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Should we assist with remote cache maintenance or not.


Desertal
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This topic has been discussed many times when with fellow cachers at events etc.

While on a Geocaching adventure trip in remote areas, mountainous, forest or desert trail walks etc... you pass by a cache that has a couple of DNF`s and has not been found for a long time. Not possible to contact CO  for various reasons eg. no comms, no answer etc.. after thorough search do you claim a FIND and help with the maintenance by replacing container and log sheet then message CO later hoping to get an answer.? or is more correct to just DNF and move on knowing that due to remote position, maintenance will definitely not be done any time in the near future?

 

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45 minutes ago, Desertal said:

While on a Geocaching adventure trip in remote areas, mountainous, forest or desert trail walks etc... you pass by a cache that has a couple of DNF`s and has not been found for a long time. Not possible to contact CO  for various reasons eg. no comms, no answer etc.. after thorough search do you claim a FIND and help with the maintenance by replacing container and log sheet then message CO later hoping to get an answer.? or is more correct to just DNF and move on knowing that due to remote position, maintenance will definitely not be done any time in the near future?

I'll add a weatherproof log sheet or make other minor repairs as a favor to the CO, but I won't do anything major, and if I didn't fix the root problem (e.g., the leaking container that caused the log to get soaked), then I still post a NM log. And I certainly won't leave a throwdown as you described.

 

For reference, see the Help Center article Respond to "throwdowns".

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49 minutes ago, Desertal said:

This topic has been discussed many times when with fellow cachers at events etc.

While on a Geocaching adventure trip in remote areas, mountainous, forest or desert trail walks etc... you pass by a cache that has a couple of DNF`s and has not been found for a long time. Not possible to contact CO  for various reasons eg. no comms, no answer etc.. after thorough search do you claim a FIND and help with the maintenance by replacing container and log sheet then message CO later hoping to get an answer.? or is more correct to just DNF and move on knowing that due to remote position, maintenance will definitely not be done any time in the near future?

 

You need to judge each cache individually to decide whether to maintain it. When I travel to remote-ish places I pack some good cache containers and log paper (as well as trinkets) in case I feel they are needed. (Along with food for several days and plenty of water.) I have replaced a few caches. Some COs have then messaged to thank me. It might be the only cache for some distance; occasionally for a 100kms or more. Some caches have been there a long while. Some of the oldest are lasting well though, being ammunition tins. They might just benefit from a clean out of rubbish.

I rarely replace caches in urban areas and in the countryside near urban areas, as they are not remote, unless I have an understanding with individual COs, that I can do maintenance if I find it needed. I do have that understanding with a few COs.

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Here's a bit of a story that's my take on "remote cache maintenance". Back in 2012, someone who's no longer in the country placed a cache not far from my home. In 2015, six months after its previous find, I attempted it but, in spite of doing a fairly thorough search of the many possible hiding places there, couldn't spot it and so logged a DNF. There was another DNF a few months after mine and then, a month or so after that, someone dropped a throwdown near where they thought the cache might have been and claimed a find. That worked until 2018 when someone logged a DNFand two years later another cacher dropped a throwdown somewhere near where they thought the original throwdown might have been and they too logged a find. It's since had three more finds, two of whom thanked the most recent throwdowner and gave it an FP. But what are they finding? A throwdown that replaced a throwdown, neither of which were likely to have been in the same hiding place as the original or borne much resemblence to it. It's a bit like the woodsman's favourite old axe with three new heads and two new handles.

 

If that throwdown-throwdown goes missing again and if someone (perhaps me) gets in quick enough with an NA before it becomes a throwdown replacing a throwdown replacing a throwdown replacing a long lost cache, I wouldn't mind hiding a new cache there as it's an interesting spot to explore. But until then it remains a listing owned by someone on the other side of the planet and a container that no-one seems interested in maintaining once it's been dropped and that all-important smiley claimed.

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10 minutes ago, barefootjeff said:

Here's a bit of a story that's my take on "remote cache maintenance". Back in 2012, someone who's no longer in the country placed a cache not far from my home. In 2015, six months after its previous find, I attempted it but, in spite of doing a fairly thorough search of the many possible hiding places there, couldn't spot it and so logged a DNF. There was another DNF a few months after mine and then, a month or so after that, someone dropped a throwdown near where they thought the cache might have been and claimed a find. That worked until 2018 when someone logged a DNFand two years later another cacher dropped a throwdown somewhere near where they thought the original throwdown might have been and they too logged a find. It's since had three more finds, two of whom thanked the most recent throwdowner and gave it an FP. But what are they finding? A throwdown that replaced a throwdown, neither of which were likely to have been in the same hiding place as the original or borne much resemblence to it. It's a bit like the woodsman's favourite old axe with three new heads and two new handles.

