Should I, can I, frequently change terrain rating?

[+MidnightBarbecue]

My newest hide is in a flood plain along a large river. Right now with the spring snowmelt and ice hams a boat is required to reach it. In the driest months it will be a fairly easy hike on mostly dry ground. In winter snowshoes will suffice or maybe just yaktrax if there is enough ice.

I'm purposely releasing it now to make  the local FTF hounds work for it.

 

Should I make it a 'T5' to publish and lower it later, or just go for an average? 

[+niraD]

19 minutes ago, MidnightBarbecue said:

Should I make it a 'T5' to publish and lower it later, or just go for an average? 

I've seen other caches where the terrain rating changed seasonally. Go for it.

 

Of course, you'll piss off some people who are too focused on their stats. But the terrain rating is supposed to be a communication tool, and when the conditions change, the CO should update the terrain rating accordingly.

[+TriciaG]

If you decide to change it seasonally, you might want to note that intention in your cache description. Then the stats hounds who howl when their grid is messed up can be muzzled from the start - or at least forewarned.

Edited March 9, 2022 by TriciaG

[+cerberus1]

38 minutes ago, MidnightBarbecue said:

My newest hide is in a flood plain along a large river. Right now with the spring snowmelt and ice hams a boat is required to reach it. In the driest months it will be a fairly easy hike on mostly dry ground. In winter snowshoes will suffice or maybe just yaktrax if there is enough ice.

I'm purposely releasing it now to make  the local FTF hounds work for it.

Should I make it a 'T5' to publish and lower it later, or just go for an average? 

 

When people place caches, usually they know an area, and realize that seasonal changes affect D/T.

A walk across a frozen pond for a cache rated "T5" in Summer an example...

Changing other's stats is a pretty-big issue in our area, especially the T5s, so like TriciaG, I'd make mention on the cache page, so everyone can figure it as 1.5/1.5 (or just another cache...). 

 

[+Jayeffel]

I have seen caches, of course none come to. mind, where the terrain and difficulty variations are mentioned in the description. 

[+ChriBli]

1 hour ago, Jayeffel said:

I have seen caches, of course none come to. mind, where the terrain and difficulty variations are mentioned in the description. 

I have also seen that. In my opinion, that's the way to go. Set the rating to the highest alternative, then mention in the description that it might be lower at another season. Preferably don't change anything after the first found log, including attributes, size, posted coordinates etc. Some people are interested in statistics and they have all the right to be, others may be working on challenges like finding a certain size for every day of the year or finding caches in all bearings from a certain point. No need to mess up that.

[+TeamRabbitRun]

2 hours ago, ChriBli said:

I have also seen that. In my opinion, that's the way to go. Set the rating to the highest alternative, then mention in the description that it might be lower at another season. Preferably don't change anything after the first found log, including attributes, size, posted coordinates etc. Some people are interested in statistics and they have all the right to be, others may be working on challenges like finding a certain size for every day of the year or finding caches in all bearings from a certain point. No need to mess up that.

 

I don't think I like this. If, in monsoon season a cache is listed as a T5 with a note on the page that six months later it'll be like a T1 walk-up, then I'll just wait a while and snag meself a T5 that I might just get be able to get from my car-window.

 

Kinda blows the bragging rights that come with the phrase "I bagged a T5 today!"

 

Edited March 9, 2022 by TeamRabbitRun

[+barefootjeff]

1 hour ago, ChriBli said:

I have also seen that. In my opinion, that's the way to go. Set the rating to the highest alternative, then mention in the description that it might be lower at another season. Preferably don't change anything after the first found log, including attributes, size, posted coordinates etc. Some people are interested in statistics and they have all the right to be, others may be working on challenges like finding a certain size for every day of the year or finding caches in all bearings from a certain point. No need to mess up that.

 

Yep. I have a T5 boat-required cache but the water's not that deep and at low tide it's possible to access it from a nearby hiking track by wading to it through the mud and oyster shells. My intention was that it be accessed by boat, and the cache even has a boating theme (it's all about the remains of an old stone jetty), but it doesn't bother me that a few people have gotten there without one. I'm not about to start reducing the T rating every time the tide goes out!

 

If conditions change permanently, like a road is closed or a new one built, then it can make sense to change the rating. I've bumped a couple of my T3.5s up to T4 due to track degradation from fallen trees, land slips and the like. Likewise if the container is changed the size rating should be altered to match the new one, but if the cache has changed too much from the original experience it might be better to archive it and create a new one.

[+niraD]

36 minutes ago, barefootjeff said:

Likewise if the container is changed the size rating should be altered to match the new one, but if the cache has changed too much from the original experience it might be better to archive it and create a new one.

