Why micros?

[+bluesquirrel94]

I am just curious why people put out so many micros?  The kids love the larger caches with all the swag, and sometimes all we get in a search is micros (or small) and theres not the fun trinkets they look forward to.  As adults, we love the places we get to see because we wouldn't see them otherwise and appreciate the views and historical things.

Just wondering why is all.  I've never places a cache, so just curious if its something to do with placement and maintenance or what?  

We appreciate everyone who does place them and sometime my wife and I want to start placing them, so info here would be great!  Thanks in advnce!

Team bluesquirrel94

[+Jayeffel]

I guess it is the ease of hiding a micro and the usually fairly quick find that appeals. They do help those who are number oriented, they do help new cachers recognize typical hiding spots- and some rather out of thew away at times. 

 

For those enjoying the TBs and swag etc. these are not that welcome. There are places where a cache just needs to be placed by someone but available spots do not allow for a bigger container. 

 

A series along a trail or Rail -to -Trail might have some micros along with other types interspersed to keep you guessing.

 

[+GeoElmo6000]

1 hour ago, bluesquirrel94 said:

I am just curious why people put out so many micros?  The kids love the larger caches with all the swag, and sometimes all we get in a search is micros (or small) and theres not the fun trinkets they look forward to.  As adults, we love the places we get to see because we wouldn't see them otherwise and appreciate the views and historical things.

Just wondering why is all.  I've never places a cache, so just curious if its something to do with placement and maintenance or what?  

We appreciate everyone who does place them and sometime my wife and I want to start placing them, so info here would be great!  Thanks in advnce!

Team bluesquirrel94

 

First, sort of along the lines of "the golden rule", I try to place caches that I'd enjoy finding.  So maybe you can be the agent of change in your area.

 

I'm guessing some of has to do with cost or ease of hiding.  It's easy to pick up a bunch of magnetic key holders or bison tubes inexpensively, where buying lock n locks will be more, and ammo cans most likely more.  And then if one goes missing, now you have to replace it.

[+JL_HSTRE]

There are good places for a geocache that wont accommodate non-micro containers due to lack of ground cover and other hiding places. Also, the area might be flood-prone or otherwise have reason not to be on the ground. (It's hard to hide most non-micros off the ground.)

 

Some people enjoy challenging hides, which usually means micros.

 

Mostly though it is because micros are cheap. Most could be had for only $1 or so per container (and repurposed film cans and pill bottles for free). Contrast that to $10+ for a metal ammo can, often much more. Even the modern plastic ammo cans aren't much cheaper, just easier to find. Good containers are unfortunately also more prone to theft.

 

Not all sizes are created equal either. Preforms tubes (big micros often incorrectly listed as small) are waterproof and very durable. They are not only better than most other Micros in both regards, but also better than most Smalls. Tupperware seals poorly and degrades badly from UV exposure. Latched plastic containers wear out quickly except for Otterboxes, which also don't seem as waterproof in humid environments as you'd think. Decons are notoriously difficult for cachers to close properly (the lids of authentic decons also tend to become brittle easier than many other plastic containers).

[+JL_HSTRE]

1 hour ago, Jayeffel said:

For those enjoying the TBs and swag etc.

 

It amazes me TBs still circulate in caches at all. The theft and loss rate has been extremely high for years.

[+cerberus1]

4 hours ago, bluesquirrel94 said:

I am just curious why people put out so many micros? 

The kids love the larger caches with all the swag, and sometimes all we get in a search is micros (or small) and theres not the fun trinkets they look forward to. 

As adults, we love the places we get to see because we wouldn't see them otherwise and appreciate the views and historical things.

Just wondering why is all.  I've never places a cache, so just curious if its something to do with placement and maintenance or what?  

We appreciate everyone who does place them and sometime my wife and I want to start placing them, so info here would be great! 

 

We had a micro, it's what the township would allow when we asked for permission.  We always brought a selection when asking to place.

Other "micros" we had in a series were inserted into branches, bricks, rubber animals, lumber, etc., and the size of the actual container.

We feel that micros placed today are simply cheap and easy to place, compared to something that'd take a bit of creativity to hide.

Many new people, basic members mostly, start with 1.5/1.5 micros as that's most available.  They'd probably place the same.

