Sorting Logs - IMHO, a Terrible Idea

[+TeamRabbitRun]

I knew it was going to happen.

Today, I see a "Sort By" option for logs on cache pages. (Maybe it's been there for a while and I just haven't noticed it.)

In...

 

 

...I predicted that it was coming and how harmful I thought it would be to the hobby.

Expect to see more simplistic logs from people who don't think they can possibly compete or don't to want to compete in log composition.

Expect a push toward making that 'sort' option persistent, then expect statistics.

[+CAVinoGal]

6 hours ago, TeamRabbitRun said:

Today, I see a "Sort By" option for logs on cache pages. (Maybe it's been there for a while and I just haven't noticed it.)

 

I don't think it has been there prior to today - it's new.

 

And I likely won't be using it - I like seeing the most recent logs for a number of reasons.  And I'm not seeing many "upvotes" for caches in my area anyway.  I pretty much ignore that part of the log....

Edited October 8, 2021 by CAVinoGal
typo correction

[RuideAlmeida]

5 hours ago, TeamRabbitRun said:

Expect to see more simplistic logs from people who don't think they can possibly compete or don't to want to compete in log composition.

 

 

Probably not if many people start to sort the logs by "Best story", by instance.

 

[+Hügh]

22 minutes ago, CAVinoGal said:

And I'm not seeing many "upvotees" for caches in my area anyway.

 

I was going to say: sorting a list of zeroes is pointless. 

[+TeamRabbitRun]

18 minutes ago, RuideAlmeida said:

 

 

Probably not if many people start to sort the logs by "Best story", by instance.

 

 

Sorry, I don't understand your point.

If it becomes the norm to sort by "Best Story", then people who aren't great writers will realize that their stuff won't ever be seen, so they'll be more inclined to file more "TFTC" logs.

Please read what I wrote about this in the past.

 

All my opinion. I think the company's not doing the hobby any favors with this one, ESPECIALLY if they make the sorting persistent, as in, giving people the option to set a standard sort order for reading logs in their profile, which I understand has been asked for.

[+Max and 99]

Maybe I'm just imagining it but I thought the sort logs feature by favorite and best story have been there for a while. ? 

 

Edit: Is this what we're talking about?

 

 

Edited October 8, 2021 by Max and 99

[+CAVinoGal]

It was much more subtle, and so not as noticeable.  The layout is what has changed.

 

[+Max and 99]

24 minutes ago, CAVinoGal said:

It was much more subtle, and so not as noticeable.  The layout is what has changed.

 

Yes, the layout has changed.

[+ChriBli]

Is this really the intended layout? I thought there was something wrong. Is the checkmark really supposed to cover the text, and the box to extend to the window edge and beyond? Strange...

[+lee737]

Oh no..... I can see logs ending up like a set of YouTube or Facebook comments, scrambled around, ordered with some algorithm and basically nonsensical.....

[+Max and 99]

4 minutes ago, ChriBli said:

Is this really the intended layout? I thought there was something wrong. Is the checkmark really supposed to cover the text, and the box to extend to the window edge and beyond? Strange...

I doubt this is the intended layout. I suspect it'll be fixed.

[+barefootjeff]

19 minutes ago, lee737 said:

Oh no..... I can see logs ending up like a set of YouTube or Facebook comments, scrambled around, ordered with some algorithm and basically nonsensical.....

 

You mean like these?

 

 

Clearly all great stories and helpful too, if I could understand what they're trying to say.

[RuideAlmeida]

2 hours ago, TeamRabbitRun said:

If it becomes the norm to sort by "Best Story", then people who aren't great writers will realize that their stuff won't ever be seen, so they'll be more inclined to file more "TFTC" logs.

 

And don't you consider also the opposite... that those folks will work to improve their writing?

The old story of the wine glass... some will always see it half-empty, while others will see half-full. I'm one of those.

[+barefootjeff]

1 hour ago, RuideAlmeida said:

3 hours ago, TeamRabbitRun said:

If it becomes the norm to sort by "Best Story", then people who aren't great writers will realize that their stuff won't ever be seen, so they'll be more inclined to file more "TFTC" logs.

 

And don't you consider also the opposite... that those folks will work to improve their writing?

The old story of the wine glass... some will always see it half-empty, while others will see half-full. I'm one of those.

 

Either way, unless someone goes back and looks at their old logs, they'll never know whether they've been upvoted or not. There's no feedback given to the log-writer.

[+GeoElmo6000]

I can't imagine people looking at logs for anything other than the default reverse chronological order.  Did someone find it recently?  Were there any issues?  Any clues I can glean from recent logs?  

 

10 hours ago, TeamRabbitRun said:

...I predicted that it was coming and how harmful I thought it would be to the hobby.

 

The sky will still be where it's supposed to be tomorrow.

[+lee737]

1 hour ago, GeoElmo6000 said:

I can't imagine people looking at logs for anything other than the default reverse chronological order.  Did someone find it recently?  Were there any issues?  Any clues I can glean from recent logs?  

I can't either. To be honest in the majority of caches we find (and I suppose this could be extrapolated across a lot of other cachers) we don't look at any logs at all. For tricky puzzles, long hikes, involved multis etc we do, and will peruse through a lot of logs looking for longer ones that probably contain some helpful info.

[+thebruce0]

I foresee sorting by Helpful to be more used and useful than sorting by Great Story.  As long as it's still chronological, then using that sort would give you logs that someone potentially noticed provide tips or guidance the CO didn't in their listing. And yes, it relies on someone else giving that vote, but everyone knows that nature of those votes, so it can have some amount of value. And of course to others, zero.  I think seeing the option to sort by these categories as harmful to the game is crying the sky is falling. meh. 

