SF Bay Area geocachers

[+Sharkz]

Pinnacles is a wonderful, curious place, and a geological anomaly, but it's NPS. http://www.nps.gov/pinn/index.htm Really purdy in the Springtime.

 

Since I've yet to go to the WoW Earthcache, I dunno if they need to be a physical cache. If so, Pinnacles would need to be an offset on the log road in.

We have spent a lot of time in Pinnacles over the last 30 years. My parents use to take us there all the time. Beautiful place. I am just posting a note to let everyone know that this is the last weekend that the caves will be open due to the bats. If you want to do an awesome hike this is the place. I am sure that the wildflowers are beautiful right now.

[+CC]

So I weeded the garden and went to Quicksilver instead of going to Pinnacles.  Sigh. 

 

The wildflowers were really quite something!

 

We got to the Pinnacles around 10:30. Nice pleasant drive. No one else on the road. Figured we would be the only ones there. There were a half a dozen cars lined up at the gate. We paid our $5.00 and we advised whenre to park since the main parking at the visitors center was full. "The vistors center is just a .5 mile hike. There is water in the creek, flowers blooming.. a really pretty little hike". What they failed to mention it was pretty much straigt up. The hike from the car to the visitors center was the hardest part. We hiked up to the caves; half closed march 31st to let the bats have a little peace to have babies and such.

 

The rest of the hiking was nice. The weather was great fr hiking and with lots of flowers in bloom, it was realy pretty! We did have to walk through a swarm of bees, but none of us had any problems. All in all, it was a great first visit there and will be even more fun next time.

 

We tried to hit several caches on the way home. We managed 5, but the rest of the clan just wanted to get home and make dinner. I had identified 19 potential caches on the route, so we can get some more next time.

[+sammydee]

FYI, the next meeting of the Santa Clara County Parks Commission is April 6, 2005 6:30pm Issac Newton Senter Auditorium, 70 W. Hedding.

 

I'll be attending, as I believe several other cachers will as well. Nothing related to caching is on the agenda, but we want to use the opportunity to continue to bond a bit with the Parks folks. This is part of our ongoing effort to make sure caching and cachers are seen as constructive, non-scary and good to have around.

 

We won't do any talking, other than a little light schmoozing before and after the meeting.

 

And, since actions speak louder than, uh, sitting quietly in a meeting - please join us at the "Trail Days: Almaden Quicksilver" event on the 26th!

 

Here's the agenda - I also have PDF versions of the various committee reports. If you're planning to attend let me know and I'll forward the complete packet to you.

 

...Sam

 

 

1. Call to order

 

2. Public presentations. Speakers are limited to one minute. Persons are asked to provide requests in writing to staff.

 

3. Approve minutes – December 1, 2004

 

4. Accept verbal liason reports.

a. Open Space Authority (3 min)

b. Santa Clara Valley Water District (3 min)

 

5. Accept verbal community liason reports

a. Friends of Santa Teresa County Park (3 min)

b. Youth Science Institute (3 min)

c. New Almaden Quicksilver County Park Association (3 min)

 

6. Accept verbal report from the Director, Parks and Recreation Department (10 min)

 

7. Approve endorsement of the Capital Improvement Plan for FY 2006 as recommended by the Parks and Recreation Department (PRD) and forward to the Board of Supervisors for inclusion in the 2006 PRD budget. (10 min)

 

8. Accept recommendation from the PRD to approve user fee adjustments of Field Sports Park room, rifle and pistol range reservation fees, and forward a favorable recommendation to the Housing, Land Use, Environment and Transportation Committee of the Board of Supervisors and subsequently to the Board of Supervisors (15 min)

 

9. Accept an oral presentation and update on the Natural Resource Management Program (30 min)

 

10. Accept verbal Committee Reports (10 min)

a. Bay Trail Advisory

b. Bay Area Ridge Trail Council

c. Los Gatos Creek Trail

d. Coyote Creek Master Plan

e. Trails Committee

f. Coyote Valley Specific Plan

g. Funding Committee

 

11. Informal roundtable / announcements (5 min)

 

12. Adjourn to the next regular meeting – Wed 4 May 2005 at 6:30.

[+Marky]

Nobody has posted in a while, so I thought I'd post a note to let anyone who attended Workorwood's polyclay workshops that Michael's has a sale going on right now for Fimo at $0.97 instead of their norma $2.49 per 56g package. Sculpey Premo is on sale for $0.87 (I've seen many books reference Premo as being good to use for cane work).