 

If that throwdown-throwdown goes missing again and if someone (perhaps me) gets in quick enough with an NA before it becomes a throwdown replacing a throwdown replacing a throwdown replacing a long lost cache, I wouldn't mind hiding a new cache there as it's an interesting spot to explore. But until then it remains a listing owned by someone on the other side of the planet and a container that no-one seems interested in maintaining once it's been dropped and that all-important smiley claimed.

I know there are not many caches in your area, but your area is not a remote area. I would log that NA on that cache.

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In the scenario presented I am not sure it would be a throwdown, as it appears he actually found the original cache. Certainly a note to the CO describing what you found and its condition would be good. As for repairing it, a judgement call -- placing the log in a plastic bag etc. is not the same as replacing the entire container -- assuming you found the original container and put a new one in the exact small place. 

 

I recently found a relatively new cache, 4th to find I think, and ended up dropping the black cap to the tube and could not locate it on the dark ground. After a long time looking,  covered it the best I could with local material -- had nothing with me this time. I left info the log and wrote a note to the CO. I did go back with the only object I could find in my pile of junk, I mean stuff, and put there original container inside. Yes, way more conspicuous than when placed, I plan on going back to try to remedy that; but the CO may just beat me to it. He now works in that area. 

 

Small stuff like that I do not mind, but when finding a cache out in the open for instance and puttting it back", you are merely guessing where the CO originally placed it. 

 

Saying that, I have a question. I know of a cache that contains a throwdown - know by the CO as such also; basically it is  mentioned as such by a log entry by a "finder". I went to find that cache knowing of two containers, and even relative placements. I found the one I am sure was the original, nut not the second even though it was mentioned where it was in general terms. I signed and logged that cache.

 

The question I have is IF I had found the second cache would I have been okay to place the second cache at the same spot as the first? I would have signed both, and log it as such and make a note of that in the log, and also notify the CO. Since I did not find the second one is it is hypothetical, and even more so since the CO indicated he will be there to do maintenance in the fall. He of course can correct the situation, apparently he knows where the second one is. Just a note, I rarely find this CO's caches the first time looking!

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7 minutes ago, Goldenwattle said:

I know there are not many caches in your area, but your area is not a remote area. I would log that NA on that cache.

 

Nup, it's not my style to log an NA while the current throwdown is still there and being found (and I doubt the reviewer would accept such an NA anyway, given that there's a container and a logbook there that's being found with no outstanding NMs on the listing). I'll just keep it on my watchlist and if it goes missing again before I'm too old I might do something.

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23 minutes ago, barefootjeff said:

 

Nup, it's not my style to log an NA while the current throwdown is still there and being found (and I doubt the reviewer would accept such an NA anyway, given that there's a container and a logbook there that's being found with no outstanding NMs on the listing). I'll just keep it on my watchlist and if it goes missing again before I'm too old I might do something.

I was meaning when it goes missing :)

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May I ask a question? How many people here have cached in remote or remote-ish areas? I wouldn't call this really remote; but it's remote-ish. This was a side road I took. I was headed for a (fairly remote) cache, and a walk to Aboriginal rock art. The highway is sealed.

122074208_VictoriaRiverNP7.thumb.jpg.e28e90892238f45202c488711743f437.jpg

 

The next town is 93kms. This is the next town.

1903325679_TimberCreekNT.thumb.jpg.005458ce525666a8829a395c4afa51b4.jpg

 

And the next town after that over 200kms. When this is discussed I get the feeling that people have different ideas of 'remote'. This is the next town, likely the biggest town for a considerable distance. I can't comment further on that, as that's as far a I have driven. However I am guessing the next town of same or larger would be Broome, over 900kms away. It is my ambition to drive it. Follow Hwy 1 around Australia.

471337246_Kununurra3.thumb.jpg.4b5cca271485a5498a6c7ad551e5d975.jpg

Edited by Goldenwattle
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3 hours ago, Desertal said:

This topic has been discussed many times when with fellow cachers at events etc.

While on a Geocaching adventure trip in remote areas, mountainous, forest or desert trail walks etc... you pass by a cache that has a couple of DNF`s and has not been found for a long time. Not possible to contact CO  for various reasons eg. no comms, no answer etc.. after thorough search do you claim a FIND and help with the maintenance by replacing container and log sheet then message CO later hoping to get an answer.? or is more correct to just DNF and move on knowing that due to remote position, maintenance will definitely not be done any time in the near future?

 

I don't care how old it is (which is a consideration for some...), if there's multiple DNF and I made yet another, I'd leave a NM log and forgetaboutit.