When we started, micros were mostly bison tubes.  Lately they seem to be pill bottles. Some splurge for bottle preforms.

I agree that larger caches kids enjoyed, and most our regular hides were ammo cans filled so kids could find cool stuff.   

By around '10 we noticed they'd be empty by maintenance, "trade" somehow replaced by take, pencils and sharpeners too. 

 - That may be another reason micros are now popular by hiders.  That "why should I pay to supply strangers with stuff" thing...

But a micro, like any other cache or cache type, can bring you to that unique area with a great view.  Our favorite hider uses pill bottles.   

 

[+cerberus1]

4 hours ago, Jayeffel said:

For those enjoying the TBs and swag etc. these are not that welcome.

 

We know a few COs that hide micros because they don't want to be involved in the drama with trackables...    

[+CheekyBrit]

Another point I didn't see yet is that the smaller it is, the easier it is to hide. One of my large containers has been muggled and needed maintenance/replacing well over 10 times. Occasionally a regular size goes missing, but small and micro for the most part are impervious to the standard issue muggle. As GeoElmo6000 mentioned, I have been trying to be an 'agent for change' in my area, hiding rare D/Ts, non traditional types, and rare attributes like wireless beacon, bonus cache, gadget cache, challenge, tree climbing, and climbing equipment.

[+niraD]

6 hours ago, bluesquirrel94 said:

I am just curious why people put out so many micros?

In many urban/suburban locations, micros are simply what survive. Keep in mind that it isn't just how well camouflaged the cache is when it is in its hiding place. Geocachers have to be able to search for, retrieve, and replace the cache without drawing undue attention to it.

 

One pattern I've seen play out multiple times is that an urban/suburban cache location will host a series of short-lived caches. Some owners might replace a small size (or even regular size) container once or twice, but eventually they give up and archive the listing. Then someone hides a micro-cache (or even a puzzle micro-cache) and that's what survives. And the caches you see on the web site today are the ones that have survived.

 

Another factor is that many cache owners are no longer interested in trade items or trackables. A single ammo can with a log book and trade items can fill up a cache owner's daypack. Or you can carry a few preforms, and have room left over for extra water, some snacks, etc.

 

Plus all the reasons that have already been mentioned in this thread, of course.

[+barefootjeff]

In my oddball region (the New South Wales Central Coast in Australia), micros are very much a minority at about 24% of caches. There are currently 123 micro, 220 small,133 regular, 16 large and 23 other. In the southern part of the region (the former Gosford City LGA), micros are even rarer at about 18% of caches. Part of this might be the standard set by the caching pioneers here in the first decade of the game, part of it might be the low-cost availability on the supermarket shelves of the Sistema range of sealed containers with hinged latches that make good long-lasting cache containers, and part might be the lay of the land with plenty of non-urban public open spaces with lots of hiding places for larger containers under rock ledges and in wind-eroded caves.

 

For my own active hides, 24 are smalls, 21 are regulars and 1 is listed as other (a micro-sized log container in a regular-sized outer object). These are my three most recent hides:

 

 

In locations like these, a micro wouldn't really work as it'd be either too hard to find or too likely to be dropped and lost when someone did find it. Hides like these don't attract many finders these days, though, as they mostly prefer the rarer P&G micros. Those three of mine have had, left to right, 2, 3 and 6 finds whereas a nearby guard-rail MKH placed at around the same time has had 35 finds.

[+JL_HSTRE]

1 hour ago, niraD said:

A single ammo can with a log book and trade items can fill up a cache owner's daypack. Or you can carry a few preforms, and have room left over for extra water, some snacks, etc.

 

Indeed, why hide 1 ammo can when you can hide 5 preforms?

 

I don't mean that rhetorically. It's a serious philosophical question.

 

What's the objective? Are there five specific points of interest on this hypothetical trail, or is the trail as a whole the attraction?

 

Is it better to have 5 performs with 50 finds each but less than 5 Favorites and mostly TFTC logs? Or 1 ammo can with 20 finds but 10 Favorites and logs that are mostly longer than a sentence?

 

Probably the answer is 1 ammo can and 2-4 preforms. The ammo can is certainly going to be the difference for whether you bring me to the trail: my minimum baseline for querying non-local Traditional caches is Regular/Large or 10+ Favorites.