 

You probably won't be able to find any white or black (um, we bought a lot of it), but there was still a good color selection at our local Michael's last night.

 

--Marky

[+sammydee]

As I noted earlier, the Santa Clara County Park Commission meeting was tonite. The agenda, totally unrelated to caching, is above.

 

I attended the meeting, and was the only cacher able to make it this month. (Everyone else had notes from their parents, so that's ok!)

 

Since nothing related to caching was even remotely on the agenda, one might think that this was a waste of time, but I don't think so. In fact, this meeting really drove home to me the value of attending these on a regular basis.

 

1. After the last meeting, WoW, SteveL and I were able to chat with two of the Commissioners about caching. Neither had any real knowledge of it at the time. This time, both of them made a point of saying "hi" to me, and both stopped to tell me caching stories! One had actually gone home from the previous meeting, looked up a cache near his house, and gone out to find it. Unfortunately he was unsuccessful. :-( The other Commissioner hadn't done it himself, but described a caching trip that some people he works with are about to take. He was very happy that he had known what his friends were talking about because we had discussed it last month.

 

2. Before the meeting, I talked with a group of about 4 or 5 civilians who were in the audience and who hadn't been to a meeting before (oh yeah, I'm the expert...) They were motorcyclists, who were there to show their solidarity around the County Motorcycle Park, which they seemed to think was in some sort of danger that I never quite understood. They basically showed up at the meeting, were completely bored for a couple of hours, and then vanished without talking to anyone or really making any contacts or any impact. I think I was the only one in the room who talked to them, or who knew why they were there. Pretty clearly they wasted an evening.

 

SO - I think that continuing to be visible, month after month, and slowly expanding our circle of contacts is a very good thing. And hey, I saw a nifty 30 minute presentation on the eradication of invasive thistle at various county parks, too.

 

Come to Trail Days: Almaden Quicksilver on the 23rd! You'll be a hero, and you'll get a free CITO shirt!

 

...Sam

 

p.s. Will whoever owns the cache in Vista Park in San Jose make it really, really easy to find? Please? The I'll send the Commissioner back to look for it one more time... <joking>

Edited April 7, 2005 by sammydee

[+Oldhippy & Granny]

Nobody has posted in a while, so I thought I'd post a note to let anyone who attended Workorwood's polyclay workshops that Michael's has a sale going on right now for Fimo at $0.97 instead of their norma $2.49 per 56g package. Sculpey Premo is on sale for $0.87 (I've seen many books reference Premo as being good to use for cane work).

 

You probably won't be able to find any white or black (um, we bought a lot of it), but there was still a good color selection at our local Michael's last night.

 

--Marky

We also picked up a pasta machine at Michael's for $18.99 normally $24.99

[+workerofwood]

p.s. Will whoever owns the cache in Vista Park in San Jose make it really, really easy to find? Please? The I'll send the Commissioner back to look for it one more time... <joking>

That's mine, and it's not. It's a decon container, and that seems to throw off newbies for some reason. When I checked it recently it was in the wrong spot so I moved it back, which may help...

 

Thanks for making it to the meeting!

The fact that they remembered you and even tried caching shows this is a worthwhile effort. I will be there for the next one!

 

On a related note:

I met with some folks from REI Tuesday who are making inroads on our behalf to get Geocaching approved for EBRP

 

REI is starting a pilot program in the Bay Area this June that will include teaching Geocaching and taking folks on outings into local parks. So they have been in communication with EBRP to help deal with their issues. They understand what we are about and have a good reputation with the parks folks so they add some credibility for us!

[+workerofwood]

Come to Trail Days: Almaden Quicksilver on the 26th! You'll be a hero, and you'll get a free CITO shirt!

Sat 23rd right?

[+sammydee]

Sat 23rd right?

D'oh, I hate it when that happens. Yes, the 23rd.

[+bthomas]

On a related note:

I met with some folks from REI Tuesday who are making inroads on our behalf to get Geocaching approved for EBRP 

 

REI is starting a pilot program in the Bay Area this June that will include teaching Geocaching and taking folks on outings into local parks. So they have been in communication with EBRP to help deal with their issues. They understand what we are about and have a good reputation with the parks folks so they add some credibility for us!

