty seriously.


6) 'Perception is Reality'. I have had to refrain from posting 'large' caching stories due to the potential for misinterpretation, side-swiping and other such nonsense. I now send my 'larger' stories directly to THE TEAM and my teammates for that completed cache. Mariner, some of the things you have stated, I have interpreted as 'un-positive'. As well, you appear to be swinging between various opinions, each with it's own variety of absolutes. Is it really a case of 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em?'


7) THE GUESSTEAMMATES have a different idea about this one. icon_wink.gif


8) Why is it a 'new game'? Why does it have to be compared to the 'old game'? Why do we have to compare? I only have 50 finds or so, and I don't feel bad because someone with a digital camera has 200! Or someone who really enjoys geocaching has actually gone out and found 200. But I do understand WHY people compare. In school, we called this 'keeping up with the Jones's...'


9) All hobbies cost money. Geocaching costs money. Some caches are more expensive to get to than others. I'd say $10 per cache on average, so Mariner, that's $2000 or so isn't it? My costs are over $10 per cache, as there aren't nearly as many caches of ANY kind in Vancouver as on the island.


The invite is still open, but please, wear grey for a day!! icon_cool.gificon_razz.gificon_biggrin.gif




[This message was edited by canadazuuk on January 06, 2003 at 10:33 PM.]

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I have noted that a Vancouver island cache approximately 100 metres from a TEAM cache has seen five visits since the nearby TEAM cache was placed. Please see Guns at Macaulay


I think there should be royalty payments made for helping to prolong and/or increase traffic to this cache!


I placed a cache on Sumas Mountain, and it hasn't been visited in 78 days!! Boy would I be willing to get some better exposure at a set price! I can't even attract visitors, even though my cache appears in this thread.


What can a lonely cache do on top of a mountain that no one visits?




(read this post lightly, and interpret it's intended humourous tone)


[This message was edited by canadazuuk on January 06, 2003 at 10:43 PM.]

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If the Team wants to give me free gear and cash, For hiking, yaking, snow shoeing to cool new places. IM on it like white on rice (not to be mistaken for team white rice)


Mariner I will give you what you want to hear. ITS ABOUT THE $$$$$ GREENBACKS, MULA, MUCHO DENEROES, COLD HARD CASH!!!!!


But if the cash wasn't there I would still go, and WILL go if or when they stop.


Money don't get everything it's true.

What it don't get I can't use.

So gimme money (that's what I want)

A little money (that's what I want)

That's what I want, ye-ye-yeh,

That's what I want


Toys In the attic will still be there when this ends, and I will go. Mt Prevost summit will still be there when this ends, and I will go. Hell I will probably be the first to hit my own Broken lookin for cache (not hit yet & placed 08/02!)


Most of us would be out in the mountains anyway, The fact that you can grab an FRS while your there makes it that much better!


See ya on the next big one Mariner



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Thanks Eroyd for stating the case so simply. Did you say that about "offshore coordinates" somewhere before? I had a deja vue about it, which made me wonder if I subconsciously got the idea from you in the first place - if so I apologize for taking it over as my own suggestion.


I was going to wait a bit and see if there would be any more feedback on my three suggestions for Team K, but when I saw three of the four new caches were posted in Oak Bay (not very far from my home coordinates) when they actually are many kilometers distant, prompted me to act now in the hopes that Team K might consider this suggestion before posting any more, so the e-mail has been sent. I decided to concentrate only on Suggestion Two about not posting "Ignore Coordinates" in town, because I felt that one was the most important. I also sent along what Eroyd said.


Canadazuuk, thanks again for your cautionary message - I decided not to mention anything about archiving.

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I'll bet THE TEAM reads every word that appears on these pages...


Below will hopefully be my final foray to add to this freakish phonetic frenzy. It's my new moniker:


If I ain't countin' ca$h, then I'm enjoyin' a view, torchin' a lock, hikin' in snow, eatin' a candy cane, lookin' for new teammates, or ridin' a ferry while hearin' contemplatin' music. And if I AM countin' ca$h, I could still be doin' all the same things...

