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Team KFWB GPS, and old time geocaching

Solar Max
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Okay - took most of the negativity out of my last post.

And Canadazuuk, I actually was trying to be friendly by suggesting googlewhacking - you seem to enjoy coming up with words (multitude of muddy roads?) so I thought it just might be up your alley even though I didn't find it very absorbing. I heard about it the same place I first heard about geocaching - CBC radio..


[This message was edited by Loonie Easter Bunnies on December 02, 2002 at 07:45 AM.]

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Oh, you're entirely friendly! I was being entirely vague intentionally. I've taken a bashing this week here and there, and not everybody is friendly in other places, but on this thread- all is good so far!


I'm sorry though, what is googlewhacking? must look this up on yahoo perhaps.


BOLD ENDURANCE should be a good time on Sunday I hope. I'd like to see 8 teams there! There's a few folks who've had it way too easy, and as a result, have become accustomed to the small party.


I didn't see anything *unpositive* in your last post, I don't even see what you changed!





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Ok, now we know that Team KFWB GPS is a real good asset to the scene, they proved it to me, anyway. Now we need a DEBATE between a "do it cuz it's fun/the place/the hunt/" person, and a "Do it for the money" person. I can't nominate for my own side, so I think the most worthy opponents are: Team KFWB GPS. But, they aren't going to, because they are too involved personally. Hmm...hey Zuuk, wanna try?




If I ain't sweatin', I ain't cachin. Are we there yet?

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I am on record as saying "the cache is the chase". But equally true, I do wish to have my additonal *expenses* covered by coming to the island on multiple occasions.


I cannot argue solely in favour of *caching for cash*, but I can/have/will *defend* it.


If the caches are there, people will do them. I'm one of those people. I also happen to *enjoy* the backroads, so it's been a great interest for me. And being a mainlander, you might as well chuck in the travel aspect. *Destination geocaching.*


If/when these are gone, or the *cash* is gone, they'll still be worthwhile to do. True, I won't make three trips in three weeks to tackle them, but I like geocaching for what it is, and the rest just augments it. It's pointless for me to *rate* caches in that sense. You either decide to do a cache or you don't. That cache in your back alley with talking silly putty and broken string has it's own story to tell.



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With an audience of 1,296 I can't resist the urge to bring this forum back to the top of the list. Haven't come up with a stimulating contribution to the debate, so instead let me tell you a true story.


This morning I woke up from a dream . . .


The first batch of TEAM KFWB caches was finished. BOLD ENDURANCE and the last remaining BIG$ one had been found, and there was no new crop looming on the horizon. On some of their pages Team K had posted an easy clue sending everyone who reads their caches to a certain location at a particular time to pick up a final prize. The location was a real estate office, big bright modern. It was in Shawnigan Lake and many cachers were there. For some dream reason it was not deepest December, but sunny, dry and hopeful--probably June.


After each cacher claimed their prize (the dream did not concern itself with what the prizes were) they were offered coffee by two young women at the front counter of the real estate office, then handed some stapled-together papers that explained who Team KFWB GPS really was, and why they put such large sums of money into geocaching.


The real me tried desperately to get the dream me to focus on reading the pages before I woke up, but in typical dream fashion everything conspired to thwart. I did manage to see that there were four head-and-shoulders photos with a few paragraphs about each, and caught a glimpse of the word "paintball," but I still couldn't concentrate on the elusive goal. Time was starting to run out; I could tell I was almost waking up.


Then everyone was sitting around on the lawn outside the real estate office in the sun. The earth didn't rumble or erupt, but suddenly there were cracks in the grass. Through the cracks we could see things bulging up from underneath. El ectronic stuff mostly--there were gps's, cell phones, palm pilots, cd players, waterproof containers, cd's, and much more. The crowd of cachers scrambled frantically, but we weren't scrambling to grab the loot. We were horrified that we hadn't buried it well enough, and worked together to get it all properly buried before anyone could notice.


Somewhere in all of this I managed to ask my son if he had read the sheets. Yes he had. I asked him if Team KFWB were owners of a paintball game attraction. Yes they were.