 

Wow, WoW, this is an avenue that will likely have a good chance of success. If any of those folks are from the Fremont store, I'd consider volunteering for their REI public events.

[+Marky]

On a related note:

I met with some folks from REI Tuesday who are making inroads on our behalf to get Geocaching approved for EBRP 

 

REI is starting a pilot program in the Bay Area this June that will include teaching Geocaching and taking folks on outings into local parks. So they have been in communication with EBRP to help deal with their issues. They understand what we are about and have a good reputation with the parks folks so they add some credibility for us!

 

Wow, WoW, this is an avenue that will likely have a good chance of success. If any of those folks are from the Fremont store, I'd consider volunteering for their REI public events.

Ditto for any events at the Saratoga store.

 

--Marky

[+Nazgul]

I'll be up at the Saratoga store tomorrow spending my dividend on a new Camelback, so I'll be sure to wear a geocaching shirt.

[+CC]

Has anyone slowed down or not done specific caches because of the increased gas prices?

 

I don't seem to have. We spent a week at Bass Lake so we could geocache the area, we have explored the Pinnacles national Park becasue Geocaching brought us there. We are starting to explore Alamden Quicksilver because of the Geocaches IN the park. We are planning trip to the ast bay and north bay so we can do geocaching. So, it has not had an impact on us so far though it probably should.

 

CC

[+Marky]

Has anyone slowed down or not done specific caches because of the increased gas prices?

I think it is definitely in the backs of our minds, especially since we have done a lot of the nearest caches to us. If we want to go caching, it means a longer drive.

 

--Marky

[+Nazgul]

Higher prices haven't really impacted my caching since longer distances = more time and I'm more short of free time than anything else these days. I do keep it in mind though and it's a consideration in the equation, caching and otherwise.

[+KennyHannahJacobKatie]

Unlike many of those outside of the Bay Area where caches are sparse, I've still got thousands of local caches (within 20 miles) that are available despite my 275 cache total. So gasoline isn't a huge factor for me - workload on my day job has had a MUCH more negative impact on my cache total.

 

Things might look different if you live in Montana. (or if your name is Marky or David!) /Lefty

Edited April 8, 2005 by KennyHannahJacob

[+bullit]

If anyone has any smaller size TBs that want a lift over to Europe(Holland in particular) drop them in Got Bugs?(GCJDBY) by Tuesday the 12th. Falstaff will be picking them up on Wednesday.

[+WalruZ]

The newest copy of Bay Nature arrived today and I realized that many area geocachers might not know of this great magazine. I started subscribing with the issue about Coyote Hills Park and have been very happy with it ever since. The current issue features articles about Sibley Volcanic park and Henry Coe park, along with other great stuff. Back issues are available as well.

 

BayNature.com

Edited April 9, 2005 by WalruZ

[+OnefortheRoad]

It's starting to warm up and I'm itching to get the boat out. Any caches on the California Delta? I found a bunch on Angel Island, but I was hoping to find some Closer to Antioch.

[+nostrada]

FYI to our hacker friends:

 

make your own google map

One of the great things about Google maps is it has its roots in XML. To translate for the non-web developers out there, it basically means Google maps are user hackable. This how-to will show you how to make your own annotated Google map from your own GPS data. Plus, you’ll be able to tie in images and video to create an interactive multimedia map. We’ll walk you through the steps we took to generate an annotated map of a walk we took recently through our hometown, now that it’s actually starting to get warm enough to want to walk about!

 

Doesn't this beg for a geocaching implementation?

[+Lil Devil]

It's starting to warm up and I'm itching to get the boat out.  Any caches on the California Delta?  I found a bunch on Angel Island, but I was hoping to find some Closer to Antioch.

One that I enjoyed was Valve Open on Bradford Island. You can pay a few bucks and take the ferry, like I did, or use your own boat. I'm sure the owner of the Travel Bug I left there last October would appreciate it being set free.

 

A few miles up the Sacramento River is The Tomb Of A Million Souls and The Black Scarab, although the latter may have been lost to the shifting sands of time. These are actually accessible by overland route, but a boat can get you much closer.

 

Much further upstream is Coyote Island Cache but I think the nearby slough is more appropriate for a dingy than a boat capable of getting there from Antioch.

