Basecamp and Nuvi2597LMT - Can anyone offer advice, please

[+Gill & Tony]

I have created a GPX file containing a series of route points from GSAK and a routing macro.  This follows an optimum route through a set of 30 caches.

 

I have dpwnloaded BaseCamp 4.7.4 onto my W10 PC and tried to import the GPX file.  When I go to the File menu there is an entry "Import...  ", but that is greyed out and I cannot import the file

 

I then loaded BaseCamp 4.7.4 onto my W10 Laptop and the file menu now contains an entry "Import to My Collection..." and this is not greyed out  The wording on the import is different.

 

So, I tranfered the GPX file to the laptop, imported it and then exported it into the Nuvi.  After much hunting on the Nuvi I found Apps and Trip Planner where what seems to be the route is visible, but contains 80 entries in the order Route Point 1 followed by 10,11,12 etc, then 2, 20, 21.

 

Apart from finding 80 points instead of the expected 30, I have no idea how to persuade the Nuvi to display the route and navigate along it when I drive.

 

Can anyone help, please?

[robertlipe]

My approach would be to try to use leading zeros. If it's doing an alphabetic sort instead of a numeric one (not unreasonable, though you'refree to ask which of these steps is sorting them at all) "02 ... 09 10 11 12 ... 19 20 " will do what I think you're asking for. An alphabetic sort of that same sequence without tthe leading zeros would put 10 11 12 before 2.

You may have too much software involved. Can you just copy the GPX file straight to the device and land it in whatever device directory it expects to find such things?  I can't recall if 2597 mounts like a disk drive and reads GPX or if it was of the generation that wanted to be a camera and only talk through a protocol that didn't respect folders/directories.

Goopd luck.

[+Gill & Tony]

Hi, Robert, thanks for the reply.

 

The Input GPX file does use leading zeroes.  Route Point 01 to Route Point 30.  It seems that BaseCamp numbers it's own points without them.

 

I contacted Garmin support before posting here and they told me to use Basecamp

 

The device mounted like a USB drive until a couple of days ago but after the last firmware update, mounts in some other mode.

[+GeoTrekker26]

Saying “some other mode” is not a useful description. Any chance is was mass storage mode or something similar? If so that means it will appear to be disk drive to a win machine. Not sure what MacOS sees. 

[+Gill & Tony]

Yes, Ithink it became mass storage mode

[+Atlas Cached]

On 2/18/2022 at 8:24 PM, Gill & Tony said:

I have created a GPX file containing a series of route points from GSAK and a routing macro.  This follows an optimum route through a set of 30 caches.

 

Which GSAK macro are you using to accomplish this?

 

On 2/18/2022 at 8:24 PM, Gill & Tony said:

I have dpwnloaded BaseCamp 4.7.4 onto my W10 PC and tried to import the GPX file.  When I go to the File menu there is an entry "Import...  ", but that is greyed out and I cannot import the file

 

It is possible you didn't have a valid Folder or Folder List selected in BaseCamp to import external data to.

 

On 2/18/2022 at 8:24 PM, Gill & Tony said:

I then loaded BaseCamp 4.7.4 onto my W10 Laptop and the file menu now contains an entry "Import to My Collection..." and this is not greyed out  The wording on the import is different.

 

Here you likely had a valid Folder or Folder List selected in BaseCamp for importing data to.

 

On 2/18/2022 at 8:24 PM, Gill & Tony said:

So, I tranfered the GPX file to the laptop, imported it and then exported it into the Nuvi.

 

This short sentence may sound insignificant, but a lot of things happened during this process. For example, the route was almost certainly recalculated using the map data and routing preferences enabled in BaseCamp.

 

On 2/18/2022 at 8:24 PM, Gill & Tony said:

After much hunting on the Nuvi I found Apps and Trip Planner where what seems to be the route is visible,

 

This sounds like standard Garmin Automotive Device behavior.

 

On 2/18/2022 at 8:24 PM, Gill & Tony said:

but contains 80 entries in the order Route Point 1 followed by 10,11,12 etc, then 2, 20, 21.

 

This is standard numerical sorting used by most computers.

 

On 2/18/2022 at 8:24 PM, Gill & Tony said:

Apart from finding 80 points instead of the expected 30,

 

The increased number of route points suggests the route was indeed recalculated in BaseCamp using map data and routing preferences that are not the same as those used by the GSAK macro.

 

On 2/18/2022 at 8:24 PM, Gill & Tony said:

I have no idea how to persuade the Nuvi to display the route and navigate along it when I drive.

 

Usually this workflow on the GPSr consists of something very similar to selecting: 'Where To?' > 'Routes' > {chooser desired route} > 'Go'

 

How long have you been using this Garmin nuvi 2597LMT?

How familiar are you with it?

Have you read the Garmin Owner's Manual for this device?

 

Looking at 'Data Management > File Types' in the nuvi 2597 manual, it appears it may only accept GPX Waypoint files from BaseCamp.

 

I do not find any mention of being able to load externally created routes to this older navigator.

