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Guest bunkerdave
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Guest bunkerdave

Dear Utah Geocachers:

 

As much as I hate to do this, I feel the time has come for someone to say something, and it might just as well be me.

 

I have had some discussions lately with a number of cachers, some of who have been in this sport quite a bit longer than I have. I have heard some disappointment expressed in the equity with which the cache content exchanges are taking place.

 

I have visited almost 100 caches, and one thing seems clear: The newer the cache, the better the contents. This is disturbing to me because it shows that those who are finding the cache are either simply taking

items out and not leaving anything, or they are leaving items which are useless to themselves and to anyone who finds the cache.

 

I am not interested in starting a debate as to what is "useless garbage" and what is a thoughtful contribution. I have posted in other threads that the prime objective of all geocachers should be to leave every cache in a better state than that in which you found it. It is obvious to me that this is not the case with many cachers, and you know who you are. Exchanging rocks, candy, and broken items is not fair to the cache owner or to others who will find the cache later. If you are without suitable items for trade, then go get something to trade. Or don't trade.

 

I go to the listing of all the recent cache logs maybe twice a week and go down the list looking at all the finds logged in Utah. I want to see who the new cachers are, and what my friends are up to. I am amazed that some folks have the nerve to actually make some of the exchanges they do, essentially "cleaning out" the cache, and then write about the whole thing on the website. I can only conclude that these people are clueless, which is why I am writing this post.

 

If you are one of the people that is incapable of determining whether you are improving the cache with your exchanges, or you are just selfish, please do the game a favor and don't trade. Most of us are in this game for the hunt alone, but it certainly makes it nice to arrive and see something worth finding, even if all you do is check it out and leave it, because you don't have anything with which to make a fair trade.

 

Some caches are placed with little of value to begin with, and I can empathize. It is not necessary to spend $50 to place a cache, and I am not suggesting that it would even be a good idea. It would be nice, however, if everyone took it upon themselves to make a

charitable donation to each cache they visit. I like Hunt4Elk's "calling cards" of the small metal rifles. They are cheap, (I assume, since he has placed over 60 of them) and everyone knows who they come from. If we

all went to the dollar store and found 15 or 20 items that were somewhat useful to anyone, and kept those handy in our caching packs, it would not take long before the caches were brimming with cheap but useful

trinkets and gadgets that would be a pleasure for all who found the cache. At least it would be better than a can of rocks.

 

There have always been some basic rules to Geocaching:

 

1. If you take something, leave something in its place.

 

2. Write in the logbook.

 

I would suggest that we all begin to abide by two additional rules. These have crossed my mind many times as I have been out hunting, and experience tells me they are important for all of us to bear in mind.

 

1. Leave the cache, the cache site, and the area thereabouts in better condition than it was when you arrived. This includes picking up garbage, not necessarily all of it, but SOMETHING. NEVER leave litter of your own anywhere. If you pack it in, pack it out.

 

2. Be considerate of others. Be mindful of the cache owner's efforts in placing each cache. Respect private property. Try not to reveal the cache location to non-cachers. Minimize your impact on the cache area.

 

I am not the "GeoCaching Police," nor do I aspire to be. I enjoy this activity for many reasons on numerous levels, and want to see it grow and improve. As a participant, I feel a responsibility to contribute to the game by finding and seeking caches, and by helping to improve the game where I can.

 

I realize I will probably offend some of you with this post, and for that I am truly sorry. I feel, however, that in order for the game to continue to attract new participants, and therefore grow and remain exciting for all of us, this is something that needs to be addressed. I welcome your feedback, either in this thread or directly to me at the following e-mail address. Be honest - I can take it.

 

------------------

David Wallentine

dwallent34@yahoo.com

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Guest brownbag

Unfortunately, I suspect that the primary people you are trying to reach will never read this forum.

 

I have to say ditto on everything else you said.

 

It is a sad fact, that in general, people are pigs and dishonest -- especially when others are not watching them.

 

Also, have you noticed that you can go through a log on an older cache and see where, over time, people have left several dollars in change for goodies (like they are purchasing something at a store). Nobody has ever posted that they have taken the money, yet the money is all gone.

 

[This message has been edited by brownbag (edited 04 July 2001).]

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Guest Ron Streeter

gged on the web site. It IS possible that some non-cacher has taken the money and of course not logged at the cache site.