[+WalruZ]

Significant milestones!

 

BThomas - 5000 finds!

 

DigitialFish - 2000 finds!

 

Congratulations both, both so richly deserved!

[+Nazgul]

Significant milestones!

 

BThomas - 5000 finds!

 

DigitialFish - 2000 finds!

 

Congratulations both, both so richly deserved!

Like he said, congrats to both!

[+bthomas]

Thanks. Since I spent a couple of hours on Mountain History, and since it's a choo-choo cache, I think I'll call that one 5K. In truth, I'm about 60 caches behind in logging.

[+Kealia]

Thanks. Since I spent a couple of hours on Mountain History, and since it's a choo-choo cache, I think I'll call that one 5K. In truth, I'm about 60 caches behind in logging.

Hey, that's almost like my name in lights!

 

Glad you enjoyed it. I was going to head out in a couple of days and grab the Texas coin if somebody didn't get to it soon.

[+CC]

If anyone has any smaller size TBs that want a lift over to Europe(Holland in particular) drop them in Got Bugs?(GCJDBY) by Tuesday the 12th.  Falstaff will be picking them up on Wednesday.

 

Thanks for the note. I dropped off a small bug that would love to start out its life in Europe and hopefully make it to Italy some day!

 

CC

[+CC]

Thanks. Since I spent a couple of hours on Mountain History, and since it's a choo-choo cache, I think I'll call that one 5K. In truth, I'm about 60 caches behind in logging.

 

This sounds like a lot of fun. I put in the list of places to go. Looks like we might be able to get in parts after work and before the sun goes down and spend a couple hours on a weekend finishing it up.

 

Thanks!

 

CC

[+MotorBug]

This morning I expressed the opinion in a note to Want Fries with that? that shared/multiple FTF claims were not okay. The Petoskey Stones and I had a couple of email exchanges about that, and we sorta thought it might be interesting to see what the thoughts were here.

 

I'm of the opinion that only one cacher can claim an FTF. TPS disagrees, and bullit has posted a log that he agrees with TPS.

 

To paraphrase an email I sent to TPS and bullit:

----------------

 

Maybe we should bring it up in the forums to see what the real old timers have to say... I am a little surprised at the practice, especially among the FTF hounds.

 

It seems to me in this cache crazy area and for the FTF hounds, FTFs are a "big" deal. We (I?) race around like crazy at all hours of the day and night just for the "bragging rights" of a FTF. Or if not bragging rights something-- I'm really not sure why I do it. Perhaps it's "The smell of a virgin log sheet drives me insane! " (or some such statement from boulter on one of his FTF logs-- priceless!) Perhaps I need to get a life.

 

If FTF didn't matter, more work would get done, more sleep would be had, and fewer dinosaurs would be wasted. It just seems to me first is singular. I haven't looked it up, but I bet that is the definition.

 

Why do we all have PQs that we check constantly if not for the FTF?

------------------------------------------------------------

If I claim an FTF all the times I was a close second, I owe far more new caches than I already do according to Marky's Rule of FTF replacement (at least that's what I call it.)

[+MotorBug]

Well, I thought I was posting this to the SF forum, but not being here often I goofed.

 

Can I move this thing or should I just repost there?

 

Note added by Hemlock: I merged the extra thread in here and deleted a duplicate post.

Edited April 12, 2005 by Hemlock

[+Renegade Knight]

A group can claim FTF together. Sometimes one can find it, one open it and another sign the log for everone. When I cache we go 3 muskateers style. All for one and one for all. Other groups may use the point and laugh method where they find it, sneak away and then wait for the rest of the group to find it one by one.

 

If there is a FTF prize for the first finder though that normally goes to the person who did the actual spotting.

 

That's my buck two eighty on it.

Edited April 12, 2005 by Renegade Knight

[+SilverMarc]

Since the FTF is not tracked in any official manner, it's basically moot whether one or a group claims it.

 

As far as I'm concerned, the first logged post is the online representation of the FTF - and that said, I would suggest finding a cache and hitailing it to your computer to get that log in!

 

(As a cache owner, if someone who was the FTF had their log entry appear -after- a subsequent finder, I might be obliged to "step in" gracefully to try to negotiate with the STF to set the log entry order right for the FTF's benefit. But that hasn't happened to me so far.)