It's sure not a find if you didn't.  Is a smiley something worth faking ?  I don't think so, but apparently some do though...

Kinda surprised that some still say they'd bring containers.  That's just temp-fixing a cache that's probably not getting further maintenance.

 - And it's not yours...

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14 minutes ago, cerberus1 said:

 

I don't care how old it is (which is a consideration for some...), if there's multiple DNF and I made yet another, I'd leave a NM log and forgetaboutit.

It's sure not a find if you didn't.  Is a smiley something worth faking ?  I don't think so, but apparently some do though...

Kinda surprised that some still say they'd bring containers.  That's just temp-fixing a cache that's probably not getting further maintenance.

 - And it's not yours...

I have found logs in still okay condition in dry areas, but the cache fallen apart. I pick up the pieces that I can and take them away to dispose of. I replace the cache, putting the still good log in it. I don't just leave it. I wouldn't be game to log a NM on a remote and a cache appreciated by people travelling though. I likely would mention the condition in my log if I didn't fix the problem myself. It makes a nice break from driving and stretches the legs. Not everyone thinks as you do. If fact away from this forum, I would speculate, from comments I have heard, most people don't.

I found a 2000 cache in poor condition in mountainous bushland, still with its original log. The log was okay surprisingly. Someone had stolen its cache. I didn't have a replacement with me, but I wrote of its condition in my log and suggested the next person replace the cache. I said I would not log a NM for such an old cache. Within a couple of weeks the log had a new cache.

Edited by Goldenwattle
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7 hours ago, Jayeffel said:

Saying that, I have a question. I know of a cache that contains a throwdown - know by the CO as such also; basically it is  mentioned as such by a log entry by a "finder". I went to find that cache knowing of two containers, and even relative placements. I found the one I am sure was the original, nut not the second even though it was mentioned where it was in general terms. I signed and logged that cache.

 

The question I have is IF I had found the second cache would I have been okay to place the second cache at the same spot as the first? I would have signed both, and log it as such and make a note of that in the log, and also notify the CO. Since I did not find the second one is it is hypothetical, and even more so since the CO indicated he will be there to do maintenance in the fall. He of course can correct the situation, apparently he knows where the second one is. Just a note, I rarely find this CO's caches the first time looking!

When I find two containers on location, and it's very obvious that one is the original and the other a throwdown, I take the throwdown and dump it in the next trash can (and say so in my log).

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5 hours ago, Goldenwattle said:

I have found logs in still okay condition in dry areas, but the cache fallen apart. I pick up the pieces that I can and take them away to dispose of. I replace the cache, putting the still good log in it.

In my view it's perfectly fine to do this, because it's not what I consider a throwdown. You actually found the cache (or its remains), so you know what kind of container it was and where it should be placed. No problem with "community maintenance" in this case - but a cache owner should not expect cachers to do this for them.

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4 hours ago, baer2006 said:

In my view it's perfectly fine to do this, because it's not what I consider a throwdown. You actually found the cache (or its remains), so you know what kind of container it was and where it should be placed. No problem with "community maintenance" in this case - but a cache owner should not expect cachers to do this for them.

That's the sort of maintenance I am talking about. It's not finding nothing, but usually the log in the remains of a cache. The sun is very harsh in the outback, and destroys plastic containers. When I travel to those areas, I pack caches to replace crumbling caches and occasionally fire damaged ones.  I found one plastic drip hanging from a burnt tree. I found a metal cache with a plastic container inside. A bushfire had recently been through. The log was there, but now stuck onto the metal container by a layer of plastic and not retrievable. I do find the cache that I maintain. There's often not enough caches as there is now. If I travel that way again there will now be long stretches with nothing for me to find, as I have already found the few that are there. I will need to depend on finding and logging a few trigs on another site to give myself breaks from driving, although I have already found the easiest of those to get to as well :unsure:.

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15 hours ago, Goldenwattle said:

May I ask a question? How many people here have cached in remote or remote-ish areas?

Not really interested in entering remoteness contests with Australia :)

 

I have replaced someone else's broken down container (and logged a find) at a ski resort that doesn't seem to support a native geocacher population, but sees a lot of people coming to find caches. Apparently the container I placed has since broken and been replaced by someone else.

 

The way I see it,  either the visiting community maintains the existing caches, or there's no caching in that area (apart from containerless formats I guess).

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20 hours ago, Desertal said:

This topic has been discussed many times when with fellow cachers at events etc.

While on a Geocaching adventure trip in remote areas, mountainous, forest or desert trail walks etc... you pass by a cache that has a couple of DNF`s and has not been found for a long time. Not possible to contact CO  for various reasons eg. no comms, no answer etc.. after thorough search do you claim a FIND and help with the maintenance by replacing container and log sheet then message CO later hoping to get an answer.? or is more correct to just DNF and move on knowing that due to remote position, maintenance will definitely not be done any time in the near future?

