+Big Doggie and Lil Pup Posted January 4, 2003 Share Posted January 4, 2003 Last night I spoke with one of my fellow ham operators and he gave me some rather troubling news. He works at a place that sells gps units and he said he had a guy who works for Marin County Parks (i asked and he said the guy is probably both city and county - but he recalled seeing an Open Spaces patch on the guy's shirt) came in and wanted to buy a bunch of gps units so they could go and remove geocaches as they don't want the land being torn up. So I guess in the future if we start seeing not found caches in the open spaces or parks, we will know why. No time estimate on when they plan to start removing things. Sorry for the bummer news. -Big Doggie Quote Link to comment
+georgeandmary Posted January 4, 2003 Share Posted January 4, 2003 Being a mountainbiker I'm quite used to the goosestepping eco natzis that run the place. george Pedal until your legs cramp up and then pedal some more. Quote Link to comment
+TeamJiffy Posted January 4, 2003 Share Posted January 4, 2003 Boy, this burns me up. What an arrogant attitude the parks group is showing. Was the public consulted? Was there a hearing? And the paved parking lot at the top of Mt. Tam was of course built with minimal impact to the environment... At a certain point in time, I think we may need to consider funding a legal challenge to the view that caches cannot be placed in parks. Sigh. Sigh. Sigh. Quote Link to comment
+Green Achers Posted January 4, 2003 Share Posted January 4, 2003 If the caches are such a problem, then why do they need a GPS to find them? Sounds like they just want to play around with the technology and they came up with a cause. My assumption is there's no LAW against Geocaches there... Is that true? Just wondering. Bill of Green Achers "Why is 'Tourist Season' not mentioned in the Fish and Game Manual?" Quote Link to comment
+Marky Posted January 4, 2003 Share Posted January 4, 2003 My solution is from now on, make the marin caches hella hard. They'll start getting bored with their little game when they start racking up DNFs... --Marky "All of us get lost in the darkness, dreamers learn to steer with a backlit GPSr" Quote Link to comment
+TeamJiffy Posted January 5, 2003 Share Posted January 5, 2003 I say have the folks from the Tri-Valley come and put some Livermore-class caches in the Marin Open spaces. A few plots on a Topo map, derivations of distance and forward azimuths, cryptogram solving, coffe-house searching, and conversions to/from UTM later, well, either the park rangers won't find the cache, or they'll feel so strongly that they've earned it, that they won't touch it as a point of pride. Build a cache which forces them to deal with the exact shape of the WGS-84 ellipsoid... A new bumper sticker comes to mind... "Livermore: Sending cachers packing since 2001"... or "Livermore: It isn't your dad's Geocache"... Quote Link to comment
+fizzymagic Posted January 5, 2003 Share Posted January 5, 2003 quote:Originally posted by TeamJiffy:A new bumper sticker comes to mind... "Livermore: Sending cachers packing since 2001"... or "Livermore: It isn't your dad's Geocache"... I am glad you enjoyed our little caches out here! I feel very fortunate to be a part of such a fun caching community. Quote Link to comment
+Martin_Lu Posted January 5, 2003 Share Posted January 5, 2003 Hi! I'm from Southern California, and for some of the parks around here, we were able to strike a deal with the park rangers. They basically have to 'approve' of a cache before its placed. If you look at this cache page, its describes the rules that the rangers came up with and 'we all' agreed on. Oak Grove Cache... describes the geocaching rules Goodluck! Martin. Quote Link to comment
+Green Achers Posted January 5, 2003 Share Posted January 5, 2003 How about creating Phantom Caches where cachers keep finding them but the Ranges can't. Of course, the phantom ''finds'' would have to be deleted after a while... But just think of the areas you could be sending them. Maybe they'd become the environmental problem, realize it and give up. Again, My assumption is there's no LAW against Geocaches there. Bill of Green Achers "Why is 'Tourist Season' not mentioned in the Fish and Game Manual?" Quote Link to comment
+TeamJiffy Posted January 5, 2003 Share Posted January 5, 2003 ...is that they also really screw the nice new Geocachers who just want to find caches and be left alone & don't read the forums. Quote Link to comment
+Zed Posted January 6, 2003 Share Posted January 6, 2003 That makes me wonder about the ramifications of posting caches in Boulder Colorado and Colorado Springs Colorado where they are banned when no cache actually exists. Is there a 1st amendment right to post a series of numbers like, say, "N40 00.888 W105 16.886" on the Internet? The Supreme Court once found that one's 1st amendment rights do not grant you the right to utter speech that causes harm, like yelling "FIRE" in a crowded movie house but there is nothing wrong with yelling "MOVIE" in a crowded fire house!! Ozzyjazz Geek Quote Link to comment
kablooey Posted January 6, 2003 Share Posted January 6, 2003 Thanks for the warning Big Doggie. My two oldest caches are in Marin County open space land. I don't think I'm going to be in the area for the next month. I hope they survive that long. Maybe I'd be better off changing the coordinates and delisting them for the time being? Comments? -- I'm off in my own little world. That's okay, people know me here. Quote Link to comment
Tahosa and Sons Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 Drive them nuts, put out a Phantom Cache. Requirements are given that the prospective finder must locate you. Then check their profile, see how long they have been caching. Blind Coordinates just to send them on a Wild Goose Chase. Or make several Virtuals and see if they can confiscate the park itself. Tahosa - Dweller of the Mountain Tops. Quote Link to comment
