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Import Adventure Labs into GSAK using the "Import Adventure Labs" macro


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7 hours ago, igator210 said:

Is that just a mock up? Because I don't have that option... that would be a pretty good feature if we could get it.

 

Oops, sorry about the misunderstanding!


Yes, it is only a mock up to show what one of the potential solutions might look like for those who want to import their Lab Caches found into GSAK using a GPX file.

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I am now retired but as a former IT architect, I have tendency to provide solutions... But here, as a user, I should rather express my needs, not offer solutions. Sorry Groundspeak!

 

According to previous posts, there are two main needs :

  • Have the possibility to download the WP of the Lab Caches of an area in our GPS in order, among other things, to optimize our route plans.
  • Have the possibility to download the WP of our Lab Caches found in order to get the most accurate GSAK statistics possible.

 

The ImportAdventureLabs GSAK macro met these two needs but it is no longer usable since you have deactivated the 2 APIs (Application Programming Interfaces).

 

These needs are real so, like many geocachers, I hope that Groundspeak will provide some solutions soon.

 

Regards!

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It is so sad that it is not possible to get the WP of the labcaches into a GPX-file so it is possible to download them to an GPS. It is very difficult and not userfrindley at all to have to do them on the phone. It is difficult if the labcaches are close as they are in som places. Doing it on the phone takes to much power from the phone. Using my GPS I can change the batteries, if needed. Doing it in other countries I also have problems with using to much data.when using the phone. 

 

I miss having the WP of the labcaches on my GPS so mutch. And I dont understand the reason for stopping this at all. If I only can do labcaches on the phone it will stop me from finding them.

 

I also can't understand that I do not get the found labcaches down when I get a GPX with my finds. At least you could make it a premium feature.

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1 hour ago, Anne-Mette said:

It is so sad that it is not possible to get the WP of the labcaches into a GPX-file so it is possible to download them to an GPS.

 

This feature is still available. (get the WP of the labcaches into a GPX-file) The problem is about getting more detailed data of these adventures. You can still download, for example, a GPX file of all lab caches near your home and use this in your GPS device.

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Everything could have been so nice... :huh:

An open Live API for everybody and evolving GPX versions containing even 'exotic data' like personal notes, links to images or Adventure Labs.
Obviously, the fear of losing control over their (our!) data seems to be overwhelming. Otherwise, I can't explain, what they are (not) doing.

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On 7/23/2021 at 8:32 AM, Indrebø said:

Groundspeak, please reconsider your decision.

 

API access for GSAK (and other 3rd party applications) will only enhance the Adventure Labs experience.

One of the main issues I have with the official application is that when I am doing one adventure, I have absolutely no idea if I accidentally passes a location for another adventure.

 

This was where GSAK helped me out, gathering information about all the locations in the same way as for multi-caches.

I could then plan my route, but I still had to use the official app to do the adventures.

 

So once again, please reconsider the API access decision.


I absolutely agree with that!!

PLEASE RECONSIDER THE API ACCESS DECISION!!

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On 7/30/2021 at 10:44 AM, Anne-Mette said:

If I only can do labcaches on the phone it will stop me from finding them.

 

 

Even with the previous access, you still had to do the lab caches on your phone. GSAK did not provide a way around that.

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Agree with previous writers.  The questions at each indivudual step of an alc could be seen in gsak. ok. but how many signs on an electric cabinet can you read in google streetview e.g.? If some questions can be sofa-logged by a minority of cachers, so let it be. There are always cheaters one way or the other.

Please reconsider the decision! 

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It seems to be possible to download all data (including answers etc.) for Lab-Caches as an .gpx-file, I just had the experience of someone, who didn't do the Lab-Cache, but got all answers, thus the coordinates for the Bonus-Cache and was the FTF at the bonus. Luckily I knew him, and got it sorted, and now the real FTF will now get the credits for that. I have not deleted his log, as he was at the container , but I think of this bonus caches as something like a challenge: You're only allowed to log, if you have done the lab. If you get the coordinates in any other manner, you're just a cheater.