 

 

[+niraD]

18 minutes ago, JL_HSTRE said:

Probably the answer is 1 ammo can and 2-4 preforms.

Only if you value the ability to trade trinkets or move trackables. How many cache owners do? How many geocachers do?

 

As cerberus1 pointed out, there are cache owners who hide micros because that's the only way to avoid the drama surrounding trackables. And either trade items will vanish because "trade up or trade even" is dead, or they'll sit there forever because the few oldtimers who find the cache no longer bother trading, or carrying trade items. So what value does a regular size container have for most cache owners?

[+barefootjeff]

1 hour ago, niraD said:

So what value does a regular size container have for most cache owners?

 

For me, it allows me to use a good-sized logbook and makes the cache easier to find if the hiding place suits that size of container. For example, this 1.5 litre cash box is a good fit for the honeycombed shelf in the roof of the cave where it lives and has plenty of room for the logbook, pencil, sharpener and information card.

 

 

Being in a national park, swag and trackables aren't allowed anyway so that wasn't a consideration for this cache. It was just a good fit for the location. In the three years it's been there, it's gotten 3 FPs from 16 finds.

Edited June 8, 2022 by barefootjeff

[+MNTA]

To me one of the great things about caching is different things draw different people. One day your kids will get older and not be excited about what lies inside. Besides about half the swag in my area seems to be moldy or smelly, tons of rain and if not properly sealed ewwwwww. Don't get me started with folks leaving candy. Seriously?

I have one ammo can put it in a remote area don't expect tons of finders, positive feedback thus far. Did not include any toys or trinkets just not my thing but if folks wish to leave great.

 

For urban hides they are all nanos or micros. Anything larger seems to always go missing plus the locations below would not support bigger containers.

1) A flat magnet on the bottom of a statue foot in a community park. Tons of favorite points and positive logs including folks with kids. Unfortunately just archived as I moved out of town. You need special permission for this container btw.

2) Fake screw in a power line park on one of the towers. Super difficult but kids seem to always be the ones to find before their parents. More at their eye level.

3) Plain old nano on the bottom of a dog waste bag dispenser. Small little neighborhood park. I like this because of the numerous first time finder or very new cachers I've seemed to attract. 

[+barefootjeff]

1 hour ago, JL_HSTRE said:

Indeed, why hide 1 ammo can when you can hide 5 preforms?

 

I don't mean that rhetorically. It's a serious philosophical question.

 

What's the objective? Are there five specific points of interest on this hypothetical trail, or is the trail as a whole the attraction?

 

Is it better to have 5 performs with 50 finds each but less than 5 Favorites and mostly TFTC logs? Or 1 ammo can with 20 finds but 10 Favorites and logs that are mostly longer than a sentence?

 

That's an interesting question and something I've been pondering for a while. There are two caches near here with similar themes (a map of locations to visit to get clues to a hidden treasure) but with quite different implementations. GC9M6X5, published in January, is a multi with four physical waypoints (flat rocks with clues painted on the underside and hidden in honeycombed caves) leading to the regular-sized final in a cliff-face fissure, and GC9M460, a mystery bonus cache published in February with ten micro MKH guard-rail/signpost traditionals providing the code words for revealing the final's location (a large urban guard-rail hide).

 

 

The two caches are about 30km apart on either side of the Hawkesbury River so will have a similar catchment area of potential finders.

 

 

The multi is a ten minute drive from the M1 motorway's Kariong interchange and is a terrain 3.5 walk/scramble of about 900 metres to visit all the waypoints and final. The traditionals-plus-bonus series is about a 60km loop drive, with each of the caches, including the final, a  terrain 1.5 park-and-grab with minimal walking needed. The other big difference is that a finder of the multi walks away with one smiley whereas someone who completes the traditionals+bonus series gets eleven smileys.

 

The community's verdict is:

• GC9M6X5 multi - 3 finds with 2 FPs in five months
• GC9M460 bonus cache - 18 finds with 10 FPs in four months.