If you saw the two DNFs and were thinking of replacing it, you should have talked to the CO *before* you left home. In the case you describe, just DNF and move on. And, by the way, you didn't find the cache one way or another, so it's not reasonable to claim the find of your unauthorized replacement even if you left one.

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On 9/20/2021 at 9:25 PM, Goldenwattle said:

My comment was mainly to those who argue that remote caches should never be maintained :)

Have you ever placed a cache in a remote area and then relied on someone else to maintain it?

Or, would you not place a cache in a remote area because you could not maintain it?

Remoteness, to me, makes no difference to maintenance responsibility..

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1 hour ago, colleda said:

Have you ever placed a cache in a remote area and then relied on someone else to maintain it?

Or, would you not place a cache in a remote area because you could not maintain it?

Remoteness, to me, makes no difference to maintenance responsibility..

 

Although I haven't done anything quite as remote as the ones Goldenwattle referred to, my own experience of more remoteish caches is that they are mostly older ones from the first decade of caching with owners who are no longer active. Then it boils down to a choice between doing some minor repairs (maybe replacing a cracked Sistema, for example) or logging NMs/NAs and ultimately leaving the region devoid of caches.

 

Even in my own region, there are few people hiding bushland caches these days. In the last five years, well over half the T3+ caches on the Central Coast were either placed by me or were part of the geoart trail in the Watagan Mountains created for the 2018 Oz Geomuster mega.

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15 hours ago, colleda said:

Have you ever placed a cache in a remote area and then relied on someone else to maintain it?

Or, would you not place a cache in a remote area because you could not maintain it?

Remoteness, to me, makes no difference to maintenance responsibility..

I can't place a GC cache there now. (Have placed 3? GA.) Most of these caches out there were placed before the distance rule came in, or the person could argue they regularly travel there. I don't even place any more caches near where I live, so not placing a cache anywhere. I have placed enough.

I maintained a cache thousands of kms away from where a charter member lives. I was asked if I would do this for them, as they heard I would be travelling in that area. That cache was placed in a different era. As many caches in the outback were.

 

I also maintained this 2001 cache. Keeping it anonymous, as I would hate to see it archived. If I had known when I replaced the cache, how old it was, I would have left a better replacement. However, several years later I think that cache container is still doing the job.

image.png.925b37cb55b4fdb36a673165d718ab8a.png

 

 

Border track of SA & Vic.jpg

Edited by Goldenwattle
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But then, you're talking about replacing containers with permission, and/or replacing broken containers. The OP was talking about replacing missing containers, which without CO communication, one doesn't know if the cache is actually missing or not (i.e. throwdowns).

 

I think Australia is often one of the exceptions to the general rule. I suppose any caches in the middle of the Sahara might be another. :ph34r:

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I have often had this very discussion on these forums, and been knocked down repeatedly for taking a similar stance to Golden Wattle, with regards remote caches. I have cached in some very remote places in Australia. Places that takes days of driving to reach. Areas that are closed in summer due to the harsh conditions and extremely high temperatures. I have helped maintain caches in remote areas, whether it be a change of container, a new log book or scroll. If I find a smashed, chewed, or sun deteriorated container, and I have a suitable replacement with me, I will replace it, ESPECIALLY if its a long standing cache. This is regardless of whether the owner is an active member or not. Without keeping some of these caches going via community maintenance, there would be no caches in the area. And no, Im not talking about throwdowns. I am talking about finding a chache that could do with a bit of tender loving care. Yes, it flies in the face of the "rules", but, as TriciaG states above, Australia is often one of the exceptions to the general rule. Americans would not know what remote really is, in their own country. When you drive for days, and thousands on km, have to organise fuel drops to specific locations, satellite communications are a must, and dont see another person for days on end, thats remote travel. And remember, cache owners can also be regular travellers as well, most often for their jobs. Which permits them to place these remote caches. I have had a cache placement declined, "because it was too far from my home location" When I gave the reviewer my work location coordinates, it was published straight away, given my work location at the time was hundreds of KM from home. Read up on FIFO workers in Australia. Its not uncommon for them to fly to the other side of the country for work. 

Edited by Bundyrumandcoke
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So, I get the difference between where I live in the US and Australia.

 

There's remote, and there's REMOTE.

 

Where YOU live carries with it a different definition of the concept and a difference in lifestyle. 

 

What I always marvel at are the descriptions from y'all of driving for days, not seeing anyone but lizards, setting up gas drops, satellite commo, etc.,

 

......for a......

 

...geocache.

 

More power to ya.