 

I often take the cash I see, but I also log it as having been taken (both at cache site and web site). One cache I went to (Geo-Ca$h) was nothing BUT money. There was a $5 bill and a $1 bill, a bag of pennies (about 200 I think) and a lot of foreign currency. I was the first one at the site and took the $5 bill and left a silver jewelry box. Not totally in keeping with the theme, but close enough. It was real silver and the perfect size for holding a silver dollar.

 

Anyway, I think we all know that people are going to do what they are going to do and no matter what we say, not many of them will change. The value for us saying these things is getting it off our chest and hoping for the best.

 

I also wonder if the explosion of caches in Utah has not contributed to this phenomenon? I seem to remember reading that people are placing them in empty fields outside their office buildings so they can watch the hunt. If this is true, it may be a contributing factor to the "trash" quality of some of the caches.

 

Also, when one finds 100 or so caches, the "trash" factor has to be seen as a logical extension of what you will run into...quality and junk.

 

All of the above is my humble opinion and not handed down on stone tablets.

 

Ron

24H/26/F/1C/4S/3X

 

 

[This message has been edited by Ron Streeter (edited 04 July 2001).]

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Guest bunkerdave

I am relieved that those of you who have thus far posted to this thread have taken this in exactly the spirit in which I intended it taken.

 

Brownbag - I hate to admit it, but I tend to fall on the more cynical side when it comes to society and morality, also. I can only hope that perhaps in Utah, at least, we can do a little better. I have gone to lengths to try not to offend my fellow cachers, but in this matter, I am disgusted with the lack of any sense of integrity of some of the local players. This offends ME, and I jsut had to say something. It will probably make NO difference at all, but it is off my chest.

 

Ron - If I knew the stonecutter's trade, I might very well have engraved these. icon_smile.gif This method ws a little easier to publish, though.

 

I have left money in caches before. Once I really wanted a pin that was in the cache, but it was a micro cache, and the only thing I had of value that would fit was money. The very first cache I visited, I also left money, in addition to some other items. In retrospect, I can see that this is a disservice. Very often the quality of a cache's contents is as much in the quantity as in the quality, to a point. If enough poeple take items, and leave cash, and then someone comes along and take the cash, then in effect they have taken many items, for which they might leave only one. This leaves the cache seriously depleted. It would seem that the only solution to this, since it is impossible to determine which amount of money was for which item, and so forth, is to recommend that cash net be left in the geocaches at all. That would be fine with me.

 

Again, all I want is to see the caches kept well-stocked in perpetuity so that as new cachers try out the sport, upon arriving at their first cache they will be excited at the honesty and generosity of all of us. The other side is that they will find the cache, and upon finding a can of junk, they will think the whole game is a waste of effort and go do something else. Clearly, anyone who will stick with it will ultimately do it for the thrill of the hunt, but parents are much more likely to participate if the kids are excited (case in point: McDonald's Happy Meals) even if the parents are not themselves particularly excited. I though KKBean's DINO-RAMA was a fine example of this. That box is STUFFED with dinosaur toys, and you can bet that every kid with access to a GPS will be bugging his parents to go there.

 

This is not a simple issue, and I have already belabored it beyond the point I intended. Thanks for listening to my "steam release." I do mean what I have said, however I think I have already said too much.

 

Happy Independence Day.

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Guest bunkerdave

I am relieved that those of you who have thus far posted to this thread have taken this in exactly the spirit in which I intended it taken.

 

Brownbag - I hate to admit it, but I tend to fall on the more cynical side when it comes to society and morality, also. I can only hope that perhaps in Utah, at least, we can do a little better. I have gone to lengths to try not to offend my fellow cachers, but in this matter, I am disgusted with the lack of any sense of integrity of some of the local players. This offends ME, and I jsut had to say something. It will probably make NO difference at all, but it is off my chest.

 

Ron - If I knew the stonecutter's trade, I might very well have engraved these. icon_smile.gif This method ws a little easier to publish, though.

 

I have left money in caches before. Once I really wanted a pin that was in the cache, but it was a micro cache, and the only thing I had of value that would fit was money. The very first cache I visited, I also left money, in addition to some other items. In retrospect, I can see that this is a disservice. Very often the quality of a cache's contents is as much in the quantity as in the quality, to a point. If enough poeple take items, and leave cash, and then someone comes along and take the cash, then in effect they have taken many items, for which they might leave only one. This leaves the cache seriously depleted. It would seem that the only solution to this, since it is impossible to determine which amount of money was for which item, and so forth, is to recommend that cash net be left in the geocaches at all. That would be fine with me.