[+MNTA]

33 minutes ago, barefootjeff said:

The multi is a ten minute drive from the M1 motorway's Kariong interchange and is a terrain 3.5 walk/scramble of about 900 metres to visit all the waypoints and final. The traditionals-plus-bonus series is about a 60km loop drive, with each of the caches, including the final, a  terrain 1.5 park-and-grab with minimal walking needed. The other big difference is that a finder of the multi walks away with one smiley whereas someone who completes the traditionals+bonus series gets eleven smileys.

 

The community's verdict is:

• GC9M6X5 multi - 3 finds with 2 FPs in five months
• GC9M460 bonus cache - 18 finds with 10 FPs in four months.

 

For me specially initially I was never a huge fan of multis. The uncertainty of where the final may be might be my reason. You don't know how to budget time. I have finite amount of time before I need to be somewhere else as an example. Or going to a place I don't wish to go. But It kind of is a numbers thing as well. Eventually I'll get around to all the nearby multis just not high on my priority list. I was for a time being addicted to a "Phone Booth Multi" series, that had me crisscrossing the area even going 300 miles north then 300 miles south. I rarely did one in a day but work at many over time. Alas most of the phones vanished along with the caches.

[+eigengott]

17 hours ago, bluesquirrel94 said:

I am just curious why people put out so many micros?

 

Because they can.

Because a micro is easier to hide than a larger box.

Because a micro container (usually) is cheaper than a larger one.

 

I once owned a micro cache. I chose that size for easy hiding under a city bench. With my knowledge today I would place at least a small at the same location, thinking hard first, if a regular can be fitted.

[+JL_HSTRE]

7 hours ago, niraD said:

So what value does a regular size container have for most cache owners?

 

As a seeker, I no longer value regular containers for trackables or swag because I no longer participate in either.

 

Instead I value them being easy to find, most likely to be waterproof, and containing a notebook log in a ziplock rather than a strip of paper that I have to pry out and hope it's neither full nor soaked.

 

You might say micros are often easy to find. That is only true if you're not half-blind. I've DNF'd entirely too many GRIMs that weren't missing. Micros tucked into the V of a palm tree are my bane. I usually walk away from shrub hunts because of how long even the "easy" ones take me to find. Also, micros are spammed in many areas so none of them stand out, and they are so often listed as Small as to devalue that size for me.

[+Goldenwattle]

8 hours ago, JL_HSTRE said:

 

Indeed, why hide 1 ammo can when you can hide 5 preforms?

 

I don't mean that rhetorically. It's a serious philosophical question.

 

What's the objective? Are there five specific points of interest on this hypothetical trail, or is the trail as a whole the attraction?

 

Is it better to have 5 performs with 50 finds each but less than 5 Favorites and mostly TFTC logs? Or 1 ammo can with 20 finds but 10 Favorites and logs that are mostly longer than a sentence?

 

Probably the answer is 1 ammo can and 2-4 preforms. The ammo can is certainly going to be the difference for whether you bring me to the trail: my minimum baseline for querying non-local Traditional caches is Regular/Large or 10+ Favorites.

 

 

1 ammo tin is better. Quality over quantity.

[+Goldenwattle]

5 hours ago, MNTA said:

 

For me specially initially I was never a huge fan of multis. The uncertainty of where the final may be might be my reason. You don't know how to budget time.

I have three multies and two of them I give the approximate distance to walk; 5kms & 3.5kms. I also say it's a fairly flat walk; although the finder should be able to guess that, being as it's in a flattish area. The third one can mostly be driven, and so I didn't bother doing this with it, and it's part of a series and so logically wouldn't be far from the others. However, maybe I should consider if I should give more information on distance. I don't mind multies, but I wish all the COs would give the distance to be walked, or driven (doing one at present that goes from Canberra to Brisbane, and plan in the near future, to do one that crosses Australia), so others can work out if they have time that day to do it, or need a few weeks.

[+Goldenwattle]

I do my best to avoid placing a micro cache, and refuse to place a nano. I have placed micros, but only after looking and failing to find a safe place for a small. I considered one place where I wouldn't have minded placing a cache, but as I couldn't even find a safe place for a micro, I ditched the idea rather than place a horrid nano . I do feel a bit of a failure though placing any cache smaller than a small.

 

Many micros are placed, not that there isn't a place for at least a small, but the owner goes for the cheapest option, or lacks imagination for a better hide for a small. I have found nanos, where looking around I see several hides where a small could be hidden. Lazy CO; just stick a nano there without thought and they have another cache.