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1 hour ago, TeamRabbitRun said:

So, I get the difference between where I live in the US and Australia.

 

There's remote, and there's REMOTE.

 

Where YOU live carries with it a different definition of the concept and a difference in lifestyle. 

 

What I always marvel at are the descriptions from y'all of driving for days, not seeing anyone but lizards, setting up gas drops, satellite commo, etc.,

 

......for a......

 

...geocache.

 

More power to ya.

Not necessarily just for a Geocache. Remote touring is a reasonably popular thing here. Australia is approx the same size as the continental United States. BUT, roughly 80% of the population lives within a couple of hundred km of the coastline. Which leaves vast areas of very interesting nothingness in the middle. The major highway, Highway 1, roughly follows the coastline around the country. Other major highways criss cross, but only one, the Stuart Highway, bisects the country north to south through the middle. Its more than a thousand km either side before you come to another major highway that goes north/south. The major east/west highways are way down south, and way up north. Again, no major highway crosses through the centre. Yes, minor highways and roads penetrate the centre. But often, these are no more than 2 wheel tracks in the sand. Exploring these tracks is something a lot of Aussies like to do. Iconic names like The Birdsville Track, The Oodnadatta Track, The Tanami Track, The Strezleckie Track, The Canning Stock route, The Len Beadel and Anne Beadel highways. But in spite of all the remoteness, people live, and work out there. Cattle properties exist out there. Mineral exploration and mining ventures exist out there. 

 

A trip we did a few years ago, crossing the Simpson Desert, just my wife and I, in one vehicle. We didnt see another person for 3 days, camped out in magnificent wilderness, only the stars in their untold billions laid out above us, the soft flicker of the campfire. Its a fantastic feeling. It takes the phrase, getting away from it all, to a whole new level. 

 

These photos, off the web, shows the kinds of distances. 1799km is over a thousand miles, with potentially no fuel stops, or towns, or villages, or anything. And thats not 1000 miles on bitumen road, its tough dry, or muddy, 4wding conditions, where your fuel consumption can easily double, often travelling in first, second, or third gear for hundreds of km. 

 

Canning Stock Route is one of the toughest tracks in the world (dangerousroads.org)

 

Canning_Stock_Route.jpg

 

img_9599.jpg

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And for the crossing of The Simpson Desert, again there are a number of caches along this remote track. Heres one, 

 

GCKJP6 Purnie is not boring (Traditional Cache) in South Australia, Australia created by Ian Mac (geocaching.com)

 

Our log from our find in 2014

Bundyrumandcoke

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Profile photo for Bundyrumandcoke

2.png5366

Found itFound it

29/04/14

We ventured further north from Port Augusta, for supplies before heading home via Marree, Oodnadatta, Coober Pedy, Mt Dare, and the Simpson Desert, after attending Oz Mega 2014.

After departing Dalhouse Springs, with the threat of rain in the south west, we headed east for our trek over The Simpson.

We became stuck on the track between Dalhousie and here. Hung up on both diffs, and with rain settling in, and a brisk wind blowing, things were not too good. I used my hi lift jack to try to get the Nissan out, but this failed. After the rain settled a little, I was in the process of getting my Maxtracks out to commence another go at getting out, when a couple of vehicles that were camped at Dalhousie last night happened along. A simple winch out was all that was needed.

All is good with the cache.

Cheers

Bundy

 

We are going to have to do this trip again some day. 

 

And why you have to be careful out there. Hung up on both diffs. 

b1086560-664a-4152-a740-8144f88d44dd.jpg

 

 

But the kinds of rewards you get. 

 

078da41e-0690-4ea7-8812-6f9cfe82857c.jpg

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Not quite in the same league as Bundy's road trips, but back in my student days (1980s) I did a week-long trip with a couple of friends circumnavigating New South Wales. From Wentworth in the south-western corner of the state, we headed north along the Silver City Highway to Broken Hill, about half way to the Queensland border and a distance of 265km. There are no towns at all along there, apart from a roadhouse at Scotia, and, at present, there's only one solitary cache along that stretch of road:

 

image.png.f0c6b3b21fa6e9016cf043198f6d3dca.png

 

We camped off the side of the road that night. Just occasionally we'd hear the sound of an approaching truck and then about ten minutes later the truck zoomed past. Sound travels a long way across that flat open land.

 

The cache was placed in 2010 and has had 248 finds in that time, the most recent in July this year. Its owner hasn't found any caches since 2013 but last visited the website in 2020. From the logs it appears the cache is still in good condition (it's unlikely to be muggled) and hopefully it'll stay that way for a good while longer, even if that means someone giving it a bit of TLC at some point. Because when it's gone that'll be it, another cache-free highway in these wide open spaces in the middle of nowhere.