. . . end of dream


I truly did not make any of this up. It was tempting to embellish the story by at least making Team K the owners of a *CHAIN* of paintball adventures, but that would not have been how it really happened.


Thank you, Mar iner, for providing the forum. (Now if I can only convince myself that most of the 1,296 aren't just the same two obsessed egotistical internet addicts, Zuuk and LEB, endlessly rereading their own words.))


[This message was edited by Loonie Easter Bunnies on December 07, 2002 at 09:35 AM.]

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I myself am now 'roaring with laughter'. I may in fact be obsessed with these *particular* caches, but I haven't viewed this thread 'quite' that many times. (New thread idea- 'Aren't all geocachers obsessive?')


Looks like a good weekend for caching!


Hope to see some new faces on Sunday in ?????????, and even some *old* faces too. I have made my peace offering. What is left via poetic justice will be a monument to my *contrived* thoughts.


Multiple meanings moodily making mayhem mercilessly.



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So, for continuing conversation about these caches, do we start a new thread, or just keep adding to this one.


I am totally FUBAR in the head right now.


I'm supposed to start a new job at 11:30, and I'm trying to delete geocaching from my brain.


Sorry, nice try.


Do you have to have a friggin helicopter to be first?



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I thought of a cool idea. Get a radio controlled helicopter with on-board GPS, camera and transmitter. Fly the helicopter to a spot and remotely gather clues looking at on-board camera and knowing exactly where you are looking.


How much would a thing like this cost? Anyone got an idea? I think it would be perfect for some of these caches, or getting the clues at least! Instead of the mega high-clearance 4x4ing and mega uphill hiking I did on Sunday I could have sat in my truck looking at a TV screen controlling a remote controlled helicopter hunting for tags!


What you guys think?

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Hey! Hey! Hey! Everybody I've been following along for sometime now and thought it would be a good idea to get involved before someone looses it. Yeah you heard me, loose it as in loose the whining everybody."GeoChamp" is now on the scene and I'm going to deliver a flurry of wins to all your solarplex's. Ever since I've been the GeoChamp!!!

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What the hell is "loose" it? icon_confused.gif When something of mine goes missing, I "lose" it. Or has the language changed that much since I took grammar? What do you say champ? Are you a pro? Is geocaching all about the money, or all about the hunt, the hide, or the trip home?


P.S. It's Solar Plexus.


If I ain't sweatin', I ain't cachin. Are we there yet?

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Mariner - if you're going to be picky, at least get it right. "Loose" for "lose" and "solarplex" are both spelling, not grammatical, errors. icon_smile.gif


Geochamp - love your character and your attitude and the cute idea of patrolling forums and then stepping in with your big chest and small solar plexus just when things are about to get out of hand. But I agree with Mariner: If you're going to drop out of "here and there" with 0 finds and enter the rink (arena? ring? - not up on my fight terminology) at this stage of the game threatening to knock some sense into the forum participants icon_smile.gif, then you owe it to the forum to also make a stimulating contribution to the topic under debate. Stimulate: post something to a forum that encourages a rash of replies to keep the momentum going.

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Hey, Hey, Hey!


You know, I am having a great time the last few days. The only real downer time was the ferry ride home Sunday night.


Anyway, what's with all the bogus userid's coming out all at once? Kinda odd. I can handle the criticism, but that somebody would want to hide their real identity is indeed strange. Or is it human nature?


One more thing, I have seen what seems like a tonne of new cachers in the last little while logging Vancouver area caches, including TEAM caches. It's really good to see more folks. I've even noted a new cache hider, who hadn't found any according to their userid. So things are picking up, despite all the attention that THE TEAM's caches attract.


Speaking of THE TEAM's caches, there are a tonne on Saltspring Island right now. Of course, the remnant of what was BOLD ENDURANCE is still there, as 7 cachers contributed items to what would have otherwise been NOTHING, not even a logbook (except a note saying what the first to third place items were). Over a few beers at a pub, 6 cachers talked about what the logs would be like for BOLD ENDURANCE, and some equipment lists were made. People agreed the view was spectacular, and that others should visit it.


