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Multi cache first stage interesting but ok?


Jayeffel

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I found a  cache today that was only recently published. As I parked the car at the GZ area the CO came to me and said I put that there. I at first wondered what he was referring to but then realized he meant the cache. The hints given were pretty much needed to complete finding the cache.

 

The first stage was interesting in that there was no container of any kind there, what was there was a lettered sign explaining there was a dog lost and information about the dog, whose name was Cache. Then there was a phone number to call about the dog. 

 

I was not sure what was required and the CO was right beside me. He then said once you see the sign and read it you need to call or text that number to get the coordinates for stage 2. I finally was able  to get them from since he was right there. And he only gave a few numbers, not the entire set. 

 

So using those numbers, and using an app that shows coordinates as I moved, I was able to locate stage 2. The second stage could actually just as easily been found just by the clues given.

 

An interesting approach but I am wondering if requiring every cacher seeking that cache to call the CO for coordinates is on the things you cannot do list. I seem to recall seeing some actions are banned, but cannot find them now. I did not say anything to the CO and mention my question in the log.

Edited by Jayeffel
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1 hour ago, Jayeffel said:

An interesting approach but I am wondering if requiring every cacher seeking that cache to call the CO for coordinates is on the things you cannot do list.

 

You can't require the finder to contact the cache owner, that is correct. 

 

Must be accessible 

Caches cannot require geocachers to contact the cache owner or anyone else.

 

If however the response is automated (ie. e-mail with a vacation responder) I am under the impression that that is acceptable—it isn't a person but an automated computer system. No different than typing a keyword into Certitude. 

Edited by Hügh
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There's a huge difference depending on whether the phone number is an auto-responder.  In-person contact isn't allowed. 

 

FYI the phone number aspect of the cache design was not disclosed during the review process.

 

So, what happens when you call or text the phone number?

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1 hour ago, Hügh said:

If however the response is automated (ie. e-mail with a vacation responder) I am under the impression that that is acceptable—it isn't a person but an automated computer system. No different than typing a keyword into Certitude. 

I've found a couple caches like that, where you had to call a particular number to get the automated response that told you the final location. One was at a payphone (remember them?) and you had to call an 800 number from that particular payphone. The system used Caller ID, and wouldn't give the final coordinates if you were calling from any other number.

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There was one like that I did fairly early in my caching career (it's long since archived as its owner left the area). It was called something like A Good Time in Point Clare and at the listed coordinates there was a telephone booth with a sticker below the shelf saying For a good time call xxxx-xxxx. It took me a while to pluck up the courage to call the number, but I thought if it's a local hooker then, well, there's no obligation to indulge in their idea of a good time (I turned off my caller ID just in case), but it turned out to be a recorded message giving the coordinates for the second stage.

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14 hours ago, Jayeffel said:

I was not sure what was required and the CO was right beside me. He then said once you see the sign and read it you need to call or text that number to get the coordinates for stage 2. I finally was able  to get them from since he was right there. And he only gave a few numbers, not the entire set. 

 

"Get them from..." who?  What?

 

No helpful info on the description, no attributes for an idea either, most times I don't keep my phone with me anymore.  I play to get away from it.

But it's just a smiley, and would probably just skip their others JIC there's surprises with them too...

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16 hours ago, Hügh said:

No different than typing a keyword into Certitude. 

 

I tried to make multi-cache where you get final coordinates form the checker. I asked from the HQ whether this is ok and got green light that it is allowed. But then a reviewer said that is it not allowed and then HQ also changed mind about this matter. This seems to some kind of grey area.

 

Edited by arisoft
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2 minutes ago, arisoft said:

I tried to make multi-cache where you get final coordinates form the checker. I asked from the HQ wether this is ok and got green light that it is allowed. But then a reviewer said that is it not allowed and then HQ also changed mind about this matter. This seems to some kind of grey area.

Interesting. I've seen many of those in my area.

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19 hours ago, Keystone said:

There's a huge difference depending on whether the phone number is an auto-responder.  In-person contact isn't allowed. 