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27 minutes ago, barefootjeff said:

Not quite in the same league as Bundy's road trips, but back in my student days (1980s) I did a week-long trip with a couple of friends circumnavigating New South Wales. From Wentworth in the south-western corner of the state, we headed north along the Silver City Highway to Broken Hill, about half way to the Queensland border and a distance of 265km. There are no towns at all along there, apart from a roadhouse at Scotia, and, at present, there's only one solitary cache along that stretch of road:

 

image.png.f0c6b3b21fa6e9016cf043198f6d3dca.png

 

We camped off the side of the road that night. Just occasionally we'd hear the sound of an approaching truck and then about ten minutes later the truck zoomed past. Sound travels a long way across that flat open land.

 

The cache was placed in 2010 and has had 248 finds in that time, the most recent in July this year. Its owner hasn't found any caches since 2013 but last visited the website in 2020. From the logs it appears the cache is still in good condition (it's unlikely to be muggled) and hopefully it'll stay that way for a good while longer, even if that means someone giving it a bit of TLC at some point. Because when it's gone that'll be it, another cache-free highway in these wide open spaces in the middle of nowhere.

I'm hoping to do a road trip to Broken Hill once we reopen for intrastate travel. Roughly 1200klm (750 miles) direct without leaving the state.

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9 minutes ago, colleda said:

I'm hoping to do a road trip to Broken Hill once we reopen for intrastate travel. Roughly 1200klm (750 miles) direct without leaving the state.

Last year we did Cape York from CQ, 6491.4 km without leaving the state. 

 

But all this talk of remote travelling, and looking at photos and caches found, has my brain ticking over, so I have just posted this to our 4wd clubs Facebook page. I reckon it would be well over 10000km over the 4-5 week trip. 

 

Must be time to put forward a proposal for another big trip. Hopefully all this Covid rubbish is gone by then. Autumn/Winter 2023. Central Australia. Approx 4-5 weeks. Simpson Desert crossing west to east. It can easily include Plenty Highway, or better still Sandover Highway, Birdsville Track, Oodnadatta Track, Strezlekie Track.
So, a potential itinerary, up to Mt Isa, Sandover Highway, Alice Springs, Mt Dare, Simpson Desert, Birdsville, Birdsville Track, Oodnadatta Track to William Ck, Lake Eyre, Coober Pedy, Port Augusta, Strezlekie Track, home via Cameron Corner and/or Haddon Corner, Windorah, Blackall, Tambo, Springsure, Biloela.
No idea of what distance that involves. Just looking back at some of the photos from our last Simpson Desert crossing about 7 years ago, and thinking, we should do that again.
Thoughts?
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Now, speaking of throwdowns, it reminds me of a cache rescue I did a few years ago in Alice Springs, Northern Territory. Its possible to undo someone elses error. The cache GC70YV4 Chainman 2 (Traditional Cache) in Northern Territory, Australia created by Alicecaching - first placed by JWstorming (geocaching.com)

 

My log from that cache. 

 

The Chainman 2, full rescue story.

We pulled into AS for the event a few days early. Caching around town, as you do, this one came up on the radar, so off we go. We pulled into the general area, for both of us to say, "We have found a cache here before, back in about 2011."

Follow the GPS and find GZ, and the chain, but no container. Checking previous logs, we find that this is what others have found, with some logging finds, and some logging DNFs, and just about everyone presuming that the container has fallen to the bottom of the fence post.

As there is the event on, and not wanting to see people log DNFs due to a missing container. we placed a temporary container and posted our previous log to this effect.

Last night, I made the decision that we should mount a rescue mission to retrieve the missing cache container.

This morning, armed with a spare tent pole, gaffa tape, and various other tools, and most importantly, a strong torch, we ventured forth, determined to succeed.

The torch revealed a container at the bottom of the post. A test probe with the tent pole revealed a depth of about 5 ft. The C shaped end of the tent pole actually did grab the container, so I started to pull it upwards, but then, the rattle of it falling back to the bottom was a bit disheartening. I tried a few more times, but each time, it fell back. There were 5 wires through the fence post, each used to support the barbed wire strands that make up the fence. The container was hitting the first one, and falling back.

Never mind, with pliers in hand, I proceeded to deconstruct the fence, removing thee short wire lengths, to give me an unobstructed fence post from top to bottom.

