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Central Valley Cachers


Fattuhr

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This certainly makes one think twice about placing full sized caches in urban areas, especially sensitive locations like schools and bridges. I don't think I'm going to archive all my caches, but I might think about archiving ones that might be questionable placements.

 

If a bomb squad xrays your cache and they see what looks like batteries and wires (a spiral bound notebook can look like wire), it is in their best interest to detonate the cache. Without actually being there, we don't really what was going through their heads. They may have been totally justified. Just because something is marked in a particular way (e.g. like a geocache) doesn't necessarily mean it is 100% safe.

 

I don't think there needs to be any finger pointing or rash actions. I think we just need to learn from the experience and move forward.

 

--Marky

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They may have been totally justified. Just because something is marked in a particular way (e.g. like a geocache) doesn't necessarily mean it is 100% safe.

Thats exactly what I was thinking, I mean so what if it had geocaching on it, there are people out in the world willing to strap a bomb to themselves and do the dirty, so whats a black sharpie pen writting on a wierd looking box going to do, to not raise attention. Luckily I don't think I have big caches in urban areas that I can recall.......

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So now what? Is the MPD going after Camel? thats what iam sitting here wanting to know? Do they know who placed it ect? We are behind our fellow cachers 100% hang in there Camel. I still think the MPD jumped the gun on this one. I just hope this all works out for everyone. I dont think we need to go around and take our caches back and archive them, that would just be giving in too them and doing what they want us to do. Maybe the ones on school grounds, close to police stations ect. owners may want to remove them? Yes we do need to move on and this will/ maybe something we all can learn from.

 

Hang in there Camel!!!

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So now what? Is the MPD going after Camel? thats what iam sitting here wanting to know? Do they know who placed it ect? We are behind our fellow cachers 100% hang in there Camel. I still think the MPD jumped the gun on this one. I just hope this all works out for everyone. I dont think we need to go around and take our caches back and archive them, that would just be giving in too them and doing what they want us to do. Maybe the ones on school grounds, close to police stations ect. owners may want to remove them?  Yes we do need to move on and this will/ maybe something we all can learn from.

 

Hang in there Camel!!!

I want to thank all of you who are showing support. And giving good advice. I truly appreciate it.

Edited by Camel680
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So now what? Is the MPD going after Camel? thats what iam sitting here wanting to know? Do they know who placed it ect? We are behind our fellow cachers 100% hang in there Camel. I still think the MPD jumped the gun on this one. I just hope this all works out for everyone. I dont think we need to go around and take our caches back and archive them, that would just be giving in too them and doing what they want us to do. Maybe the ones on school grounds, close to police stations ect. owners may want to remove them?  Yes we do need to move on and this will/ maybe something we all can learn from.

 

Hang in there Camel!!!

I just got off the phone with a friend of mine who is a police officer. They are going after Camel, but we do not know to what extent. My friend did say that they are considering this to be extremely serious and would not specify what (if any) charges would be held against Camel. We are all hoping for the best.

 

I am quite sure that Camel would appreciate any moral support that comes his way. As it was mentioned many times before, it is a simple game played by families with absolutly no malicious intent whatsoever. (In fact, it is just the opposite as we promote cleaning the surroundings, watching for suspicious activities, etc...) It is really quite sad that the MPD cannot take the 2 minutes that it might have taken them to research the contents of the container. (Simply logging on to Geocaching.com might have at least provided them with ONE possibility of the contents).

Edited by Sanruft
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So now what? Is the MPD going after Camel? thats what iam sitting here wanting to know? Do they know who placed it ect? We are behind our fellow cachers 100% hang in there Camel. I still think the MPD jumped the gun on this one. I just hope this all works out for everyone. I dont think we need to go around and take our caches back and archive them, that would just be giving in too them and doing what they want us to do. Maybe the ones on school grounds, close to police stations ect. owners may want to remove them?  Yes we do need to move on and this will/ maybe something we all can learn from.

 

Hang in there Camel!!!

I just got off the phone with a friend of mine who is a police officer. They are going after Camel, but we do not know to what extent. My friend did say that they are considering this to be extremely serious and would not specify what (if any) charges would be held against Camel. (But he believed it was for a felony).

 

I am quite sure that Camel would appreciate any moral support that comes his way. As it was mentioned many times before, it is a simple game played by families with absolutly no malicious intent whatsoever. (In fact, it is just the opposite as we promote cleaning the surroundings, watching for suspicious activities, etc...) It is really quite sad that the MPD cannot take the 2 minutes that it might have taken them to research the contents of the container. (Simply logging on to Geocaching.com might have at least provided them with ONE possibility of the contents).

Thats taking it way too far. I now agree with you camel 100%, hang in there, if there is any justice left in this world we'll find it.

Edited by TeamTek
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So now what? Is the MPD going after Camel? thats what iam sitting here wanting to know? Do they know who placed it ect? We are behind our fellow cachers 100% hang in there Camel. I still think the MPD jumped the gun on this one. I just hope this all works out for everyone. I dont think we need to go around and take our caches back and archive them, that would just be giving in too them and doing what they want us to do. Maybe the ones on school grounds, close to police stations ect. owners may want to remove them?  Yes we do need to move on and this will/ maybe something we all can learn from.

 

Hang in there Camel!!!

I just got off the phone with a friend of mine who is a police officer. They are going after Camel, but we do not know to what extent. My friend did say that they are considering this to be extremely serious and would not specify what (if any) charges would be held against Camel. (But he believed it was for a felony).