I'd really encourage folks to visit BOLD ENDURANCE, and see the awesome view.


According to an e-mail from THE TEAM I received yesterday, the road that tow trucks couldn't go up referred to question 11, not the final cache... so yes, you can take your car.


I have posted some good tools in my logs that will allow some new folks to project waypoints accurately, so I hope to see a few more parties take these caches on. I am no master in geometrics, but the tools are good for interested laymen.



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I stand corrected. I, indeed, should have said spelling, not grammatical errors. I thank the Loonie Easter bunnies for pointing this out. Besides, I make more mistakes than anyone I know.


Re: Bold Endurance..CZuk, I now have the GPSr that I will require to do some of these. I hope that the view you refer to is truly worthy, as I am extremely picky. I hope the cash is all gone, and there are some small trade items, so I can make a normal trade. Have you guys posted any pictures of these places? I have yet to see any. What's up with that?


If I ain't sweatin', I ain't cachin. Are we there yet?

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Mariner, there is indeed pictures of the view courtesy of eroyd. The BOLD ENDURANCE location should have a cache of some typical trade items, as well as cd's. This cache was created by the 7 geocachers that appear in the pictures. They added the logbook, as one WAS NOT present. (THE TEAM was collecting the entire event on camera somewhere we all presume...)


Please review my information carefully to determine where it is, because I have not posted a UTM for the actual cache location. You still have to do a calculation and a search after locating the tag. As per THE TEAM: 'YOU ASKED ABOUT THE DISTANCE FROM THE TAG TO THE CACHE - 'BOLD ENDURANCE'. THIS WAS THE ACTUAL DISTANCE BETWEEN THE TWO POINTS.'


All the best. And if you go to Saltspring, there are many other caches to try as well... maybe RobertM can give you a tag # or two from UBC?



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Great idea, and please note that eroyd has already beaten you GeoChamp!!! That was a kind radio airwave blasting into your brain while you were asleep!!! icon_biggrin.gificon_razz.gif


He has donated an FRS radio, and the thank you note appears as a picture in the BOLD ENDURANCE GEOCACHE.


Mariner: there are so many logs on BOLD ENDURANCE (98% mine or people flaming me), that you need to view all logs to be able to view even notes posted within the last 24 hours...



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Hey Zuuk,


I DID go through the logs on Bold Endurance, and was pleased to see that the site, (On Baynes Pk., it looks like to me) IS a great site. I will be doing this one on a sunny day soon. I saw the pics eroyd took soon after posting my comments. Figures huh?( btw, excellent images eroyd!)


I congratulate all that chased this one, and would have been happy to do so myself, had I not had to work, or if I had had a proper vehicle for it, etc. It was fun watching it.


I still come back to this: Was the chase for the chase? Or was the chase for the money? No one has answered that for me yet. It's always about: "THIS CLUE will be released on Friday!!" or "I chased a GPS tag past Port Renfrew." I ask, would the same level of enthusiasm be there, if I offered 10 bucks, as cdms and I did at the first 2 multi-caches here on the Southern Island?


As for GeoDoctor, I understand how you are upset by being questioned. I don't blame you. However, the forums are free for all to have their say. If I don't want to do KFWB caches, I don't have to. Nor do I have to read forum posts, if I so choose. Always remember though, that knowledge, pleasant or not, always enhances our understanding. Tolerance is a virtue.


If I ain't sweatin', I ain't cachin. Are we there yet?

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Actually, it's not the questioning that is the problem (in my mind), it's that I don't like the idea of someone using a bogus userid to hurl flames from a hiding spot.


They mellowed their tone on the third post, possibly indicating that they were beginning to have some idea of what my perspective was/is.


So, it's on to WATCHER now. And there's some interesting threads happening there already...