A lot depends on what the intent of the CO was. If the intent was to have a micro in the woods, then replacing the container with an ammo can is a different experience. If the intent was to take seekers to a particular location, then replacing the container with a different size isn't particularly significant.

[+ChriBli]

57 minutes ago, TeamRabbitRun said:

I don't think I like this. If, in monsoon season a cache is listed as a T5 with a note on the page that six months later it'll be a T1 walk-up, then I'll just wait a while and snag meself a T5 that I might just get be able to get from my car-window.

Very common around here, I can tell you. Most caches on islands at some distance from the shore have the "boat required" attribute and are T5, even if you can just stroll over to them in the winter on the ice. All of these caches shifting T-rating with the season would just be silly.

 

But by all means, do it the other way around if you are worried that someone will bag a T5 without being entitled. It's just that someone that doesn't read the description may come unprepared for the T5 conditions that happen to prevail at the moment.

 

The important thing is that it should be avoided to change anything that might affect peoples statistics or challenge fulfillments after publication, if at all possible. Challenge caches are a part of the game, and it is perfectly legitimate to go after them. Why complicate that? If something must be changed, like the size of the container, that information could be put in the description.

[+wmpastor]

2 hours ago, TeamRabbitRun said:

 

I don't think I like this. If, in monsoon season a cache is listed as a T5 with a note on the page that six months later it'll be like a T1 walk-up, then I'll just wait a while and snag meself a T5 that I might just get be able to get from my car-window.

 

Kinda blows the bragging rights that come with the phrase "I bagged a T5 today!"

 

Exactly right to rate it at the highest level that may realistically apply on a regular ongoing basis, mentioning that at some times it may be easier!

[+MidnightBarbecue]

Thanks everyone for your input. I did not realize a T change would affect the stats of past finders, but I did wonder.

I will make this one a 3.5 and leave it. That should be a good average of conditions year 'round. I will also explain the possibility of tougher conditions as well, I'm pretty good at overexplaining things in my descriptions.

[+TeamRabbitRun]

2 hours ago, ChriBli said:

Very common around here, I can tell you. Most caches on islands at some distance from the shore have the "boat required" attribute and are T5, even if you can just stroll over to them in the winter on the ice. All of these caches shifting T-rating with the season would just be silly.

 

But by all means, do it the other way around if you are worried that someone will bag a T5 without being entitled. It's just that someone that doesn't read the description may come unprepared for the T5 conditions that happen to prevail at the moment.

 

The important thing is that it should be avoided to change anything that might affect peoples statistics or challenge fulfillments after publication, if at all possible. Challenge caches are a part of the game, and it is perfectly legitimate to go after them. Why complicate that? If something must be changed, like the size of the container, that information could be put in the description.

 

Oh, I totally get why the rating shouldn't be changed, but I still don't like it.

I'm not suggesting that we do anything else, but it doesn't sit right with me. I do NOT have a better idea. Doing it the other way seems not optimal, as well.

 

Seasonally changing it, however, is probably worse.

 

Not nearly as irksome as other aspects of this madness, but.

 

[+kunarion]

49 minutes ago, TeamRabbitRun said:

Oh, I totally get why the rating shouldn't be changed, but I still don't like it. I'm not suggesting that we do anything else, but it doesn't sit right with me. I do NOT have a better idea. Doing it the other way seems not optimal, as well.

 

Seasonally changing it, however, is probably worse.

 

 

I'm not so sure about the T-averaging idea, either, that's the worst of both worlds.  I'd say, the CO should set it the way it makes sense to the CO, and leave it set there.  Until the first dozen logs or so that point out how weird the T rating is compared to other ice lake caches in the region.  Then maybe reconsider, and change it and then leave it set there. 

 

I never adjust my T rate seasonally on my caches.  But one reason I don't mess with editing the cache page is I always seem to do it when There Is A Bug Today that un-formats everything, so a simple change balloons into an hour of editing.

 

Edited March 10, 2022 by kunarion

[+niraD]

4 hours ago, ChriBli said:

All of these caches shifting T-rating with the season would just be silly.

Why?

 

Geocaches are considered "long term" if they are designed to remain at least 3 months. Sure, changing it for a storm that's going to last a few days or even a couple weeks doesn't make sense. But if a condition that would affect the ratings is going to last "long term", then the ratings should be updated so potential seeker's can use the site's existing tools properly.

[+tomfuller & Quill]

I remember doing my first T5 cache find in the summer of 2005. It was on an island in a reservoir in the Cascades of Oregon. That summer they drained the reservoir and I walked to the island with dry feet. Only in rare cases where the terrain change will be permanent would I consider changing the terrain rating on any of my caches. I do remember having to go find another cache to fill in my Fizzy because someone changed either the D or T rating on one of the singular caches months after I had completed the Fizzy.