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Central Valley Cachers


Fattuhr
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So I guess 74 caches in 24 hours is just not possible in the CVC area?!? To tell you the true, I can hardly believe someone can get two dozen caches in a day. But boy, would I like to give it a try.

 

Today, we spent the day out looking for my partner. Because we live so close to the county line, we had to visit more doggie-jails. Too bad I can't post him as a cache with a great FTF prize? The only problem is that he doesn't have his coordinates on his tag... just his address and phone number. That's also why I think he was stolen.

 

Well, this is going to throw the schedule off. I'll have to settle the score with the Toads later than I thought. icon_frown.gif

 

Bill of Green Achers

 

"The Early Bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese" Author unknown.

 

39570_500.jpg

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Hey Brute-Force,

 

Keep an eye out for > Oscar's Express < Cannonball Travel Bug. He was last seen in AZ, but should hit CA soon. If you get a chance to grab and divert / delay him I'm sure a few of us racers would be grateful. There are a few CVC racers but they are all East of the Mississippi still.

 

quote:
Today, we spent the day out looking for my partner. Because we live so close to the county line, we had to visit more doggie-jails. Too bad I can't post him as a cache with a great FTF prize? The only problem is that he doesn't have his coordinates on his tag... just his address and phone number.

Bill...

Maybe Buster is on a cache hunt of his own, and will wander home soon.

 

Enthusiasm may vary.

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Whoa, the cache police make good on a threat!

 

I got this email from geocaching.com explaining why my A Day At The Beach was archived! The email contents came from the sacparks people and include a mention of someone else's cache.

 

**************

 

A Day at the Beach is GCED56. We Also removed Hanging Tree (GC587A) because

the fishing ling used to hang it was a danger to flying wildlife. On the

American River Parkway, you are not allowed to tie things to trees, rocks,

logs, etc., nor are you allowed to dig holes, cut branches or trees or

bushes. You are also not allowed to place anything in the Nature Areas.

Please let your people know about the rules, or they will lose their caches.

If anyone has any questions about what they can and can't do, they can call

916-875-6672 any day between 7:30AM and 8:30 PM for now. In May, The hours

will change to 10:30PM. Also, for future reference, anyone caught in the

Parks after closing, as well as not observing any of the other violations,

can be cited. Thank you for your cooperation.

 

****************

 

Two things are interesting here: one, those birds should look out for trees when they are flying around, let along a thin fishing line!

 

two, I guess my Picnic Time is still safe...*THEY* can't find it...but two Sac cachers just did !

 

Ron

 

I've never been lost. Fearsome confused sometimes, but never lost.

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quote:
Originally posted by Green Achers:

So I guess 74 caches in 24 hours is just not possible in the CVC area?!? To tell you the true, I can hardly believe someone can get two dozen caches in a day. But boy, would I like to give it a try.

 

_Bill of Green Achers_

 


 

Hey Bill....

 

I saw this pic on a cache in Sac nearby one of the caches they couldn't find. The *missing* one had been taken by the Sac cache police.

 

1322788_200.JPG

 

Ron

 

I've never been lost. Fearsome confused sometimes, but never lost.

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**************

 

A Day at the Beach is GCED56. We Also removed Hanging Tree (GC587A) because

the fishing ling used to hang it was a danger to flying wildlife. On the

American River Parkway, you are not allowed to tie things to trees, rocks,

logs, etc., nor are you allowed to dig holes, cut branches or trees or

bushes. You are also not allowed to place anything in the Nature Areas.

Please let your people know about the rules, or they will lose their caches.

If anyone has any questions about what they can and can't do, they can call

916-875-6672 any day between 7:30AM and 8:30 PM for now. In May, The hours

will change to 10:30PM. Also, for future reference, anyone caught in the

Parks after closing, as well as not observing any of the other violations,

can be cited. Thank you for your cooperation.

 

****************

 

Sounds more like Enviro-facist. You are not allowed to breath the air in the Park because you might deprive an endangered spotted, kangaroo, field _____________ from getting what it's due. How dare the humans get out and enjoy nature. Don't dare smack a mosquito, you'll violate it's right to a free meal. You will be cited! Your more of a criminal than the litterbugs, camping vagrants, or even the real criminals who prey on joggers every year.

