Old caches with multiple 'no finds' going back over long periods.

[Wellsford]

I always check for caches near to areas I am traveling to for vacation or whatever. I often come across some that have not been found for a while.

There is no real issue if it's a one off or couple of recent no-finds and sometimes I get a good response from just alerting the owners (but that is not always so).

But I have identified some caches recently (several in one area) that have had multiple no-finds going back well over a year.  Is there some way I can alert a moderator or volunteer to check and  'clean up' the system if necessary, rather than going to individual owners and alerting them?

[+cerberus1]

How does a cache not found in a year or more (especially after a pandemic), affect anything in this hobby ?  Thanks.   

[+niraD]

2 minutes ago, Wellsford said:

I always check for caches near to areas I am traveling to for vacation or whatever. I often come across some that have not been found for a while.

There is no real issue if it's a one off or couple of recent no-finds and sometimes I get a good response from just alerting the owners (but that is not always so).

But I have identified some caches recently (several in one area) that have had multiple no-finds going back well over a year.  Is there some way I can alert a moderator or volunteer to check and  'clean up' the system if necessary, rather than going to individual owners and alerting them?

See the Help Center article When a cache needs maintenance.

[+cerberus1]

6 minutes ago, Wellsford said:

Is there some way I can alert a moderator or volunteer to check and  'clean up' the system if necessary, rather than going to individual owners and alerting them?

 

Yes.  If you feel a cache simply unfound for a year or more is an issue, after you attempt to find it you can place whatever log fits.  

Our action logs (DNF, NM, NA) let a Reviewer or HQ know what might be going on with a cache.

 

Edited June 27, 2021 by cerberus1

[+niraD]

1 minute ago, cerberus1 said:

How does a cache not found in a year or more (especially after a pandemic), affect anything in this hobby ?  Thanks.   

I think when the OP says "multiple no-finds", that means "multiple DNFs".

 

Of course, that may or may not indicate a potential problem. For an easy PNG, multiple DNFs indicate a likely problem. For a difficult hidden-in-plain-sight camouflage cache, multiple DNFs should be par for the course.

[Keystone]

Eventually, a cache with multiple DNF's will see its Cache Health Scores deteriorate to the point where an email to the cache owner is triggered automatically.  Then, if no action is taken, that cache will come automatically to the attention of the local Community Volunteer Reviewer.  The timing when this happens is dependent upon a number of factors, including the cache's difficulty rating, the number of DNF's/Needs Maintenance logs, and the time since the most recent find.

[Darwin473]

3 hours ago, Keystone said:

...Cache Health Scores deteriorate...

 

With "deliberately difficult" caches that get a lot of DNF's from new or time-short finders, is there any recourse other than multiple Cache Disabled -> CO Maintenance loops? I ask because when I design a cache, I do it with the intention of it being found. But I've been toying with the idea of making one that's harder to find, but before putting in the effort I wanted to check if it was going to require constant monitoring. Due to work I may be away from home for weeks at a time in remote areas without reception, and if a poorly timed NA or Cache Health Score comes up, the time window may lapse prior to me being able to action it or go physically check the cache is still good.

[Keystone]

As stated in my prior post, difficulty rating is taken into account by the Cache Health algorithm.  A few DNF's on a Difficulty 1 cache may trigger a notification to the owner, but not for a Difficulty 4 cache.  If you are receiving too many of these notifications, consider raising the difficulty rating by a half star.

 

If you do receive a cache health score notification, take action and log something on the cache page so that the Reviewer knows you're monitoring your cache.  If you believe a physical check is needed, visit your cache.

[Wellsford]

Thanks all for taking the trouble to help.  Especially NiraD, Keystone and Unit473L.

Now I understand how the system works a bit better and the way the auto flagging thing works with ‘not found’ entries etc., and also the numbers game linked to the difficulty rating of the cache, I can see that whatever happens (or does not) in respect of the owners attention, things should eventually sort themselves out. In essence, I just wanted to know if there was a way of ‘prodding’ the system to speed up the process.

I was a bit put out by the initial response (completely unhelpful) from Cerberus with regards to the reason for my initial ask.  Notwithstanding this, his next entry did seem to at least try and clarify things a bit.  It was nice to see that NiraD seemed to understand what it was I was alluding to right away. So I didn’t feel that I’d been such a chump for asking a daft question.

Regardless of anything else, I don’t want to waste time trying for a cache that is no longer in existence.  Yes, you accept that some quite easy ones can sometimes elude you – not to mention the really difficult ones!   I accept that some caches are placed with the intention of people finding them – and some are not. But when an apparently obvious one goes un found repeatedly, it has to ring alarm bells. You at least expect a smattering of both ‘found’ & ‘not Found’ over a long period of time.  Not to mention (I know it happens) the number of times a cache might be visited and not found, without the ‘not found’ actually being recorded!!!

Like most I guess, I have revisited my own ‘Not founds’ and had luck a second time and visited after one or two ‘not founds’ by others, to find a cache previously missed by earlier visitors.  But I don’t want to waste time travelling to and looking for something that is not current and achievable.

Once again, thanks all for taking the time to enlighten me, I feel happier now just ignoring those caches I feel don’t ‘fit’ and will leave the system to put things right in time.

[+kunarion]

1 hour ago, Wellsford said:

Once again, thanks all for taking the time to enlighten me, I feel happier now just ignoring those caches I feel don’t ‘fit’ and will leave the system to put things right in time.

 

Cachers who don't ignore such caches are essential to putting things right.  I sometimes notice an easy cache that I intended to hunt that now has developed a string of DNFs, and so I go look, just to see what's so hard about it.  Often, there's a problem, but sometimes it's just that people lost the expectation of finding it because of those previous DNFs. 

 

Cachers have requested that I go check my much-DNF'd cache, sometimes as soon as 3 days after I posted an Owner Maintenance log to assure people it's in place.  I understand the notion that DNFs mean the cache is gone, but I wish I wasn't lumped in with the absent Cache Owners.  I keep an eye on my caches.

 

There's a local ammo box cache that I found a few years ago, that has a string of DNFs now, and now a CHS automatic warning that it could be archived.  A couple weeks ago, I returned to retrieve a TB, and found the box still right where it belongs.  Previous cachers assumed it was gone.  The inattentive CO aside, that cache is in place and ready to be found.  And the system is likely to archive it.  Does it need to promptly be "cleaned up"?  Well, yes and no. 

 

 

Edited June 29, 2021 by kunarion

[+cerberus1]

40 minutes ago, kunarion said:

 I sometimes notice an easy cache that I intended to hunt that now has developed a string of DNFs, and so I go look, just to see what's so hard about it.  Often, there's a problem, but sometimes it's just that people lost the expectation of finding it because of those previous DNFs. 

Cachers have requested that I go check my much-DNF'd cache, sometimes as soon as 3 days after I posted an Owner Maintenance log to assure people it's in place.  I understand the notion that DNFs mean the cache is gone, but I wish I wasn't lumped in with the absent Cache Owners.  I keep an eye on my caches.

 

Yep.  A stage in a series we had was one of the simplest to find, and had numerous DNF.  We figured most were from previous logs.

People just weren't reading the hint.  "No need to leave the trail"  somehow had people walking into the woods 30feet.  

There's many reasons caches have numerous DNFs.  One that a lot of people DNF I found within minutes (the other 2/3rds was miffed...).

All those people never noticed that the "ammo can" cache had "other" in size.  It was a micro hidden in a piece of root.

The majority of caches we've found with numerous DNFs had nothing wrong with them. 

I wouldn't base my day for a cache I was really interested in on a DNF from another.