 

I only cache with my mobile, so I'm not accustomed to Garmin and such, how could it be prevented, that anyone could do the Lab-Cache without crossing the fences? As this should clearly be prevented, or those Lab-Caches are just some tourist information tool, but have absolutely no connection to geocaching.

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1 hour ago, Saenger said:

If you get the coordinates in any other manner, you're just a cheater.

I disagree. 

And on a side note, some cache owners of adventure lab bonus caches intentionally provide an alternate method to determine the final coordinates. So you can solve the puzzle on the cache page or complete the adventure lab. 

 

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12 hours ago, Saenger said:

It seems to be possible to download all data (including answers etc.) for Lab-Caches as an .gpx-file, I just had the experience of someone, who didn't do the Lab-Cache, but got all answers, thus the coordinates for the Bonus-Cache and was the FTF at the bonus. Luckily I knew him, and got it sorted, and now the real FTF will now get the credits for that. I have not deleted his log, as he was at the container , but I think of this bonus caches as something like a challenge: You're only allowed to log, if you have done the lab. If you get the coordinates in any other manner, you're just a cheater.

 

I only cache with my mobile, so I'm not accustomed to Garmin and such, how could it be prevented, that anyone could do the Lab-Cache without crossing the fences? As this should clearly be prevented, or those Lab-Caches are just some tourist information tool, but have absolutely no connection to geocaching.

There was never another way of completing the Adventure Lab other than the intended way with your phone. The GSAK macro simply provided the coordinates of the lab stages. You still had to go to them and do them as intended.

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3 hours ago, C3GPS said:

There was never another way of completing the Adventure Lab other than the intended way with your phone. The GSAK macro simply provided the coordinates of the lab stages. You still had to go to them and do them as intended.

The first one to sign my bonus cache only did the lab cache round ~24h after they found and logged the bonus, because they managed to get all answers, that you can only see after you answered correctly at the 5 waypoints, that included the coordinates, or in my case the 5 numbers needed to create the coordinates, and thus first proclaimed to have been FTF.

 

So it may be, that it was intended to be this way, but there is another way of getting a .gpx-file from the lab cache that includes all this. 

Imho it's fine to open lab caches for other devices but mobiles, but it should definitely be impossible to see the answers before you really have done the task. That's plain cheating.

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12 minutes ago, Saenger said:

The first one to sign my bonus cache only did the lab cache round ~24h after they found and logged the bonus, because they managed to get all answers, that you can only see after you answered correctly at the 5 waypoints, that included the coordinates, or in my case the 5 numbers needed to create the coordinates, and thus first proclaimed to have been FTF.

 

So it may be, that it was intended to be this way, but there is another way of getting a .gpx-file from the lab cache that includes all this. 

Imho it's fine to open lab caches for other devices but mobiles, but it should definitely be impossible to see the answers before you really have done the task. That's plain cheating.

You do not have to be a premium member in order to play adventure labs. What your geocache states is incorrect. 

And you do not need to do anything but have your name on the physical log in order to claim a find on the bonus geocache. 

 

One thing that you may consider, to make it more likely they complete the adventure lab before logging the bonus geocache, is to put the solution in the adventure lab only not on the geocache page. If they can figure out the final coordinates from what you placed on the geocache page I do not consider that cheating. They're using everything available that you gave them. 

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2 hours ago, Max and 99 said:

You do not have to be a premium member in order to play adventure labs. What your geocache states is incorrect. 

And you do not need to do anything but have your name on the physical log in order to claim a find on the bonus geocache.

How do you play a Lab Cache without being a premium member? Last time I looked it up, it was restricted to them, but as I'm a premium member myself, I don't look for this usually. Has that been changed lately?