 

Again, all I want is to see the caches kept well-stocked in perpetuity so that as new cachers try out the sport, upon arriving at their first cache they will be excited at the honesty and generosity of all of us. The other side is that they will find the cache, and upon finding a can of junk, they will think the whole game is a waste of effort and go do something else. Clearly, anyone who will stick with it will ultimately do it for the thrill of the hunt, but parents are much more likely to participate if the kids are excited (case in point: McDonald's Happy Meals) even if the parents are not themselves particularly excited. I though KKBean's DINO-RAMA was a fine example of this. That box is STUFFED with dinosaur toys, and you can bet that every kid with access to a GPS will be bugging his parents to go there.

 

This is not a simple issue, and I have already belabored it beyond the point I intended. Thanks for listening to my "steam release." I do mean what I have said, however I think I have already said too much.

 

Happy Independence Day.

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Guest brownbag

Sorry if I started to get things off track with the money issue. I was just trying to say the rarely do people write that they just took all the money. The person who left movie ticket stubs in a cache didn't log it, nor did the person who left a cheap steel fork bent into thirds. They know they are doing something wrong, or it would be logged. I suspect that when a person posts he took a "enter item here" and says he left a "couple small things" (that is an exact quote), it was junk or they would have said what it was.

 

Dave, it was you who convinced me to quit caring about what other people are trading when they cache. As my logs show, I almost never trade anything. My goals in caching do not involve caring about the cache. It just makes me feel bad knowing what children will think when they see some of these expecting to find something fun. I have made a vow to take something worthy for the type of location when I go and leave something new without taking when I find a weak cache.

 

Ron: I am talking about reading every entry in the log book on the disappearing money thing.

 

Dave: As sad as it is to say, It was living in Utah that made me cynical on people. I have rarely had anything but the best experience out of State. I have to leave the State at least a couple times a year to get my moral compass back on track. Living here throws it off all the time.

 

Despite that, I like living here. There are a lot of good people here. There are a lot of other good things about it too.

 

[This message has been edited by brownbag (edited 04 July 2001).]

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Guest Ron Streeter

Brownbag..not sure I understand your last post about "reading every single entry in the log book" in regard to someone taking the money and not commenting on it.

 

I think some people may not want to admit they took the money. I also think (as I stated before) sometimes non-cachers find a cache and take the money (this HAS happened in my area with caches that were not well hidden).

 

In my case I have no problem admitting I took a $1 bill or a $5 bill. If I didn't, someone else would. Whether or not the music CD, toy or whatever I put in its place was worth $5 might be a question mark. This may be where "one man's trash is another man's treasure" comes in.

 

I found a soul-type, funkadelic CD in one cache that I had no interest in, but I put in a couple of small McDonald's toys and took the CD to put in someone else's cache, just to add some variety to the caches I was becoming involved with.

 

I guess there are no end of views on this matter. Once again, just good therapy to air our thoughts.

 

Have a happy 4th you guys...I am waiting for the temp to cool down before doing more caching. It was 108 here on Tuesday in Stockton, CA and about 100 today. Going to fireworks tonight.

 

Ron

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Guest brownbag

quote:
Originally posted by Ron Streeter:

Brownbag..not sure I understand your last post about "reading every single entry in the log book" in regard to someone taking the money and not commenting on it.


 

I was just making a comment on your quote it IS possible that a cache finder has logged in at the cache but then has not logged on the web site

 

Some log books show the original contents. At times I enjoy reading the entries to see if I can follow what disappeared and what showed up and see how close it matches what I see. Rarely does the junk get listed as being added and, in the case of one cache, at least a half dozen showed adding money. None showed removing money. There was no money. I don't want to have cash become the main issue in this conversation, but I wanted to answer your question.

 

Perhaps it's because I've been to newer caches recently, but they've had better stuff in them. For me, the contents of the cache box are like Hitchcock's McGuffin. It's interesting, it's what everything is supposed to be about, but it actually plays no part in the reason I cache.

