Same exact caches have different visibility between different basic member accounts on the same day

[+Mickey4jes]

Hello! I lead weekly intro to geocaching workshops to bring newbies geocaching for the first time. Over the past 2 weekends I've ran into issues where several geocaches (2/2 and under) that appear on the map as green for every other basic member, appear as grey for 3 different basic members. The other 77 newbie basic members I have brought geocaching for the first time this summer did not experience this.

 

This is not a basic vs premium member issue, but an issue/bug with only some new basic accounts. They all have the latest version of the app since they downloaded the app in the past week for the first time.

It makes it difficult to take groups of newbies geocaching together when not everyone can see the same available geocaches. Newbies that can't use their phone to read or search for the same caches look checked out and are less engaged in the workshop. The only thing I can isolate is that these geocaches are perhaps 2 star difficulty geocaches. I don't know how to troubleshoot this in my small groups of newbies besides having them sign up for a second geocaching account and hope that the new account fixes the problem.

I have attached side by side images of the difference. The left image is what has occurred for 77 newbies since June. The right image is what is occurring for 3 basic members compared to the 77 basic members who see the map on the left. The problem started occurring for basic members last weekend and this weekend. Notice the difference in cache availability between these two basic accounts on the right side of the park in the center (Golden Gate Park). At the same time, the geocaching accounts that see less traditional caches than the other 77 basic members have virtuals and earthcaches visible to them. (See the  ghost icons in the upper park (the Presidio National Park))

 

The example caches in this situation are:

• GC8J81F- 2/1.5
• GC8E4N2- 2/1.5
• GC82KTJ- 2/2
• GC64EYR- 2/1.5

They are all 2 star difficulty, with 1.5 or 2 terrain.

 

The virtuals and earthcaches that become visible to 3 of the 80 basic members are:

• GCJAVD- 1/1
• GC3BPP5 4.5/3
• GC2Q97N 2/2

 

As I will be continuing my weekly intro to geocaching workshops over the next few months and introducing dozens of newbies to geocaching, I would love to know how to troubleshoot this during my upcoming weekly geocaching workshops to ensure that my future newbies have a wonderful first experience! 

 

 

[Moun10Bike]

There is currently a test underway investigating different restriction levels in the apps. It appears that some of the people in your workshop are in different cohorts of the test. The EarthCache with high D/T ratings (GC3BPP5) should not be accessible to any of them, though (unless they were looking at things this weekend, when all ECs were made available to all users).

 

There is no workaround for this short of waiting out the test, which should be complete within 2 weeks.

[+Mickey4jes]

Thank you for the speedy response @Moun10Bike. I will continue to troubleshoot this by asking my attendees to create a second geocaching account for my workshops in the next 2 weeks if this occurs during my workshops. That was the hack that worked on Saturday.

 

That 4.5/3 earthcache was visible on Saturday.

[+Max and 99]

4 minutes ago, Mickey4jes said:

Thank you for the speedy response @Moun10Bike. I will continue to troubleshoot this by asking my attendees to create a second geocaching account for my workshops in the next 2 weeks if this occurs during my workshops. That was the hack that worked on Saturday.

 

That 4.5/3 earthcache was visible on Saturday.

Yes for basic members all non premium EarthCaches were visible on the app this weekend for the souvenir. 

[Lynx Humble]

9 hours ago, Moun10Bike said:

There is currently a test underway investigating different restriction levels in the apps. It appears that some of the people in your workshop are in different cohorts of the test. The EarthCache with hit D/T ratings (GC3BPP5) should not be accessible to any of them, though (unless they were looking at things this weekend, when all ECs were made available to all users).

 

There is no workaround for this short of waiting out the test, which should be complete within 2 weeks.

Shouldn't those kind of test that change functionality for some member been announced in the release note section before being released?

[Moun10Bike]

3 hours ago, Lynx Humble said:

Shouldn't those kind of test that change functionality for some member been announced in the release note section before being released?

 

No. Not only do these sorts of tests not involve a new release (all of the restrictions are done at the API level), but virtually none of the audience it targets (brand new basic members in a select few countries) will ever visit the forums.

[+Mickey4jes]

Hello! I'm running into this issue again with newbies not being able to see caches that are harder than 1.5 difficulty in the app. Is this a permanent change or a test?

[Keystone]

I see that you are located in the USA.  There is another test underway, similar to what Moun10Bike described in his post from 2021, which explains the different behaviors for new official App users in the USA, as you observed.

[+Mickey4jes]

Thank you Keystone. That’s very helpful. I noticed that the test applied to a new basic user account that I created but not to my old basic account. 
Will this test continue for new basic accounts for the next few weeks?
I have a lot of upcoming geocaching workshops in the next 2 months and this has significantly impacted what geocaches are available in tourist areas of San Francisco since we can’t make geocaches too easy or they’ll be muggled!

 

It was delightful to see that easy 1 and 1.5 difficulty multicaches and virtuals are visible to basic members. Is that part of the same test or a new thing? I am working on hiding new 1.5 or less geocaches so there’s something for basic members to find nearby and knowing whether the easy multi visibility is staying or just a test will influence what I hide! 