 

FYI the phone number aspect of the cache design was not disclosed during the review process.

 

So, what happens when you call or text the phone number?

The call goes to the CO either as phone call or text. I did not call the number though since he was beside me and he gave me the info in person. I do not think this is auto-responder and I did not copy the number to check. 

 

The first stage is a sign with a bulletin like a lost dog poster, it does not say to call that number to get coordinates; it looks like a legit lost dog notice.

 

In all reality, this multi can be found with stages by only using the hints. The second gives it away to a degree . It mentions "tree" and there are maybe a dozen in the park, one gains attention easily the correct tree. 

 

This could be made compliant if the CO had a small container at stage one referring to stage two somehow, with no call required. Or make it a traditional with only one container at stage two, easily done. 

 

I said nothing to him since I had no idea what he and you as reviewer may have communicated to each other.

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16 minutes ago, Jayeffel said:

This could be made compliant if the CO had a small container at stage one referring to stage two somehow, with no call required. Or make it a traditional with only one container at stage two, easily done. 

It could also be perfectly compliant the way it is, as long as the phone number is an auto-responder, and does not require interaction with the CO or other person. If you claim that it isn't compliant now, then you are speculating that the number isn't an auto-responder. But you don't know because you didn't check.

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True, if the CO was not there I would not had a clue the number was to be called. I thought it was a legit Lost Dog notice he used to gain attention. I was looking for about the only container that would fit anywhere and remain hidden, one of the tiny mini's. 

 

As I talked with the CO he then mentioned calling the number or texting it so he could supply the coordinates, he was fingering his phone as we talked. It may very well be an autoresponder but is a cellphone capable of that? I do not know. But the way he was talking about the cache it seemed a phone call to him was required. For me, that would be a tiring practice -- answering the phone all the time.

 

I was not trying to start an argument, merely asking if it was allowed. I figured later cachers may state something  about this in their logs.

 

By the way, this CO is not a new cacher, moved from central Pa to South Central recently I think. I know he lives very close to the park where this cache is located.

Edited by Jayeffel
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"Call the phone number and hear a message" is a time tested design.  I found my first cache like that in 2004.  Later, "Text this number and get an automated response" became popular as well.  Both are fine designs that comply with the listing guidelines.  Until I hear otherwise, I'll assume that the experienced cache hider knows all this.

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I found a multi where each stage had a container with an instruction sheet for calling an automated number. You entered the code for that stage (from the sheet) and it gave you the next stage. There was also a bonus question at each stage on the automated system - not needed for the final but they qualified you for a small collectible. The whole thing was silly fun on a long loop walk. A lot of work by the CO but no interaction with him that wasn't automated, except mailing in for the optional tag.

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I  contacted a recent finder to see how he fared with this cache, he merely saw the clues and used geosense to locate the cache (very easily done).

 

He had not called the number, but after I let him know my concerns he did call and then let me know it was a recording. So we have the answer.

Edited by Jayeffel
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Okay now that we have that settled, I have a techie question. Does the use of auto response in such a situation as this cache -- call a certain number to receive information for the rest of the stages -- requires  a separate phone line/number?  If I set that up on my iPhone for auto response would that not effectively keep me from using the phone for other calls?

 

 

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I'm pretty sure it would require a separate number, unless you set it up so that anyone not on your contacts list goes to voice mail, but everyone on your contacts list still gets through to you. (I'm not sure this is technically feasible for all phone companies/plans.)

Your best bet is probably a VOIP phone number. They're fairly cheap, although not free.

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6 hours ago, TriciaG said:

I'm pretty sure it would require a separate number, unless you set it up so that anyone not on your contacts list goes to voice mail, but everyone on your contacts list still gets through to you. (I'm not sure this is technically feasible for all phone companies/plans.)

Your best bet is probably a VOIP phone number. They're fairly cheap, although not free.

 

You should be able to use Google Voice to set up a new phone #. I've used Google Voice when I created a multicache and it worked well for this purpose and it was free. 

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