+GeoElmo6000 Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 I have a question about the use of the word "muggle" in geocaching to mean "A person who is not privy to the game of Geocaching". My question is, did geocaching's use of this word come from a fun adoption of the term used in the Harry Potter series (for a person without magical abilities), or was it from an earlier more general definition (a person who is not familiar with or knowledgeable about a specific subject). I always assumed the former but wondering if it could be the latter. Anyone with a good background on the actual history of this word in geocaching? Quote Link to comment
Moun10Bike Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 I'm pretty sure it was taken directly from Harry Potter: 1 1 Quote Link to comment
+GeoElmo6000 Posted January 24, 2022 Author Share Posted January 24, 2022 17 minutes ago, Moun10Bike said: I'm pretty sure it was taken directly from Harry Potter: Thank you, I didn't see that when I looked. I hope you have inducted Lyra into the geocaching Hall of Fame! On 9/5/2002 at 12:43 PM, Lyra said: Kinda neat, I thought. Hope this term catches on so that I can go down in the annals of history in this sport, in case they open a Hall of Fame some day. I had asked because I saw that the word predates Harry Potter, so if A (the original use) led to B (Harry Potter usage), did C (geocaching usage) come from B or A? But it looks like it came from B. Glad "geomuggle" didn't win out, "geo-" is slightly overused at this point! (Now let me get in my geomobile with my geodog and go geocaching) Quote Link to comment
Moun10Bike Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 3 minutes ago, GeoElmo6000 said: Thank you, I didn't see that when I looked. I hope you have inducted Lyra into the geocaching Hall of Fame! The problem is that I don't think Lyra was the first to use it - see Jamie Z's post a couple down in the thread. Unfortunately, it links to a thread from the old version of the forums that no longer exists. 1 Quote Link to comment
+Sagefox Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 8 hours ago, GeoElmo6000 said: I had asked because I saw that the word predates Harry Potter... You must be thinking about the movies. I just checked our copy of The Sorcerer's Stone (1st book) and the copyright date is 1997. Bing says the first movie release date was November 16, 2001 so the word muggle was well known in 2002. 2 Quote Link to comment
+MartyBartfast Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 5 hours ago, Sagefox said: You must be thinking about the movies. I just checked our copy of The Sorcerer's Stone (1st book) and the copyright date is 1997. Muggle has been used going way back to the 1920/30's so pre-dates Harry Potter by a long way, though maybe not Dumbledore 3 1 1 Quote Link to comment
+cerberus1 Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 5 hours ago, MartyBartfast said: Muggle has been used going way back to the 1920/30's so pre-dates Harry Potter by a long way, though maybe not Dumbledore Yep. A older relative (artist, now long gone...) told me once about muggle, and the muggles who use it, and it was a substance some still smoke today. This was in the 70s and he just thought it funny it had a different name. 2 Quote Link to comment
+thebruce0 Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 21 hours ago, GeoElmo6000 said: Glad "geomuggle" didn't win out, "geo-" is slightly overused at this point! (Now let me get in my geomobile with my geodog and go geocaching) You mean, in the geocaching contet, it's been geoverused! 2 Quote Link to comment
+dprovan Posted January 26, 2022 Share Posted January 26, 2022 13 hours ago, MartyBartfast said: Muggle has been used going way back to the 1920/30's so pre-dates Harry Potter by a long way, though maybe not Dumbledore "Muggle" meaning what? I quickly tried to look this up, and it's not clear to me how far "muggle" goes back meaning "uninitiated". The earlier references seem to be the same word but used for something else like pot smoking. At any rate, no American had ever heard the term, regardless of how far it goes back in Britain. While I don't really know who first used it for geocaching or why, I'd be *very* surprised if they didn't get the idea from the Harry Potter concept of muggles being those unaware of the world of magic. Personally, I'd go so far as the claim that Rowling reinvented the word to mean something different than it meant before she used it. Specifically, the existing term -- as I've been able to track it down -- meant someone not in the know but not someone *unaware* of "the know" altogether. (And that's assuming she was consciously using an existing term rather than inventing her own term, and I'd want to hear what she says about that.) Quote Link to comment
+mustakorppi Posted January 26, 2022 Share Posted January 26, 2022 8 hours ago, dprovan said: "Muggle" meaning what? I quickly tried to look this up, and it's not clear to me how far "muggle" goes back meaning "uninitiated". The earlier references seem to be the same word but used for something else like pot smoking. That meaning is not descibed in OED 2nd edition (which predates Harry Potter). It has three entries for "muggle": first as a Kentish word for "tail" (cited examples from 13th century), second as an unknown meaning with cited examples from 17th century (this meaning doesn't seem to refer to a person either), and third as US slang for "marijuana cigarette" (earliest citations from 1926). Quote Link to comment
+MartyBartfast Posted January 26, 2022 Share Posted January 26, 2022 17 hours ago, dprovan said: "Muggle" meaning what? Well FWIW I agree that the usage in Geocaching is almost certainly based on the Harry Potter usage, given that the union between the set of HP fans and the set of Geocachers is likely to be large (and I am one). I was just pointing out that JKR didn't invent the word, she just gave it another meaning, and Geocachers have given it yet another (sort of). As for no American having heard the word before HP, it looks like the drug related usage from the 20's-30's was almost exclusively American and Louis Armstrong released a single "Muggles". Quote Link to comment
+dprovan Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 7 hours ago, MartyBartfast said: I was just pointing out that JKR didn't invent the word, she just gave it another meaning, and Geocachers have given it yet another (sort of). I guess I consider it a different word if it has a different meaning, but whatever. Does it matter to you whether Rowling knew about the existing word, or would you still say she didn't invent it even if she'd never heard the word before? 7 hours ago, MartyBartfast said: As for no American having heard the word before HP, it looks like the drug related usage from the 20's-30's was almost exclusively American and Louis Armstrong released a single "Muggles". Yes, again, I meant the word being used with the meaning of "uninitiated". Quote Link to comment
+colleda Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 "No-maj" doesn't have quite the same effect as "muggle". 1 Quote Link to comment
+Lostboy1966 Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 In my memory of playing I've always viewed Muggle as a 'civilian' coming across a hide, and being based on the Harry Potter term from the books/movies of the time. I might be wrong. It certainly wouldn't be the first time. 1 Quote Link to comment
+JakeDot Posted April 6, 2022 Share Posted April 6, 2022 On 1/30/2022 at 7:41 AM, colleda said: "No-maj" doesn't have quite the same effect as "muggle". What about "No-caj"? Quote Link to comment
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