 

And yes, you physically can do so, and I probably will not control it further on, but I consider it malicious cheating, to gain an advantage through improper venues. I've once logged an Multi, that I found by coincidence, but of course I asked the owner for permission, that's the least you should do if you have any honor in you. And claiming an FTF through cheating is just not OK, to put it mildly without the required expletives.

3 hours ago, Max and 99 said:

One thing that you may consider, to make it more likely they complete the adventure lab before logging the bonus geocache, is to put the solution in the adventure lab only not on the geocache page. If they can figure out the final coordinates from what you placed on the geocache page I do not consider that cheating. They're using everything available that you gave them. 

The solution ist just in the adventure lab only, the numbers to the letters are only available, if you answer the questions correct (or if you cheat with the .gmx). In the bonus is just some letters, and there are more then enough hiding places in the vicinity of the last station. There is no way to guess that.

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1 hour ago, Saenger said:

The solution ist just in the adventure lab only, the numbers to the letters are only available, if you answer the questions correct

 

What I have seen around here is a combination of both, solution of bonus cache by playing the Al, and a solution by solving a riddle in the bonus description.

Not everyone wants to play ALs for various reasons, but this way, they can find and log the bonus cache.  I think this is a fair way to give anyone the chance to log the bonus.

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2 hours ago, Mausebiber said:

 

What I have seen around here is a combination of both, solution of bonus cache by playing the Al, and a solution by solving a riddle in the bonus description.

Not everyone wants to play ALs for various reasons, but this way, they can find and log the bonus cache.  I think this is a fair way to give anyone the chance to log the bonus.

Why? It's just a possibility to add a real logbook for the AL, it's a bonus just for the AL, at least that was my intention. I don't [care] about a clear homezone or such, the lod prerequisite for a bonus is, to have done the caches, where it belongs to. If there is a normal bonus at the end of a normal tradi round, you have to find all those caches first, to get the hints in/at the containers to be able to calculate the bonus coordinates, same here.

Edited by Keystone
potty language edited by moderator
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1 hour ago, Saenger said:

If there is a normal bonus at the end of a normal tradi round, you have to find all those caches first

No you don't. If you don't find all, but figure out the final coordinates and sign the log, you can claim a Find. Even if you don't find any of them but figure out where the final is you can still claim a find if you sign the log. 

 

If you solve a puzzle differently than the CO intended can you still log a find? Yes, if your name is on the log. 

 

I was trying to help you out by suggesting only putting the solution in the Adventure Lab not on the geocache page since you want people to do the Adventure Lab first. 

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Keep in mind that completion logs are not required with AdLabs.  That is, someone may properly visit all the AdLab stages, find and log the Bonus, but never submit an AdLab log.

 

There are many reasons why people might not be comfortable writing their "log in the field,"  and may not post the completion log until later, or completely forget (or decide not) to do so. 

As a consequence, a Bonus CO has no way of knowing, for sure, all who have completed the AdLab.

 

Unfortunately, the current AdLab process makes it really difficult to go back afterwards to post a log, especially if you have just completed multiple AdLabs.  Unlike "normal" caches where you can enter a GC number and go right to the cache's web page to view/enter/or edit logs,  AdLabs involve that you use the app to :

 

1)  First, enter your profile to unhide your completed AdLabs.

 

2)  Scroll across the map and try to find the "pin" for the AdLab(s) you completed.  If, with the growing proliferation of AdLabs, you have already completed a bunch of them in that area, this may take some trial and error.

 

     a.  Of course, you *could* use the "hamburger menu" to get a list of AdLabs---but based on your CURRENT position.  If you traveled to get the AdLab and are no longer in that area, this becomes more difficult.

 

3)  Once found, enter or edit the completion log.

 

4) Go back into your profile to re-hide your completed AdLabs.