 

--Marc

April 11, 2005 @ 9:48 PM

N40° 46.565' W073° 58.756'

[+forman]

I do not log my FTF's asap. I went out the door and found it, my name was on a nice clean cache log first, that is a FTF. What are you going to do when the Geo website is slower than heck on the weekend and you can not get on to log?

 

Or you go to a Geo event, run a copy of a few cache pages that have not been found yet. You leave at 5:30 am, you get there into town at 7am for a day of caching with hopes of a FTF. You get a FTF then what? Kinko's or call your wife to log you in?

 

Don

[+Kealia]

I'd say multiple FTF's are OK if it's a group hunt/find.

 

No harm, no foul.

[+mjp303]

I'd say that even with a group hunt/find there's still a person who puts their hand on it first. Perhaps in certain circumstances the FTF should go to the person who has the "ahah!" moment even if they don't retreive the cache.

 

IMHO, FTF hunting should be a solo activity anyway. There's something supremely satisfying about finding it on your own and faster than anyone else. Why would you want to share that? (except for in the logs! )

[+Marky]

I say that if you make plans together to go find a cache, and it turns out that it hasn't been found yet, then to me that is a FTF for the 'team' of cachers that made plans to do it if that is what they want to do.

 

Joani and I don't personally count any of the group FTFs. We only count the ones we did as a solo team.

 

Meetings by chance I wouldn't count as a FTF. For example, when WoW was looking for a spyder woman cache, bullit arrived and found the cache first. I would call that a solo FTF.

 

But like others have said, the GC site doesn't keep track so it's not that big a deal. I personally rarely even say anything about it being a FTF in my online log because I don't like to brag about it, but that doesn't mean I don't find it exciting to go after FTFs.

 

--Marky

[+The Foote]

I've gotta agree.... I will put down that it was an FTF on my log.... but I don't count how many I have. Also if I went with a group then I would say co-FTF with the group. even if I was the one who put my grubby little paws on it. Personally the only satisfaction of the FTF is jsut the fun of racing for it. Not any stat... (especially since the stat doesn't exist!)

Edited April 12, 2005 by Camel680

[+The Rat]

I've always subscribed to the view that only one person can really get the FTF, although in group activities it is gracious to give credit in one's log to those who accompanied or helped. In some cases the one who actually spots it first should yield to a partner who did most of the work (e.g. one person solves a hard puzzle cache but goes with someone else to find it and the second person spots it first - he should point it out to person 1 to sign and log first.)

However, the gracious and genteel have long since passed from this sport. I gave up FTF hunting pretty quickly after it became apparent that people were playing games such as telling their friends about a new hide, including the coordinates, before it was approved, posting an identical cache page on their personal domain, giving hints to friends but not others, etc. I really don't get why people want to spoil the sport with such insane rivalries and inequitable treatment. It builds "cliques" that remind me of high school. The FTF is not a recognized stat and shouldn't be. It is really in the mind of the logger only, so I suppose if it makes you happy, go for it, but don't expect anyone else considers it an accomplishment.

And yes, MotorBug you do need to get a life.

[+boulter]

FYI to our hacker friends:

 

make your own google map

One of the great things about Google maps is it has its roots in XML. To translate for the non-web developers out there, it basically means Google maps are user hackable. This how-to will show you how to make your own annotated Google map from your own GPS data. Plus, you’ll be able to tie in images and video to create an interactive multimedia map. We’ll walk you through the steps we took to generate an annotated map of a walk we took recently through our hometown, now that it’s actually starting to get warm enough to want to walk about!

 

Doesn't this beg for a geocaching implementation?

I actually toyed with using this in some of my tools, but I'm pretty sure that their data provider Navteq is freaking out about this right now. Google does not have a license allow this kind of thing and I wouldn't be surprised if it went away very soon.

 

It's too bad really, it would have been a great replacement for Tiger, which is the only free alternative out there.

[+boulter]

Perhaps it's "The smell of a virgin log sheet drives me insane! " (or some such statement from boulter on one of his FTF logs-- priceless!) Perhaps I need to get a life.

The exact quote is

 

"Ahh, I love the feel of a virgin logsheet. :-)"

 

You can add that to the list of my logs that dirty old men interpret as sexual references.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/log.aspx?LU...e5-61017406bb6c

 

For some reason FTFs are NOT one of the things I'm obsessed with, but it's nice to get one every once in a while.