 

I am quite sure that Camel would appreciate any moral support that comes his way. As it was mentioned many times before, it is a simple game played by families with absolutly no malicious intent whatsoever. (In fact, it is just the opposite as we promote cleaning the surroundings, watching for suspicious activities, etc...) It is really quite sad that the MPD cannot take the 2 minutes that it might have taken them to research the contents of the container. (Simply logging on to Geocaching.com might have at least provided them with ONE possibility of the contents).

This is a very sad situation indeed & a black eye to Geocaching in general. I really feel however that the parties involved over reacted & perhaps are using this as an example to others. It's warrented post 9/11 to have bomb squads, but common sense should have prevailed in this situation & we all should've laughed & learned from it & maybe went away with alittle egg on our faces. However the way the authorities are handling this to the fulliest extent is ridicules! I could just see it now, Pulled the entire police force off important cases, brought in the bomb squad & bomb sniffing dogs, entire neighborhood moved, Emergency medical personell on the ready at a moments notice & all for what?? I've seen plenty of suspicious packages & containers in & around town & places where they shouldn't be but does anyone think to panic! Was there a history of bombings in the area or unknown suspect bomber that lead the authorities to react this way??? Besides the Unibomber back in '95 can anyone remember a random bombing here in Ca? The last bombing in the US? Oaklahoma? & that was a car bomb! WTC? Believe me I'm very glad to have the sevices of these fine people, but this is just absolutely ridicules! Maybe they should consider hiring a consultant from the Geocaching community. It would save everyone alot of $$$. I'm sorry that this has happened to you Camel & feel this should've never gotten to point that it has.

Wishing the best for you & your family.

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would not specify what (if any) charges would be held against Camel. (But he believed it was for a felony)

 

Crap... I'm on your side.

THAT'S A BUNCH OF, sorry cant say that here!!!! If that is true MPD will get a letter from us to state our minds.

 

Monday iam making a few calls to my law buddies to to see what the facts are here.

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Camel, I feel awful about all this mess. It doesn't seam to make sense so it's confusing to all of us. It's kind of strange that a little plastic box that's intended to bring so many happy adventures has become the focal point of so much attention.

 

I hope you'll feel better after talking to the investigators and they see this is really a family game and not the horror they've turned it into. There aren't too many people more honest, caring than you. I'm guessing they'll get their answers and then work on spinning this mess down.

 

It's my hope and prayer that we're all worring over nothing. The hardest part is not knowing. What made them concerned about this and how can we prevent it from being a concern in the future? I don't know. This is a sad event to add to the years of fun.

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Camel: Ditto what Green Achers said. For what it's worth, I called a Stockton Police officer friend of mine who tells me that the way the Modesto PD handled the container is standard procedure, except that they should have been able to xray it. But, as someone else mentioned, if it had batteries and a spiral notebook it could still look suspicious. Bottom line is that it's better to blast it open than to take a chance and have someone get hurt. Most likely they used a water cannon to open it.

 

Camel, If you haven't already talked to MPD, I would suggest that you call your lawyer, (you do know a lawyer don't you) and have him/her make some inquiries for you with the MPD. I can't imagine you being in any serious trouble. The key here would be your intent in placing the container. If you were trying to make people think it was a bomb, that would be serious, but you weren't, and that should become fairly obvious when they look into this further. In any event, we feel for you and hope this works out OK.

 

T&R

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Ok, I went out today and got my 300th. I went to Turlock to get the letterbox hybrid there because I didn't have one of those. I get home and start to log my caches and find a good majority of those I got today were archived today.

 

It is sad that in our fear driven world that we must quit a hobby we love because some yahoo wants to keep us afraid for their own profit and greed. I for one will not quit this game because of fear. I will check very closely as to where I place and look for caches for now on. Most of my caches are in cemeteries. Because some jerk stole the flags from a cemetery in Sac I should pull all my caches???? We know not to place them near schools, Police stations, bridges, RR tracks etc. We should not be upset when they (the government) remove them. Finally, I feel for you Camel and our hearts and prayers go out to you. My question is "What can they DO????" Where is the crime??? The only thing I might think they could charge you with is littering. Just because their paranoid, fearful minds thought the palstic Mc Trinkets were dangerous does not make it so! Innocent until proven guilty right??? It is not a matter of the terrorist winning, those in our own government who profit from war are the winners by keeping us afraid. This is just another victory for those who profit from that. By pulling your caches you let them win and we lose another of our freedoms.

 

Peace!

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Camel680, I'm thinking of you and praying for you as well. I don't think you have anything to worry about, really: after all, you did nothing illegal. Your geocaching friends will be here for you.

 

I have always felt a little funny about placing full-sized caches in urban areas. I know there are many people who dislike micros, but a film canister is not likely to provoke this kind of response. A camoed Altoids tin might, I suppose, and I do have one cache that could present a problem like this. I will have to think about what I want to do with it.

 

But here's the main thing: caches out in the boonies are NOT going to be a problem! So if any of you feel you must archive caches, please use a little common sense. If you have any near schools or Top Secret Government Facilities, maybe they should be archived, especially if they are full-sized caches. But if you have a tupperware container in a park near a bike path in Modesto, then don't over-react!

 

The way the world is, now, this kind of thing is going to continue to happen. I strongly disagree that this event was a "black eye" for geocaching. It was a simple misunderstanding; that's all. As an American, I am not about to give up my right to a healthy recreational activity that poses no threat to anyone. Should paintballers have to give up their sport because somebody might think they are terrorists? Should amateur pilots have to give up their hobby because somebody could use an airplane as a bomb? No. In both cases, the participants have to be careful and obey certain regulations; it's the same with our activity.

 

If we quit, then the terrorists will have won.

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Ok, I went out today and got my 300th. I went to Turlock to get the letterbox hybrid there because I didn't have one of those. I get home and start to log my caches and find a good majority of those I got today were archived today.