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Ah, what a fun thread. Speak, counterspeak, double speak. It gets a bit tough to figure out what it is that people are really trying to say in here some days. Some times it is out of this side of their mouth, other times it is out of that side.


What are we all talking about in here?


I think that what this discussion is talking about is "motivation". Yes, why do you do what you do?


Do you work? Why do you go to work? To make money? Social life? Self-fulfillment? Perhaps you like the scenery?


Why do you Geocache? This is an important question if you are to understand what you believe and how you are going to act on your beliefs.


Why do you Geocache? Seriously, why?


Here are some possible reasons, in no ranked order:

1. You enjoy the challenge of using a GPS

2. You enjoy the mystery of not knowing what you will find.

3. You enjoy finding caches.

4. You enjoy hiding caches.

5. You enjoy long walks in the woods.

6. You enjoy solitary activities, or activities in small groups.

7. You like some sort of competition, whether it be to be the first finder, have the most finds beside your name, have the most caches hidden, have the most popular caches, etc.

8. You enjoy some form of mind challenge, as shown by a KFWB cache that requires one or more calculations.

9. You enjoy getting out into the boonies and wrecking your tires.

10. You enjoy trading small items for small items in caches.

11. You like the team work of a big money cache.

12. You like the competition of a big money cache.

13. You like to keep your "not yet found" list as clear as you can within 100km of your location.

14. You caceh for the money.


There are more reasons, I know.


This arguement in here is getting silly. Why? Each of us is motivated by different reasons. To criticize one motivation over another is pointless. If I like to cache because I like the solitary walk in the woods than am I hurting you because you like to cache for the thrill of a first find?


Keep caching as though you are the only one out there. Keep finding and hiding caches. Keep doing it for whatever reason motivates you today, whether it be views, money, adventure, team work, etc.


To archive caches because you see another cacher hiding more than you can keep up with is not a good enough reason, in my opinion, to stop playing at the game you like. But, if that is what motivates you, or unmotivates you, then do what you feel you need to do.


If you do not like the KFWB caches, Dagg caches, Plantman caches, etc. than don't bother with them. But, if you disagree with some aspect of them that really, ultimately, does not hurt you then maybe leave it alone. Again, it gets back to what motivates you.


The arguement that the cache pages are cluttered with KFWB caches, in bold lettering, is funny. There are several hundred caches now between here, Campbell River and Vancouver. You need to wade through pages of caches to find newly hidden ones regardless. The whole website is cluttered, if you really think about it.


Frustrated because you do not know how to solve a KFWB cache riddle? Ask someone. There are at least 20 people locally that have done these caches, and each would love to show you how to solve the puzzles. I like that bit of mind work, myself. I have learned a small amount in the process and it does make for an interesting hunt. It certainly livens up a trip to Beacon Hill Park or McCauley Point when I have had to do some calculations before arriving. Again, what motivates you to do what you do and what makes it fun for you?


A note on capital letters. I use to know an old guy who loved computers. He was a bit blind and he found the small letters to be a bit of a pain, literally. He would write all of his e-mails to me in capital letters. I soon got use to this way in which he communicated and moved on to actually enjoying his e-mails. Who knows why the KFWB caches are, for the most part, capitalized. It is a fairly petty reason to complain - again, my opinion.


The bottom line: If, as an example, Plantman hides a cache on a semi-accessible island, and I want to go get it, I will. I'll find a way. But, if I do not like Plantman hiding a cache on an island I will leave it alone and probably go do some other cache that awaits. You do what you like, and leave alone what you do not.


Figure out why you cache, what motivates you, and then go do that. (Have I said that yet?)

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Sorry Loonie, I ment to mention having seen this previously in your thread. I'd heard this idea a few times before off-line and thought it was a good idea worth repeating.


How about putting the bogus coord's off-shore, but do it in a way so that when they are all plotted on a chart they make some sort of pattern which in itself could be a clue to a puzzle. Or how about just a connect the dots puzzle for my kids to do.