 

Hey Ron how about a new cache called " Nothing But Fishing Line and Plastic 6-pack Holders, you could dig a hole, for a five gallon bucket they wouldn't be able to find either.

 

Enthusiasm may vary.

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What was so wrong with a cache or two being removed out of concern for the well-being of animals who really did inhabit that area before humans?? I think it was pretty nice of them (whoever "them" might be) to say what can and can't be done instead of just notifying Geocaching.com that all caches in the American River Parkway need to be removed.

 

Call me an "enviro-facist" too, I guess..but I just don't think that whoever sent that letter was going to quite the extremes that are being depicted here.

 

Jaimee

 

"What a fine thing it is to have an intellect, and room enough in the seat of your breeches to hold it."

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The funny thing is....

 

at this mile long asphalt road which parallels I-5 and which even PROMOTES fishing along a 150 strip of *beach*, there are NO toilet facilities of any kind for the hikers...or especially fisher-persons...to use.

 

I don't fish, so maybe the fishing people know there's no reason to fish there, but I still find it odd. Do the Sac Parks people expect people to hike in and out of there and HOLD IT until they can find a porta-potty?

 

Seems strange to me.

 

On a related note, the 9.5 mile hike to my Patti's Point cache has no toilet facilities once you are past the initial cache which is .40 miles from the parking lot. If you are a long-haul hiker, you better figure out what to do when nature calls. I guess a ranger driving a truck in the Pardee area just steps on the gas and gets to a porta potti! (yeah, right!)

 

Also, one of the folks who found my two caches near Sacramento is a police officer who found the park ranger VERY discourteous even before the cacher/police officer revealed his/her identity to the ranger.

 

Ron

 

I've never been lost. Fearsome confused sometimes, but never lost.

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quote:
Originally posted by Ron Streeter:

Also, one of the folks who found my two caches near Sacramento is a police officer who found the park ranger VERY discourteous even before the cacher/police officer revealed his/her identity to the ranger.


 

Is that the same ranger who wrote the above note? I am confused now icon_confused.gif

 

I can imagine that rangers happen upon some interesting things frequently, and I guess I could understand their being a bit jumpy and quick to think the worst.

 

"What a fine thing it is to have an intellect, and room enough in the seat of your breeches to hold it."

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quote:
Originally posted by JaimeeG:

What was so wrong with a cache or two being removed out of concern for the well-being of animals who really did inhabit that area before humans?? Jaimee

 


 

Hey Jaimee...

 

I think the point I would make about park regulations and those who enforce them is this.

The regulations need to be looked at.

 

I'm sure there are regulations regarding the welfare of the fish in the American River too. Seasons for fishing, legal bait and hooks and so forth. I don't fish, but I have read of such things.

 

The fact is that some of that fishing line gets away (accidentally) some of it is probably reeled off because of snags, and DISCARDED by fisher-persons with bad manners, etc, etc.

 

I think some of the difference between the malevolent fisher-person, rafter who pees in the river, or a person who throws a beer can or bottle in the river, and all the other things that can and do go wrong is this:

 

The geocacher PLANS to do something. Makes a point of leaving something (hopefully responsibly) and is more likely to be *CAUGHT* because the cacher is polite enough to leave a *RETURN ADDRESS* in the cache he has placed.

 

Yes, Jaimee you are right that it is no big deal that one or two caches get pulled, but what I question is the rules themselves. I don't blame the people who enforce them, but the people who *make* the rules.

 

At Pardee and many other wilderness areas, there are no dogs allowed on the trails. When I asked a *ranger* about this one of the things he mentioned was fecal matter which doesn't get cleaned up. Personally, I think this guy's boss didn't give a very good orientation session to this ranger as the next question out of my mouth was *do horse riders pick up their horse's crap?* He had no answer for that. Couple this with my point that on the Pardee trails there are no restrooms to speak of for human use.

 

Just a quagmire of regulations, some of which are ...IN MY HUMBLE OPINION... not well thought out.

 

Ron

 

I've never been lost. Fearsome confused sometimes, but never lost.

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quote:
...observing any of the other violations,

can be cited.


Please. Tell me how you'd ''observe a violation!''icon_confused.gif Is that like observing a law or rule? Or are they asking us to watch them being broken??