Looking down the pipe, I could see a wire loop sicking up. I fished this out with the tent pole, and a camoed Eclipse tin was at the other end. Opening the container revealed logs from the 2013 to 2015 era. Hmmmm. Looking down with the torch again revealed another container at the bottom. The tent pole and some gaffa tape retrieved this one in quick time, this one being a black FILA mint container on a piece of wire. Checking the log book revealed logs from way back in 2011, and lo and behold, our log from 8 May 2011. This is the original Chainman cache container, Chainman 2s predecessor. Even more interesting.
A further look down the tube revealed something else down there, so a feel around with the tent pole got a tinny sound in response. No amount of probing with the tent pole and gaffa tape could get this object up. Eventually, a piece of wire taped to the end, spear like, managed to stab the item, which turned out to be a crushed aluminium can. A further check with the torch revealed nothing more down there.
I rebuilt the fence correctly, but took the chance to "Drop proof" the post at the second top wire. No more containers falling to the bottom.
I thought about which container to use, and figured that since it had lasted so well, the original FILA mint tin, from the original Chainman cache would be fitting. I bundled up all the logs, and fitted them into a new baggie, into the original tin, and with shortened and more secure connection to the chain, dropped it back into its home. The second container has been brought back to the event, and is at the registration table.
BUT, the question remains, since about 2015, the time of the last log we found, there have been no log entries into any log book that we found. We checked other fence posts to see if there were any signs of lost containers, but no luck. This part of the story remains a mystery.

And as a final twist, I have been informed that the last container placed was a preformed tube. There was no sign of this. Perhaps, in all this, its been muggled.

In all, we spent probably an hour at GZ performing the rescue. It feels really great to have found not one, but 2 old containers, and revive one back into the game.

Cheers

Bundy

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My general rule is that I don't do cache maintenance if it isn't my cache. If a minor fix is required and I happen to have the materials to take care of it - like leaving an extra log sheet - sure, no problem. I might even repair or replace a broken container, again, if I happen to have something on me, but I typically regard that as an owner responsibility. Certainly, if I accidentally damage a cache, I feel responsible for fixing it up if I can - had that happen with a zip tie holding a cache in a tree recently, and I fortunately had a roll of duct tape to put it back.

 

Up until about ten years ago or so, I used to replace missing containers and log a find. I no longer do. Those get a DNF, full stop. I don't care if they're down the street, or in Timbuktu. If they no longer have an active CO and get archived, such is life.

 

Over the past few months, I've replaced all but two of the active geocaches at Guantanamo Bay, without being asked. My reasoning is that no new caches can be placed there, and the cache owners have all moved on. So, if no one replaces them, they'll get archived and cannot be replaced. In every single case but one, there was a cache there for me to find before I replaced the container and signed the new log. For that one, I just wrote a note, because I didn't find a cache there, I just left one behind. At some point, it'd be nice if I could adopt those caches, since I've already replaced them once and I'm in a position to continue to care for them for a while, but I can't do that without the owners' say so.

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2 hours ago, hzoi said:

Up until about ten years ago or so, I used to replace missing containers and log a find. I no longer do. Those get a DNF, full stop. I don't care if they're down the street, or in Timbuktu. If they no longer have an active CO and get archived, such is life.


I would prefer no unilateral fixing of my caches.  I’m either building an improved design, or about to archive it.  Either way, I really wish people would resist fixing it, because my next action will undo  that repair.  It’s not because I don’t appreciate it (OK, I don’t), but it messes with my plans for the cache (because a field repair is almost always unacceptable).  So I think of that when I see some cache in bad shape.  I’ll just let the CO deal with it.

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On a trip through Europe, we took a a one-day coach trip from Dubrovnik to Montenegro.  There were only a couple of caches that were near our itinerary, but none on the island we visited early in the day.  I had precviously talked to our tour guide about geocaching and on a previous trip someone had shown him a cache on the island.  He pointed me at the location, I found the cache, signed the log and replaced it as found.  Later in the day I found another cache in Montenegro.

 

Back at the hotel, I searched for the island cache and it was nowhere to be found.  I asked here, and someone, probably a reviewer, was able to identify the cache.  It had been archived and removed..  Someone had come along, put in a throwdown and claimed a find.

 

I did not claim the find and asked the tour guide to remove the container next time he was on the island.

 

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On 10/4/2021 at 10:22 AM, barefootjeff said:

Not quite in the same league as Bundy's road trips

Neither are my trips :shocked:. That's why I wrote "How many people here have cached in remote or remote-ish areas? I wouldn't call this really remote; but it's remote-ish.", rather than just remote :laughing:. I would love to do trips like Bundyrumandcoke's, but as I usually travel alone and only have an AWD rather than a 4WD, that limits me where I can travel. The best I am likely to do by myself, is Highway 1, one day.

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On 10/4/2021 at 10:57 AM, colleda said:

I'm hoping to do a road trip to Broken Hill once we reopen for intrastate travel. Roughly 1200klm (750 miles) direct without leaving the state.