 

Have you run Garmin Express with the nuvi connected to verify the firmware is up to date?

 

I always found Garmin automotive navigation products, especially of this vintage ('nuvi' models), to be some of the most non-intuitive and least user friendly devices ever produced.

 

More current 'Drive' models are slightly better, but not by much.

 

No Garmin Automotive device even supports Geocaching, which appears to be the primary focus for your journey. Do you have any other Garmin devices you use for this purpose?

 

On 2/18/2022 at 8:24 PM, Gill & Tony said:

Can anyone help, please?

 

Maybe....

 

 

[+Gill & Tony]

 

5 hours ago, Atlas Cached said:

Which GSAK macro are you using to accomplish this?  (plus a lot of other helpful stuff)

 

Thanks for the reply

 

I'm using CacheRoute3OSM  to build the GPX file.

 

I've had the Nuvi for a few years and am reasonably familiar with it, except that I just do the same things every time, this is the first time I've tried to import a route.  I have Garmin Express start automatically when the Nuvi is connected and it is always up to date with software and maps.

 

I have read the manual and it doesn't seem to cover routes other than the normal "Pick a location or more on the device and go".  Apps > Trip Planner seemed more useful, but, again, you have to enter locations manually, one after the other.  I was hoping that theree would be some way to automatically build the trip from the route imported from base camp.  Garmin support sent me details of how to get the route into the Nuvi so I'm hoping they will be able to explain how to convert the route to something usable - but I'm not holding my breath.

 

I use the Nuvi to navigate to a cache (or, more often, a suitable parking spot) and then use the E-Trex 30x to locate the cache.  Yes, geocaching in the main use for the Nuvi, but only for getting between caches, not for finding them.

 

If I get anything useful back ftom Garmin I'll post it here.

[+Gill & Tony]

10 hours ago, HHL said:

Better check it. From a GARMIN site (found with an easy Google search):

2. Start NUVI by itself and go to Volume Screen.
3. Press the upper right hand corner of screen for 10 seconds.
4. The Developers Screen will pop up
5. Scroll down to MTP SETTINGS
6. Change from AUTO DETECT to MASS STORAGE
7. Shut down NUVI and hookup to Computer USB cable
8. Start NUVI and it should recognize it is hooked up to the computer.

 

Hans

NB: This post will vanish immediately as soon as my stalking idiot flags it as funny.

 

Thanks for that.  

 

PS.  I don't think it is funny - just useful

[+Gill & Tony]

Hmm!  Things are really getting annoying now.  After the last software update the device no longer connects to the computer.  I've tried Mass Storage and MTP modes, two different cables and two different USB ports.

 

I think it is getting towards the end of its life.  Any advice on a decent in-car GPS as a substitute?  

 

 

[+Atlas Cached]

Are you using the Garmin cable?

WIN 10, correct?

[+Gill & Tony]

Yes to both.  Also tried non-garmin cable.

[+Atlas Cached]

1 hour ago, Gill & Tony said:

Any advice on a decent in-car GPS as a substitute?  

 

Normally I would suggest a Montana for the best of both worlds, street navigation and Geocaching. Then you only have to load one device with all your data and it does double duty.

[+Atlas Cached]

The Montana 700i includes City-Navigator maps with free lifetime updates and is arguably the most capable and feature rich Garmin GPSr that fits all your needs.

[+Gill & Tony]

5 minutes ago, Atlas Cached said:

The Montana 700i includes City-Navigator maps with free lifetime updates and is arguably the most capable and feature rich Garmin GPSr that fits all your needs.

They are a bit out of my price range. 

 

I was looking at the drivesmart range, which seem to have Lifetime maps and traffic included.  They are around 1/3 the price.  Probably the Garmin DriveSmart 65 MT-S 6.95" GPS Navigator.  It doesn't have the LMT suffix, but seems to have that included.

 

Unless you know something I don't (which is highly likely)

 

 

[+Atlas Cached]

Looks like it includes map updates, yes.

 

Still will not play well with BaseCamp and your GSAK routes.

[+Atlas Cached]

Just wanted to add that their may be another GSAK macro better suited to your needs, but I have never researched for this purpose as I do not use the dedicated automotive navigators if I can help it!

 

Perhaps start a thread over on the GSAK forums asking what others are using to accomplish your goal?

 

You  may have better results there.

[robertlipe]

Your post mentioned "route point 1", so I latched onto the leading zero thing. That may be a distraction.|

My point was that if you're starting with a GPX file that you know is right, dragging through GSAK and through a variety of their Macros, feeding that through Basecamp along the way, and pitstopping it in CacheRoute30SM (which is a new title to me), there are a lot of fingerprints on things that have a chance to "damage" the file in weird ways. If you start with a GPX file, mount the device in mass storage mode, copy the GPX file to it, carefully unmount/eject, and the GPS should read it on next boot..

Things like Basecamp (or whatever they're calling it now) and even some GPSes tend to snap route points to roads that can also result in routes looking different on the device than they do if you're just looking at it. 