 

It is sad that in our fear driven world that we must quit a hobby we love because some yahoo wants to keep us afraid for their own profit and greed. I for one will not quit this game because of fear. I will check very closely as to where I place and look for caches for now on. Most of my caches are in cemeteries. Because some jerk stole the flags from a cemetery in Sac I should pull all my caches???? We know not to place them near schools, Police stations, bridges, RR tracks etc. We should not be upset when they (the government) remove them. Finally, I feel for you Camel and our hearts and prayers go out to you. My question is "What can they DO????" Where is the crime??? The only thing I might think they could charge you with is littering. Just because their paranoid, fearful minds thought the palstic Mc Trinkets were dangerous does not make it so! Innocent until proven guilty right??? It is not a matter of the terrorist winning, those in our own government who profit from war are the winners by keeping us afraid. This is just another victory for those who profit from that. By pulling your caches you let them win and we lose another of our freedoms.

 

Peace!

I agree to all parts, however, it IS just a game and (for me) not worth the headaches that the recent events have shown.

 

I have decided to NOT archive all of my caches, just ones that could be mistaken for "non-friendly" devices. I have already removed these caches and archived them. For the remaining caches that I have placed, they have only been temporarily disabled until we find out more information about what is happening.

 

I may be a little sensitive about the issue, but as one that works with Camel, lives across the street from Camel and am very good friends with him, I have seen first hand how it can bring some undeserved anguish to someone that clearly does not deserve it. As Bill said, he is a fantastic individual who truly loves this hobby and really looks forward to the days he spends with his children seeking out the McTreasures. I guess I can see the same thing happening to anyone one of us, and I don't want to make it any easier for those who want to use this as an excuse to frighten the masses.

 

I believe that all will turn out ok for Camel. He has tons of support and I am sure that those in charge will eventually view this for what it supposed to be...A family activity. Unfortunately (and fortunately), this incident has changed the way I will be viewing caching.

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Congrats to Wildlifeguy on his 300th!!! We were excited that you chose our letterbox to celebrate your milestone! Yes, we have archived all of our regular sized caches that were placed close to schools, hospitals, mailboxes or any other building that might seem suspicious. We love geocaching and we will continue to place and find caches, but we will proceed with caution...

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Camel, we out here in Southeastern Arizona are pulling for you 100%!! I hope you can find a way to persuay those knuckleheads that it's "just a game!!" There is no reason any of you should stop doing what you love because of some BS like this..

 

Our thoughts are with you Camel, and we hope things work out for you in the end!

 

Team Furnas Hooligans

Southeast Arizona

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Hey Guy's....lots happened since I was in here last.

 

First.....Camel....ditto to what everyone else is saying....100% behind you.....also to everyone else

 

THIS IS THE GREATEST GROUP IN THE WORLD :rolleyes: ....I love it how everyone is banding together in this time of need for our fellow geocacher

 

Anyway...I'm sorry for all the poeple who have to take away their caches. I don't think I have any that would fit the description but I'll keep it in mind next time!!

 

Happy (and smart) Hunting!!

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I was online logging some caches I found today in the St. Louis, Mo. area and thought I'd check on the forums... I am stunned and sickened to read about the fallout from the Lion's Pride cache. I simply don't know what to say other than Camel, you and your family are definitely in my thoughts and prayers.

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Sorry forman but that is probably not the best way to go about handling it. What happens next time.

 

Here's what I have done, and would suggest the rest of us to do.

 

I SENT AN EMAIL, here it is, to the MPD

 

Hello,

I am a resident of Calaveras county and became aware that the other day the MPD destroyed a gamepiece in the worldwide game of geocacheing. I was wondering why? Also, from reading the online forums related to the game, the MPD is searching for the player who placed this geocache with the threat of criminal prosecution and or paying for the departments time. Again, I must ask Why? What charges could be brought against somebody for partaking in a legal activity? There are geocaches in over 200 countries worldwide including countries like Iraq. Why are geocaches being destroyed by MPD when geocaches are surviving in war torn countries.

 

I come to Modesto quite often for business, shopping, and recreation. If the loss of freedoms are to occur in your fair city, I am afraid I will take my money elsewhere and tell all my friends and associates to do the same. Please return my email and tell me that Modesto is not pursuing criminal or financial damages to an honest citizen playing a legal and harmless game.

 

Thank you for your time and consideration in this matter.

 

Sincerely

 

Richard Enderlein (aka Wildlifeguy on the geocaching website, www.geocaching.com)

renderlein@hotmail.com

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I just googled Modesto Police Department and on their main page is a "Contact Us" button. I believe it was www.modestopolice.com.

 

My wife suggested letters because we all know how emails can be blown off. Their address is 600 10th Street, Modesto, CA 95354 (209) 572-9500, also from the website. Also for those who wish some measure of annominity can use the snail mail.

 

Remember Camel, we're here for you!

 

Peace!

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As many of you know, there is a second case where the over zellous bomb squad ran a muck - spining up the community. It took place the day before the MPD spun things up over here. The details on these two situations are somewhat different but so far the results are the same. We're still watching and wondering what's going on as far as legallity - as no one is interested in breaking the law.

 

The following posting was placed on the thread following the 10/27/04 case. I think it's worth reposting on this thread as it really relates to the 10/28/04 case.

 

--------

 

From An Unhappy Sheriff.

 

RiverExplorer

 

Posted: Oct 30 2004, 10:37 PM

 

 

 

Burrs in my socks? It's been a good day!

 

Posts: 7

Joined: 28-February 03

 

 

 

I just sent the following Letter to the Editor of the Chronicle-Tribune. Comments welcome.