[+nostrada]

Unless your FTF statistics can compete with the following example I would suggest to stop counting:

Who could it be?

 

[+JohnnyVegas]

As far as I'm concerned, the first logged post is the online representation of the FTF - and that said, I would suggest finding a cache and hitailing it to your computer to get that log in!

No. FTF is the first person to sign the log in the cache itself.

[+budd-rdc]

I think FTF should belong to one person, but atc (who rarely if ever posts on forums) believes it can be shared. As mentioned above, there are cases where the FTF hunt involves pre-planned teamwork where credit ought to be given to more than one person.

 

But where's the fun in WoW/MotorBug/winini/bullit sharing an FTF?

[+CapnFinder]

Well, dang! At least I made it onto boulter's SFBAGL list for a few days before the criteria changed. The list was getting pretty long. Guess it'll take another month to get back on it, unless the criteria changes faster than I can find 'em.

 

BTW, thanks boulter for making this list. It helps me convince the copilot that I'm not as badly addicted as others.

[+Marky]

Well, dang! At least I made it onto boulter's SFBAGL list for a few days before the criteria changed.

Yeah, the overall leader board list got changed to 2000 as well (there are currently 87 people on the list).

 

--Marky

[+CC]

I'll pipe in on FTF. I have just a couple. Any whether easy or a 45 minute hike, they are all exciting. I even had a non-cacher (but a relative expert on the GPS system) and he was excited to be looking for a FTF.

 

Looking for a cache in groups, typically, gives you an advantage of where not to look. So while you may be the first to touch it, the others in the group have contributed significantly by narrowing your focus. Seems sort of odd to have, say, 70 percent of the search area eliminated and then go woohoo I found it, neener neeener! OK, maybe thats what I do, still... I think the log should be signed first by the "8:45 pm GC group".

 

CC

[+boulter]

Well, dang! At least I made it onto boulter's SFBAGL list for a few days before the criteria changed. The list was getting pretty long. Guess it'll take another month to get back on it, unless the criteria changes faster than I can find 'em.

 

BTW, thanks boulter for making this list. It helps me convince the copilot that I'm not as badly addicted as others.

It was getting kinda crazy maintaining it with 300. Since people are placing 10 caches at a time instead of 1 or 2 these days, 300 isn't what it used to be. So I set to 500 for now. I was expecting to hear a bunch of complaints, but I guess people don't mind.

 

The World Leaderboard has not changed. It has always been 2000.

[+Marky]

The World Leaderboard has not changed. It has always been 2000.

I must have been thinking of the 'other' leaderboard and had never noticed yours stopped at 2000.

 

--Marky

[+Kealia]

It was getting kinda crazy maintaining it with 300. Since people are placing 10 caches at a time instead of 1 or 2 these days, 300 isn't what it used to be. So I set to 500 for now. I was expecting to hear a bunch of complaints, but I guess people don't mind.

dadgum, I just passed 300 about 2 weeks ago. 200 more to go to make the list now - curse you Boulter!

 

 

EDIT: hehe - it didn't like the word I used (not harsh) so it got replaced with 'dadgum'.

Edited April 13, 2005 by kealia

[nordic explorer]

Hi SF Bay Area cachers!

 

I am studying geocaching (as part of my personal research) and currently looking for volunteers in the North Bay Area, California to go geocaching with me. I am trying to build an understanding on how geocachers experience the hunt and hiding of caches and going geocahing with you is really the only way to do this properly.

 

All participants will take part in a sweepstakes of geocaching related items. So do participate! I encourage you to be active. To participate or ask for additional information, send me e-mail to matti@sims.berkeley.edu or reply to this post.

 

All the information that I obtain about you during the study will be kept confidential; names, whether real or player names, will never be used in any publication.

 

Please feel free to pass this information along. And good hunting!

 

Yours,

Matti Rantanen (nordic explorer)

Researcher, Visiting Scholar at University of California, Berkeley

School of Information Management and Systems (SIMS)

[+mjp303]

Since people are placing 10 caches at a time instead of 1 or 2 these days, 300 isn't what it used to be.

So, I'm kinda curious about this comment, Boulter...Do you think that the standards for hiding a cache ought to be more difficult to obtain? If so, how? I'd be curious as to what anyone else thinks, too.