 

--Rod

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Guest Elwood

Well for what its worth here's my 2 cents on the subject of content exchanges.as a relative newbie to the geocaching thing, i understand completely Bunkerdave's post, and having gone with him on a cache hunt he did school me a bit on cache ettiquite (sp). i have tried to put good prizes in my own cache, the standard size one anyway. The micro cache was placed simply for the location, and not for any tangible reward.

as for my exchanges and logging of things i take and place, i have not allways put an exact detailing of what i put and take on my internet logs nor in the cache site logs, not really seeing the necessity of logging this as long as my trades are what i feel is even, as i do this with my daughter, and she uses some of her personal trading items,(toys/keychains/magnets)i do try to encourage her to make even trades, but as she is young and just beginning to understand fairness in this type of situation i have let her do the trading, and if anyone feels that our trades have not been fair, i do appologise. and i will in the future try to log better what i put and take, as i wasnt aware it was such a big concern. i do try to maintain my duckwalk cache on a daily basis when possible, i dont log that i go there every day but i do, and i have noticed that not all visits to my cach have been logged online nor do i think all have been logged in the logbook either. but i do feel that the folks that have visited my cache have played in the spirit of what i think GEOCACHING is, a good opportunity to spend time with the family going places that you havent been before, and enjoying the lovely planet we live on yet so seldom get to explore. my thanks to everyone that has helped in any way....even by just finding and helping perpetuate our little game. i am having a great time, and my reward doesnt come from in the box, it comes from time spent with, and making new friends, and family. LETS GO FIND ANOTHER ONE!! Elwood

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Guest tslack2000

Concerning "calling cards":

 

I'm pretty sure Hunt4Elk doesn't think that his small metal rifles qualify him to take whatever he wants out of the cache. For him it is just a clever calling card that easily marks that he's been to that cache. So I hope no one intends to bend a paperclip into their initials and call it tradeworthy! I know Dave didn't mean that either when he commented on the rifles in his first post.

 

As for people trading crap for goods, I'm of course against it. That doesn't mean I haven't traded a McDonald's toy for a Wendy's toy. But that's an even trade. When I added some expensive items from Bermuda to my Lock and Key Cache, I made the point of writing a note to all the finders to please keep in mind that the items in this cache cost me a little money and to trade appropriately. I don't think anyone is out of line in reminding people to trade fairly. This topic obviously deserves some attention.

 

On the other hand, I've been to some caches that started out as "junk drawer" caches, in which case it may always be such. I suppose that's the hiders decision...to each his own. There isn't a whole lot that I can do at a cache like that except enjoy the cache for the find (which we all agree is the main reward in this sport) and sign the logbook.

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Guest bunkerdave

Hear, Hear! Tslack makes a very good point: There is nothing wrong with placing a cache of cheap toys or items of little value to anyone. There is ample room for everything in this sport. The issue is that when a cacher places a cache full of goods that he/she took some thought and money and effort to gather and place in the cache, it behooves EVERYONE who wants to trade for those items to respect the intent of the cacher in doing so. The reason you put nice items in a cache is so that people will WANT to visit it. If those nicer item are then replaced by junk, then the cahe is no longer of the quality was originally, and it is as if it was plundered. It is the same reason cachers take the trouble to pick a special location...well, MOST cachers. icon_smile.gif If you arrive at a cache called the Rock Cache, and it is in fact full of rocks, feel free to trade with rocks. I was surprised to see the Beanies cache still actually filled with Beanies when I logged it. When that was listed, I cynically expected all the beanies to be gone in 2 weeks. It is a credit to all who have visited that the theme thereof has been preserved. And credit goes to Cach-U-Nuts for having the faith in the rest of us to place such a well-stocked cache.

 

Okay, now THAT is all I have on this subject.....I HEARD that. icon_biggrin.gif

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Guest bunkerdave

Hear, Hear! Tslack makes a very good point: There is nothing wrong with placing a cache of cheap toys or items of little value to anyone. There is ample room for everything in this sport. The issue is that when a cacher places a cache full of goods that he/she took some thought and money and effort to gather and place in the cache, it behooves EVERYONE who wants to trade for those items to respect the intent of the cacher in doing so. The reason you put nice items in a cache is so that people will WANT to visit it. If those nicer item are then replaced by junk, then the cahe is no longer of the quality was originally, and it is as if it was plundered. It is the same reason cachers take the trouble to pick a special location...well, MOST cachers. icon_smile.gif If you arrive at a cache called the Rock Cache, and it is in fact full of rocks, feel free to trade with rocks. I was surprised to see the Beanies cache still actually filled with Beanies when I logged it. When that was listed, I cynically expected all the beanies to be gone in 2 weeks. It is a credit to all who have visited that the theme thereof has been preserved. And credit goes to Cach-U-Nuts for having the faith in the rest of us to place such a well-stocked cache.