 

To The Editor:

 

I’m writing today to address an article published in your Saturday, October 30th, 2004 issue, under the heading “Some boos and cheers for recent events - News brings pats on the back, raps on the knuckles”. Specifically, regarding the item stating the following:

 

“A BOO for Upland resident David Cook, who trespassed onto private property as part of a so-called game and left a suspicious package on the property, resulting in unnecessary hassles for law-enforcement authorities and worries for the property owners. Cook left a gray plastic container on the property of a Blackford County restaurant as part of a GPS location game affiliated with an Internet Web site. As it turned out, the box contained harmless junk, but no one knew that at the time. That came after a police bomb squad was called in to detonate the box. In this post-9/11 world, stunts such as this are un-called for. Playing so-called adventure games is fine, but use common sense. That means don't trespass, and don't leave suspicious packages stashed about.”

 

Several misstatements and unfortunate inferences are made, which should be corrected, to prevent the general public from forming the wrong opinion regarding the activity/ sport known as GEOCACHING.

 

First, it is NOT correct that Mr. Cook trespassed onto private property. The owner of the business has stated that he gave permission to hide the cache at that location, and was allowing geocachers to enter his property for the purpose of hunting the cache. Unfortunately, the owner was not present at this time, and may not have informed some of his employees about the activity. Those employees, RIGHTFULLY SO, reported what they felt was suspicious behavior to the proper authorities. Mr. Cook was just unlucky enough to be perceived to represent a possible threat, when he wasn’t. Again, he was doing nothing illegal, just unusual enough to attract unwanted attention.

 

Secondly, the use of the term “so-called game”, with it’s pejorative connotations, was inappropriate, in my opinion. The game/ sport of Geocaching is a growing, well established, legal, wholesome, family-friendly activity, complete with rules and regulations, organized oversight, big corporate sponsors, and well established legal and environmental ethics.

 

Geocaching is done within the law, and with the permission of land owners and land managers. It is enjoyed by over 13,500 [NOTE: This number is wrong. Try over 150,000 cachers. Bill] registered participants, from all walks of life. Over 127,000 caches are currently placed in 211 countries. I personally know law enforcement officers, firefighters, retirees, ministers, business owners, community leaders, and a host of wholesome families who enjoy geocaching, and who would not even consider breaking any laws. Geocaching is often taught to scouting groups as part of orienteering, and is undertaken by school classes as part of math and science studies. This is not some “fringe” activities done by swarthy, senseless scofflaws, as seems to be the notion of the writer.

 

Another inaccuracy is that Mr. Cook “left a suspicious package” at the site. The container in question was already located there, and had been since July 10th, and had been found by at least 8 other geocachers (without incident) during that time. Mr. Cook FOUND the container there, exchanged tokens in it, and signed it’s logbook, then replaced the container as he found it.

 

Still another incorrect statement was that “no one knew” at the time that the box was harmless. When Mr. Cook was detained by authorities at the site, he explained the game, detailed the contents of the box, and even offered to open it for them to reassure them it was not a threat. While I can understand the authorities apprehension in accepting him at his word, several things might have been done to verify his truthfulness, including checking the internet site to confirm that there was indeed a cache placed there. This alone would have shown that his story was believable, as well as provided information about the cache’s placement, how long it had been there, and how many other cachers had visited it before.

 

Despite the information that was available to them, the box was destroyed as a precaution. I DO NOT fault officials for doing this for the safety of all involved, but it is not fair to state that “no one knew” the box was harmless.

 

No “stunt” was undertaken, and Mr. Cook was only doing what thousands of people do every day around the country, and around the world. Mr. Cook, nor his fellow geocachers, deserve the scorn or public humiliation of your so-called “Boo”. The only thing “un-called for” here, is the tone and inaccuracy of the article.

 

No blame should be placed on either Mr. Cook, the citizens who reported the incident, or the Sheriff’s Department for rightfully taking precautions to protect public safety.

 

Many safeguards are already in place to help minimize these misunderstandings. Geocachers are encouraged to use “friendly-looking” containers, complete with labels explaining what the container is, and where to get more information on the web. Caches are not allowed in areas that might reasonably pose a concern, or be seen as a possible threat, including areas around bridges, active railways, airports, etc. Cache owners need to secure permission from land owners before placing caches on private property, and are asked to contact appropriate governmental agencies, regarding their policies about placing caches on public lands, getting permission where required.

 

Many land managers welcome geocaching on the properties they maintain, as an approved land use, and many of those same land managers will attest to the good stewardship demonstrated by the cachers that frequent these parks.

 

Cachers often take it upon themselves to educate local officials about their activity, to prevent situations like this one from arising. Contrary to your article’s conclusion, most cachers ARE using common sense, are NOT trespassers, and are diligently working to prevent these types of incidents. We are all painfully aware of the new reality of terrorism in America, and most of us are working hard to provide the necessary safeguards, while continuing to enjoy our pastime in a safe and legal manner.

 

What IS needed is for the geocaching community to do a better job of communicating with law enforcement and the general public about our sport, to help prevent misunderstanding in the future, as more and more people enjoy this activity. Those efforts are currently underway. As we say in the geocaching community “We’re workin’ on it.”

 

We invite the public to learn more about geocaching at the following web sites:

www.geocaching.com and www.geocacher-u.com

But be warned, a visit to these sites might be all it takes to get you hooked!!

 

Note: Next Sunday’s Parade Magazine will include an enlightening article on geocaching.

