What would it take to have WEBCAM at a MEGA OR GIGA event?

[+The Flying Dutchmen]

Webcams are hard to come by. Cachers try to get as many icons in a single day, especially during MEGA or GIGA events. During these events we see special icons, such as discover Signal, reverse cache.

 

What would it take to have an "event webcam" that is active during the event only?

Wouldn't it be exciting to have an "event cam" just for the day?

[+Bear and Ragged]

Nice idea, but two items from the guidelines come to mind:

 

Long term

• Hide your cache to have a long life.
• Temporary caches intended to stay active for fewer than three months will not be published.

 

"When you go to hide a geocache, think of the reason you are bringing people to that spot. If the only reason is for the geocache, then find a better spot."

briansnat, Charter Member

 

And the fact GC are not publishing Web Cam Caches (at the moment)

[+MartyBartfast]

2 hours ago, Bear and Ragged said:

Nice idea, but two items from the guidelines come to mind:

But then again Groundspeak wrote the rules, they can rewrite/bend/ignore them if they want (and there's enough demand), these come to mind:

• Reinvented the Locationless idea to release 2 new Locationless "caches".
• Reinstated (after a fashion) Virtuals.
• Reinstated a cache which had been archived for ~6 years after going missing.

They already allow Mega Events to publish Lab caches with more than 5 stages.

 

I think there's a significant demand for Webcam caches to come back in some form but they carry with them problems, not least of which is the availability of the camera being in a 3rd party's hands; perhaps allowing Webcams to be published aligned to Mega/Gigas could be one way to do it.

[+JL_HSTRE]

I think Webcams are better off staying retired, unless Groundspeak wants to set up a special owned and hosted by themselves or a partner.

 

1. There are a lot of problems with people improperly logging webcams, including the use of selfies.

 

2. There are more people concerned about online privacy now than two decades ago. It's harder to use a stand-in for a Webcam compared to a Virtual.

 

3. Of the new Locationless caches that were introduced, one is specifically tied to Groundspeak (Signal the Frog) and the other probably only happened because of the pandemic as an alternative to CITO events. And the improper logs on both have been numerous.

 

4. Virtuals still have a role in geocaching because there are places where physical caches aren't allowed or simply aren't practical. That said, I wonder how long Virtual Rewards will continue. Adventure Labs seem to make Virtuals, and most Wherigos, obsolescent. I would say roughly a quarter of the Virtual Rewards were also wasted - either placed somewhere that physical caches already existed or not used at all.

 

In contrast, Webcam caches have been obsolescent for years. Their popularity is mostly their rarity. When they were introduced two decades ago there were no smartphones. Webcams were both a form of selfie and required coordinating with someone at a computer. Nowadays the vast majority of us can go to the location, snap an actual selfie with our smartphone, and pull up the webcam on said smartphone where we can see ourselves and save a screenshot.

[+cerberus1]

11 hours ago, The Flying Dutchmen said:

Webcams are hard to come by. Cachers try to get as many icons in a single day, especially during MEGA or GIGA events. During these events we see special icons, such as discover Signal, reverse cache.

What would it take to have an "event webcam" that is active during the event only?

Wouldn't it be exciting to have an "event cam" just for the day?

No...

Good interpersonal communications skills though.   

There were enough people upset that they were missing an icon, that Groundspeak decided to recreate a version of "Locationless" for them.

 - It was nothing like the originals.   But folks got their icon...

Rumors of a cache long gone, brought back just for a smiley (and that icon...), has been around a while now too.

When "special icons" and a game-like structure are made for this outdoor hobby, I feel like any game there are winners and losers.

I realize that this is the age of "everyone gets a trophy".  Guess I'd just hope that "trophies" weren't given too conveniently...

[+Hügh]

5 hours ago, JL_HSTRE said:

I think Webcams are better off staying retired, unless Groundspeak wants to set up a special owned and hosted by themselves or a partner.

 

I think it would be neat if the photo booth at HQ's office could become a webcam, with the requirement that you must post a photo of the photo-strip it prints out with your log (or, the back of it if you do not want to include your face.) People are encouraged to "sign" the logbook with their photos, after all! (apologies to k4p12 for stealing their photo.)

 

Then again, HQ already has their special icon... and there are at least two webcams within driving distance of HQ... so maybe not...