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Thank you eroyd for helping to crystallize my thoughts on this situation (see Bold Endurance). I am thankful this chase turned around all the acrimony from Rest & be Thankful. At first I was miffed at spending another weekend hearing the colour commentary – no home computer so I can’t even participate in the final calc’s – not even the play by play as I had to wait until it was all over. icon_razz.gif Green with envy – it has been too long since I was on the islands enjoying the view. Then, I started to hear what eroyd was saying about the spirit of the adventure, how everyone joined in the rivalry the way it was intended to be. And reading the posts, I see everyone else was struck by how spontaneous was the fun. Maybe it was the weather, maybe the excitement of a BC ferry ride, maybe the million dollar view, I don’t know.

Soooo – lets turn the clock to zero honey, and start a new philosophy. Any cacher finding money or items convertible to money should donate such items to charity. Do the Celebrity Jeopardy and declare for a cause, then we watchers can cheer for “our” team – maybe place some side pledges. No one visiting our home could accuse us of living in luxury, but we pay the mortgage and can give our girls a loving and secure childhood. The rest of us do not need these toys, and the Team obviously has money to burn, and so many kids have absolutely nothing. Lets put our hearts into the chase, like so many profess to do, and do the right thing. Otherwise, it is all about money, and nothing else. As for how expensive it is to do these Team caches, lots of people spend stupid amounts of money on skiing and golf, or watching a bunch of overpaid prima donnas prance around on a playing field.

Just my thoughts.


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Hey! Hey! Hey! Cachewidow it's me Geochamp!

I would like to add my two cents worth re.your thoughts. I'm new to the game, but have been following it for awhile and decided it was time to get involved. I think that Team KFWB GPS has contributed alot to the sport/game and taken very little from what I'm able to see. None of us to date know these persons and there motives. If they have money to burn as you indicate, perhaps they burn money in areas such as charities. So for you and all other cachers world wide I present this challenge. All Nations Challenge Please help spread the word time is running out. Merry Christmas!Ever since I've been the GeoChamp!!!

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Cachewidow, your wisdom humbles me. That is a brilliant idea. Now, how do we all get together and agree to donate to Charity? Should KFWB leave certificates in caches, to be filled in with the charity of your choice? Should it go to Santa's Anonymous with the cacher's handle on it as the person/team donating?


If I ain't sweatin', I ain't cachin. Are we there yet?

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In response to your question about why chase these particular cache. I would like to think that I'm not as concerned about the money. It would be nice to win big,(l do like cachewidow's idea) but that has not worked for me yet(barely winning anything). I believe that if a cache were set up in the fashion that they do it, (but without the $$), I would pursue it as well, to be able to say "I was first on this difficult cache". I was involved in a big treasure hunt(interior BC) through the mid 90's. Called the LEGEND OF THUNDERBEAR. It took 4-5 YEARS to solve it. I continued working on it while living on the other end of the country, with my grandfather sending me clues/info. I think it is what turned me onto the really difficult riddles.


I do enjoy the chase, and last sunday my goal was to beat CDMS/FWS/JRAV just cuz they do so well, and lately I haven't been in town long enough to get a chance to research/chase the others. Having the $$ in the cache does add to the excitement and I have travelled around quite a bit chasing little disc's with #'s on them. BUT, sundays sprint was something that was needed to be recorded for TV. The adrenaline of the race was borderline- dangerously toxic.


I intend to conduct "WATCHERS....", even if I can't partake on the 28th(jury is still out on that), I will do it(probably a week late)- JUST CUZ. Want a ride?

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Do we really need to formalize it? People post notes about their intentions on cache pages all the time before they actually solve them. I think we can rely on the honour system, but you could post a photo of the tax receipt if you want, why not?


While we are on the subject of notes on cache pages, why don't we all stick to pertinent and/or exciting details of the chase, and try to avoid the psychoanalysis/carping/mental diarrhea that seems to be the newest trend? Save it for the forums and private email. icon_confused.gif

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The two gentlemen on motorcycles are Americans buying up real estate on Vancouver Island/Gulf Islands and scouting locations for a new resort business investment either here or someplace around Merritt. These two are the ones putting in all the money; one or both of them is based at their waterfront mansion on Beach Drive and is the webmaster for Team KFWB GPS. They have two local partners who head out with trucks and find all the places, plant the tags and paint marks, bury the treasure and report the coordinates.



