NO Geocaches in Colorado Springs

[+Qaz]

I was wondering for the caching day that is coming up. What do you think?

 

If it would be a interesting idea to invite some of the local news to talk to us about how we feel about our local goverment? The local news has done some stories about geocaching and how great it is for people. Personally I think it would be interesting to see on the news and hopefully get some kind of a reply from the local goverment about geocaching. Since we are going to have a group together anyways we could show them that we are all level headed and not freaking out about what is going on.

 

Just a idea.

 

Qaz

 

Team Swing

[Squad51]

.

 

[This message was edited by Team Squad51 on July 29, 2002 at 09:02 PM.]

[Rickfur]

quote:

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Originally posted by Team Squad51:

April Fool's will take more than a weekend, especially since stage 2 has gone missing and we are working on replacing it! We have temporarily disabled April Fool's until we fix this. But if you hit stage one, and figure out where stage two is, email us with the coords you have figured out. If you are right, we'll email you the puzzle that will lead to stage 3...

---

 

dadgum, good thing I popped in... I printed these out a little while ago, and had no plans of checking it again... I'll hold off until it's active again...

 

I'll will nail kitty cache tho

 

quote:

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Black Forest Park

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Hmmmm... Lotsa land out there...

 

As far as media... Sounds like a good idea...

 

Contents Under Pressure...

[Rickfur]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Team Squad51:

April Fool's will take more than a weekend, especially since stage 2 has gone missing and we are working on replacing it! We have temporarily disabled April Fool's until we fix this. But if you hit stage one, and figure out where stage two is, email us with the coords you have figured out. If you are right, we'll email you the puzzle that will lead to stage 3...

---

 

dadgum, good thing I popped in... I printed these out a little while ago, and had no plans of checking it again... I'll hold off until it's active again...

 

I'll will nail kitty cache tho

 

quote:

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Black Forest Park

---

 

Hmmmm... Lotsa land out there...

 

As far as media... Sounds like a good idea...

 

Contents Under Pressure...

[+treemoss2]

So how come the liability argument used by the city is not of concern for the county parks?

 

There is a law in Colorado that absolves government from liability in the dangers of skiing. Why cannot the city adopt such a law? They could absolve themselves of liability (rightfully so too) of any injuries incurred while doing ALL of the things people do in parks.

Hey, they let you CLIMB and RAPELL in Garden of the Gods. You don't think that has some risk in it? And much more than geocaching. So there seems to be not only a discrepency here, but it more and more seems like the officials are just plain biased against geocaching.

I am all in agreement with lullabud's postings.

 

team Thin Air

[+Number 6]

One more try to help here - the reality of the safety of Geocaching is not relevant to the custodians of public property until the protection of their self interest can be demonstrated to them through the responsible incremental actions of constituents.

 

Skiers in Colorado have apparently done a very good job of doing that. Rock climbers and rappelers also seem to understand how to accomplish their goal. Perhaps a local climbing club was responsible for getting those activities permitted and would be willing to share lessons learned.

 

Be Seeing You!

[lullabud]

so, is it legal to geocache in colorado springs again? i haven't even gone geocaching since all this went down...

[Squad51]

Nope

[+ShinobiKaze]

Ok I was wondering if maybe you should have proposed the question what about clear containers that can be seen into....this might curb the fear that the city of Colorado Springs has about caches....I tried it with Boulder and they still removed my cache I had (Clear container) Their reasoning was safety of the environment...anyways jsut a thoguht you might want to ask the City of Colorado Springs....

[lullabud]

but i'm not exactly the lobbyist... arg, it just makes no sense. this is so disappointing. i paid for my membership, then the legality issue came up, then all the fires. not to mention we can't participate in travel bug now. you'd think colorado would want geocaching as (even a minor) tourist attraction. but, i think many things that the gov doesn't agree with. at least we still have the beauty of the virtual cache, like the kitty cache, happy rocks, etc.. =)

[+Zed]

Let me say that you cannot tell which way the train went simply by examining the tracks. Eschew Obfucation should be our motto. The obvious fact is that the situation could go either way. Remember, caching is like a waterfall that is upside down - with no water in it.