Edited May 14, 2022 by Hügh

[+baer2006]

15 hours ago, The Flying Dutchmen said:

Webcams are hard to come by. Cachers try to get as many icons in a single day, especially during MEGA or GIGA events. During these events we see special icons, such as discover Signal, reverse cache.

 

What would it take to have an "event webcam" that is active during the event only?

Wouldn't it be exciting to have an "event cam" just for the day?

You want lots of icons on a single day? Then put some effort into it! If the nearest Webcam to a MEGA is quite far away, plan a long detour. If necessary, leave home at 4 am. Go in a team, so that you can take turns with driving. And if there is really no Webcam, which can be reached, then so be it. Try it at another MEGA/GIGA, which fits better. Getting 13/15/umpteen icons on a single day is a challenge. Why should it be handed to you on a silver platter?

[+barefootjeff]

8 hours ago, JL_HSTRE said:

4. Virtuals still have a role in geocaching because there are places where physical caches aren't allowed or simply aren't practical. That said, I wonder how long Virtual Rewards will continue. Adventure Labs seem to make Virtuals, and most Wherigos, obsolescent. I would say roughly a quarter of the Virtual Rewards were also wasted - either placed somewhere that physical caches already existed or not used at all.

 

I hope there'll be more virtual reward opportunities as ALs are a lot more restrictive. I had a spot in a national park I was going to use for a virtual had I got one, and I considered doing an AL there but it was too difficult, with the need for good mobile data access, a map that doesn't show any of the walking tracks making navigation difficult, the character limits in both the overall and waypoing descriptions and the problem of coming up with unambiguous questions in places with no signage. I received another AL credit a month ago but have yet to find anywhere worthy of using it that doesn't bump up against one or more of the platform's restrictions. The places where there are no physical caches also tend to be places where there's no phone coverage and the AL's map shows just a blank space.

 

Getting back on topic, I think the OP's suggestion has some merit. Having limited-duration webcam caches at megas is something that could be easily set up these days and would likely avoid the problems that led to their grandfathering. In many parts of the world, there are few if any of the old webcams left - Australia has four, one in Victoria and three in South Australia, and New Zealand has just one - so having them at megas would allow many cachers the opportunity to log one without having to travel enormous distances.

[+lee737]

The lure of the webcam is its rarity, a bit like the old virtuals. I still like virtuals, but now they don't have that same plan-a-roadtrip-around-them coolness that they used to have. A webcam at an event would be what, a set up webcam that you pose in front of and get a photo? Sounds a bit like big-game hunting at the zoo to me.

[+barefootjeff]

52 minutes ago, lee737 said:

The lure of the webcam is its rarity, a bit like the old virtuals. I still like virtuals, but now they don't have that same plan-a-roadtrip-around-them coolness that they used to have.

 

For me they do, because there's only been a handful of new ones that didn't involve a roadtrip to get to. So far with the 3.0 release, all the ones published in New South Wales have been south of Sydney Harbour, with most of those being either on the south coast or in the south-west of the state. I'd be looking at an overnight stay if I wanted to do any of those.

 

57 minutes ago, lee737 said:

Sounds a bit like big-game hunting at the zoo to me.

 

Yeah, maybe, but it might still a fun attraction at a mega, particularly when the nearest real webcam cache is thousands of kilometres away (or more).

[+Team Canary]

6 hours ago, barefootjeff said:

For me they do, because there's only been a handful of new ones that didn't involve a roadtrip to get to. So far with the 3.0 release, all the ones published in New South Wales have been south of Sydney Harbour, with most of those being either on the south coast or in the south-west of the state. I'd be looking at an overnight stay if I wanted to do any of those.

Weekends away to find good caches are our reason to plan holidays. 

[+capsai]

I really want to see webcams back in to the game. I would even accept harder publish rules like a wider distance from other webcam caches (e. g. a distance from 10 km or more...)

 

[+JL_HSTRE]

I just did a pair of old webcams on a trip last week and I have another reason why not to bring them back: many webcams are low resolution. The webcams in question were at major college campus, but they were set up to show large outdoor areas like a parking lot or field. In one screenshot of the webcam feed you can barely tell you're looking at people.

 

Edited June 21, 2022 by JL_HSTRE
Typo

[+thebruce0]

On 5/14/2022 at 6:53 PM, lee737 said:

The lure of the webcam is its rarity, a bit like the old virtuals. I still like virtuals, but now they don't have that same plan-a-roadtrip-around-them coolness that they used to have. A webcam at an event would be what, a set up webcam that you pose in front of and get a photo? Sounds a bit like big-game hunting at the zoo to me.