As for cash and prizes being the reason for geocaching. Certainly not on it's own. Yellowcodes list definately covers many of my other motivations but the cash and prises sure act as a kick in the pants to get out that door in a hurry.


Case in point:


"LOOK ALIVE GEOCACHE" had 7 visits within hours of being posted. On a work day! (And Plantman wasn't one of them?)


"Metchosin Pit Stop" posted on the same day had none.


The main thing that distinguishes this activity from any other, is the use of these little thingys called the GPS receiver. If I can park at one spot be it at McCauley Pt., Saxe Pt., Mount Doug or San Juan Ridge and visit several unique caches, placed by different individuals, ALL THE BETTER.

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Right on Yellowcode3 - yesterday I said that I thought this thread should die. This morning I was thinking that a new thread should be started to discuss what motivates people without singling out any one person's or Team's caches - you beat me to it.


I encourage everyone to jump into the new thread and we can have that lively debate icon_biggrin.gif

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Yellowcode3 I think you’ve summed it up perfectly. I’m sure that along with all you have stated there is probably dozen’s more motivating factors that drive people to cache. However, the bottom line is who really cares or who really has time to care, if you like it do it if you don’t like it don’t do it. My response to Mariner having starting this thread, and being so persistent in finding out if money is what is motivating people to do some of these caches, is it’s none of your business what motivates me and should really be none of your business what motivates others. Why don’t you start minding your own business and forget about what motivates others and concentrate on your own “LITTLE” world and what it is that motivates you to talk to a tree, shed a tear over a great view, earn money so that you to can cache or anything else you feel fit to do. In the meantime I personally think this thread stinks, is boring, and is starting to take away from the fun of caching. In closing, Mariner and Cacherunner I’ll tell you what motivates me to write in this fashion, petty, nosy, busybody, jealousy, just to mention a few out of many. What I would love to see is for you guy and girl to saddle that rubber duck and sail off into the sunset forgetting all the small stuff. Time to forget and start having fun it seems like everyone else is / was! GeoChamp!!!

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Thanks Yellowcode for weeding out everything and stating things so simply. All we were trying to do was find out which kind of caching people preferred, and if the caching for cash was indeed the direction the sport was taking. Don't worry, we won't be stopping-we just wanted to do what we have already done, and that is to find out what gets you guys out the door. We weren't looking for absolutes or either/or. You guys have NEVER been obligated to read this or respond to it, but we're glad you did! From the original post (if anyone actually remembers it):

Does anyone else think that maybe the sport has changed for the worse?
All we were looking for were opinions on if you felt the sport had changed, and boy, did we get them!! icon_biggrin.gif


In the meantime I personally think this thread stinks, is boring, and is starting to take away from the fun of caching.

So why did you reply to it?

However, the bottom line is who really cares or who really has time to care, if you like it do it if you don’t like it don’t do it. My response to Mariner having starting this thread, and being so persistent in finding out if money is what is motivating people to do some of these caches, is it’s none of your business what motivates me and should really be none of your business what motivates others.

Obviously you have time to care. To quote, if you don't like it, don't reply. It's simple-you should understand that. Why have forums at all, if you want us all to have the same opinion?

Time to forget and start having fun it seems like everyone else is / was!

Go for it! At the risk of of sounding redundant-if you don't like it, don't read it, and please don't reply.


Anyway, I didn't want this to be negative. I agree that there has been an irrefutably different element added to the sport. I have never said that I wouldn't do them-as a matter of fact, I'm busy plotting waypoints with our new software, as we speak! icon_smile.gif I enjoy this challenge, but I greatly prefer the simple find after a walk in the woods-THAT is what motivates me, when you get right down to it.


To criticize one motivation over another is pointless.
For me, it will never be the goodies and the high ticket items, and I have never criticized anyone for doing so. For me, it is the thrill of the hunt/find(hopefully), and the opportunity to go new places. I will do KFWB caches ,if for no other reason than to get them off my 'undone' cache list! icon_razz.gif


I hope this clears the air. I know where all of you stand. So if you don't mind, it's my day off, it's 15 degrees, and I'm going outside! icon_smile.gif


[This message was edited by cacherunner on January 07, 2003 at 12:54 PM.]

