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A question of protocol...

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Geopiggies wandered off from the geocaching scene a couple of years ago because we got tired of the aggressive 'find more than the next guy' competition that it had become. The camel's back broke when someone who clearly hadn't visited one of our caches claimed it as a find, then became very very aggressive when we removed the log entry.


It just wasn't fun any more.


Fact is, we missed the game, so we figured we'd give it another go. We also thought we'd add a twist to the game to try to give new players a bit of a break, to help them get their 'find' count up by creating the concept of a 'newbie cache'. We said (on caches 60903 and 60907) "you must have less than 20 caches found to log this as a find". We also said "If you're an old hand, you're still absolutely welcome to search for, and log your find, but you must log it as a 'Note', not a 'Find'".


It seemed like a nice friendly way to give new cachers a bit of a leg-up in what can be an uncomfortably competitive game.


Unfortunately, both caches were first-found by an experienced cacher who felt the need to leave a snide comment about the 'no log' rule on one cache, and an "I'll play nice when you let me log it" on the other one.


What is protocol here? Do I just delete the log entries, do I ask the cacher to 'say something nice or say nothing at all', or do I FIDO (forget it and drive on)?


Thanks in advance icon_smile.gif


Geopig DiDi

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I can understand if someone got snitchy. It is a bit of a tricky subject, you are penalising active cahcers in one way, and rewarding not so active cachers in another.

Personally I don't have a problem with it, as I understand what you are trying to do.

But on the other note: Would not even bother attempting this cache for that particular reason. Getting to a cache takes effort, and no reward (find log) can spoil it for some.

It cost's money (big money) to cache actively.

I dont even want to think of how many kms and cost in all the caching I have done in the past year, in excess of 40,000 kms I know that, cost: Aghhh....

As they say you can't please all the people (cachers) all the time, someone will still gripe about it no matter what..

Good Luck with it..


Oink Oink.. icon_wink.gif

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Personally, I was chuffed to find that we're no longer newbies; at least by your definition!


I'd still do these newbie caches if I was in the area or if something about it attracted me; in fact, the same criteria I'd use for _any_ cache!


The bottom line is that it's your cache and you can set the rules, within the GC guidelines. If someone has a problem with it, nobody's forcing them to do the cache.


(Of course, you will get right up the nose of those self-same people who have this _need_ to see ever-larger numbers next to their name by removing possible increments from them!)



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Welcome back, Geopiggies.

Well if you thought it was aggressive when you left you won’t like it now.


As for your past experience with someone claiming a find, who in your view did not find the cache you did the right thing in removing their find. At the time you could have reported any emails you thought improper to geocaching.com.


Re the snide comments, personally I would leave them there as they reflect more on the person who made the comment. I don’t think it is appropriate to ask for anyone to say anything nice about a cache.


The newbie cache concept has been around for a while and it does not really work that well. But it’s your cache and your rules and you have stated them up front so we have no problem with it.


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Hi Geopiggies,


Personally I'm glad to have you back in the game, even if I wasn't around when you were first active... I enjoyed your old caches, and I'm sure I shall enjoy your new offerings...


My observations would be:

- The 'game' is only as competitive as you want it to be, and if you don't want to log finds and only notes, that's fine by me... If you just do it for the enjoyment of the search, then don't pay any attention to those who like to run up their total...

- I think the objections to your latest caches are probably related to the mechanics of the geocaching.com site more than anything else and the fact that even if the cacher goes out of their way to find the cache, they cannot log a find and it therefore remains at the top of their nearest not found list forever...


How about allowing newbies to log 2 finds and experienced cachers to log only one... that would solve the mechanics problem...


p.s. I'm sure you will like Mind Socket when you get to know him - he's a really nice guy and I'm sure he wasn't really trying to be snide... He lives and works within a kilometre of both your new caches (as do I), so the nearest caches problem would have been particularly applicable...


[This message was edited by Leek on April 02, 2003 at 04:57 AM.]

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Hi Geopiggies et al,


I'm surprised at having created such a stir, and I apologise profusely if I've caused offense. As Leek said, my gripe is a minor one with the "mechanics" of having 2 caches on my nearest unfound list (in addition to one other that I helped place and can't log, but that can't be helped on gc.com). I am not at all fussed about my find count (except as a rough indication of how far I've come) or competing in that regard (which is purely up to the individual). I admit my first log on Splendour was a little reactionary and I was nervous about how it would be received. There have been quite a few discussions about the setting of rules and guidelines lately, and it seems there will always be some contention.


I really really really really hope that this has not soured your return to geocaching (clearly it has somewhat, and again I apologise), and I intend to annotate (not edit) my notes on your caches. If you feel compelled to delete them or would like them sanitised, I will understand completely. I did indirectly introduce 2 newbies to the game in the process, so some of your grand plan has rubbed off on me. icon_smile.gif I understand your intentions, and it's unfortunate that the gc.com system doesn't have a facility for flagging caches to not appear on nearest lists.


Anyhoo, welcome back to the game, I'm sorry for making it a less than memorable occasion, and hope to meet you sometime and see more of your caches (I really enjoyed the location for King of the World despite the cache having disappeared).


I'll shut up now, like I probably should have in the first place.


Humbly yours,

- Roger / Mind Socket

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Hi guys, thanks for the feedback. I wasn't aware that this 'nearest not found' thing was such a problem...


Thanks for your comments Roger - much appreciated. Good onya for bringing in the newbies!


Extra bonus thanks to Leek for the log-twice suggestion. It sounds to me like that will make everybody happy, so I'm gonna give that approach a try on these two caches.


Piggies will likely lay another cache or two this weekend. They'll be 'newbie caches', or some variation on the theme, but not sure how I'll 'score' those yet. Watch this space.


Piggy: If you reckon Geocaching is expensive, you should try flying, or scuba, or photography!!! Geocaching is *cheap* <laugh> :-)


Watch 'King of the World' too... As Mind Socket says, it's a great location, It's a location wasted if there's no cache there. I'm sure GeoPiggies will think of something icon_wink.gif ;-)

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OK. 'Return of the Pig-I', and 'Splendor is in the Memories' are now 'Newbie V2.0' caches.


Mindsocket: please convert your note to a find.


Geoswag: Please log the cache a second time


Team Piggy: Go find it! icon_smile.gif


Bear_Left: We altered our definition of newbie - figured that 30 was a better number for the log-twice concept. Hope you don't mind! icon_smile.gif




GeoPig DiDi

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Buhh Bahhh, too far for this little piggy..


I just racked up over 25,000 miles caching since November.

I havin a break on the big uns !



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An interesting thread. Sorry to pipe in late.

I had some second thoughts when I approved the 2 caches with the "newbie only" log stipulation.


I placed a cache once that had 12 or 15 log books in it - one to log in the usual way and the rest for people to take to use in establishing my own cache. At the time I was going to stipulate that if whoever took a log book didn't post their own cache (for me to find) within 45 days I'd delete their smilie. Well, I re-thought that idea and left that stipulation off.


I recalled that when I approved geopiggies caches. I meant to put them on my watch list but forgot.


At the time I didn't consider the ramifications of the caches perpetually showing up on someone's nearest cache list. That would drive me crazy. One day as a test I'll have to log a find on one near me w/o finding it, immediately delete the log, and see it it's still on the nearest list. There must be some way to fool the system. icon_wink.gif



erik - geocaching.com admin

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