My power geocaching days are over, but I also found a happy place using one dedicated unit in the car and another on my hip. I used a StreetPilot 2720 long long after they were trendy, but it's a nice combination. (I'm not at all recommending buying a 2720 in modern times.)

Remember that GPX files are "just" a very carefully crafted text file.  If you aren't intimidated by, say, reading a web page source code, pop one open in a text file and see if the order and details match your expectations. The GPX file format is described in great details on expertgps.com if you have to split hairs, but I think a pencil and paper, not a magnifying glass will help find where it's going off the rails. You can see a well-constructed GPX file at https://github.com/GPSBabel/gpsbabel/blob/master/reference/transform-rte.gpx

Pardon the lack of vowels, but an <rte> is made of an ordered list of <rtept>s. Order matters. Almost everything insden rte or rtept is optional. Notably, the <name>, <cmt> and <desc> fields to not have anything to do with the order of the turnpoints. Even the names are optional. This one has <time> and <ele>, which is pretty rare for routes (but legal) because this file is part of GPSBabel's test suite and it was converted from a track into a route. They're optinoal and a distraction for you.

So pop open your GPX files each step along the way and see where the order goes wonky.

Also check that your GPS can even hold that many. Most consumer grade units won't let you put in infinite routepoints . Motorcyclists, in particular, run into this issue a lot. The GPS - especially ones that do routing - really want to be given a route that says "Mountain View, Palo Alto, San Mateo, SF" and not 150 turn points for every stop light between those points. (This is a terrible example because either 101 or El Camino would be basically a straight line; I just needed a few cities that are moderately well known and somewhat close.)

[+Gill & Tony]

The workflow is slightly different from your description.

 

I start with a filter of caches in a GSAK database.

CacheRoute3OSM reads the filter and uses OSM mapping to calculate the optimum path through those caches and displays the output on the map.

One option is to download a GPX file containing the <rte> structure with names Route Point 01 upwards.

This gpx file goes into Basecamp and basecamp then exports it the the GPSr with more route points, but numbered without leading zeroes.

 

I think the problem is that the GPSr doesn't really handle the routes very well.

 

Thanks for the explanation, the rte structure makes more sense now.

 

 

Edited February 21, 2022 by Gill & Tony

[robertlipe]

Following up on that last point.  I can't find the max number of routepoints, but at least one piece of Garmin software may have a limit of 29 points if te last post in https://www.expressmounts.com/questions?qid=37847 is to be believed.

If it's about size and not ordering or a name conflict (three point named "tree" shouldn't be merged into a single one, but I'm sure that some software somewhere may do that) you might try breaking the route into 4 chunks of 20.  Name them Morning, Afternoon, etc. or something where you can easily control the sequence from the unit while you're on the move.  When I was finishing my 50 state challenge and covering hundreds of states, I went even lower tech: a note taped to my dashboard of states in the order I needed to hit them. From there, choosing one from the map is easy. I had access to over a hundred GPSes at my peak and I never found any of them that would really route that many in a day. Reality would always hit - a road closure, a town parade, etc. - that meant you had to hop from 57 to 59 and let 58 go and the GPS would go nuts trying to  navigate you back there. It was usually just too finicky to mess with while driving.

There was also a time I'd have two dash units - one doing the actual cache to cache routing and another that was zoomed out and kept more of a big-picture "you are here" that kept me heading the approximate direction I needed to move to keep on track during the run. Yes, it was absurd hardware overkill.

So you have lots of things to investigate and alternatives on the table in case you do find what's dragging you down.

Good luck.
 

[robertlipe]

> I think the problem is that the GPSr doesn't really handle the routes very well.

We typed a variation of this at the same time, but now that I understand this better, I'm pretty sure you're destined for frustration. Building a route from a PQ is going to do things like lead you to the front door of the subdivision that happens to share a rear fence that borders the back edge of the park that houses the ammo box. It's going to navigate to the "wrong" place to park. You're going to be messing with it at the final minutes and if youre the driver, it's distracting that you have to outsmart all that tech.

I think that taking the GPX generated by the first software listed would help you eliminate the basecamp issues. The GPX *should* just eat the GPX directly.

Another "fresh perspective" in all this would just be to leave the unit on the dash running the map overview and pick your destination from the map . Mark them as found and they'll disppear from the map as you go and your bread crumbs make it clear where you've been. Much less software fiddling involved. This was what I did when I was traveling (most of the last of my final years) and didn't want to carry a bucket of hardware on the planes. It worked OK with a single GPS and the trick is to set the PQ paramaters for what you'll actually hunt (a process you must be doing if you've narrowed it down to an 87 point list) and use the diff/terr and ignore lists appropriately.

[+HHL]

The GPX file created by the mentioned macro is NOT a valid route GPX. It's just a track GPX file containing some wpts.

[+Gill & Tony]

4 minutes ago, HHL said:

The GPX file created by the mentioned macro is NOT a valid route GPX. It's just a track GPX file containing some wpts.

If you download the one at the top, you are correct

 

But if you scroll down to the bottom, there is an option to download a route GPX