Distance cache from coordinates

[Stephan_1977]

What is the maximum distance a cache (the actual case/box) can be hidden from the coordinates given for that geocache? I think I read somewhere that it is 10 meters (about 30 feet), but I can't find that information anymore. Does someone know?

[Stephan_1977]

Of course, but if I'm trying to find a cache that is not spot on, how far away can/may it be away from the coordinates?

[+barefootjeff]

The Guidelines say "The cache owner must visit the geocache location to get accurate coordinates with a GPS-enabled device" so the CO should try to make their coordinates as accurate as they can. But some locations can be difficult, such as in a steep gully that has only a narrow view of the sky, so there's no hard and fast rule. It's not acceptable to have deliberately inaccurate coordinates just to make the cache harder to find.

[+niraD]

2 hours ago, barefootjeff said:

It's not acceptable to have deliberately inaccurate coordinates just to make the cache harder to find.

Exactly. Under ideal conditions, a consumer GPSr will be accurate to about 3m (10ft). That applies both to the seeker's device, and to the cache owner’s device, so you may find the container 5-6m (16-20ft) from ground zero under ideal conditions. But that happens normally. Cache owners should never use deliberately inaccurate coordinates to make a cache harder to find. That doesn't make the cache harder to find; it just makes people search in the wrong place.

Of course, under less than ideal conditions, both GPSr readings can be much less accurate. I've found caches in locations where my device's Estimated Position Error (EPE) was more than 30m (100ft). But the cache owner had the same issue, explained that in the description, and provided good hints to help narrow down the cache location so seekers could find it.

[+Max and 99]

5 hours ago, Stephan_1977 said:

What is the maximum distance a cache (the actual case/box) can be hidden from the coordinates given for that geocache? I think I read somewhere that it is 10 meters (about 30 feet), but I can't find that information anymore. Does someone know?

 

4 hours ago, HHL said:

Ideally, the cache should be hidden spot on.

Unfortunately some people deliberately provide coordinates that are "close by" to "make it more challenging". This is what I thought the OP was asking. As HHL stated, spot on is ideal!

[+Max and 99]

4 hours ago, Stephan_1977 said:

Of course, but if I'm trying to find a cache that is not spot on, how far away can/may it be away from the coordinates?

13 miles away. 

I know that's not what you meant, but it happens way too often. 

Edited November 22, 2021 by Max and 99

[+kunarion]

6 hours ago, Stephan_1977 said:

What is the maximum distance a cache (the actual case/box) can be hidden from the coordinates given for that geocache? I think I read somewhere that it is 10 meters (about 30 feet), but I can't find that information anymore. Does someone know?

 

If you read "10 meters", it might have been about when to put the GPS away, and start looking for hiding spots.  If the precision of both the hider's and hunter's GPS is 5 meters, the cache could be as far as 10 meters (or 30 feet) from where the cache hunter is standing.  Both can obtain better readings with patience and practice.

 

There are also guidelines for placing certain cache types.  Mystery caches for example can't be more than 3.2km (2 miles) from the posted "bogus coordinates".  In any case, the final coordinates for a cache should be as accurate as possible.

[+cerberus1]

8 hours ago, Stephan_1977 said:

What is the maximum distance a cache (the actual case/box) can be hidden from the coordinates given for that geocache? I think I read somewhere that it is 10 meters (about 30 feet), but I can't find that information anymore. Does someone know?

 

6 hours ago, Stephan_1977 said:

Of course, but if I'm trying to find a cache that is not spot on, how far away can/may it be away from the coordinates?

 

I haven't found a cache that was "spot on" since starting this hobby...

When some see "spot on", they don't notice that their location accuracy is off, maybe up-to 26'.   

There is no "maximum" distance, we're supposed to provide coordinates as accurately as possible.

Civilian GPS is still only accurate to around 10 feet, but that accuracy depends on both you and the CO, so you could be off "up to" maybe 30 feet...

Here, just a few iron ore rocks in the area could throw you off in signal bounce, and you could be 6' one minute, and 40 the next.

When we're walking, that GPSr gets put away when the reading is 25 feet or so, and we start looking.

[Stephan_1977]

Thank for all the replies, they are very helpful.