 

Sounds like the same group of do gooders that attacked me on my cache up in Fairfield. There's a reason Fairfield has lots of miles between caches. Too many people observing violations and making up rules that they think are laws.

 

Don't stir me up when I'm short on sleep and already riled. Sorry about your cache Ron. I know you work hard on all your caches. icon_mad.gif

 

Bill of Green Achers

 

"The Early Bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese" Author unknown.

 

39570_500.jpg

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To clear things up a bit on my Picnic Time cache...

 

A cacher who is a police officer looked for it and was accosted by a Sac Parks Ranger.

 

The cacher explained the caching concept and showed a printout of Picnic Time. The ranger chewed out the cacher/officer. The cacher/officer revealed he/she was a police officer and the ranger was gracious enough to NOT give a citation. Frankly I think the citation giving is infrequent....maybe if they caught a person twice they might issue a citation, but public servants are usually nice and somewhat forgiving on something like walking twenty feet off a road. This ranger apparently was pretty jerky from the get go.

 

Anyway, my Picnic Time is still there...THEY (sac park rangers) haven't found it *yet?* and they found the quart sized one at Day At The Beach. It was about 75 feet inside some woods from the beach border where fishing was allowed. This is a woods that any *normal* person would use for relieving ones self if nature called. Where are the rangers when you need a porta-potty ride!

 

I am not concerned about the one cache going away, nor would I be if the other did too. I am more concerned about rule makers who don't think things through...again IMHO.

 

I have pics of the two signs at the SAC area I am discussing. I'll try to find them and you can see for yourselves what you CAN'T do at this area.

 

Ron

 

I've never been lost. Fearsome confused sometimes, but never lost.

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quote:
Originally posted by Ron Streeter:

quote:
Originally posted by Green Achers:

So I guess 74 caches in 24 hours is just not possible in the CVC area?!? To tell you the true, I can hardly believe someone can get two dozen caches in a day. But boy, would I like to give it a try.

 

_Bill of Green Achers_

 


 

Hey Bill....

 

I saw this pic on a cache in Sac nearby one of the caches they couldn't find. The *missing* one had been taken by the Sac cache police.

 

http://img.Groundspeak.com/cache/log/1322788_200.JPG

 

Ron

 

__I've never been lost. Fearsome confused sometimes, but never lost.__


Just as I thought, the three cachers didn't sign the logs during they're run. It looks like a sticker with three names, but any one of them could have been putting those on. Or, they could have added Green Achers to the sticker (and I would have been fat with finds).

 

Sorry but it doesn't look right to me... IMHO. I've seen single cachers that use stickers to sign after their entry and I think that's find. But how does anyone know all three of these guys found each of those caches? I'd guess one of them found a cache and stayed there to sign the log while the other two ran ahead to do the same.

 

74 is too amazing for me. Enough said.

 

Bill of Green Achers

 

"The Early Bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese" Author unknown.

 

39570_500.jpg

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Maybe the three guys were practicing the "one find, all find" technique like some other folks. I could see racking up lots of quick finds if you did it that way.

 

When I cache with other people, we always agree that when someone finds the cache, they will then just step back and let the rest continue to search..kinda like the scenario at the old oak tree in Ripon! icon_biggrin.gif

 

I do know that not everyone practices that same caching style. Many people go on mad cache dashes where they want to rack up numbers while in the company of friends and fellow cachers, so as soon as one person finds it, the rest of the group logs the find as well without ever really technically "finding" the cache themselves. Since there is no rule against that, it's cool, but I prefer to personally find each and every cache that I log.

 

NO offense is meant to anyone who does the group caching thing either..to each his/her own! icon_smile.gif

 

Jaimee

 

"What a fine thing it is to have an intellect, and room enough in the seat of your breeches to hold it."

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Hey Ron, I just came from Marin and had a DNF on a new cache. Also check out this post from another Marin cache.

 

Indian Valley Cache by turkeypeople

Use waypoint: GC1F49

 

April 28 by sianjoaquine (1 found)

i found your cache, not sure what it was, so didn't look inside. i was scared to open it in case it was contaminated. it was dangerously near a huge branch of poison oak. these geocaching activities are not necessarily a good idea, it's an excuse to leave trash around in open space. why do people always want to leave their mark on nature? what's the point of doing this? i think it endangers the environment.