Edited October 4, 2022 by Mickey4jes

[+soleilnyc]

I just sent feedback last night around this kind of situation, though approaching it from a different angle. I was encouraged by the rep to post it in the forum, but then I saw your similar post, OP.

I started geocaching early 2019. One of my local cachers encouraged me to join Premium. I looked at the map and saw that there were so few Premium caches around me anyway, it didnt seem worth it. So I never signed up. For almost 4 years.

Last week, we were going for a little drive and I decided to pay for Premium to make the most of our time. Imagine my surprise when the map was suddenly populated with HUNDREDS of caches. I though to myself, "Oh these are probably new hides because of the pandemic. Nope. Some of them were almost 15 years old. 

So what I realized is that not only does Basic restrict access to some caches, it restricts the knowledge that most caches exist at all. If I had known there were so many caches around me, I'd have started Premium years ago.

It's a strange marketing tactic, since usually you want to tell people exactly how much they are missing without subscribing. All these caches should be visible, even if they are greyed out.

The photo below is of a section of power trail near me. About a 3rd of the caches are not displayed. 

In my immediate neighborhood, basic shows 3 accessible to me, and 2 grayed out. In Premium, there are 13 total. 13! That would have been worth paying for!

[+barefootjeff]

6 hours ago, soleilnyc said:

So what I realized is that not only does Basic restrict access to some caches, it restricts the knowledge that most caches exist at all. If I had known there were so many caches around me, I'd have started Premium years ago.

 

Back when I started as a basic member in 2013, the Browse map on the website would show PMO caches when zoomed out, but they'd disappear as you zoomed in so that their location couldn't be pinned down. I don't know whether that functionality still exists but it was, in part, something that encouraged me to switch to premium. There are many other benefits to being a PM than just PMO caches, such as instant notifications, PQs, being able to give FPs to those caches I've really enjoyed and just supporting the running costs of the service, so there's no way I'd consider going back to BM even if there were no PMO caches to find.

[+soleilnyc]

1 minute ago, barefootjeff said:

There are many other benefits to being a PM than just PMO caches, such as instant notifications, PQs, being able to give FPs to those caches I've really enjoyed and just supporting the running costs of the service, so there's no way I'd consider going back to BM even if there were no PMO caches to find.

Totally. But it's something that someone new to geocaching would have no idea of the value of. The website/app says something like "Upgrade to access this cache" or "Upgrade to premium to have access to more caches" but since you see grayed out ones, you think that's what you're paying for. And if it looks like there are very few, then it doesn't seem attractive. 
I think I know what you mean by zooming in and out...my son's basic account doesnt show that, though. 
OP would probably get so many people hooked on Premium permanently if they knew how much they had around them

[+Goldenwattle]

1 hour ago, barefootjeff said:

Back when I started as a basic member in 2013, the Browse map on the website would show PMO caches when zoomed out, but they'd disappear as you zoomed in so that their location couldn't be pinned down.

When I started geocaching in 2012, I don't remember seeing the paid membership caches on the map; only the basic ones. Therefore it was a pleasant surprise when I got a paid membership and all these other caches appeared on the map. I thought I had cleaned out all the caches in walking and easy cycling distance. It was like Christmas.

 

(I paid for a membership after I bought a GPS. I had found 180 caches as a basic member, without a GPS or a phone.)

[lomoso]

I am having the same problem as identified by the OP.
I signed up for a basic account 3 months ago and my daughter has also signed up in the last week. However, there are caches visible to her but greyed out for me. We both have the latest version of the app. This is very frustrating as although I can sign the physical log, my stats on the app are of course reduced. Hopefully someone can help!

[Keystone]

5 hours ago, lomoso said:

This is very frustrating as although I can sign the physical log, my stats on the app are of course reduced. Hopefully someone can help!

 

You can still log your finds on the Geocaching.com website.

[lomoso]

Thanks for the tip!
But I would still like to know why this problem is occurring and how it can be fixed.

[+the Seagnoid]

On 10/12/2021 at 2:01 PM, Moun10Bike said:

There is currently a test underway investigating different restriction levels in the apps. It appears that some of the people in your workshop are in different cohorts of the test. The EarthCache with high D/T ratings (GC3BPP5) should not be accessible to any of them, though (unless they were looking at things this weekend, when all ECs were made available to all users).

 

There is no workaround for this short of waiting out the test, which should be complete within 2 weeks.

Seriously? Groundspeak are testing new features in live? What happened to your test environment?

[Moun10Bike]

Just now, the Seagnoid said:

Seriously? Groundspeak are testing new features in live? What happened to your test environment?

 

Yes, seriously. It's called an A/B test and is a pretty standard method of testing out these sorts of tweaks.

[+juniorwoodchuckhuey]

I encountered the issue described in this thread today: new accounts being restricted to D1.5 or less, when using the app.

 

Any indication of how much longer the testing will be, and whether it is permanent or not?

Edited November 1, 2022 by juniorwoodchuckhuey

[cat0001]

It might have something to do with android / Ios devices ? Different caches are seen on android and Ios devices.