[Darwin473]

On 11/23/2021 at 2:08 AM, cerberus1 said:

I haven't found a cache that was "spot on" since starting this hobby...

 

I was hunting for one cache, followed the GPS to GZ, looked down and I was almost standing on it! Though this was one of my earlier finds, so I suspect that this was more of a case of dumb luck rather than the wonders of technology! 

[+niraD]

1 hour ago, Unit473L said:

I was hunting for one cache, followed the GPS to GZ, looked down and I was almost standing on it! Though this was one of my earlier finds, so I suspect that this was more of a case of dumb luck rather than the wonders of technology! 

I've lost count of the number of times that I have arrived at GZ, set down my backpack (or parked my bike) to mark The Spot®, searched and searched and expanded my search radius, started over at The Spot®, and found my backpack (or bike) sitting on top of the cache.

[+mysterion604]

A cache of mine went beyond this "10 m" idea, much more. However, the hint was very explicit that from the resolved coords "go X heading, Y number of metres" to a very clear and obvious hide location that was basically within line of sight. The whole thing was a multi designed to guide people like a letterbox, so being told "go here, look there" was not unusual.

(I could have just put the coordinates directly on the hide, but the cache's theme would have been lost.)

[+Max and 99]

36 minutes ago, mysterion604 said:

(I could have just put the coordinates directly on the hide, but the cache's theme would have been lost.)

A cache like that in my area would have a fair chance of being archived by a reviewer.  Not everyone reads hints. Traditional caches should be at the posted coordinates, not intentionally elsewhere.

[+mysterion604]

Well, the reviewer here was fine with it. Mind you, the circumstances for that made sense, and the description also said very clearly "when you reach the coordinates, read the hint". 

 

 

[+Max and 99]

7 minutes ago, mysterion604 said:

Well, the reviewer here was fine with it. Mind you, the circumstances for that made sense, and the description also said very clearly "when you reach the coordinates, read the hint". 

 

 

Many people don't read the description. Many people don't read the hints. 

Traditional geocaches are supposed to be at the posted coordinates not intentionally somewhere else. 

 

[+mysterion604]

It's not traditional, it's a multi.

[+mysterion604]

2 minutes ago, HHL said:

Why didn't you list GC9DJFN as a multi cache, which it definitely is? A traditional cache has to be at the listed coordinates. Full stop

 

I'm talking about GC99H2V.

 

[+Max and 99]

30 minutes ago, mysterion604 said:

It's not traditional, it's a multi.

I consider that a little sidetracked from the OP, about how accurate the coordinates need to be. 

[+mysterion604]

Point is: Distance is not an absolute; context is important.

 

 

[+niraD]

5 hours ago, mysterion604 said:

Point is: Distance is not an absolute; context is important.

A mystery/puzzle cache can be up to 2 miles from the posted coordinates. A multi-cache can be any distance from the posted coordinates, which are the coordinates for the first stage. But in neither case are the posted coordinates expected to be the location of the cache.

 

This thread is about "the maximum distance a cache (the actual case/box) can be hidden from the coordinates given for that geocache" (emphasis added).

[+Wadcutter]

There use to be a cache not too far from me.  The coords took you to the middle of an old cemetery that was almost 3 acres in size and surrounded by trees and trees within the cemetery.  In the description the hider wrote the cache was not at the given coordinates but within 150 ft "in the usual hiding place".   That meant it was anywhere within a 300 ft diameter circle.  When brought to the attention of the reviewer it was immediately archived.  The hider must have changed the description after the cache was approved.  I can't see any reviewer who is doing their job approving such a cache.  The reviewer for this area is pretty good so I can only guess the hider changed the cache after it was approved.

[+K13]

On 12/10/2021 at 2:33 AM, mysterion604 said:

 

I'm talking about GC99H2V.

 

If I attempted this geocache, and arrived at the final calculated coordinates, searched only to find nothing, I would be disappointed. IF I then read your hint (which I seldom do) I would be very upset and log a NA immediately.

 

You should probably add the field puzzle attribute to this cache. Or have the final coordinates actually take the finder to GZ.

