+Husker Nation Posted June 26, 2002 Share Posted June 26, 2002 I got the following message today that seems to indicate no caches in CS parks. This includes Palmer Park, Garden of Gods, Cheyenne Canyon ... Did anyone else get this? It seems like we should try to meet with someone and try to get this changed. The Notice --------------------------------- Greetings. I am with the City of Colorado Springs Parks, Recreation & Cultural Services Department, and it has come to our attention that there is a geocache in North Cheyenne Canon that was placed by your team. Geocache.com states on the Guide to Creating and Hiding a Cache page, “If you place the cache on public lands you need to contact the managing agency to find out about their rules.” After contacting several staff members, it appears that your team failed to contact Parks, Recreation & Cultural Services Department staff prior to the cache being placed. After reviewing parks policies, staff members have determined that leaving a container of any kind in a public park within the City of Colorado Springs jurisdiction creates a potential hazard. We realize that the initial cache is placed with safe contents, but the Parks Department could be liable if someone were to tamper with the geocache container and cause harm to another person. On behalf of the Director of the Parks, Recreation and Cultural Services Department, I am asking that you remove your cache within the next two (2) weeks. Please keep in mind I will be monitoring the site, and park maintenance has been notified to remove any caches found after the two week period. There is no restriction on virtual caches, but we ask that virtual cache coordinates be located on designated trails. If you have comments or concerns please feel free to contact Paul Butcher, Director of Parks, Recreation and Cultural Services (385-6501 or email pbutcher@ci.colospgs.co.us), or Kurt Schroeder, Parks and Trails Maintenance Manager (385-6555 or email kschroeder@ci.colospgs.co.us). Thank you for you cooperation in this matter. Scott Thompson Senior GIS Analyst (719) 385-6507 sthompson@ci.colospgs.co.u : Quote Link to comment
+Dan_Edwards Posted June 26, 2002 Share Posted June 26, 2002 I would give them a call and see if you can get permission to leave it. Of course you want to be as nice as possible when you talk to them. Maybe explain that you could place in your cache description that while you have permission for the cache, the contents of the cache are not under your or the parks services immediate control. Quote Link to comment
+Gil&Ani Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 We got the same message since we have(/had) three caches in Palmer Park. ...so let me guess, the Parks Department realizes that it places trash containers with safe contents but since someone may tamper with them and cause harm to another person they will be removing the trash containers as well? This is a fine example of short-sighted bureaucrats mucking with a good thing. This city has a stake in attracting tourism but dreams up this foole nonsense to offend a segment of the people who would come to Colorado Springs as visitors just because we have(/had) a fine collection of them in scenic and challenging park locations. I hope to see combination locks on all the park trash cans very soon so that nothing anyone deposits can cause harm to another. Get real CS Parks! Originally posted by Husker Nation: I got the following message today that seems to indicate no caches in CS parks. This includes Palmer Park, Garden of Gods, Cheyenne Canyon ... Did anyone else get this? It seems like we should try to meet with someone and try to get this changed. Quote Link to comment
Squad51 Posted June 30, 2002 Share Posted June 30, 2002 Team Squad51 rec'd that exact same letter - not good, eh? Is anyone planning to start a dialogue with them on this? Let us know... Quote Link to comment
+Husker Nation Posted June 30, 2002 Author Share Posted June 30, 2002 I would be glad to take part in opening some kind of dialogue about this. Does anyone have any contacts/friends at Parks & rec? Some of the things I have thought about discussing with them: GeoCaching should present a credible and measureable risk before being banned. I don't think the risk meets those criteria. I searched and could find no instances of people being hurt by GeoCache containers. Precedence is to allow GeoCaches around on most public land. The NPS is the most significant body not allowing caches, most other groups seem to allow caches. Almost any activity in city parks can lead to injury. A wayward frisbee in the frisbee gold course could hit someone, golf balls at city golf courses are probably responsible for a number of injuries every year. We could recommend if necessary a letter on tthe outside of each cache warning anyone that opening/using the cache is at their own risk and this is not a city sponsored container. What do you think? Any other ideas? Should we try to do this person or via e-mail? Quote Link to comment