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Money, it's a gas

Grab that cash with both hands and make a stash

Money, get back

I'm all right Jack keep your hands off of my stack

Money, it's a crime

Share it fairly but don't take a slice of my pie

Money, so they say

Is the root of all evil today


Some day, who knows when-a big$$ cache will come our way, with rewards to those most deserving (not us)


In trees, by rocks, or under logs

You can't hide it from Team Underdog!


[This message was edited by Team Underdog on January 07, 2003 at 01:33 PM.]

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I would like to take this opportunity to publicly thank the TEAM for what they are doing.


You have added a whole new dimension to the sport of Geocaching. You are also generating a lot of interest in the sport, which is something which helps ALL of us in the end.


You have taken me to incredible places, helped me to meet new friends, and made it possible for me to acquire some nice goodies along the way.


illegitimi non carborundum icon_wink.gif

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I have seen the light. As I have stated publicly, I used to cache for other reasons, many altruistic. I am reborn. It's the money. It had better be a great cache for me to go there if there is NO money in it. I have read, listened, and learned.


Dagg: Right ON! I'm with you all the way. BUT! get to Prevost early in the spring; it gets archived in April.


About Guns at Macaulay: Once again, I point out that it is NOT a new cache. Everyone has been there, and the site is NOT as good as the KFWB site. IF YOU WANT TO PUT A CACHE THERE YOURSELF, GO AHEAD! Everyone knows where it is. C'mon folks, Anyone can place a cache here. Why do I have to maintain it?


Canadazuuk, re: Sumas Mtn: Throw a hundred bucks in it. I'll take the day off and go tomorrow, ferries and all. AND I'll sell ya the camera. Cheap.


I still have a soft spot for nice places, and if there is a geocache near one of those places I may, or may not, try for it. I will stick to Team K caches when I can, however, whether there is money in them or not. They are top of my list.


Yellowcode, as you say, to each their own. I will continue to enjoy this sport for my own reasons, whether or not other cachers agree with those reasons.


When I started this thread, I was curious if other cachers had ideas about caching for cash. I did have reservations about it, and now I do not. Some of you have convinced me. I will go for the money each and every time. If there is another bonus, like a nice site, or a great view, great. (But I won't post any more pictures. That's not what it's about for me.) I have thrown off my socialistic tendencies, and joined the 21st century.


If I'm not counting, it was a bad day.

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All right Mariner!

So the capitalist pig inside you has taken over. I knew you had it in ya!



Those pitiful trinket filled ice-cream containers have no place in our New World order.

We will eradicate them one cache at a time, until nothing but big $ fully waterproof caches remain!


Nuff said IM going for Chinese food

You can go for Mexican



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To find the answer to your question, solve the following puzzle: Presuming the earth is a sphere, determine the number of posts to the forum called "Goodbye...for Now" and use this as your easting. The number of posts to THIS forum (the one we're on) will give you your northing. Use a correction factor calculated by averaging the number of views per day each has received. Then ignore the resulting UTM and find a pink tag located within 25 meters at 999 degrees true somewhere on the Goodbye for Now forum.


If the tag turns out to be orange, decrypt the hint:

[You are looking for a tag labelled] Qntt.


[This message was edited by Loonie Easter Bunnies on January 08, 2003 at 08:02 AM.]

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On here you missed mine - the most addicting aspect of geocaching is having a place to record your experience (with an audience yet!). Also trying to be creative in making your own caches.




If you don't think Team K's many "Ignore Coordinates" caches clutter the not yet found nearby caches list of someone who doesn't intend to do the hard ones, try registering a new player with home coordinates in a fairly central area of greater Victoria and a smaller circle than yours, say 10k or so. Make the rounds of all the straighforward caches with real names that exist where they're posted, and see what you're left with! icon_smile.gif


PS: Does anyone know whether signing up as a charter member for $30 a year would give me the ability to move selected caches off my not found nearby caches list but still be able to view them from the Team K profile?