 

Okay, now THAT is all I have on this subject.....I HEARD that. icon_biggrin.gif

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Guest hunt4elk

people are damaging caches without even knowing it is leaving bottles of water in the cache. At my cache I was previously writing about, people were saying all the contents were wet because of a leaky water bottle. Maybe I will add a sticker to the can asking that no liquid filled items be placed in my caches.

 

Hope I'm in line with this post.

 

Kevin

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Guest bunkerdave

Kev -

 

Thank you for your post. I found that one, and took the can of Pepsi. While I appreciated the Pepsi, even warm, I shudder to think of the damage IT would have caused.

 

On the other, much more pressing subject. If there is in fact a vandal with a GPS among us, he or she has easy pickings all over SLC. I have maintained and ever will do so, that there is no SURE way to prevent this. The game depends on the integrity of its players. In time, it is probable that we all will have a cache plundered, and the only thiung we can really hope for is that we will find out about it quickly and either archive or replace the cache. I have had only one experience with this. In May, I went to the First Cache County cache, and it was in total disarray. I found the container, and one of the contents. No log, and nothing else. I had come all that way, and was determined to get a find, so I filled the cache with some of my trading items, put in a new log, and signed that I found it. A few people have found it since then, but it has been awhile, so I wonder how it is doing.

 

Anyway, my point in this story is not to beat my chest or anything, but to illustrate that for this game to remain viable and enjoyable, we have to be "good citizens." Again, not to brag, but more than once I have filled caches with stuff I had to trade, just because the cache contents were either pitiful or non-existent. Usually these were older caches which had been depleted by unequal trading, which is what this thread is all about. I am not wealthy by any definition; most of you probably earn more than I do in a year. It makes a little bit of a dent in my wallet, too, to try and place nice items in a cache. Because of this, I appreciate it even more when I see the generosity shown by the contents of some of your caches. I was at a cache a little while ago that was obviously placed there by a young girl. The penmanship in the log book was a giveaway - not sloppy, but you know how kids write - just looks like they are trying really hard. The contents were about as good as any I had seen in most caches, and it showed a lot of effort and thought went into it. It reminds me a little of the widow's mite parable in the Bible, and it actually touched me. I happened to have a pretty good (I thought) cache in my car ready to go, so I took most of the best stuff, what would fit, as the cache was pretty small. and put it in there. I did take an item, though. icon_smile.gif

 

If any of you have tears in your eyes by now, you know now why I love this game the way I do. It really does have tremendous potential to bring people together. Families, friends, and complete strangers. Hunt4Elk just told me how a number of people have asked to join us on our Zeus's Roost hike, and I could not be more excited. We are so completely removed from other people in our lives. We travel in steel cages at a mile a minute, and never have to see a soul we don't want to see. With all our technology for communication, we never talk to anyone unless we have to. Most people talk to less than 20 people per day for more than a minute.

 

Back to the point: This sport DEPENDS on all of us giving more than we get. If everyone took more from caches than they received, which would also mean no one ever placed a cache, because that is, by its very nature, a donation, how long would this game last? This also reduces the concern over plundered caches greatly, because even if the entire cache is taken, the next person who tries to find it will at least inform the owner, who can take action. At best, the person who finds the plundered/missing cache will have one ready to go, and will just replace it. (This is a lot to ask, but it happens all the time). There are enough of us that one clown looting caches is not going to loot us out of this game. The only way that will happen is if no one places any more. In Utah, we have over 200 caches. It took me over two months of ambitious caching to find half that many. Enough said? It is entirely reasonale to think there will be over 300 here by year end, assuming things REALLY slow down this fall/winter. It is truly a bummer when a cache is raided, but that's all it is. All you can do is dust for fingerprints, call the FBI for a match, "ask Jeeves" for the dirty @#$%'s address and place a flaming "cache" of dog ______ on the perpetrator's porch. Or you could forget about it and get on with your life. Not my place to tell you how to deal with anger. I'm an accountant, not a therapist. (that's my wife, lucky for me)

 

Well, this has been long, but it's been fun...for me at least. With those thoughts, let's all have BIG group hug and sing "Kum-ba-yah."

 

Amen.

 

------------------

David Wallentine

dwallent34@yahoo.com

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Guest bunkerdave

Kev -

 

Thank you for your post. I found that one, and took the can of Pepsi. While I appreciated the Pepsi, even warm, I shudder to think of the damage IT would have caused.