 

Mark Shanks

611 N. Will St.

Shelbyville, IL 62565

mshanks@mac.com

(217) 369-1187

 

--------------------

 

"We shall not cease from exploration

And the end of all our exploring

Will be to arrive at where we started

And know the place for the first time." - T.S. Elliot

 

Well said. :D

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Wow! I wish I had that post when I sent my email to MPD. There were many things in there I would like to have incorporated. C'Est La vie!

 

Very interesting that two incidents have occurred so close to each other in time though. To go for so long without an incident makes you wonder if TPTB have ramped up security precautions with the election so imminent???

 

Peace!

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I'm obviously new around here. I can see both sides of this discussion. It seem that Modesto may have been able to get around this, but they took the safe route, and did what they felt was in the best interest of their citizens. In the same situation, I would have done the same thing, except that I would have KNOWN to expect it there-it'd be in my Garmin and PalmPilot.(I also wear a uniform-here in Sacto though).

 

The other possibility would have been worse. Had it turned out to be a real device and they lost an officer, 100X more damage would have been done to geocaching than what has happened so far. So, try to be understanding of the Dept.'s position, and their responsibility to the citizens (all of them, not just geocachers). Also, most big departments have bomb squads, and can be VERY active. Don't think it has to be Unabombers to bring them out. They deal with everything from IEDs(such as pipe bombs) to illegal/modified fireworks.

 

The issue of going after the person who placed it there is different, and I can't/won't speak to that.

 

I too empathize with those expressing well wishes to the person who placed the cache.

My $0.02.

Edited by rolncode3
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Letter sent to Medeso PD.

*************************************

 

I am a volunteer fireman and have been running both fire and squad for 14+ years in Ohio. I understand your decision to blow up the geocache placed on school property as a prevention measure. I understand that in spite of it being clearly labeled, there is no way for you to have known what was really inside the container and that you needed to take actions to insure that no one was hurt. The person who placed the cache should have asked for permission to place the cache before doing so.

 

I don’t understand why you are going to seek criminal charges against the person who placed the cache however. Have we come this far in losing common sense? It makes me wonder. I also wonder if you stop and blow up every box or bag you find near the school. You don’t know what’s in them. As far as that goes, who’s to say what’s really in the trash can on the sidewalk anyway? Sure it looks like a trash can, and perhaps it is. Then again, perhaps it’s a trash can full of explosives. How can you be sure if you don’t blow it up. Should you blow up the school too? Might be some explosives in there as well.

 

I know I’m exaggerating just a bit but I hope you can see my point. Paranoia can destroy people. It creates many wrongs. Sure we live in a post 9/11 society but I’m also reminded major world powers don’t fall due to outside attacks. They ALWAYS fall due to a meltdown from the inside out. I think that perhaps the terrorist of 9/11 have done far more damage to our country than to have burned down two large buildings. Indeed they set off a chain reaction of fear and panic that has moved all the way from New York to Medesto California. Their destruction of our country’s spirit seems to have been very successful indeed. You’ve allowed them to win in Medesto.

 

I think a reasonable balance is required here. You felt you needed to blow up the cache because you felt it was somehow more of a threat to the students than the trash cans or cars parked outside. Ok, I’ve been on EMS long enough that I’ll trust your instincts on this one. What I really can’t understand however is your desire to turn this into a criminal prosecution and draw the attention of an entire nation to your paranoia.

 

By the way, I’ve been to Medesto. I went there on business and to do some geocaching. I stayed an extra day in your town just so I could hunt some local caches. I spent my money in the Medesto hotel and at the local restaurants.

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Letter sent to Medeso PD.

*************************************

 

I am a volunteer fireman and have been running both fire and squad for 14+ years in Ohio. I understand your decision to blow up the geocache placed on school property as a prevention measure. I understand that in spite of it being clearly labeled, there is no way for you to have known what was really inside the container and that you needed to take actions to insure that no one was hurt. The person who placed the cache should have asked for permission to place the cache before doing so.

 

I don’t understand why you are going to seek criminal charges against the person who placed the cache however. Have we come this far in losing common sense? It makes me wonder. I also wonder if you stop and blow up every box or bag you find near the school. You don’t know what’s in them. As far as that goes, who’s to say what’s really in the trash can on the sidewalk anyway? Sure it looks like a trash can, and perhaps it is. Then again, perhaps it’s a trash can full of explosives. How can you be sure if you don’t blow it up. Should you blow up the school too? Might be some explosives in there as well.

 

I know I’m exaggerating just a bit but I hope you can see my point. Paranoia can destroy people. It creates many wrongs. Sure we live in a post 9/11 society but I’m also reminded major world powers don’t fall due to outside attacks. They ALWAYS fall due to a meltdown from the inside out. I think that perhaps the terrorist of 9/11 have done far more damage to our country than to have burned down two large buildings. Indeed they set off a chain reaction of fear and panic that has moved all the way from New York to Medesto California. Their destruction of our country’s spirit seems to have been very successful indeed. You’ve allowed them to win in Medesto.

 

I think a reasonable balance is required here. You felt you needed to blow up the cache because you felt it was somehow more of a threat to the students than the trash cans or cars parked outside. Ok, I’ve been on EMS long enough that I’ll trust your instincts on this one. What I really can’t understand however is your desire to turn this into a criminal prosecution and draw the attention of an entire nation to your paranoia.

 

By the way, I’ve been to Medesto. I went there on business and to do some geocaching. I stayed an extra day in your town just so I could hunt some local caches. I spent my money in the Medesto hotel and at the local restaurants.

Jerry...your letter looks great but you've misspelled Modesto. Just wanted to help.

Amy

Link to comment

I appreciate all the support and all. I was far more upset last week than I am now. I do understand why they took the extra precautions... and I do understand that this close to the elections in todays post 9/11 world theya re far more worried about such things. BUT I think they are making much ado about nothing.