 

5)  This, of course, implies that you remembered or noted which particular AdLab you hadn't logged.  Unlike "normal" caches, there is no way (to my knowledge) to get a list of your completed AdLab logs.  (For "normal" caches, your "normal" logs for the last 30 days are readily available under your profile).  It would be nice if, on the list of completed AdLabs under one's profile, one could link to the activity logs.

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Max and 99 said:

If you solve a puzzle differently than the CO intended can you still log a find? Yes, if your name is on the log. 

Simply downloading the answers and doing nothing is not solving differently, it's plain cheating.

2 hours ago, Max and 99 said:

I was trying to help you out by suggesting only putting the solution in the Adventure Lab not on the geocache page since you want people to do the Adventure Lab first. 

No, you were not. As I said, this i impossible. My solution is in the Adventure Lab, and it was retrieved with mischievous manners from there via that .gpx-file. There is nothing to guess on the geocache page. I said this before, I say it again, why don't you listen?

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10 hours ago, Saenger said:

The first one to sign my bonus cache only did the lab cache round ~24h after they found and logged the bonus, because they managed to get all answers, that you can only see after you answered correctly at the 5 waypoints, that included the coordinates, or in my case the 5 numbers needed to create the coordinates, and thus first proclaimed to have been FTF.

 

So it may be, that it was intended to be this way, but there is another way of getting a .gpx-file from the lab cache that includes all this. 

Imho it's fine to open lab caches for other devices but mobiles, but it should definitely be impossible to see the answers before you really have done the task. That's plain cheating.

I'm telling you, the GSAK macro that this entire thread was started about, did not give answers, nor did it provide a way to complete and get credit for a lab stage without a phone. I don't know about other gpx files that you are referencing. Adventures Labs still have to be completed with a phone, as Groundspeak intended, to get credit for the Lab Find.

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This thread is about the API access for Adventure Lab information, and the GSAK macro that utilized this information.  We've strayed a bit into geocaching ethics for what constitutes a "find" vs. what constitutes "cheating."  That subject is best discussed in the Geocaching Topics forum section.  Let's get back on topic.  Thanks!

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3 minutes ago, C3GPS said:

Adventures Labs still have to be completed with a phone, as Groundspeak intended, to get credit for the Lab Find.

Yes, credits for the lab find, but you can get all data, including hints for the bonus, without ever trying to go near the locations. That's what I'm talking about.

Of course you could use this .gpx as well as an input for your Garmin methinks, but I don't know nothing about that, I only use my mobile.

 

Ain't this data you're looking for such .gpx-files? Just restricted to the coordinates? 

Edited by Saenger
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4 minutes ago, Saenger said:

Yes, credits for the lab find, but you can get all data, including hints for the bonus, without ever trying to go near the locations. That's what I'm talking about.

Of course you could use this .gpx as well as an input for your Garmin methinks, but I don't know nothing about that, I only use my mobile.

 

Ain't this data you're looking for such .gpx-files? Just restricted to the coordinates? 

Like I said, I don't know about whatever gpx file you're talking about. The GSAK macro absolutely did not provide answers. Only name, owner, question, stage coordinates and description. I actually could do without the question. I never really used that anyway.

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Once again, let's keep on topic.  Off topic posts may be hidden from view.

 

GPS location "spoofing" applications are the primary means for "finding" Adventure locations without visiting the locations physically.  Answers to the verification questions were not part of the data previously available through the API - and that API is the subject of this thread.

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I also loved this macro, to import ALC to gsak, to be able to see them in Locus Map and also on my Garmin GPSR.

So you will have the stages of the ALC on a useable map and not on that poor map, that is included in the original adventure lab app.

As many others wrote already, it would be enough, to have the coordinates and the name of a ALC stage in GSAK, there is no need, to also get the questions or other information.

For me, it is quite disappointing, that no one from the Groundspeak HQ gives any feedback in this topic since weeks.

So please make it again possible to import the ALC stages into GSAK.