 

On the other, much more pressing subject. If there is in fact a vandal with a GPS among us, he or she has easy pickings all over SLC. I have maintained and ever will do so, that there is no SURE way to prevent this. The game depends on the integrity of its players. In time, it is probable that we all will have a cache plundered, and the only thiung we can really hope for is that we will find out about it quickly and either archive or replace the cache. I have had only one experience with this. In May, I went to the First Cache County cache, and it was in total disarray. I found the container, and one of the contents. No log, and nothing else. I had come all that way, and was determined to get a find, so I filled the cache with some of my trading items, put in a new log, and signed that I found it. A few people have found it since then, but it has been awhile, so I wonder how it is doing.

 

Anyway, my point in this story is not to beat my chest or anything, but to illustrate that for this game to remain viable and enjoyable, we have to be "good citizens." Again, not to brag, but more than once I have filled caches with stuff I had to trade, just because the cache contents were either pitiful or non-existent. Usually these were older caches which had been depleted by unequal trading, which is what this thread is all about. I am not wealthy by any definition; most of you probably earn more than I do in a year. It makes a little bit of a dent in my wallet, too, to try and place nice items in a cache. Because of this, I appreciate it even more when I see the generosity shown by the contents of some of your caches. I was at a cache a little while ago that was obviously placed there by a young girl. The penmanship in the log book was a giveaway - not sloppy, but you know how kids write - just looks like they are trying really hard. The contents were about as good as any I had seen in most caches, and it showed a lot of effort and thought went into it. It reminds me a little of the widow's mite parable in the Bible, and it actually touched me. I happened to have a pretty good (I thought) cache in my car ready to go, so I took most of the best stuff, what would fit, as the cache was pretty small. and put it in there. I did take an item, though. icon_smile.gif

 

If any of you have tears in your eyes by now, you know now why I love this game the way I do. It really does have tremendous potential to bring people together. Families, friends, and complete strangers. Hunt4Elk just told me how a number of people have asked to join us on our Zeus's Roost hike, and I could not be more excited. We are so completely removed from other people in our lives. We travel in steel cages at a mile a minute, and never have to see a soul we don't want to see. With all our technology for communication, we never talk to anyone unless we have to. Most people talk to less than 20 people per day for more than a minute.

 

Back to the point: This sport DEPENDS on all of us giving more than we get. If everyone took more from caches than they received, which would also mean no one ever placed a cache, because that is, by its very nature, a donation, how long would this game last? This also reduces the concern over plundered caches greatly, because even if the entire cache is taken, the next person who tries to find it will at least inform the owner, who can take action. At best, the person who finds the plundered/missing cache will have one ready to go, and will just replace it. (This is a lot to ask, but it happens all the time). There are enough of us that one clown looting caches is not going to loot us out of this game. The only way that will happen is if no one places any more. In Utah, we have over 200 caches. It took me over two months of ambitious caching to find half that many. Enough said? It is entirely reasonale to think there will be over 300 here by year end, assuming things REALLY slow down this fall/winter. It is truly a bummer when a cache is raided, but that's all it is. All you can do is dust for fingerprints, call the FBI for a match, "ask Jeeves" for the dirty @#$%'s address and place a flaming "cache" of dog ______ on the perpetrator's porch. Or you could forget about it and get on with your life. Not my place to tell you how to deal with anger. I'm an accountant, not a therapist. (that's my wife, lucky for me)

 

Well, this has been long, but it's been fun...for me at least. With those thoughts, let's all have BIG group hug and sing "Kum-ba-yah."

 

Amen.

 

------------------

David Wallentine

dwallent34@yahoo.com

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Guest leaper64

Just let me say that I agree with most everyone?s comments on this thread. I also agree that the people who need to read this thread will never come to the forums. This leads me to believe that we will never be able to solve this problem. We happen to live in a state in which geocaching is booming and we are bound to have more problems with this than North Dakota which is only sporting 5 stashes. There are a lot of newbies playing the game who will eventually mature and learn proper etiquette. One idea that ran through my head as I was reading this thread was to improve the stashes that you like. In other words, if you enjoyed the adventure of a particular hunt or adored the area, be sure to improve the quality of the stash and add something nice. And likewise, if you thought that the stash you just visited was rather boring, too easy, or bad location, just take nothing and leave nothing (or maybe something minimal).

Now after saying that and reviewing my own stashes, I can honestly say that several of my stashes are deserving of??nada (I?m sure that you will agree). It may be time to voluntarily retire a few from my list. It?s too bad that jeeves can?t answer everything!