 

Ozzyjazz Geek

[+Team GPSaxophone]

It is unfortunate that The City of Colorado Springs has rejected Geocaching at this time.

Some cities allow it, others don't. Many state and county parks allow it, National Parks do not.

 

This thread in the General section deals with the same issue. The govering body of the Arkansas State Parks was approached in a professional manner. They allowed public opinion to be collected and used in their decisions. Ultimately they decided in favor of limited Geocaching: Each cache must be removed (or relocated) after 4 months. Earlier than that if damage is being done to the surrounding area. Each cache must have a permit issued by the park so that the rangers may monitor it, etc.

 

I think all of the cachers in the Springs should get together and write one properly formatted letter to the city. You could cite other cities that allow it (do a search here). You could also give them information on benefits of Geocaching (such as Trash Out) as well as the few drawbacks (social trails forming).

 

As a tourist travelling I-25 to Denver, I would have never known about the parks along the Fountain Creek Trail had it not been for Geocaching. Because I was stopped for a couple of hours on my last trip, I got hungry. I bought lunch and gas in Colorado Springs. Had I not stopped because of the park I found through Geocaching, I would have arrived in Denver sooner. My tax dollars went to the City of Colorado Springs instead of Denver. Geocaching actually helped your city earn money!

 

Good luck. You are lucky to live in such a beautiful city.

 

[This message was edited by Team GPSaxophone on January 11, 2003 at 02:49 PM.]

[+Canyonherder]

It is a shame that such a good activity is banned in some places. I would suggest that you contact all makers of GPS units to help in lobbying. They have a lot to lose of the ban sticks and spreads. Good luck.

 

Al Norris

[+greyjay]

I think the above suggestions are very very good. Why don't we as C.A.C.H.E. members get together and write up a good professional letter detailing what has been mentioned so far and deliver it to the appropriate public oficials? If it's worded correctly and is polite and informative, I'll be happy to sign on to it, at least electronically, since I am deployed with the Air Force until May.

 

Either way, action is far more preferred than complacentcy (SP) IMHO.

[Mr Ed]

The Co. Springs Parks Department has some very valid reasons behind their position. They have to consider all of those who may visit their parks and the potential downside of something going wrong.

 

It's an irresponsible attitude that every square inch of ground should be available for geocaching. It's the same mentality of those who think they should be able to ride their ATVs, dirt bikes, and mountain bikes evrywhere they want. It doesn't wash. As a society, we set restrictions all the time - speed limits, stop signs, traffic lights, etc. If you obey them, we have a society that respects one another and things can run smoothly. If you choose to disregard them, it ruins it for all of us.

 

If we want to continue to be able to enjoy geocaching, we have to learn to abide by the restrictions that may be placed on the activity. This is a big country, and even larger world. A few restrictions will not ruin it for anyone. But if you make waves and act juvenile, you will quickly find restrictions imposed at an increasing rate. And if you, then, think you're too good to respect those restrictions, you may find the activity banned altogether.

[+fizzymagic]

quote:

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Originally posted by Mr Ed:

And if you, then, think you're too good to respect those restrictions, you may find the activity banned altogether.

---

 

You didn't actually read the initial letter, did you?

 

It's often helpful to read the background before posting.

 

Have a nice day.

[TechnoKnight]

I'm new...very very new. And as such, I don't expect a few things: 1. Respect for anything I have to say, and 2. Or anyone even to take the small amount of time it would take to read my post.

 

That said, I have a few thoughts on what I have read here thus far.

 

Despite all the sides and opinions that the people here are throwing back and forth, it seems quite apparent to me that the first thing -all- one should do, if you/they have been doing it, would be to STOP using the degrading language.

 

I for one, do not like being referred to as an idiot, moron, or stupid person. And where I come from does not matter in the least. Perhaps it would help your opinion just that much more if you could debate with one another with out having to turn to putting another down...'Cause if you think about it: That's just plain stupid!

 

Ain't nothing gonna break-a my stride, nobody gonna slow me down, Oh No! I got to keep on movin'!