 

Sounds like a nice cacher.

 

Don

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Hey Forman...

 

Take a look at his revised find post !

 

*************

 

i found your cache, not sure what it was, so didn't look inside. it was dangerously near a huge branch of poison oak. this is the first time i saw one, and i'd never heard of geocaching until now. Now I know more, I will go back and look inside. it was raining and my dog disturbed a deer and chased it up the hill. I know this place well as I hike in this area almost every day with my dog.

 

[last edit: 4/29/2003 7:44:42 PM PST]

 

[last edit: 4/29/2003 7:48:19 PM PST]

 

************

 

Why don't you send him the URL for this thread and let him know we are watching!

 

Ron

 

I've never been lost. Fearsome confused sometimes, but never lost.

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hello all - I just started caching today for the first time. I'm in Stockton, near the Delta Campus, so I started off with Ron's Delta Dawn (GC53A1) and that was a good start. I continued on to "Squirrels Stash" (GC174F) next, and was stumped, however. Spent a good 45 minutes crashing through the bushes and got nothing. I see that it was last "found" 2 days ago, so I would assume that it's still around.

 

I purchased myself a Garmin eTrex Vista to get me around, and it seems to do quite well - also got setup with EasyGPS for the downloading.

 

Are there any regular or semi-regular meetings/parties etc for Central Valley folk to mingle and discuss, etc?

 

Hope to hear from you all.

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quote:
Originally posted by nubbin:

hello all - I just started caching today for the first time. I'm in Stockton, near the Delta Campus, so I started off with Ron's Delta Dawn (GC53A1) and that was a good start. I continued on to "Squirrels Stash" (GC174F) next, and was stumped, however. Spent a good 45 minutes crashing through the bushes and got nothing. I see that it was last "found" 2 days ago, so I would assume that it's still around.


You may want to come back for that one. It's not necessarily a beginners cache but there has been a clue added last I heard.

 

quote:

 

I purchased myself a Garmin eTrex Vista to get me around, and it seems to do quite well - also got setup with EasyGPS for the downloading.

 

Are there any regular or semi-regular meetings/parties etc for Central Valley folk to mingle and discuss, etc?

 

Hope to hear from you all.


 

george

 

Wanna go for a ride?

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Originally posted by georgeandmary:

You may want to come back for that one. It's not necessarily a beginners cache but there has been a clue added last I heard.

 

Duly noted - I'll hit it again tomorrow. what would you *locals* suggest as the most fun for a beginner in and around Stockton?

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Picnic/gathering this Sunday

 

Hi Central Valley Cachers,

 

Here's a reminder that we're having a first-time regional get-together this coming Sunday, May 4 at Fremont Central Park. You're all invited, of course. Please go over to the cache page and RSVP, if you haven't already. Looking forward to meeting many of you!

 

Picnic details

 

-TeamJiffy

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Old Oak Tree

 

Don't remind me. (mr.Last to find). But, I did find it and didn't just sign the log because someone else in that huge group found it 1st and then pointed it out. More fun that way.

 

Anyways, I did a little planting out in Tracy. Time to annoy folks out that way. icon_biggrin.gif

 

If a little Brute Force doesn't work, try using a lot!

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OK, here's the deal...

 

The first person to correctly identify the cache associated with this log page wins 50 big ones ! That's right, name the cache and I will give you 50, count 'em 50, of the REGULAR size film containers.

 

That's right, not those cheesy squished, pansy-*** containers, the REGULAR ones! Second runner up gets 25 containers.

 

Ready?

 

gps.jpg

 

I've never been lost. Fearsome confused sometimes, but never lost.

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quote:
Originally posted by Brute-Force:

_Old Oak Tree_

 

Don't remind me. (mr.Last to find).


 

Were YOU the last to find that day Brute?? That must have slipped my mind!!! icon_biggrin.gificon_razz.gificon_biggrin.gif

 

That was a fun time though. We were laughing so hard when we saw everyone there. Must've been that old CVC pride getting the best of everyone!

 

Jaimee

 

"What a fine thing it is to have an intellect, and room enough in the seat of your breeches to hold it."