[+barefootjeff]

5 hours ago, thebruce0 said:

I foresee sorting by Helpful to be more used and useful than sorting by Great Story.  As long as it's still chronological, then using that sort would give you logs that someone potentially noticed provide tips or guidance the CO didn't in their listing. And yes, it relies on someone else giving that vote, but everyone knows that nature of those votes, so it can have some amount of value. And of course to others, zero.  I think seeing the option to sort by these categories as harmful to the game is crying the sky is falling. meh. 

 

I haven't yet come across a cache with multiple upvoted logs, but my assumption is that sorting by Helpful or Great Story would order them by the number of upvotes, so the most upvoted log would be at the top regardless of any chronological order.

[+thebruce0]

On 10/9/2021 at 4:04 PM, barefootjeff said:

On 10/9/2021 at 10:49 AM, thebruce0 said:

I foresee sorting by Helpful to be more used and useful than sorting by Great Story.  As long as it's still chronological, then using that sort would give you logs that someone potentially noticed provide tips or guidance the CO didn't in their listing. And yes, it relies on someone else giving that vote, but everyone knows that nature of those votes, so it can have some amount of value. And of course to others, zero.  I think seeing the option to sort by these categories as harmful to the game is crying the sky is falling. meh. 

 

I haven't yet come across a cache with multiple upvoted logs, but my assumption is that sorting by Helpful or Great Story would order them by the number of upvotes, so the most upvoted log would be at the top regardless of any chronological order.

 

Chronological as secondary. The most recent helpful or great story would be first. The oldest non-voted log would be last.

Point being: Older 'helpful' logs may no longer b e relevant, so selecting to sort by helpful should keep chronological sorting [after sorting by helpful].

[+Chrysalides]

I'm not too impressed by the fact that the reason I noticed the new sort-by option is the messed up UI. I really don't see myself sorting by anything other than newest first, and fortunately uBlock Origin's eyedropper tool allows me to hide that element so I don't have to see it.

[+hzoi]

On 10/8/2021 at 8:52 AM, TeamRabbitRun said:

Expect to see more simplistic logs from people who don't think they can possibly compete or don't to want to compete in log composition.

 

Given that many of the longer logs seen today tend to be copy and paste logs about an entire week, month, or lifetime of geocaching (sometimes all three!), with perhaps one sentence thrown in at the end about a particular day, or (if fortune smiles) a particular geocache, this might be a good thing.

 

Unfortunately, those who are obsessed with padding their "log length" statistics without actually creating substance to go along with it will likely not change their habits. Unless, of course, they notice that no one ever votes their copy/paste word salad logs to be "helpful" or "great story. In which case the new voting system may actually help them reform their ways, n'est-ce pas?

[+Lynx Humble]

3 hours ago, hzoi said:

Unless, of course, they notice that no one ever votes their copy/paste word salad logs to be "helpful" or "great story. In which case the new voting system may actually help them reform their ways, n'est-ce pas?

There are no notifications when someone gives you an upvote so it's unlikely they will notice.

 

Not being in the app I wonder if more than 1% even use this feature.

[+SeekTheCache]

On 10/8/2021 at 9:56 PM, Max and 99 said:

I doubt this is the intended layout. I suspect it'll be fixed.

About that, funny thing I noticed: it depends on the browser you're using

 

Using the ancient IE

 

On Firefox and Edge for example

 

[+ChriBli]

5 hours ago, SeekTheCache said:

About that, funny thing I noticed: it depends on the browser you're using

 

Using the ancient IE

 

So Groundspeak uses IE for their website testing? That would explain a lot...

[+SeekTheCache]

2 hours ago, ChriBli said:

So Groundspeak uses IE for their website testing? That would explain a lot...

Your words, not mine

[+thebruce0]

On 10/13/2021 at 9:44 AM, SeekTheCache said:

Using the ancient IE

 

 

 

Even that I find hard to believe is the intended appearance... I don't think I've ever seen a multi-select field look and work like that one would! 

 

I think though the first platforms to test new UI development would be mobile device browsers, as hq seems to tend to cater first to mobile devices, then desktop browsers... but clearly more testing needs to be done across all those browsers before release. =/

[+bflentje]

On 10/13/2021 at 2:18 PM, ChriBli said:

So Groundspeak uses IE for their website testing? That would explain a lot...

 

I would assume any viable implementation would include testing every major browser, even IE. So if something is wrong I wouldn't jump to conclusions.

[+ChriBli]

51 minutes ago, bflentje said:

I would assume any viable implementation would include testing every major browser, even IE.

You wish...

[+Max and 99]

https://www.geocaching.com/blog/2022/04/top-upvoted-logs-cache-owner-appreciation/

[+MartyBartfast]

14 hours ago, Max and 99 said:

https://www.geocaching.com/blog/2022/04/top-upvoted-logs-cache-owner-appreciation/

And looking at the top voted logs they've selected one has 8 votes, all the rest have 4 or 5, if these are among the highest worldwide it doesn't look like the feature has really caught on.

 

[+Vooruit!]

On 10/19/2021 at 9:27 PM, bflentje said:

 

I would assume any viable implementation would include testing every major browser, even IE. So if something is wrong I wouldn't jump to conclusions.

IE is definitely not a major browser anymore, to the relief of developers all over the world and beyond. Good riddance to that horrible garbage.

[+ChriBli]

15 hours ago, Vooruit! said:

IE is definitely not a major browser anymore, to the relief of developers all over the world and beyond. Good riddance to that horrible garbage.

At least that issue since to be solved now, in Firefox it looks like this:

 

Not sure how it looks in IE...