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On 8/6/2021 at 11:49 PM, Keystone said:

GPS location "spoofing" applications are the primary means for "finding" Adventure locations without visiting the locations physically.  Answers to the verification questions were not part of the data previously available through the API - and that API is the subject of this thread.

 

Trying to stop cheating by a minority by upsetting a majority is not very good business practice. GS needs to remember that we pay for premium membership and that membership entitles us to the extra data available.  

 

Instead of addressing the problem - GS has jumped the gun and stopped API access by apps like GSAK, where they should have simply stopped access to the waypoint questions (which by the way - no one needs until they get to the point.

 

There have always been cheats and there always will be cheats - GS will never be able to stop them.

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As I said, I just want this for stats analysis. The macro helped facilitate that. Project-GC already has access to the  Lab Cache data (though I have no clue how much access). It just would be nice to not have to rely on a website to do something we could do ourselves. 

If Groundspeak had a MyFindAdventureLab function, at least this part of the frustration would go away.

Edited by igator210
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On 8/8/2021 at 11:49 PM, Team Red Roo said:

There have always been cheats and there always will be cheats - GS will never be able to stop them.

GS has detailed data on times when the stage of AL was found. It would be quite easy to identify the cheaters who find 5 AL stages (labs) in a few seconds. Or even several AL series in different distanced locations in an unreasonably short time. There was a time the owners had access to these detailed data on their own ALs. So we were able to identify the cheater ourselves (though without any impact). However, access to this data has been cancelled in the end of 2020. So I am not sure if GS is even willing to stop the AL cheaters...

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14 minutes ago, kikonan said:

It would be quite easy to identify the cheaters who find 5 AL stages (labs) in a few seconds.

My husband went to each AL location while I navigated for him with my phone. He looked up each question and answer, and I entered the answers later from home. I personally went to every AL location. Nothing about that is cheating, even though the answers were submitted in quick succession.

 

To keep with the topic: I wouldn't mind if the AL provides the coordinates for me (GPX or not), so I don't have to figure them out myself. I will continue to do so, until they make it easier for me.

Edited by Max and 99
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I admit I have never used a separate GPS device but I have tried to accommodate players who prefer them.

 

My AL covers 10 miles of country roads so I included the GPS coordinates in the location descriptions after reading the complaints in these forums.  I also created a gpx file and included the url in the main description. But due to the limited html abilities of the AL Builder, I cannot make it a live link.

 

The description states:

"If you use a separate GPS device, coordinates are provided in the location descriptions or via GPX file at: https://goldnuggetwebs.com/gpx-cherokee.GPX

Waypoints are titled 'Cherokee Rd AL' "

( https://labs.geocaching.com/goto/cherokee  GPX live link here: https://goldnuggetwebs.com/gpx-cherokee.GPX )

 

Does providing both the coordinates and gpx file seem redundant? Which method would you favor and how could I make it more useful to you?

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I am very disappointed that Groundspeak has decided to discontinue API access to GSAK without any input from players. I have enjoyed the labs that I have done up to this point but this decision has made them alot less appealing. I hope that you reconsider this shortsighted decision.

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On 8/18/2021 at 2:59 PM, G0ldNugget said:

I admit I have never used a separate GPS device but I have tried to accommodate players who prefer them.

 

My AL covers 10 miles of country roads so I included the GPS coordinates in the location descriptions after reading the complaints in these forums.  I also created a gpx file and included the url in the main description. But due to the limited html abilities of the AL Builder, I cannot make it a live link.

 

The description states:

"If you use a separate GPS device, coordinates are provided in the location descriptions or via GPX file at: https://goldnuggetwebs.com/gpx-cherokee.GPX

Waypoints are titled 'Cherokee Rd AL' "

( https://labs.geocaching.com/goto/cherokee  GPX live link here: https://goldnuggetwebs.com/gpx-cherokee.GPX )

 

Does providing both the coordinates and gpx file seem redundant? Which method would you favor and how could I make it more useful to you?