[+Seth!]

Ahem. Pardon the intrusion into your conversation. Does anybody have a photo of the GPS Control Center or whatever it is that you folks have there in Colorado Springs? I understand that you have the Mother Ship there but I cannot find any photos on the web. Is it a big satellite dish? A concrete bunker? If any of you have a photo or know where I can get one, please let me know.

 

Thanks,

Seth!

 

[+Seth!]

Gosh, did I kill the thread? Does this mean nobody has a photo or have you all been sworn to secrecy?

 

[+Team GPSaxophone]

There is no GPS station...it is just your imagination...

 

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This signature line intentionally left blank

[drofrockology]

i don't think the email fired of the the parks and rec dude was excessive. it's just one email from one person. very few admin-types take email seriously. but then, i don't worry to much about offending idiots. i'm not very liberal that way.

 

# # # # #

 

if you want to get the ban overturned, you're going to need to get your local paper, tv or news radio station to do a story on it.

 

i'm a radio news reporter. even if i weren't a geocacher, even if i didn't know what it was, i would love a story like this.

 

put together a news release. have somebody who is a writer do it. then call the station and ask to speak to the news director or a reporter. tell them what's up and that you'd like to fax, or email them the release. make sure you have a spokesperson who will sound literate. a woman would be your best bet.

 

do you have a local geocaching group?

 

if not, get one organized. we started one here in reno about 2 months ago. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gbesgeocachers/ so far, we have around 35 members, have had one event cache and have shared many ideas.

 

but, the best thing about a group like this is, you will have a network of people from various walks of life. one of them is going to be the perfect spokesperson. this will also give the tv or radio reporters a variety of people to talk to, maybe go on a hunt with them and see how begnine this activity actually is.

 

from there it won't take long for the reporter to make the parks and rec department look like fools.

 

good luck.

 

Have a day,

Monty

[+Highpointer]

Protect your caches: Make them "Members Only."

quote:

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Originally posted by montythemule:

Cache removal by land managers is happening in Arizona and California, too. What to do?

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Become a Geocaching.com Premium Member and make your caches "Members Only" caches. Therefore, the land managers would have to become Members in order to know where your caches are located and to read the cache descriptions.

 

Ken Akerman (a.k.a. Highpointer )

[coinprospector]

My other hobby is metal detecting. The county I used to live in declared metal off limits in all parks & schools. The local metal detecting club got together collected the findings from schools and parks and presented them to the county board. The board came back and changed their mind. The stuff that was being found is schools and parks were dangerous, drug needles, nails, thumb tacks, razor blades, oh yea actually found spikes purposely poised at the bottom of the slide. The county's compromise was issueing a permit. You need to read and agree with 10 guidelines that we already do and of course pay money. If you are a member of the club you automatically get the permit.

 

Yes lessons learned from other clubs should be applied. Start with the cache in / trash out and go from there. Maybe the permit states that you cannot sue the city for certain things...like snake bites.. just throwing out an idea.

 

Hmmm can they be sued for growing / cultavating poison oak?

just kidding.

 

Me.

[+TEAM 360]

Highpointer, I like your thinking about making caches "Members only", and I see you have changed yours to do just that. But don't you think that they could just send in the $30 to be members and still get the caches? I think they will, after all, they are spending much more than that to get the caches out of there.

Additionally, I was wondering if you are a member of the "Highpointer" club as well? Do they have any kind of policy about geocaches? Just curious if the Geocaching and Highpointer organizations have any policies that would clash.

[+Highpointer]

quote:

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Originally posted by TEAM 360:

Highpointer, I like your thinking about making caches "Members Only", and I see you have changed yours to do just that. But don't you think that they could just send in the $30 to be members and still get the caches?

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The agencies could do that, but not all agencies would do that. Making your caches "Members Only" is sort of like locking your car. It won't deter a serious thief from breaking into your car or stealing it, but it will deter some theives.