 

I think they were also a little more likely to make a comeback because HQ is embracing more of the 'virtual' style experiences (ie, Adventures), so Virtuals sort of fit right in, just as an actual geocache listing instead of a sidegame that's playing halfsies with our statistics

[+Wet Pancake Touring Club]

For me, webcams are meh. I agree with lee737, a webcam at an event is like big-game hunting at the zoo. As for the general topic of bringing back webcams, I'm more against the idea than for it. The main reason I am against them is the proliferation of highway webcams. I looked up one in Oregon, it is at the top of a pass, on I-5 (freeway). As one finder put in their comments "The hardest part of this was getting back on I5." You have to merge back onto the freeway, and visibility around the corner is not good. If we bring back webcam caches, I fear that we will see explosive growth in webcam caches on the sides of highways, with little to no room to stop.

[+JL_HSTRE]

17 hours ago, Wet Pancake Touring Club said:

The main reason I am against them is the proliferation of highway webcams. I looked up one in Oregon, it is at the top of a pass, on I-5 (freeway). As one finder put in their comments "The hardest part of this was getting back on I5." You have to merge back onto the freeway, and visibility around the corner is not good. If we bring back webcam caches, I fear that we will see explosive growth in webcam caches on the sides of highways, with little to no room to stop.

 

There is a general prohibition against any geocaches on interstate highways, except at designated rest areas and overlooks, because it is illegal to pull off on the side of such highways unless you have an emergency (breakdown, flat tire, etc). This would/should include webcams and other nonphysical caches.

 

The webcam in question seems to be https://coord.info/GC670D and it does not appear from the Google aerial that there is designated pull-off lot there, only a wide shoulder. Laws always overrule grandfathered hides so I don't know why this listing wasn't archived long ago.

[+TriciaG]

23 hours ago, JL_HSTRE said:

 

There is a general prohibition against any geocaches on interstate highways, except at designated rest areas and overlooks, because it is illegal to pull off on the side of such highways unless you have an emergency (breakdown, flat tire, etc). This would/should include webcams and other nonphysical caches.

 

The webcam in question seems to be https://coord.info/GC670D and it does not appear from the Google aerial that there is designated pull-off lot there, only a wide shoulder. Laws always overrule grandfathered hides so I don't know why this listing wasn't archived long ago.

From the entry pics, there's a way to exit off the highway and come at this from the back side, so to speak. None of the cachers of the dozen or so photos I looked at had pulled onto the shoulder; their cars were on the other side of the guard rail.

[+Wet Pancake Touring Club]

Yes JL_HSTRE, that is the webcam cache I was talking about. And, as TriciaG notes, there is a way pull off behind the guardrail, and quite a few do just that. But, because this webcam is located on a corner, you have to know that the pullout is coming, and slow down before you can see it. And what if this happens in winter? It has been noted that on occasion it snows in Oregon. (And I love the picture of the guy in the fog, got to take their word on that one, as the picture is entirely white.) And, when trying to pull back on to the freeway, you have trouble seeing around the corner to know when there is a break in the traffic.

 

While the powers that be have a general prohibition against geocaches on interstate highways, just how far down the list of road types does that extend? US Highways, State Highways, County roads, etc. I took a look at the Idaho Transportation Department webcams. Of the well over 150 webcams on the map, less than a quarter of them are on an interstate highway. I spot checked several of them, and very few had a safe place to stand and be in view of the camera. Allowing webcam caches would open up the field to all of those non-interstate highway webcams. This is the proliferation that I am worried about.

 

On a different note, I noticed that one of the pictures on the aforementioned webcam cache was of the no trespassing sign. These highway webcams are put up by governments, and most will have no trespassing signs. But, there might be one or two cache owners that neglected to mention that in their submission, or neglected to get permission for the geocache at the location. I know that doesn't happen with this crowd, but it is theoretically possible.

 

Unsafe locations and potential trespassing. Just a lot of issues for these kinds of webcams.

 

Now on the other hand, I think it would be interesting to see just how people would log a webcam cache on this camera. https://nationalzoo.si.edu/webcams/lion-cam Permission from the occupants might be difficult to get, and they might have a no tolerance policy.