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quote:
Originally posted by JaimeeG:

That would be Cattail 2, placed by Short Circuit!

 

Jaimee icon_biggrin.gif

 


 

We have a winner! Jaimee, you and your family will be flown from Ceres to Stockton where you will be met by a stretch limo and escorted to the Motel 6 at Benjamin Holt and I-5.

 

Jeremy Irish will present you with your film containers (magnets not included) and you will also receive the bonus prize of 2 EverReady batteries (AAA size).

 

Thanks Jaimee for participating in our contest and Ed McMahon will be contacting you soon with flight information.

 

Ron

 

I've never been lost. Fearsome confused sometimes, but never lost.

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Thank you...thankyouverymuch.

 

I can hardly wait for my big trip! I was kinda hoping for an overnighter in French Camp, but Stockton will be a fine substitute.

 

Sheesh..and here I always say I never win anything! icon_biggrin.gif

 

Jaimee

 

"What a fine thing it is to have an intellect, and room enough in the seat of your breeches to hold it."

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Local Approver? But he (or she) will know and understand the area! icon_wink.gif I'm glad to see one near by and not surprised to learn they have over 200 finds.

 

Hey, Ron has over 200 finds and what a front to have him bring all this topic up.

 

Yesterday, I stopped off in Tracy to hunt the Stroller Friendly cache but ended up adding my DNF to the growing list. I think the cache is not missing, rather the coordinates are off. The reason for this is that while the area is ok for a cache, there are way better areas within a 100 to 200 feet of those coordinates. I don't have the time but if I do find some, I'm going back and thinking outside the box.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Bill of Green Achers

 

"The Early Bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese" Author unknown.

 

39570_500.jpg

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quote:
Originally posted by Green Achers:

Yesterday, I stopped off in Tracy to hunt the http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=62682 cache


 

I think that 5 visits and as many DNFs at least would give the cache owner reason to go check on it. The placer of that cache had some problems with coordinates on another of his caches, so I would definitely not spend hours hunting this one.

 

Jaimee icon_smile.gif

 

"What a fine thing it is to have an intellect, and room enough in the seat of your breeches to hold it."

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I emailed *red* the day I looked for it and he said he would be checking on it, so I suspect he will...meanwhile, I don't think I'd go back or if I hadn't been there, don't think I would go after that many DNFs.

 

Ron

 

I've never been lost. Fearsome confused sometimes, but never lost.

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[Heart Thumping] But it's a possible FTF!

 

Guess I'll just do my homework this weekend. icon_frown.gif Maybe, I'd be better off investing that possible free time into a mass-cache-dash. I don't think anyone's ever logged 80 in a 24 hour period yet. icon_biggrin.gif

 

Bill of Green Achers

 

"The Early Bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese" Author unknown.

 

39570_500.jpg

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quote:
Originally posted by Ron Streeter:

_Probably no CVC takers for this one, but..._

 

...here's another hiking cache.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=66794&Nocache=0.7055475 icon_smile.gif

 

Ron

 

__I've never been lost. Fearsome confused sometimes, but never lost.__


 

I love hiking ones, but I'm too cheap to do a membership when there are still hundreds of caches within a half-hour drive of me. Hopefully it'll stick around for me to exhaust the "free" ones, and once I shell out some cache to do the members-only cahces it'll still be around.

 

Jason Roysdon

jason.roysdon.net

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quote:
Originally posted by GeoSharks:

quote:
Originally posted by nubbin:

Duly noted - I'll hit it again tomorrow. what would you *locals* suggest as the most fun for a beginner in and around Stockton?


 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.asp?ID=36127 is easy


 

I typically wouldn't drive all the way to the Bay for this, but it's just a block away from the Fremont BART, so I may just try and make it out (the BART is always fun for the kids, but I just found out they have a friend's birthday party to attend... but that won't stop JWR and myself) and I don't mind traveling that way and just having to drive to Dublin/Pleasanton.

 

Jason Roysdon

jason.roysdon.net

 

[This message was edited by elmo-fried on May 02, 2003 at 06:14 PM.]

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Heading to San Diego...

 

I am going to San Diego Thursday, Friday, & Saturday for a work convention. Plan do some caching while down there. If you have any bugs that need to head south let me know. If there are any caches that I shouldn't miss while there, let me know that too. Thanks.