[+barefootjeff]

4 minutes ago, Goldenwattle said:

I don't mind multies, but I wish all the COs would give the distance to be walked, or driven (doing one at present that goes from Canberra to Brisbane, and plan in the near future, to do one that crosses Australia), so others can work out if they have time that day to do it, or need a few weeks.

 

On all my multis, in fact all my caches, I use one of the three distance attributes (<1km, 1-10km or >10km), and also the time attributes (less than or greater than an hour) unless it's likely to take pretty close to an hour (the multi I mentioned earlier falls into that category and is also <1km). Usually all of my waypoints are visible too so that, along with the D/T rating, should give a pretty good indication of what's involved, but only if people read the description before they set out. One of the three finders on that multi said in their log that they didn't and had to phone a friend for help. I guess cachers these days just want something where they don't have to read anything but the hint and don't have to think, just jump out of the car, find the micro in the usual place, sign the log, claim the smiley and go on to the next one.

 

The disconnect we have here now is that the caches being hidden, at least on this part of the coast, aren't what the cachers want to find.

[+niraD]

46 minutes ago, Goldenwattle said:

I have found nanos, where looking around I see several hides where a small could be hidden.

Keep in mind that it isn't just how well the cache is hidden in its hiding spot. Geocachers have to be able to find, retrieve, and replace the cache without drawing undue attention to it. I've found a number of small and regular caches that were very well camouflaged in their hiding spots, but they were too big to retrieve and replace without being obvious to anyone around. They didn't last long.

[+L0ne.R]

[+bluesquirrel94]

I really appreciate all the info from everyone!  I hadn't realized a lot of these points, so I am glad I asked and got great feedback.  Thank you all!

[+Lostboy1966]

On 6/7/2022 at 3:43 PM, cerberus1 said:

I agree that larger caches kids enjoyed, and most our regular hides were ammo cans filled so kids could find cool stuff.   

By around '10 we noticed they'd be empty by maintenance, "trade" somehow replaced by take, pencils and sharpeners too.

I had a cache that started with one container that had a spool of paracord going up into the trees, attached at the other end of the line to the actual log container/swag. The first container had weights in it to keep the second container up in the trees. There was a note in the first one saying that you needed to follow the line. Still, someone complained there was no swag (in the first container), and when I archived it I found the counterweights had been taken...who would think that a block of metal was swag, and not have the curiosity to follow a line up into the trees? I also put pencils in every hide I placed, and it is amazing how often they go missing.

[+Goldenwattle]

On 6/8/2022 at 10:36 PM, barefootjeff said:

 

On all my multis, in fact all my caches, I use one of the three distance attributes (<1km, 1-10km or >10km)

There's a big difference between one km and ten kms. That's why I give the actual (approximate) distance. I measure it on a map. That's what I wish all COs would do. Under a km it's fine to say less than a km, but further and I want to know, so I can know if I have time to do it, or even want to do it because of how far it is. 1-10km ranges from I want to to do it, to I don't, so which is it?

[+Goldenwattle]

On 6/8/2022 at 11:12 PM, niraD said:

Keep in mind that it isn't just how well the cache is hidden in its hiding spot. Geocachers have to be able to find, retrieve, and replace the cache without drawing undue attention to it. I've found a number of small and regular caches that were very well camouflaged in their hiding spots, but they were too big to retrieve and replace without being obvious to anyone around. They didn't last long.

Yes, but I was thinking of nanos placed in bushland, with no witnesses about. We have a lot of bushland scattered though my city, but still some place nanos. Or along a quiet country road. Micros shouldn't even be there, as there are places for smalls and bigger. I did mention there was a (urban) spot I wanted to place a cache, but because I couldn't even find a place for a micro, I decided to not put one there at all, rather than place a nasty nano. Nanos need their logs changed regularly, the logs are hard to check the signatures on, fiddly for the finder to extract and return the log. My experience of finding nanos is that a high percentage of the people who like placing nanos, have no plan to rush to replace a full log, hoping someone else will do that for them (if they care at all), and don't plan to check the log. They are place the cache and forget it people, so they pop a nano up (cheap, easy and done with), and forget it.