I managed a Broken Hill trip last November. I am a carer for my mother, and I took my mother on a final trip. (She did end up for a night in a country hospital.) It was 44C (according to my car temperature readout) one day, but only one day, in Broken Hill. My mother had to stay inside the air-conditioned motel room that day, but I took a short trip out geocaching. With the strong, hot wind, it was like stepping into a fan-forced oven when I stepped from my car. Next day, it dropped to 28 degrees.

I drove Ivanhoe to Menindee, along the 200kms of dirt road; only later learning the road was closed. There was a short stretch of mud, but I got through and I only have an AWD, not a 4WD, so wasn't sure why it was closed. Road workers were there making a new road to bypass the muddy stretch, but that wasn't open yet. Yes, a rough road, but it wasn't impassable.

 

Ivanhoe to Menindee; not the worst stretch though.              Pamamaroo Lake near Menidee.                          The road from Menindee to the Lakes, freshly graded, so good.

509872347_IvanhoetoMenindeeRd2.thumb.jpg.8314edad5d9edfc60dee42aba45ca3fd.jpg  1255493507_PamamarooLake6.thumb.jpg.c14b3cc23a34969de509a6f74cc7983e.jpg  1886794764_Menindeearearoad2.thumb.jpg.f4729297df01a85f59cd3db4c15b834b.jpg

 

Menindee is worth a visit, especially now with the lakes full. Only one lake, Pamamaroo Lake, was full when I visited. I would take a drive back there myself now, except that I'm still a carer, and we are in lockdown.

 

Hot, dusty, day near Broken Hill...and a cache :antenna:.

1582698765_Dustylandscape42degrees.thumb.jpg.f1cc7d36286c1ff57843b958588010ec.jpg

 

 

Edited by Goldenwattle
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Trying to find a pic, The missus and I did 8500km on a motorbike, towing a trailer, about 9 years ago. CQ, down through the centre of Qld and NSW, over through Broken Hill to Port Augusta, then up to Coober Pedy, then back down through Adelaide to Mt Gambier, then around the bottom, and up the coast back home. Trip took 29 days. I couldnt tell you how many caches we found on that trip, but it would have been up in the hundreds. In The Donga, off the Stuart Highway, was the most memorable, for all the wrong reasons, getting bogged in the desert sand, on a 300 + kg motorbike, with another couple of hundred kg trailer in tow. That took a few hours to get out. Not fun at all. 

 

The best memory of that trip, pulled up at a set of lights in Adelaide, on a weekday, having a conversation with the car driver beside us,  with the colour green all over his face. He was very, very, very, very VERY jealous. 

 

I have got a cache in Broken Hill, whilst stopped on the Indian Pacific, returning from Perth to Sydney. Instead of a tour, I walked to get the cache. The one at Kalgoorlie was easy, it was at the railway station. 

 

I love touring Australia. I have never owned a passport. About the only part of Australia I havent explored is the Kimberly and Pilbara. North of Perth, and west of Kunanarra. Every holiday is a road or camping trip. 

Scan_20211006 (2).jpg

Edited by Bundyrumandcoke
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I've made a mental note to include Menindee. Have driven from Robinvale VIC to Lake Mungo then overnighted at Darnick then Darnick to Ivanhoe, mud all the way. We were in a Subaru Touring wagon towing a camper trailer. Took 8 hours to drive 80 klm (60 miles) Darnick/Ivanhoe. Fuel consumption was 3klm per litre, about 7.5 mpg.

I can see two caches at Menindee. They're a long way from anywhere.

GC48D0V

GC4N26V

The find counts seem a little odd. One has 43 in 9 years while the other has 189 finds in 8 years. The older one would be on a road less travelled I guess.

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14 minutes ago, colleda said:

I've made a mental note to include Menindee. Have driven from Robinvale VIC to Lake Mungo then overnighted at Darnick then Darnick to Ivanhoe, mud all the way. We were in a Subaru Touring wagon towing a camper trailer. Took 8 hours to drive 80 klm (60 miles) Darnick/Ivanhoe. Fuel consumption was 3klm per litre, about 7.5 mpg.

I can see two caches at Menindee. They're a long way from anywhere.

GC48D0V

GC4N26V

The find counts seem a little odd. One has 43 in 9 years while the other has 189 finds in 8 years. The older one would be on a road less travelled I guess.

I have found one of those caches.The one with most finds.  It's just off the sealed road from Broken Hill. The other is on the road to Wilcannia, which I think was closed when I was there, and besides I was travelling with my elderly mother, and I couldn't go everywhere. I 'cleaned' up most caches in Broken hill. There's lots to find in Menindee with another 'brand'.

I also have a Subaru; an XV in my case. It's big enough for me to sleep in the back on a single mattress.

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