 

I think that if the demise of stumpy and Jordan river parkway was due to a raider armed with a gps receiver, we would be seeing many more stashes disappearing. It?s unfortunate that it has happened at all, but it?s just going to happen occasionally. I?m not really worried about a raider yet.

 

And uh??Kum-ba-yah

 

[This message has been edited by leaper64 (edited 10 July 2001).]

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Guest bunkerdave

uch an...interesting time that when I noticed the cache was struggling content-wise, I just re-stocked it. I would certainly not have done that if I had not enjoyed the hunt as much. This is one reason I have decided to alter my hunting method. I may always try to cover the caches in my home county, which is quite do-able at this point, but I would also like to keep tabs on caches that are in locations I really want to visit. Those Uinta Mountain caches interest me a great deal. I will be visiting as many of those as I can get to. I may have a few more "BunkerDave Specials" in me yet.

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Guest leemannn

[i am actually b.e.wilson, using my brothers account since his credentials popped up in the reply box.]

 

I like the idea of having goodies in a cache because of the interest it generates with the kids. The drawback is, of course, the increased plunderability it generates when accidentally found.

 

That's why I like the cachunuts.com idea of keeping track of small, almost worthless objects as a game. After all, who's going to plunder a cache to get a particular-sized nut?

 

Another idea for de-valuing caches would be to adopt the letterboxing idea of personalized stamps, where the object is to get the cache stamp in your log book, and leave your personalized stamp in the cache log.

 

I also like the letterboxing idea of directing someone to a landmark or marker of some kind, one that contains a hint on where the cache really is. That way the cache can be really well hidden to minimize accidental discoveries.

 

Just a few humble ideas.

 

Bruce.

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Guest benevinstanchiano

Ok I have to admit I'm new to this forum thing, but old to Geocaching. I started Geocaching back in February of 2001, when Geocaching was still "small time" in Utah. When I started Geocaching there were a mere 23 caches in the state, and I?m very excited to see that this number has climbed to 253 total caches. This indicates that more and more people are getting involved in the sport we all love. This should be a good thing.

 

My first cache hunt was "Brian's Urban Mini Cache" which consisted of a film canister and a riddle. I was so excited about finding a slip of paper because only a handful of humans even knew that slip of paper existed. For me Geocaching is about finding a human connection through an ammo can, a GPS receiver, and a couple of satellites. I hope everyone feels this way, after all that is what Geocaching is all about.

 

So my suggestion is, instead of being bummed out the next time you get to a cache site and all you find is a bunch a junk, sit back, look around, enjoy the scenery. Know that on this great big rock we call earth you found the very spot that a fellow human was willing to share with you.

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Guest irishcb

I have to agree with a few of the comments here from both sides. I have been the 1st to a cache and found almost nothing in it and was disapointed. And i have been really challanged by a cache that had been raided and left 5 items to reboast. We are in this sport for the excitement of the hunt, and sometime we get caught up in the prize. One man's junk can be another man's treasure.

 

------------------

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Guest bunkerdave

The last two are absolutely true. I, as well as many others, are in this sport for the purest reason: the hunt.

 

My concern is not for the current players who are already too hooked to ever get bored, but for the NEW players who may not have the "bug" who get to a cache and find the junk and figure it is a waste of time.I also think that it is only decent to show appreciation for a cachers effort in placing a decent cache by helping the cache to REMAIN decent and interesting. It may be the contents that piques their interest for the first little while, and it almost certainly is this way for the kids.

 

A little while ago I was closing in on a cache and when I got close enough, I saw a family of two parents and 3 kids sitting there with the cache. They had all the contents laid out and I could see that there were quite a few. I sat on a picnic table and let them do their thing, and when they left I proceeded. When I opened the cache, it had been virtually emptied. I read the logs, and there was no indication that everything had been traded, and more astonishingly, the group I saw had not bothered to log in the cache log. I wonder why? Probably because they are not geocachers. They are thieves. I wanted to chase them down and take back all the loot I saw them walking off with. They had not even left a TOKEN - not even rocks. This is the kind of selfish, inconsiderate creeps to whom I address my comments, and yes, right after I saw this is when I posted this thread. I did not want to say anything then, because I figured the group would read my post and know I was talking about them, but I am to the point I could care less. Now I realize that since they didn't log in the book and they never logged on the web, they probably only use the website to find the caches they are going to plunder. I realize I am ranting, and I am sorry if this offends anyone. IMO, if you are offended, then you are probably guilty of the behavior I am condemning. If you can't play by the rules, DON'T PLAY. Please, just go back to whatever you were doing before, because you are ruining the sport. Let the rest of us have our fun, and our caches.