 

David of the Camelot Crew

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quote:
Originally posted by elmo-fried:

but I'm too cheap to do a membership when there are still hundreds of caches within a half-hour drive of me. Hopefully it'll stick around for me to exhaust the "free" ones, and once I shell out some cache to do the members-only cahces it'll still be around.

 

Jason Roysdon

http://jason.roysdon.net/

 

I see the premium member tag is up now. Guess Elmo-Fried had a change of heart.

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quote:
Originally posted by Camelot Crew:

Heading to San Diego...

 

I am going to San Diego Thursday, Friday, & Saturday for a work convention. Plan do some caching while down there. If you have any bugs that need to head south let me know. If there are any caches that I shouldn't miss while there, let me know that too. Thanks.

 

David of the Camelot Crew


I wanta go to S.D. [whaa] If I put a Trave Bug tag around my neck, will you take me? I need a vacation... too much ''home work.''

 

Bill of Green Achers

 

"The Early Bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese" Author unknown.

 

39570_500.jpg

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quote:
Originally posted by Green Achers:

I wanta go to S.D. [whaa] If I put a Trave Bug tag around my neck, will you take me? I need a vacation... too much ''home work.''

 

_Bill of Green Achers_


 

Sure thing Bill. My flight leaves Thursday AM. Be ready to hop into my suitcase then and I'll take you with me. You'll have to jocky Zach for space as he wants to hitch hike along too. icon_smile.gif

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quote:
Originally posted by Camelot Crew:

quote:
Originally posted by elmo-fried:

but I'm too cheap to do a membership when there are still hundreds of caches within a half-hour drive of me. Hopefully it'll stick around for me to exhaust the "free" ones, and once I shell out some cache to do the members-only cahces it'll still be around.

 

Jason Roysdon

http://jason.roysdon.net/

 

I see the premium member tag is up now. Guess Elmo-Fried had a change of heart.


 

Heh, well, it's only $3 to try it out for a month. I've got 924 caches in my GPS, and 500 for Fresno, Sacramento, San Francisco and Modesto on my laptop in Wacher...

 

I could care less about member-only caches thus far... Pocket Queries are more than worth the fee, IMHO.

 

Jason Roysdon

jason.roysdon.net

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quote:
Originally posted by elmo-fried:

I could care less about member-only caches thus far... Pocket Queries are more than worth the fee, IMHO.


You said it. Since Time is more valueable than Money, I treasure anything that makes my life easier. Since farming pays around $2/Hr (to the farmer), I can verify that I save well over 1.5 Hours/Month because of my membership. In fact, the Pocket Queries pays for it's self each week.

 

General Question...

What happened to the CVC Tag!!! Cache? Do I need to get off this tractor and go get it for you'al?

 

Bill of Green Achers

 

"The Early Bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese" Author unknown.

 

39570_500.jpg

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quote:
Originally posted by Green Achers:

 

General Question...

What happened to the http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=46796 Do I need to get off this tractor and go get it for you'al?

 

_Bill of Green Achers_


 

Matt passes by the cache about 4 times a week but keeps forgetting to get the find. I was last to find so I can't touch it.

 

george

 

Wanna go for a ride?

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Gee, I wonder how often I go past it? I totally forgot about that one. I need to check.

 

You guys thought I got around a lot before? Well, I got a promotion. Now, this District Manager gets to cache from Sacramento all the way down to the border. Even in Reno at times. icon_biggrin.gificon_biggrin.gificon_biggrin.gif

 

If a little Brute Force doesn't work, try using a lot!

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quote:
Originally posted by Brute-Force:

Now, this District Manager gets to cache from Sacramento all the way down to the border. Even in Reno at times. icon_biggrin.gificon_biggrin.gificon_biggrin.gif


That's a little out of the county, but I'm sure George would be willing to go there to get old Tag back. icon_biggrin.gif Just kidding. I'd love to go get it but don't even have time to hunt the close ones right now.

 

I have a cache in Reno but it's not close to your travels, Brute. It is an interesting stop though.

 

Bill of Green Achers

 

"The Early Bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese" Author unknown.

 

39570_500.jpg

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