I think it's a great idea to use both. I would appreciate the coordinates but not the gpx file. Obviously a lot of people would use the gpx file, but not everyone. What a great idea!

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Hello.

I m using that macro in GSAK too for the AdventureLabs, and i m very disappouinted about that decision to not open the api more for that.

I m only 1 player more who ask to you at the HQ to reconsider your position. Please!

Thank you for understanding.

We know, you at HQ read that thread, and i hope seeing a official answer (that i hope positive) soon.

Best regards

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I want to add my voice to those GSAK users who wished Groundspeak would give us access to the location of the various stages.

 

I did not search for Adventure Labs until I realized there was a GSAK macro that would let me download the information and integrate into my database.   I use another GSAK macro to determine the optimum path for a series of caches and stages for a day.  Without the location information, this has become much harder.

 

I will probably continue to do Adventure Labs, but I wish Groundspeak had not made it harder to get that information into GSAK.

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Perhaps there are technical solutions to some of the philosophical issues.

 

For the availability of stages, make it dependent on the user and adventure.  For linear adventures, only have the api share the next unfound stage and already found stages.  For any order, share any order. 

 

For the availability of questions, the API could suppress these for anything other than the official app.

 

The station location is much more valuable to me.  For large adventures that span hundreds of miles (Maine Lighthouses), the starting coordinates may not be that helpful after completing a stage or two. The overlapping labs case also is helped. The used of existing navigation, maps, and trip planning tools are quite useful.  

 

Somehow project-gc has managed to find a suitable solution, so why the other API partners are having trouble is a bit frustrating.  

 

 

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11 hours ago, sloth96 said:

 

They are using the API Groundspeak provided for some basic lab cache data that the API partners are using. The old API with more information was locked down to only the Groundspeak AL app. Or they could be using the database they download from HQ since they have special privileges other partners don't have.

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On 10/25/2021 at 7:39 PM, SpiritGuide said:

 

They are using the API Groundspeak provided for some basic lab cache data that the API partners are using. The old API with more information was locked down to only the Groundspeak AL app. Or they could be using the database they download from HQ since they have special privileges other partners don't have.

project-gc's access seem to include access to stages and found status which I didn't think the normal API allowed access to. 

 

The point was more that HQ seems willing to make more information available to partners than is currently shared.  The channel seemed less important to me than the content.

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On 10/24/2021 at 7:47 AM, HHL said:

I doubt that. Do you have a link that proves your statement?

 

I doubt this too. From https://project-gc.com/w/Lab_cache,

 

Quote

Lab caches are in some ways separated from other geocaches. Project-GC have much less information about a user's Lab cache-finds, for example the location of a Lab cache is not known to Project-GC so Lab caches are not included in how many finds a user have per country or other location based statistics.

 

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I haven't visited the forums in a couple of years.  But the lack of obtaining useful information about Adventure Labs that I have found is very frustrating.  So I came here to see what is going on.  I can not find any reference that Groundspeak acknowledges the situation, let alone doing something about it.  AL seem to be the poor step-child of caching, thrown out there perhaps to entice a different group of people to become cachers but without a lot of forethought and even less support now that they are active.  Please GS, so many of your users are stats freaks that need and want to be able to easily access Adventure Labs and the individual lab cache stages into our favorite stats builder.  All we need is the name of the stage and the coordinates.  Support your users or they will go elsewhere.  

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2 hours ago, rogbarn said:

Please GS, so many of your users are stats freaks that need and want to be able to easily access Adventure Labs and the individual lab cache stages into our favorite stats builder.  All we need is the name of the stage and the coordinates.  Support your users or they will go elsewhere.  

 

Even I don't understand what stats you are referring, as the only reward you will get is a daily find count, your suggestion is still reasonable. I have no idea why the name and coordinates of AL stages should be a secret. Many players would use them for planning a geocaching trip.

Edited by arisoft
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