 

As per the advice of a lawyer. (also a retired police officer all in one.) I am not going to go forward. Just go on doing what I do and not worry about them. He basically said to ignore it all and just be happy! <_<

Link to comment
I appreciate all the support and all. I was far more upset last week than I am now. I do understand why they took the extra precautions... and I do understand that this close to the elections in todays post 9/11 world theya re far more worried about such things. BUT I think they are making much ado about nothing.

 

As per the advice of a lawyer. (also a retired police officer all in one.) I am not going to go forward. Just go on doing what I do and not worry about them. He basically said to ignore it all and just be happy! <_<

I suppose I should elaborate a little. I am not going to ignore it completely. I will check out to see what regular sized cached I have and where theya re. I am going to wtch how I place new ones. I am NOT however going to go in before they decide that theya re CERTAINLY going to press charges against me. He said to let them just do their job. When theya re ready they will contact me or they may never contact me. They may have already look up enough on the website to realize that it was jsut a family game they were overreacting about.

Link to comment

Good luck Camel, I know it was said before but we will all be praying for you. FOr me that would be one big cloud hanging over my head and I would feel the need to act to get out from under it before it rains. But then again, you have talked to a lawyer and got some good advice, I have a hearing problem when it comes to good advice. <_<

 

Peace!

Link to comment

My email got returned!!!!

 

And quickly too!

 

Following is my response, their response to my first email and then my original which is posted above. Did this make any sense????

 

Thanks for listening (reading)!!! ;)

 

Hello,

First let me thank you for your quick response to my inquiry. I appreciate it very much. The date of the incident was October 29, 2004 and occurred near a school. You are correct that it was reported by a non-geocacher as suspicious and the bomb squad was called out to investigate. Since the incident and since my previous email, I have had time to reflect on who did what and why. The placer of the cache definately had no malicious intent in placing the cache. I know, understand, and know it was right the actions taken by the MPD bomb squad. We as players of this family orientated game realize that sometimes our gamepieces get moved/destroyed/or found by nonplayers. This is part of the fun of the game. I guess we were all shocked when one was "muggled" (our term for being found/destroyed) to this extreme. My real concerns have to do with what the MPD is doing about the placer of this gamepiece. With the rumors that are flying around the website, we as players have a vested concern in what happens to our fellow players. The rumor is that MPD is looking for the placer with the intent of criminal prosecution or financial liability. If this is the case we as a community would like to know the particulars so we can help out our friend with legal and or finacial assistance. Of course knowing the placer and those who play this game, I know there was no malicious intent to hurt harm harrass or terrorize anybody with the placing or hunting of this gamepiece. Please tell me that MPD has discontinued looking for criminality or some form of finacial liability in this case.

 

Thank you again for your time and involvement in this matter

 

Sincerely,

 

Richard Enderlein (aka Wildlifeguy on www.geocaching.com)

renderlein@hotmail.com

 

>From: "Gail Smith" <SmithGC@ModestoPD.com>

>To: <renderlein@hotmail.com>

>Subject: Re: Geocaching and the bomb squad

>Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 09:02:45 -0800

>

>I am not familiar with the case to which you are referring. When was

>this supposed to have happened? I would assume, based strictly on what

>I read at geocaching.com that the cache may have been suspicious

>looking, found by a citizen perhaps and reported as a suspicous device?

>In this day and age, we can't take any chances with anything that might

>possibly be an explosive device. One of our server installers at

>http://cvc-geocaching.artoo.net/archives/000006.html even mentions

>his concern about someone finding a cache and reporting it to police as

>a bomb or as a drug drop.

>

>If you can give me a date and location of the case, I can look it up

>and let you know what happened. Until then, I am strictly speculating

>on what has happened.

>

>

>

>

> >>> <renderlein@hotmail.com> 10/30/2004 5:57:28 PM >>>

>The following form was entered from the City of Modesto Website

>

>MAIL Submitted From: /Default.asp

>MAIL Submitted ON 10/30/2004 5:57:28 PM

>

>User Name: Richard Enderlein

>Message: Hello,

>I am a resident of Calaveras county and became aware that the other

>day

>the MPD destroyed a gamepiece in the worldwide game of geocacheing. I

>was

>wondering why? Also, from reading the online forums related to the

>game,

>the MPD is searching for the player who placed this geocache with the

>threat of criminal prosecution and or paying for the departments time.

>Again, I must ask Why? What charges could be brought against somebody

>for

>partaking in a legal activity? There are geocaches in over 200

>countries

>worldwide including countries like Iraq. Why are geocaches being

>destroyed

>by MPD when geocaches are surviving in war torn countries.

>

>I come to Modesto quite often for business, shopping, and recreation.

>If

>the loss of freedoms are to occur in your fair city, I am afraid I

>will

>take my money elsewhere and tell all my friends and associates to do

>the

>same. Please return my email and tell me that Modesto is not pursuing

>criminal or financial damages to an honest citizen playing a legal and

>harmless game.

>

>Thank you for your time and consideration in this matter.

>

>Sincerely

>

>Richard Enderlein (aka Wildlifeguy on the geocaching website,

>www.geocaching.com)

>renderlein@hotmail.com

>Reply: Yes

>

>Generated By: webmaster@modestogov.com

>

Link to comment

I just wanted to pipe in and offer my support and sympathy for all the trouble that Camel is going through :lol: I hope things can work out OK in the end, and that cooler heads will prevail.

 

This whole episode has made me pause and look through my caches, however. The only "urban" caches I have out are micros, and I don't feel a necessity to archive any of them yet. All my regular size caches are out on BLM and State Park's land. Hopefully things will cool off, and this is just another "adjustment", like what happened with the unfortunate railroad incident.