[Granpappa]

I am still a beginner, but here is my experience so far: I have found about 40 caches. Although many were close to the posted coordinates, very few have been "Spot On". One was 40 feet from where my GPS said it should be, most were within about 10 feet, and a couple were in between those extremes. I went to one cache where the CO said in the description that he had rechecked the coordinates several times with different devices (the reason for adding that to the description will become apparent). My GPS placed the coordinates in the middle of the nearby street. I knew that couldn't be right, so I kept looking and eventually found it. From reading the logs of other cachers, I found that many of them had the same experience with that cache. I don't know enough about the factors that can effect GPS accuracy to understand why that happened. I have just learned to accept these discrepancies as part of the game.

[+barefootjeff]

3 minutes ago, Granpappa said:

I am still a beginner, but here is my experience so far: I have found about 40 caches. Although many were close to the posted coordinates, very few have been "Spot On". One was 40 feet from where my GPS said it should be, most were within about 10 feet, and a couple were in between those extremes. I went to one cache where the CO said in the description that he had rechecked the coordinates several times with different devices (the reason for adding that to the description will become apparent). My GPS placed the coordinates in the middle of the nearby street. I knew that couldn't be right, so I kept looking and eventually found it. From reading the logs of other cachers, I found that many of them had the same experience with that cache. I don't know enough about the factors that can effect GPS accuracy to understand why that happened. I have just learned to accept these discrepancies as part of the game.

 

I don't know whether this is the same as what you experienced, but a few years ago I was searching for a cache on a hillside. My GPSr (a Garmin 62s) kept pointing me to a large tree but I couldn't find anything there, and eventually after widening my search circle I found the cache some ten to fifteen metres away. The curious thing was that my GPSr was again showing close to zero metres, and after a bit of to and fro, I confirmed that those two locations indeed showed the same coordinates. Some sort of strange reflection or diffraction off the ridge, I suppose.

[+Max and 99]

Others will see this traditional cache listing and think it's allowed. They're not wrong. 

 

 

"if you read the 2018 update in the description, it’s clearly states the cache is not at the posted coordinates -

Geocache is NOT at the posted coordinates; take a look around, it should take you 5 minutes max to locate the hiding spot."

 

 

 

Edited December 18, 2021 by Max and 99
Added quotes

[+niraD]

1 hour ago, barefootjeff said:

 

I don't know whether this is the same as what you experienced, but a few years ago I was searching for a cache on a hillside. My GPSr (a Garmin 62s) kept pointing me to a large tree but I couldn't find anything there, and eventually after widening my search circle I found the cache some ten to fifteen metres away. The curious thing was that my GPSr was again showing close to zero metres, and after a bit of to and fro, I confirmed that those two locations indeed showed the same coordinates. Some sort of strange reflection or diffraction off the ridge, I suppose.

I had a similar experience once. My friend and I searched fruitlessly for some time. The hint didn't seem very specific, so it wasn't much help. Finally, we read several past logs, many of which mentioned that the cache was 60ft north of GZ. We walked 60ft north of GZ, found a location that matched the hint perfectly, and found the cache right away.

 

Before we left, I took new coordinates so I could include them in my log. The coordinates I took there were virtually identical to the published coordinates, the coordinates that had taken me 60ft south of the cache location. I'm still not sure what could cause that, because we were on the top of a hill with an unobstructed view of the sky. There shouldn't have been any multipath errors or anything like that.

[+kunarion]

10 hours ago, niraD said:

I had a similar experience once. My friend and I searched fruitlessly for some time. The hint didn't seem very specific, so it wasn't much help. Finally, we read several past logs, many of which mentioned that the cache was 60ft north of GZ. We walked 60ft north of GZ, found a location that matched the hint perfectly, and found the cache right away.

 

Before we left, I took new coordinates so I could include them in my log. The coordinates I took there were virtually identical to the published coordinates, the coordinates that had taken me 60ft south of the cache location. I'm still not sure what could cause that, because we were on the top of a hill with an unobstructed view of the sky. There shouldn't have been any multipath errors or anything like that.

 

Using my Garmin Oregon, I have sometimes gotten a reading that GZ is consistently in a spot 80 feet away (for example) and upon arrival, now it's very definitetly 80 feet back where I started.  Something like the effect you've seen, and I just chalk it up to 'hard to get a good reading here" and try not to think about it.

 

But when I've seen it point to the middle of the road, and I later go check it on Google at home, the icon is in fact 110% of the time in the middle of the road.