[+niraD]

1 hour ago, Goldenwattle said:

Micros shouldn't even be there, as there are places for smalls and bigger.

I disagree. One of my Favorites was a micro in the woods. Sure, there were places where a small (or larger) could have been hidden nearby, but that specific location could support only a micro, and the point of the cache was that specific location.

[+barefootjeff]

2 hours ago, Goldenwattle said:

There's a big difference between one km and ten kms. That's why I give the actual (approximate) distance. I measure it on a map. That's what I wish all COs would do. Under a km it's fine to say less than a km, but further and I want to know, so I can know if I have time to do it, or even want to do it because of how far it is. 1-10km ranges from I want to to do it, to I don't, so which is it?

 

I probably go a bit overboard in my descriptions with route information, particularly if it's a longer hike. For example:

 

All the waypoints and final for this cache are close to the Great North Walk as it makes its way north from the Mooney Mooney Creek bridge on the Old Pacific Highway, although a bit of scrambling up and down the embankment is required in places. While the track is mostly level and easy walking, it is a LONG hike (about 6km each way). Allow at least three or four hours to complete this cache and take plenty of water with you.

 

The biggest problem is getting people to read the description before they set out.

[+Goldenwattle]

I found a nano on this today. The log is very full. I suspect this is a forgotten cache, with only one OM log, way back in 2014. Not untypical maintenance for nanos.

 

 

(Fortunately there was a hint.)

Edited June 12, 2022 by Goldenwattle

[+tomfuller & Quill]

I hide what I like to find.  I have never hidden a micro even though I have found many. My smallest cache hide is a 12 ounce plastic screw top container. Most of my hides are 16 ounce plastic screw top containers. I do have a few ammocans out including one that more than 1000 vehicles drive by within 80 feet every day.  My largest cache would hold about 4 ammo cans. It is just inside a lava field and is about a 0.7 mile walk from the parking spot.  Its name is The Big Box.  I also have seven near lookout towers in Oregon.

I carry a bag with about 10 16 ounce containers and lids in my 2002 RAV4 in case I find a good place to put a new cache or replace one of mine that is cracked or missing.

[+colleda]

16 hours ago, Goldenwattle said:

I found a nano on this today. The log is very full. I suspect this is a forgotten cache, with only one OM log, way back in 2014. Not untypical maintenance for nanos.

 

 

(Fortunately there was a hint.)

I DNF'd that one a few years ago. Near Narrabri right? There were quite a few in Narrabri but last time I looked most had gone bye bye.

[+Goldenwattle]

3 hours ago, colleda said:

I DNF'd that one a few years ago. Near Narrabri right? There were quite a few in Narrabri but last time I looked most had gone bye bye.

It's at S 30° 36.051 E 149° 57.426.

South of Narrabri, near Baan Baa. (Can't get rid of the bold.) There is a photograph hint, so blurry I couldn't work out what it was, until I was at the bus, wandering around the bus, thinking what the heck is this photograph of, and then I spotted it. Very 'abstract'!

[+Goldenwattle]

3 hours ago, colleda said:

There were quite a few in Narrabri but last time I looked most had gone bye bye.

Only one now, plus one of those 'stupid' Makku Mob ones, which single travellers, if I understand correctly, can't do by themselves.

[fendmar]

Simplicity and convenience.

[+majordude]

I live in SoCal the all I have found are Altiods tins, bison tubes, and film canisters.

[+EthisEthat]

I hide all sizes, but they are mostly micros for a couple of reasons.

 

1. Easier to hide, a ammo can won't last long in the middle of a city

2. Cost, you can get bison tubes for $1. Mind you, the one (and only) large cache I have hidden was a $3 20L water holding container I got at the Greenshed. 

3. Attachment, you can attach micros and smalls a lot easier (bison and mega bison) with things like zipties or wire so they don't go missing. Larger caches require a bike lock or a chain if you want to attach them so they don't get muggled (important to keep in mind that larger containers are more expensive so more of a loss if they go missing).

4. Size, I can easily attach a bison tube to my bike for easy access if I find a spot I like, ammo cans, not so much. (I cache on a bike so lugging around a ammo can is a lot of effort)

5. Difficulty, some hiders want to make REALLY difficult caches, and a large isn't the best at hiding (on the flipside of this, a field puzzle in a regular or large is great fun)

[+Harry Dolphin]

What else would you hide here?  26% favorites!  It was a fake bolt.