- Loonie Easter Bunny "I only get'em if they're easy and close"

- aka the Mystery Cachers' mom


[This message was edited by Loonie Easter Bunnies on January 08, 2003 at 10:01 AM.]

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Well to the few sour grapes who finally got what they were looking for I hope you have some great caches planned. As a matter of principle I certainly cannot see myself wasting time or money going after any of your caches. Perhaps some of the other cachers will find just as much enjoyment in your caches as they found in the TEAM caches. I think you are totaly selfish individuals concerned only in your own little world. Here is your big day your claim de fame enjoy all your negative publicity. See ya! wouldn't wanna be ya! GeoChamp!!!

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Those of you in the geocaching community who were instrumental in the demise of this teams efforts should now be willing to stand up and be counted. Most of the people who read and post to this forum will know who they are anyway.

A few selfish attitudes towards others and their larger than life egos have indeed taken a lot away from the many who enjoy this sport in your community.

I sincerely hope this teams efforts will be appreciated wherever they go next. It definetly builds interest in the sport.

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hmmmm "...a change in how the sport is done here on Vancouver Island. It used to be great hikes, to new places, reading hilarious log entries, and the thrill of the hunt. No more."


As the other half of the JRAV team, I must have been looking in all the wrong places over the past sixty-seven days or so!


I have experienced and endured "great hikes, new places, hilarious log entries and the thrill of the hunt" in copious & repetitive huge doses!


The ONLY factual tidbit I could discern from the originator's input.... NO MORE!


...and I add... So SAD!

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At this exact moment in time I have a very strong desire to ignore logic and truly express how I feel about a couple of people on this list and their continued attitude in life. Ahh, to allow the emotions to rule, or to use logic?


The interesting thing about people, and their opinions, is that those opinions can damage others. Eventually, there is a ramification for every action we take.


Here is how I see it in this discussion:


1. The loudest dissent to the Team KFWB GPS caches came from a very small number of people. It is my opinion that those same people were initially, and continuously, frustrated by the mind work needed to actually complete even the least complex of the Team caches. It is my opinion that this lack of understanding and this frustration led them to post, post after post, about how frustrated they were. This frustration was veiled, in my opinion, in any negative they could come up with. I wonder how they feel about anyone different from themselves?


2. These negative posts contributed to the end of an opportunity for at least 2 dozen people in and around the south Island. A small number of people have soiled the fun of a great number of others. I wonder if they feel happy now? Powerful? Satisfied?


It will take time for others to contribute the same kind of mind twisting caches that the KFWB caches created. In the meantime, the winter caching scene could get rather quiet around here.


I have to say that the logic of these same couple of dissentors to defend their position was very often flawed and seemed to contradict earlier statements they made. I stand by my earlier post expressing the simple idea that those that complained so loudly expressed themselves in a "sour grapes" fashion. Re-reading this entire thread I can see the dissention is really in only a couple of places.


To quote the first post in this thread:


"I note with sadness, a change in how the sport is done here on Vancouver Island. It used to be great hikes, to new places, reading hilarious log entries, and the thrill of the hunt. No more. No it's about BIG $$$ and expensive software, and plotting coords in Australia, to draw a line to a toilet bowl somewhere near the coast line. After 193 finds, I am now a dinosaur I guess. I did one team KGB cache, and was not thrilled by the money or the site. Does anyone else think that maybe the sport has changed for the worse? Perhaps it's time for me to retire, if it's all about the money. Posted Nov. 19/02"



Re-reading it, I can see this as a direct flame against one cacher, Team KFWB GPS. There are several points made here in criticism.


This post was followed, not all that long ago later by:



"It used to be 1,2,3,7,9,11,15, and 16.


It is now solely, 17. It's the money. Nothing else. Anything else is secondary.


If I'm not counting, I'm not cashing... Are we there yet?


Posted January 07, 2003"


I wonder, will this cacher now quit entirely if there is no money in Geocaching? He is on record as telling us what his new found motivation is, even excluding the other possible reasons. We have been asked to re-read his posts and to accept them at face value and accept that what he writes is what he means. It can be tricky to figure out what a person really means. The first post says he is thinking about retiring if it is ALL about the money. The last post tells us he is only about the money. Logic is not adding up here. A bit of an internal fight? Is life so black and white?