The American and their partners are using the much-visited and highly-regarded geocaching.com web site and the thriving Vancouver Island geocaching community as a testing ground to work out details of the adventure game that will be the core of their exclusive high-end resort business, and are hoping to get some international publicity while they’re at it. The adventure game is going to use a specialized gps tracking gadget they are developing for use exclusively in this game. It will involve treasure-hunting, eradicating opponents and very high stakes. Forming alliances will be an important part of the game. (Sociological observations are an important part of the current R&D phase.) Instead of having to drive all over the clearcuts and do a lot of calculations, the participants/resort guests will merely pay plenty for the experience. It will be mainly an on-the-ground action sport, with all-terrain vehicle chases and gps technology thrown in and some limited clue-hunting. There is no television series (sorry folks), but each participant will have the option of subscribing to some kind of closed-circuit system for their friends and family to watch their adventure, and will receive a souvenir dvd to take home afterward.


No endangered species will be harmed or illegally imported during the staging of this game. No animal parts will be exported. Charlton Heston will be neither an investor nor a consultant. The only wildlife is on the resort's West Coast Cuisine menu.


Loonie Easter Bunnies (I only get 'em if they're easy and close)


[This message was edited by Loonie Easter Bunnies on December 12, 2002 at 11:32 AM.]

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Since A Watcher’s Point of View won’t be found until after Christmas, I would like to make an additional suggestion that might be considered by those so inclined: Geocachers, hikers and others who spend time outdoors owe a lot to people who work to save green space for the enjoyment of future generations and for the sake of the environment itself. An organization that I am aware of is The Land Conservancy of BC (see their Capital Regional District acquisition projects donation page at http://www.conservancy.bc.ca/Projects/CRD/crd_parks.htm), but I’m sure there are others.


Since I’m not a philanthropist myself, this is not a challenge but just an idea – thanks.


This suggestion is NOT IN ANY WAY intended to distract from the importance of helping people less fortunate than ourselves, especially at this time of year.

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It came to me in a dream!


If it sounds too far-fetched, then I suppose we'll have to go back to the original theories that fall somewhere between the Times-Colonist version where Team K gets enjoyment out of seeing the looks on people faces when they discover the treasure, and the rather less benign version where they get a power kick out of watching everyone scurrying around like lab rats in a maze. Choose your position somewhere between the two!


I wonder how Mr. Gigabyte is making out with his investigation (very early in this forum). ARE YOU STILL THERE MR GIGABYTE?


[This message was edited by Loonie Easter Bunnies on December 12, 2002 at 11:47 PM.]

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Mariner's Log, Stardate 131202.8:


The knave "No Beard" is in retreat, far to the south, on a Class M planet called "Orey Gone". He is aware that starfleet forces are about to apprehend him shortly, and is in hiding. His 4th in command emailed me yesterday, to taunt me. icon_wink.gif


If I ain't sweatin', I ain't cachin. Are we there yet?

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I wish to extend a Merry Christmas to all the cachers I have met in person over the last six weeks:


jrav- Ron and Jessica








Racing Guy

Curious George

Big Kid





that's 15 cachers in 6 weeks, and 13 from the island where I do NOT live...


Perhaps this coming weekend I will meet another half dozen or more!!


A very BIG thank you to THE TEAM for enduring, and continuing to keep us all on our toes. Who could hide a cache for you that would be close to inspiring?


Cheers everybody!


To those who I will meet for the first time very soon, are you ready to ROCK!!!???



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Hmm... I have now had the time to do a few (well, four easy) KFWB caches. I have seen some nice spots, that I did not know were there. I did do a tougher one, just to show that I'm not completely pigheaded. Ok, KFWB, we're waiting to hear from you in here!


Happy New Year all...


If I ain't sweatin', I ain't cachin. Are we there yet?

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I now note that there are at least 30 more KFWB caches to be placed in the near future. Now that we've established that the game IS about the money, I propose that the next topic be: Should I archive my caches, as KFWB seems to want to be the only game in town? I think mine have outlived their usefulness. Ideas?


If I ain't sweatin', I ain't cachin. Are we there yet?