[+kunarion]

1 hour ago, Harry Dolphin said:

What else would you hide here?  26% favorites!  It was a fake bolt.

 

Yeah.  I've had a lot of trouble fitting an ammo box into a fake bolt.  

[+niraD]

1 hour ago, kunarion said:

Yeah.  I've had a lot of trouble fitting an ammo box into a fake bolt.  

[+barefootjeff]

I'm starting to think it comes down to the sort of caches players want to look for these days. These are the nine caches published around my area so far this year, in order of publication:

 

 GC Code      Published      Type             D        T        Size         Finds       FPs

GC9MFKJ     January       Puzzle           3.5     2.5      Small          10           7

GC9M40Z     January     AL Bonus         2       1.5      Micro          34           2

GC9M6X5     January        Multi              3       3.5     Regular         3            2

GC92TXE      February  Traditional         2        1.5     Micro         18            1

GC9MFKJ      March      Challenge         4         4        Small           1            1

GC9QR5W       April       Traditional       1.5     3.5     Regular         1            1

GC8P7PD        April       Traditional       1.5     1.5      Micro          16           0

GC9TW3Y        May       Traditional       1.5     2.5      Small           4            3

GC91D9H        July        Challenge         4         5        Micro           2            2

 

It seems the bigger the container, the fewer the finds. The only micro that isn't already well into double-digit finds is the 4/5 challenge cache that was published just two days ago, whereas the only non-micro that's just scraped into double digits is the small published in early January. The most telling stat, though, is the AL Bonus micro (actually a guard rail nano) which is streets ahead of the rest.

 

My take from this is if you want to hide a cache that'll need more than one hand to count its finds on, best make it an urban micro.

[+Goldenwattle]

5 hours ago, barefootjeff said:

I'm starting to think it comes down to the sort of caches players want to look for these days. These are the nine caches published around my area so far this year, in order of publication:

 

 GC Code      Published      Type             D        T        Size         Finds       FPs

GC9MFKJ     January       Puzzle           3.5     2.5      Small          10           7

GC9M40Z     January     AL Bonus         2       1.5      Micro          34           2

GC9M6X5     January        Multi              3       3.5     Regular         3            2

GC92TXE      February  Traditional         2        1.5     Micro         18            1

GC9MFKJ      March      Challenge         4         4        Small           1            1

GC9QR5W       April       Traditional       1.5     3.5     Regular         1            1

GC8P7PD        April       Traditional       1.5     1.5      Micro          16           0

GC9TW3Y        May       Traditional       1.5     2.5      Small           4            3

GC91D9H        July        Challenge         4         5        Micro           2            2

 

It seems the bigger the container, the fewer the finds. The only micro that isn't already well into double-digit finds is the 4/5 challenge cache that was published just two days ago, whereas the only non-micro that's just scraped into double digits is the small published in early January. The most telling stat, though, is the AL Bonus micro (actually a guard rail nano) which is streets ahead of the rest.

 

My take from this is if you want to hide a cache that'll need more than one hand to count its finds on, best make it an urban micro.

Likely the larger caches are in more remote areas and harder to get to. Personally, if travelling and there's more caches than I can find, I ignore the  micro ones.

[+barefootjeff]

42 minutes ago, Goldenwattle said:

Likely the larger caches are in more remote areas and harder to get to. Personally, if travelling and there's more caches than I can find, I ignore the  micro ones.

 

Not exactly remote. One of the regulars (GC9M6X5) is a 15 minute drive from the M1 Kariong interchange and less than a 1km return hike from the parking waypoint, with the 5-stage multi taking about an hour to complete. It had two finders come up from Sydney the day after publication in January and one other, a local, in March. The other regular, a traditional, is about 700 metres along the Great North Walk from the parking waypoint in Somersby (about a 5 minute drive from the M1 Somersby interchange) followed by about a hundred metres of off-track scrambling. That one, published in early April, took me a leisurely two hours to complete but a fair bit of that time was stopping to take photos at the waterfalls and other points of interest, yet three months on I'm still its only finder in spite of a good spell of nice sunny weather throughout June. I suspect its owner is wondering why he bothered creating it.