 

I noticed that a couple of my new ones waiting for approval are approaching the one week time frame. Looks like the Approvers may be taking a step back and taking a deep breath too ;)

Link to comment

I'm so pleased! As you know I've had a rough time finding things. I tried to find Geobandit's cache the Ripon Multi, and I searched and searched and found something...and emailed him.

 

Turns out Stage 1 was muggled again. so I'm pleased I found the evidence.

 

Sorry Geobandit, you have no idea how much that means to me.

 

Amy

Link to comment
...I would assume, based strictly on what I read at geocaching.com that the cache may have been suspicious looking, found by a citizen perhaps and reported as a suspicous device?...

 

...One of our server installers at http://cvc-geocaching.artoo.net/archives/000006.html even mentions his concern about someone finding a cache and reporting it to police as a bomb or as a drug drop...

That would be one of our own... Jason Roysdon (aka, elmo-fried) even though his referenced web site URL is incomplete. ;) At least we have someone to verify the honesty and integrity of the sport and hopefully Camel as well. Of course, Jason is a self proclaimed Hacker and a Wardriving (not to be confused with 'War'), so who knows where his morals and loyalties lie.

 

He also lurks this thread - FYI. Hi Jason! :lol:

Fixed URL:

http://www.cvc-geocaching.artoo.net/archives/000006.html

 

And he's no stranger to good camo containers. LOL

Edited by Green Achers
Link to comment

I agree Bill. It is getting out of hand. But like Mopar said, I would probably pass on an airport/school cache nowadays, knowing what I know now. I think I'll stick to placing more remote caches for the time being. My newest ones are about a mile back into Ft Ord near Monterey. Probably the worst that can happen to them is they might get picked up by the folks cleaning up the unexploded ordinance back there B)

 

BTW, loved the story on how you got your username. Pretty funny stuff :o

Link to comment

Ok further response to my original email.

 

It is listed below in reverse order. So if you want to read it in the order it was sent start at the bottom. So from the bottom is my original email, their response asking what the heck I'm talking about, my second email, Their clarification of the incident, and finally my last email sent this morning.

 

I hope this all made sense to you as well as the MPD

 

Finally, rumors spread alot faster than the truth!!!!! It wold seem we got a little burned in that wildfire. Camel do you want your broken McToys???? :o

 

Thank you again for your timely response. It is good to hear this information and I will spread it to our community at large.

 

I agree with all of your statements about placing caches near schools and how these containers are marked and hidden. As a relatively new and growing sport we are also learning how to play the game and not be a nuiscence to the communities that we live and play in. Your advice is well taken and we will strive to incorporate them into our game.

 

Again, thank you for your time and efforts in resolving this matter.

 

Sincerely,

 

Richard Enderlein

 

>From: "Gail Smith" <SmithGC@ModestoPD.com>

>To: <renderlein@hotmail.com>

>Subject: Re: Geocaching and the bomb squad

>Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 11:05:42 -0800

>

>Okay, found it. It was actually October 28th. The principal called it

>in. It was a containing wrapped in green duct tape under a tree at an

>elementary school. The bomb squad came out and couldn't tell what was

>in the container so they blasted it. After blasting, the officer found

>several small children's toys inside and a log sheet. That was when he

>realized that the container was part of a GPS treasure hunt. To quote

>the report "No crime committed". We never were looking for the owner of

>the item, other than just to return it. The officer notes "There was no

>contraband inside the container. I was unable to find any indication

>that the container was placed on school grounds illegally or with

>malicious intent." We have never been looking for someone to press

>charges or deliver a bill for services. When we couldn't find an owner,

>we booked the items into our evidence unit to be destroyed. Someone

>made that portion of the story up.

>

>Obviously, an elementary school was probably not the best choice of

>location. And we would rather err on the side of safety than to ignore

>an item wrapped in duct tape and later find out the hard way that it was

>a bomb.

>

>Personally, I would recommend a clear container that law enforcement

>can see into in the event that it is reported like this. The main

>reason this was called in was the fact that it was a colored plastic

>pitcher sealed using green duct tape. Like I said, we'd rather err on

>the side of safety and so would the school.

>

>Make sure that those out there spreading the prosecution story know

>that it is false.

>

>Hope this helps!

>

> >>> "Richard Enderlein" <renderlein@hotmail.com> 11/2/2004 9:33:36 AM

> >>>

>Hello,

>First let me thank you for your quick response to my inquiry. I

>appreciate

>it very much. The date of the incident was October 29, 2004 and

>occurred

>near a school. You are correct that it was reported by a non-geocacher

>as

>suspicious and the bomb squad was called out to investigate. Since the

>

>incident and since my previous email, I have had time to reflect on who

>did

>what and why. The placer of the cache definately had no malicious

>intent in

>placing the cache. I know, understand, and know it was right the

>actions

>taken by the MPD bomb squad. We as players of this family orientated

>game

>realize that sometimes our gamepieces get moved/destroyed/or found by

>nonplayers. This is part of the fun of the game. I guess we were all

>shocked

>when one was "muggled" (our term for being found/destroyed) to this

>extreme.

>My real concerns have to do with what the MPD is doing about the placer

>of

>this gamepiece. With the rumors that are flying around the website, we

>as

>players have a vested concern in what happens to our fellow players.

>The

>rumor is that MPD is looking for the placer with the intent of criminal

>

>prosecution or financial liability. If this is the case we as a

>community

>would like to know the particulars so we can help out our friend with

>legal

>and or finacial assistance. Of course knowing the placer and those who

>play

>this game, I know there was no malicious intent to hurt harm harrass or

>

>terrorize anybody with the placing or hunting of this gamepiece. Please

>tell

>me that MPD has discontinued looking for criminality or some form of

>finacial liability in this case.