Squad51 Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 IMHO, this should be done face-to-face with the parks people. I think our arguments will have greater impact if they get to KNOW us, as opposed to anonymous names in their email box... Team Squad51 will be more than happy to join Husker Nation for whatever talks you can get set up. In the meantime, we'll remove and temporarily disable the two caches we have that fall within city parks. Grumble... Quote Link to comment
Squad51 Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 IMHO, this should be done face-to-face with the parks people. I think our arguments will have greater impact if they get to KNOW us, as opposed to anonymous names in their email box... Team Squad51 will be more than happy to join Husker Nation for whatever talks you can get set up. In the meantime, we'll remove and temporarily disable the two caches we have that fall within city parks. Grumble... Quote Link to comment
+mrp Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 The saying goes "It's easier to get forgivness than permission." My suggestion... prostrate yourself and appologize profusely for failing to obtain permission. And then see if you can obtain forgiveness and retroactive permission. If you're nice enough, maybe you can convert some critical folks at the parks department. -- Mitch Quote Link to comment
+mrp Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 The saying goes "It's easier to get forgivness than permission." My suggestion... prostrate yourself and appologize profusely for failing to obtain permission. And then see if you can obtain forgiveness and retroactive permission. If you're nice enough, maybe you can convert some critical folks at the parks department. -- Mitch Quote Link to comment
+Traveling-Gnome Posted July 3, 2002 Share Posted July 3, 2002 I have to agree with Gil&Ani - this is a completely silly rule! I have yet to see a cache in Colorado Springs that wasn't hidden or was dangerous. However, rather then have the Parks people "steal" my cache I've removed it. However, I plan on finding another locatation as close as possible to the park boundary. Has anyone contacted the Park Department to plead for reconsideration? Maybe we should post a 1,000 fake caches in each park and keep the Park folks employed all summer hunting them down. Quote Link to comment
+Traveling-Gnome Posted July 3, 2002 Share Posted July 3, 2002 I have to agree with Gil&Ani - this is a completely silly rule! I have yet to see a cache in Colorado Springs that wasn't hidden or was dangerous. However, rather then have the Parks people "steal" my cache I've removed it. However, I plan on finding another locatation as close as possible to the park boundary. Has anyone contacted the Park Department to plead for reconsideration? Maybe we should post a 1,000 fake caches in each park and keep the Park folks employed all summer hunting them down. Quote Link to comment
+Husker Nation Posted July 3, 2002 Author Share Posted July 3, 2002 I am trying to coordinate a date with Squad51 that we can meet face to face with the Parks and Rec to discuss this. I hope to have the meeting next week. We will let you know what happens. Kent (Husker Nation) Quote Link to comment
+Husker Nation Posted July 5, 2002 Author Share Posted July 5, 2002 While looking for the mission statement for CS parks & Rec, I found this link to an advisory board. http://www.springsgov.com/Agendas.asp?SectionID=0&CCBID=18 Parks and Recreation Advisory Board - Agenda AGENDA Parks and Recreation Advisory Board June 13, 2002 7:30 a.m. 1401 Recreation Way CITIZEN DISCUSSION Time for any individual to bring before the Parks and Recreation Advisory Board any matter of interest they wish to discuss that is not on the agenda. ------------------------------------------------ This would seem to be a more public type forum to present GeoCaching vs. meeting with the people in charge of the trails/parks. It might be good to try both forums. Quote Link to comment
Squad51 Posted July 5, 2002 Share Posted July 5, 2002 Nowhere on the Parks page is this month's meeting date and time listed. I'll see if I can find out when it'll be. Unless Husker Nation knows??? Husker Nation knows all!!! LOL! Guess we'd better get to work removing Baby Bear II and Lost Souls this weekend. Sigh. First we have a bunch stolen, now the remaining caches have to be pulled. Tsk tsk tsk.... The strange part is in May, my team mate had a conversation with one of the Parks people and they said they were aware of geocaching and had actually already discussed it at a meeting the previous week. They said they were going to turn a blind eye to it, as long as nothing drew their attention back to it. Something like that.. can't remember the exact words. So we[re wondering what changed their minds in the last month? Anyone have a clue/run-in/problem??? Team Squad51 Quote Link to comment