river ranger Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 ... actually CONTACTED Marin Parks (Open Space) to find if this is true? Would be a good start before taking action on removing caches etc... if it is true i like the idea of posting ghost caches, but instead post coordinates to the toilets in their parks, the park directors office, etc, places that will drive them crazy, lol. aaahhhh, GPS terrorism, think the possibilities, lol. R2 having to do what the voices in my GPSr tell me to do... Quote Link to comment
+Luggage & Leather Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 Many areas have been through the "restricted geocaching" rules and regulations. I've been watching the posts since NC State Parks had to make rules (which is where my former ranger status comes from). Now it looks like Arkansas parks have made a rule. The problem is that parks don't understand how the sport works and there are some cachers who may place a cache in areas that they don't want. County/City parks have seemed to be easier to deal with than state parks. Did you know that caches are banned in National Parks? So on the local level you'd do better to walk in and talk to someone and get their support, so then you may not have to deal with all the rules. While Phantom caches sound like a lot of fun, if you iritate these folks, it may just make the restrictions worse. Quote Link to comment
+Big Doggie and Lil Pup Posted January 8, 2003 Author Share Posted January 8, 2003 or that's what I read in a book of quotes No new news on this and I myself wouldn't be approaching anyone until a law is set up. I think most of us geocachers (new and old) know better than to be hiding caches in places where it (the search for the cache) would be so far off trail that it wouldn't harm the plants, ground, etc. etc. It's not like we're talking about The Monkey Wrench Gang here and digging up supply boxes, just some of Mom's harmless Tupperware filled with white-trash and tacky little goodies. In the words of Rodney - Can't we all get along? Better to have a Broken Drum than a broken GPS. See you all around there sometime -Big Dog Quote Link to comment
kablooey Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 I have just disabled two of my Marin County caches after I received a missing report on one of them. I don't think I'll have a chance to check on them until next month. I hope this is all just a bad rumor. -- I'm off in my own little world. That's okay, people know me here. Quote Link to comment
+Lil Devil Posted January 8, 2003 Share Posted January 8, 2003 They can figure out how to go to the geocaching.com website to get the coords to caches, but they can't use the same website to contact the owners of those same caches??? Whasupwidat? Lil Devil Quote Link to comment
+MaxEntropy Posted January 9, 2003 Share Posted January 9, 2003 Assuming that this is true, perhaps I'm very optimistic but it would be very cool if after hunting a few caches, they got into it and flipped to our side. Mickey Max Entropy More than just a name, a lifestyle. Quote Link to comment
+elifish Posted January 15, 2003 Share Posted January 15, 2003 I work in government and I often have to obtain permission to access different properties, and Open Space Districts are often the hardest hurdle to jump. LOTS of paperwork and approvals, so it doesn't surprise me, BUT... I do think we as geocachers should talk to them, or at least open a form of communication, much like the caches in caves discussion that has been going on. Maybe we can find out what they think about geocaching and why. It may not be that they are worried about trampling up the land, it might be with the possible spread of Sudden Oak Death, or something quite valid. elifish Quote Link to comment
+elifish Posted January 15, 2003 Share Posted January 15, 2003 I emailed the generic email on the Marin County Open Space districts website. I asked what the offical stance on geocaches on their property was and asked for a contact name, title and email. Hopefully they will respond and I will post the results here. In the meantime, the website I found is: http://www.co.marin.ca.us/depts/PK/Main/os/ospolicies.cfm the email I used was: parksoscult@co.marin.ca.us I advise anyone interested to do the same. Hopefully we can get to the bottom of this. elifish Quote Link to comment
+Highpointer Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 quote:Originally posted by TeamJiffy: Boy, this burns me up. What an arrogant attitude the parks group is showing. Was the public consulted? Was there a hearing? And the paved parking lot at the top of Mt. Tam was of course built with minimal impact to the environment... At a certain point in time, I think we may need to consider funding a legal challenge to the view that caches cannot be placed in parks. We here in Arizona are suffering from the same problem in National Forest lands. This past weekend, rangers removed caches from the Superstition Mountains of Tonto National Forest, and they are planning to remove more caches as well. I am distressed by the arrogant and abusive actions of power-hungry government officials. You can read more about this by going to Az-Geocaching. Ken Akerman (a.k.a. Highpointer) Tempe, AZ Quote Link to comment
+Canyonherder Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 I would suggest contacting all makers of GPS units to enlist their support in getting these spreading bans lifted. They have a lot to lose if this continues. Goog luck. Al Norris Quote Link to comment
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