>

>Thank you again for your time and involvement in this matter

>

>Sincerely,

>

>Richard Enderlein (aka Wildlifeguy on www.geocaching.com)

>renderlein@hotmail.com

>

> >From: "Gail Smith" <SmithGC@ModestoPD.com>

> >To: <renderlein@hotmail.com>

> >Subject: Re: Geocaching and the bomb squad

> >Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 09:02:45 -0800

> >

> >I am not familiar with the case to which you are referring. When was

> >this supposed to have happened? I would assume, based strictly on

>what

> >I read at geocaching.com that the cache may have been suspicious

> >looking, found by a citizen perhaps and reported as a suspicous

>device?

> >In this day and age, we can't take any chances with anything that

>might

> >possibly be an explosive device. One of our server installers at

> >http://cvc-geocaching.artoo.net/archives/000006.html even mentions

> >his concern about someone finding a cache and reporting it to police

>as

> >a bomb or as a drug drop.

> >

> >If you can give me a date and location of the case, I can look it up

> >and let you know what happened. Until then, I am strictly

>speculating

> >on what has happened.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > >>> <renderlein@hotmail.com> 10/30/2004 5:57:28 PM >>>

> >The following form was entered from the City of Modesto Website

> >

> >MAIL Submitted From: /Default.asp

> >MAIL Submitted ON 10/30/2004 5:57:28 PM

> >

> >User Name: Richard Enderlein

> >Message: Hello,

> >I am a resident of Calaveras county and became aware that the other

> >day

> >the MPD destroyed a gamepiece in the worldwide game of geocacheing. I

> >was

> >wondering why? Also, from reading the online forums related to the

> >game,

> >the MPD is searching for the player who placed this geocache with the

> >threat of criminal prosecution and or paying for the departments

>time.

> >Again, I must ask Why? What charges could be brought against somebody

> >for

> >partaking in a legal activity? There are geocaches in over 200

> >countries

> >worldwide including countries like Iraq. Why are geocaches being

> >destroyed

> >by MPD when geocaches are surviving in war torn countries.

> >

> >I come to Modesto quite often for business, shopping, and recreation.

> >If

> >the loss of freedoms are to occur in your fair city, I am afraid I

> >will

> >take my money elsewhere and tell all my friends and associates to do

> >the

> >same. Please return my email and tell me that Modesto is not pursuing

> >criminal or financial damages to an honest citizen playing a legal

>and

> >harmless game.

> >

> >Thank you for your time and consideration in this matter.

> >

> >Sincerely

> >

> >Richard Enderlein (aka Wildlifeguy on the geocaching website,

> >www.geocaching.com)

> >renderlein@hotmail.com

> >Reply: Yes

> >

> >Generated By: webmaster@modestogov.com

> >

>

>_________________________________________________________________

>Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's

>FREE!

>hthttp://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

>

Link to comment
From: "Gail Smith" <SmithGC@ModestoPD.com>

To: <renderlein@hotmail.com>

Subject: Re: Geocaching and the bomb squad

Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 11:05:42 -0800

 

.....To quote the report "No crime committed". We never were looking for the owner of the item...... We have never been looking for someone to press charges or deliver a bill for services.........

Hurrah for the MPD and wildlifeguy for pursuing this! :oB) I am so impressed with wildlifeguy's calm and diligent work to get the correct information. Just goes to show you that you can't believe everything you read in the newspaper.

 

If Camel HAD been questioned/detained, I was ready to stage a protest march with signs and banners and media coverage, and I know lots of you would have been out there with me. Thanks to wildlifeguy we can all breathe a sigh of relief now, but I'm still archiving some of my larger caches.

 

Laura of Outrageous Fortunes

Link to comment
From: "Gail Smith" <SmithGC@ModestoPD.com>

To: <renderlein@hotmail.com>

Subject: Re: Geocaching and the bomb squad

Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 11:05:42 -0800

 

.....To quote the report "No crime committed".  We never were looking for the owner of the item...... We have never been looking for someone to press charges or deliver a bill for services.........

Hurrah for the MPD and wildlifeguy for pursuing this! :oB) I am so impressed with wildlifeguy's calm and diligent work to get the correct information. Just goes to show you that you can't believe everything you read in the newspaper.

 

If Camel HAD been questioned/detained, I was ready to stage a protest march with signs and banners and media coverage, and I know lots of you would have been out there with me. Thanks to wildlifeguy we can all breathe a sigh of relief now, but I'm still archiving some of my larger caches.

 

Laura of Outrageous Fortunes

First of all Outrageous Fortunes......... I gotta say I jsut noticed that your avatar now admits that youa re a trouble maker!!!! Glad you can admit it... that is half of the battle! :lol::lol:

 

Ont he other note. Thanks WLG for your persistence. There are still conflicting reports... but I have a feeling the report they qouted to you might be the final report because from the lead investigator to the cop friend of mine they said there was charges being filed. However that was the day after the event. So things changed apparantely and they made the right decision and I can stop worrying. Though I had kinda already quit worrying. I do apologize for stirring up so much but hey.... it did prove how quickly we can all unite right?

 

Thanks again to all who suported me during the confusion of it all.

Link to comment
BTW, loved the story on how you got your username. Pretty funny stuff :huh:

No problems. My dismay has always been entertaining. LOL. Just don't ask $ATM$ about that time we were turning the 4x4 around on a trail that was way too extream with bolders. It would just entertain you beyond safe levels and we'd need to have your smile surgically removed. :D:DB)

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