Perhaps we will need to endure through another thread about loosing a GPS and saying good-bye to the "community". They came back, only to find fault with things they did not understand, or even attempt to understand.


What next? I am watching anxiously to see what is next in all of this.


To answer my earlier dilemma, I guess I ignored logic.

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Damgiz and others looking for a target to sling some mud at:


Reading the Team KFWB GPS resignation letter posted by Curious George at the top of his forum, I noticed several references to a suggestion made by me ("remote site") and also to a suggestion I had contemplated but decided against (using all-caps only on caches with big$). I believe that my comments a couple of days ago on this forum regarding these suggestions may well have been the last straw that broke the camel's back.


So let me tell you who I am. A middle-aged directionally-challenged mom who loves geocaching. I'm not a full-time parent--my kids are away most weekends during the school year and most weekdays during the summer, plus they're getting to a more self-reliant age, which gives me time to also go geocaching with adult friends and spend way too much time indulging my addiction to the web site and in the last few weeks the Canada forum, to the detriment of housework, yardwork and sometimes sleep. For almost a year I've been very happily geocaching on Vancouver Island like many other families, individuals and yes, teams. My Loonie Easter Bunnies profile doesn't reflect my full experience as I also did almost all caches found by The Mystery Cachers. Some of my motivations for geocaching can be found in my post on Yellowcode's forum but the usual ones of getting outdoors to enjoy surroundings and find new places, breathe fresh air and and get some exercise are also important to me. I have enjoyed doing a few of Team K's easy caches in my area, and very much enjoyed following the challenging ones from my computer-chair.


I live at what feels like the epicentre of the posted coordinates for approx 75 geocaches by Team K in the last three months of 2002, with advance warning of another 30. Of the new 30, 4 were recently posted in one day, 3 of those 4 were posted in Oak Bay a few minutes by car from my home. Of those 3, I gather one is located on Saturna Island and the other 2 out on the logging roads near Jordan River.


For someone who navigates the web site by clicking nearby caches, if you don't intend to do the many difficult caches with confusing all-sound-alike names that don't exist where they are posted in a heavily populated area, you can't just ignore them, because they're in your face every day. The only way to get them off your list would be to do them. Because the number of these was ever increasing, I suggested posting them out in the remote areas where they actually are, and also suggested a way of ensuring that these would still be highly visible and publicized.


When I say the last straw, I mean of course that the camel's back was already so heavily burdened from being part of a team that created 80 caches, being the individual whose job it was to deal with over 2000 notifications and emails, and feeling the need to try to keep everyone happy. It's no wonder it only took a straw to break! I certainly don't believe that Team K abandoned Vancouver Island because of anything one Loonie Easter Bunny said. I expect this project has just been so intense that burnout happened.


But getting back to the few and the many. From what I gather, Team K's biggest caches have had anywhere from 0 to 12 finders, the next one would maybe have seen about 16-20. These people would be the few who feel the biggest loss. Next would be the many more who, like myself, have been avidly following the adventures by watching, and maybe finding some of the lesser challenging caches. We certainly felt shock at Curious George's news and continue to feel a degree of loss but it's not as acute. Beyond that there is a silent majority of cachers on Vancouver Island who aren't haven't involved themselves as closely, but because I've been so caught up in this business I really can't speculate how much it affects them.


[This message was edited by Loonie Easter Bunnies on January 09, 2003 at 10:39 AM.]


[This message was edited by Loonie Easter Bunnies on January 09, 2003 at 12:05 PM.]

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Seems to me that Vancouver Island has now turned into one big school yard. The kid with the biggest and best ball has decided to go home with his ball and now the rest of the children are fighting. We are now seeing bullys and gangs forming wanting to beat up someone or something. As everybody says, it's just a game folks.


I promise to drag out my inner child, kick it in the butt and play nice. Will anyone else make that promise?


We live on a rock, ergo we rockcrawl.......

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