Edited July 9, 2022 by barefootjeff

[+Goldenwattle]

3 hours ago, barefootjeff said:

5-stage multi taking about an hour to complete

Multies don't get many finders. I have three multies and finds are generally months apart.

[+barefootjeff]

8 hours ago, Goldenwattle said:

Multies don't get many finders. I have three multies and finds are generally months apart.

 

My first multi, published in 2013 and which also took about an hour to complete, got 13 finds in its first six months. My second one, published a year later, had 20 finds in that time. No, it's a different audience now that doesn't want anything more than a few steps from the car to the micro in the guard rail or tucked behind the sign. It's all about the quick smiley now, or in the case of the AL plus bonus, the quick six smileys.

[+Goldenwattle]

18 minutes ago, barefootjeff said:

No, it's a different audience now that doesn't want anything more than a few steps from the car to the micro in the guard rail or tucked behind the sign. It's all about the quick smiley now, or in the case of the AL plus bonus, the quick six smileys.

That's possibly true, but it's not about the cache being a micro; it's about it being convenient. When beginners see a bigger, better cache, they tend to say things like, 'Wow, best cache yet'. It's not that they don't appreciate better caches, it's that many caches now, put out by other fairly new cachers in easy to get to places, and have micros marked as small (as I keep repeating, likely because their isn't a nano rating), and beginners feed beginners the concept of geocaching. Beginners don't even know that caches can be better.

[+barefootjeff]

11 minutes ago, Goldenwattle said:

That's possibly true, but it's not about the cache being a micro; it's about it being convenient. When beginners see a bigger, better cache, they tend to say things like, 'Wow, best cache yet'. It's not that they don't appreciate better caches, it's that many caches now, put out by other fairly new cachers in easy to get to places, and have micros marked as small (as I keep repeating, likely because their isn't a nano rating), and beginners feed beginners the concept of geocaching. Beginners don't even know that caches can be better.

 

It isn't really about beginners, at least not in these parts. Of the 34 finders that AL bonus cache has had since its publication in January, 28 have over 1000 finds, 13 have over 5000 finds and none have fewer than 100 finds. No, it's the very experienced cachers who are voting with their feet.

 

Sure, it's not a direct preference for micros over anything larger, it's just that the roadside locations, where people these days want to do their caching, generally can't support anything bigger than a micro without it fast being muggled.

[+Goldenwattle]

4 minutes ago, barefootjeff said:

Sure, it's not a direct preference for micros over anything larger, it's just that the roadside locations, where people these days want to do their caching, generally can't support anything bigger than a micro without it fast being muggled.

Around the Canberra area that isn't true (and it's less vegetated than your area). There are plenty (away from urban areas) of roadside places for bigger caches. No, it people who put them out who are lazy. They don't think about it enough; just shove a micro, or worse, a nano in bushland. Cheaper and it can go almost anywhere. Little consideration needed. Quantity over quality. The more the better. Lots of pill bottles and other cheap caches. Sprinkle, sprinkle, sprinkle, oh joy, look at how many I have managed to put out in a day.

And then beginners think that's the norm, and they do the same, showing other beginners how it's done.

Edited July 9, 2022 by Goldenwattle

[+barefootjeff]

13 minutes ago, Goldenwattle said:

Around the Canberra area that isn't true (and it's less vegetated than your area). There are plenty (away from urban areas) of roadside places for bigger caches. No, it people who put them out who are lazy. They don't think about it enough; just shove a micro, or worse, a nano in bushland. Cheaper and it can go almost anywhere. Little consideration needed. Quantity over quality. The more the better. Lots of pill bottles and other cheap caches. Sprinkle, sprinkle, sprinkle, oh joy, look at how many I have managed to put out in a day.

And then beginners think that's the norm, and they do the same, showing other beginners how it's done.

 

Yeah, it's a quite different scenario here. The nine new caches around here this year were placed by six different hiders, three placing two caches and the other three placing one. The four micros (a guard rail nano, a bison tube on a fence, an MKH and a preform in a mangrove tree) are in places where anything much bigger would be difficult to conceal or attach to its support.

Edited July 9, 2022 by barefootjeff