Squad51 Posted July 5, 2002 Share Posted July 5, 2002 Nowhere on the Parks page is this month's meeting date and time listed. I'll see if I can find out when it'll be. Unless Husker Nation knows??? Husker Nation knows all!!! LOL! Guess we'd better get to work removing Baby Bear II and Lost Souls this weekend. Sigh. First we have a bunch stolen, now the remaining caches have to be pulled. Tsk tsk tsk.... The strange part is in May, my team mate had a conversation with one of the Parks people and they said they were aware of geocaching and had actually already discussed it at a meeting the previous week. They said they were going to turn a blind eye to it, as long as nothing drew their attention back to it. Something like that.. can't remember the exact words. So we[re wondering what changed their minds in the last month? Anyone have a clue/run-in/problem??? Team Squad51 Quote Link to comment
+The Treasurer Posted July 6, 2002 Share Posted July 6, 2002 quote: Will it be on private or public land? - If you place it on private land, please ask permission before putting it there! If you place the cache on public lands you need to contact the managing agency to find out about their rules. You will be in violation of federal regulation by placing a cache in any area administered by the National Park Service (US). The National Park regulations are intended to protect the fragile environment, and historical and cultural areas found in the parks. It never ceases to amaze me how many people choose to ignore this one little paragraph. The Church says that the Earth is flat, but I know that it is round. For I have seen the shadow on the moon and I have more faith in the Shadow than in the Church. - Ferdinand Magellan Quote Link to comment
pazuzuprime Posted July 8, 2002 Share Posted July 8, 2002 I have sent e-mails to all of the appropriate people expressing my outrage if any of them care here are the e-mails that I have sent. I have heard that the Colorado Springs Parks and Rec have outlawed Geocaching in public parks and land. If this is the case I am writing this e-mail to express my dismay and outrage at this proceeding. Geocaching harms no one and is a extremly entertaining activity that is fun for all ages be it either groups, families or individuals. Geocaching was put out into the open for all to experience and to enjoy if by some bueracratic nonsence it is outlawed then I hope by god that a underground movement is started so that we may still enjoy this engaging activity. Review what you feel for some reason that you have to review. Then release all the cachers to replace their caches so we may get back to enjoying our outdoors that our tax dollars pay for, and you government types can start to worry about something important. This is nonsense. If your intent is to protect people then please send out hunters to kill any potential mountain lions or other critters that may harm people. Install safety nets around all rocks that people may fall off of. Outlaw all sports activities since people could get hurt doing that as well. Your responsibility to protect people from themselves lies well beyond geocaching so quickly outlaw those other things please before someone gets hurt. Pazuzuprime Quote Link to comment
+Traveling-Gnome Posted July 8, 2002 Share Posted July 8, 2002 How quick you are to assume that we didn't read the rules or contact the managing agency... I for one did contact the CS Parks & Rec department and explained what I wanted to do prior to placing my cache. I was told that as long as it didn't damage natural resources, present a hazard to critters or people, and wasn't "trashy" looking I could place it. The supervisor I talked to knew exactly what geocaching was so I have to assume that others in the CS area called him. Quote Link to comment
+Husker Nation Posted July 10, 2002 Author Share Posted July 10, 2002 I had a meeting with CS Parks & Rec today. I presented some information about GeoCaching and then we discussed the future of GeoCaching in CS managed parks. The three people I met with have a very good understanding of GeoCaching and are very reasonable people. I plan to work with them to develop a set of guidelines for CS Parks. The bad news is that containters of any kind are not going to be allowed in CS parks. I think the review of containers was triggered by an incident in which an unmarked ammo can was found and Hazmat was called to check it out. Good news is that tags, metal plates or things like this for multi-leg or otherwise will be allowed. The group I met with is supportive of GeoCaching but not of containers. The loss of containers is a bummer. They are being flexible on the removal of caches and don't plan to confiscate them unless nothing is happening to get them moved. Let me know if you want to help review the guidelines that are being developed. Husker Nation [This message was edited by Husker Nation on July 10, 2002 at 09:01 PM.] Quote Link to comment
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