 

With the "Members Only" feature, you can also see who has viewed your cache through the "Read the audit log." Here is what it looks like for one of my caches, Thompson Peak:

 

Audit Log for

Thompson Peak

 

4/24/2003 8:17:57 AM Highpointer (17 times)

4/18/2003 6:05:17 PM fergivn

4/18/2003 5:24:03 PM skydiver (4 times)

(other names follow below . . .)

 

If you see a suspicious name or name of a regulatory agency in the Audit Log, then you know that some nefarious activity may be happening, so you can take proper action to reduce the risk of losing your cache.

 

quote:

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Originally posted by TEAM 360:

Additionally, I was wondering if you are a member of the "Highpointer" club as well?

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I am a member of the Highpointers Club. We don't have policies that clash. We both respect private property, and the Highpointers Club seeks to negotiate good relationships with owners of state and county highpoints.

 

Ken Akerman (a.k.a. Highpointer )

[lullabud]

I don't live there anymore, and rarely stop by, but for those of you who are in Colorado Springs here is the official word from the GOV.

 

GEOCACHING GUILDELINES FOR CITY PARKS & OPEN SPACE AREAS

In response to the growing sport of geocaching, the City of Colorado Springs Parks, Recreation & Cultural Services Department has implemented a set of guidelines that works to allow geocaching and limits the risk of unattended, closed containers being left in the park system. The main concern of the Parks Department is the physical container associated with geocaching (the cache). There is also the responsibility the Parks Department has in managing a resource for everyone to enjoy. If geocaches are placed off designated trails, social trails develop and can adversely impact the environment.

The following is a list of activities that are associated with geocaching, including actions that Parks Staff will take.

 

Garden Of The Gods Park: Garden Of The Gods will have no geocache activity. With an estimated 1.7 million visitors annually, Garden Of The Gods is one of the most difficult parks to manage. Not only does the high volume of human traffic impact the park, Garden Of The Gods also contains some of the most erosive-prone soils in El Paso County. There is a Master Plan, Resource Management Plan, Reclamation Report and 12 member Advisory Committee that are all striving to balance the ecosystem needs with public needs. One of the major components is trail management. As identified in the Reclamation Plan, there are currently 17 miles of designated trails and over 34 miles of “social trails.” Many of the social trails (as well as some designated trails) become gullies after several rains, and then become a major drainage issue. Three of the four geocaches located within the Garden Of The Gods were off designated trails, and only encouraged off-trail use. Because of the sensitive and unique nature of the Garden Of The Gods, geocaching will not be allowed in the park.

 

Virtual caches: Virtual caches are permitted in parks and open spaces within the jurisdiction of the City of Colorado Springs. Please post the coordinates for a virtual cache on a designated trail. (Palmer Park & Ute Valley Park offer great rock formations and views for virtual caches.)

 

Tags and post-its: Tags are permitted in parks and open spaces within the jurisdiction of the City of Colorado Springs. Tags are most common in association with multi-caches, and are simply laminated or metal tags with coordinates, clues or other text listed on them. As with virtual caches, please locate the tag on a designated trail. (Existing trail signage is a good place to post these, as long as the tag does not damage or obscure the sign.) Tying the tag to a tree with string, wire or plastic is OK, as long as the tree is not damaged in the process. Nailing, stapling, or tacking tags to trees is prohibited.

 

Geocache events: If a team wishes to host a one-day event, geocaches will be permitted, as long as the caches are placed on designated trails the same day as the event, and are picked up immediately after the event. The containers should be clearly marked with the date and name of the team and/or event. The hosting team must supervise the event in a manner that minimizes the chance an outside group or person might tamper with the caches throughout the event.

 

New Geocaches: Parks Staff will continue to monitor any new caches. If a new cache is discovered within a park or open space within the jurisdiction of the City of Colorado Springs, the team responsible for placing the cache will be contacted via email, along with a letter and copy of the geocache guidelines. Teams have a two week period to remove the cache. If the cache is not removed within two weeks, Parks Staff will dispose of the cache. New caches that conform to the above guidelines do not require prior approval from Parks Staff.

 

I couldn't help but chuckle at the "Virtual caches are permitted" clause... Talk about freedom. We have the freedom to go somewhere that we heard about online. I'm overwhelmed with joy...