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The opinions stated below are strictly mine, and do not reflect those of anyone else-or do they?


I was STARTING to enjoy the odd KFWB cache, and learning how to project waypoints, and do the calculations, but then I saw that they were planning an overwhelming 52 new caches. This just floored me. Why bother?


Why/how do all the Team KFWB GPS caches impact on yours?


I don't know why the KFWB caches impact us, perhaps you should ask them that, but as to the how, it's quite simple.


1) Even though this guideline applies to virtuals,but should apply to real caches, KFWB has plunked caches less than 60m from existing caches. I thought that was a no-no, as was burying the caches, which they have also done. If they're going to put caches so close to an existing cache, one of them obviously has to go, and if they're so intent on saturating the market, they can have it.


2) People see 80-100 cache names in all in caps (which is another issue-it's rude to type in caps!!) by the same team all in a row, interspersed by the odd 'traditional' cache, they may not see a regular cache posting, if they are so inclined to do one.


3) In sort of reference to my first point, there are going to be fewer places left to hide caches, if KFWB keeps planting at this level, and because I won't put a cache close to someone else's, what will be left?


4) I am unfortunately not independently wealthy, nor do I have inordinate amounts of spare time on my hands to plant 50 caches at once, so I either have to plant ordinary, little caches, and hope that maybe someone will see it in the sea of BOLD TYPE, or just let KFWB have the island, the mainland, and wherever else they'd like.


Oh, and before someone pipes in and says "If you don't like them, don't do them", I'd like to say this:


I like the idea of them I just don't like the quantity and the frequency of them. It seems I don't have a choice of caches to do, because it appears that no one else in the area is planting.I think that they should have their own link, or their own page, or something-perhaps 'KFWB Adventure Cache Site' That way, those that want to do strictly KFWB caches, can have their own little space, and we can have our 'traditional' cache page back.


That's my opinion, and I'm entitled to it. Happy caching.


Found it!


[This message was edited by cacherunner on January 05, 2003 at 04:41 PM.]

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Yellowcode3.. it impacts me thus:


I (and other cachers) have had caches placed extremely close to our existing site(s). As I recall, there was another cacher who used to do this, and he was ridiculed for it, but that is another topic.


I make an assumption here: I believe that the majority of us think that KFWB caches are the way to go. As such, the game should now be structured like an American Game show, such as Survivor, or The Amazing Race:


KFWB sets the rules, and places the caches where they see fit, regardless of whether there is an existing cache there. (Jeremy and Admin will have no say in this.)They will be final arbiter and referee in all competitions. In addition, all other caches will be archived forthwith, in accordance with these guidelines.


This makes competitions fair. All caches placed by the same Team. A level playing field.


It also frees cachers considerably; As I am now charged with maintaining my seven caches, as well as Plantman's twenty, this makes my life much easier. I no longer have to spend that time doing maintenance. (There will soon be a KFWB cache near these anyway, I would assume.)


I can never compete with the value of goods placed in KFWB caches. Mine are just silly and irrelevant beside theirs. As we have established, the location is FAR less important than the contents of the cache, therefore, an old style cache will not be missed in any way.


Guns at Macacaulay will be archived on Sunday January 12th, at 23:00 GMT, in favour of the far superior KFWB cache. I walk it, not just talk it.

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I feel a bit like a dentist. I seem to have hit a nerve with a couple of people with one simple question. I wonder if the tooth decay was well in hand before I pocked it.


Some interesting statements. In re-reading them many of them read like sour grapes. There are also some pretty big assumptions about what others think on the subjects you mention, MarinerBC and Cacherunner.

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Yellowcode3, if I sound negative in any way, then you have taken my post the wrong way. I am deadly serious. This is an opportunity to restructure the game, and make things easier for most cachers. KFWB is now doing Difficulty 1 to Difficulty 5, so there is something for EVERYONE! We should embrace this, archive all the ones that are by now so boring. (remember, you archived some of yours partly for that reason.)


I have the ability to see the silver lining in any cloud, as I hope you know. So let's get with the program, and go big! Then we can go home.


If I ain't sweatin', I ain't cachin. Are we there yet?

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