 

Well, now I have that off my chest. You can all hate me if you like, and I am sure many will. Another great thing about this game is that we never actually HAVE to meet each other if we don't want to. I happen to like everyone I have met, and hope it is mutual. Regardless, I will continue to cache, and I will continue to say what I really think. I will try not to offend people, but if I say something that needs saying, and people get their feelings hurt, then that's tough. This needs saying, because I, for one, put some time, thought, and effort into my caches, so that people will want to visit and make that "human connection" that we all enjoy so much, and it ticks me off to see my hard work, or anyone else's, destroyed because some loser is too cheap to buy their kids a few dollar store toys.

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Guest suntzu

It has been a while since I visited these forums, and it is mostly due to this very thing. I don't geocache anymore. When I started out, I placed 4 or 5 caches and filled them with things that were truly interesting and worth having. They now have golf balls, golf tees, erasers, stickers, McDonalds happy meal toys etc. I filled one cache with olympic pins and instructed the finders not to take olympic pins unless they had one to trade. I had alternate items in the cache, it is not different than the rest, it has been plundered by folks who think that a Mag-Lite and an olympic pin are a good trade for a glowstick. There is no way to make it equitable. IMHO It's an inherent flaw in the game. Many may find it acceptable, but it's just not for me.

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Guest Clanggedin

I am very new to the whole "Geocaching" scene and I can tell you it is very disappointing to go to a cache to only find a bunch of dirty keychains, Mcdonalds toys, and some handi-wipes. I have spent the past few days finding my signature items. I'm also hoping that if I place items of more value in a cache, others will place better items also. Unfortunatly, I am also one of those that has put spare change in the caches. I have only done it on 2 caches that I felt that what I left wasn't as valuable as what I took.

 

Since then, I have decided that no matter where I am at I will always have some items to trade with me, so If I get the urge to geocache I won't have to resort putting in spare change, Mcdonalds toys, or half-melted candy that's been in my car for weeks. We should all try and leave 2 or 3 items everytime we visit a cache, whether we take something or not. That is something I have decided to do, instead of getting mad at a poor cache and not leaving anything.

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Guest bunkerdave

quote:
Originally posted by suntzu:

I don't geocache anymore. When I started out, I placed 4 or 5 caches and filled them with things that were truly interesting and worth having. I filled one cache with olympic pins and instructed the finders not to take olympic pins unless they had one to trade. I had alternate items in the cache, it is not different than the rest, it has been plundered by folks who think that a Mag-Lite and an olympic pin are a good trade for a glowstick. There is no way to make it equitable. IMHO It's an inherent flaw in the game. Many may find it acceptable, but it's just not for me.


 

SunTzu -

 

I understand your frustration. I have had similar experiences with my own caches, albeit to a lesser degree. When I went to the Scratchy Grass cache, I found it literally brimming with olympic pins, and wanted so much to take one, but alas, I had no olympic pins to trade. If you will forgive me for saying so, there is really no point is trading what I perceive to be identical items, i.e., an Olympic pin for another Olympic pin. Indeed, collectors will appreciate the differences between pins, but most of us could care less. I thing this may have been one reason the pins at least disappeared so quickly. Just a thought.

 

As for the game being flawed, I have to agree to a point. Any time the good of a venture depends entirely on the character, generosity, honesty, etc, etc, of the participants, there is high probability that some one or many someones will take advantage of the generosity of the other members of the venture. In my mind, given the anonymity which each of us enjoy as cachers, some more than others, it is amazing that the caches last as long as they do, with anything worth finding. When I read the logs, I take special note of the way an individual trades, because I feel that it is more telling than anything else they might write in the logs or on these forums. A generous, honest person is the kind of person I like to be acquainted with, even if I am never the beneficiary of their generosity. By the same token, there are those among us who see Geocaching as an opportunity to get something for nothing, and they set about doing so. These people make me sick, and they are not welcome at my caches, or at any of the functions I plan for the REAL participants in this sport. They go about taking and not leaving, or they leave their junk, and they seldom, if ever, sign a logbook or log on the website, for obvious reasons. Eventually they will be known as the deadbeats they are, and I for one will have no problem calling them on it. There's my $0.02 on that.

 

I am sorry that you are bitter about the game. I can certainly understand your frustration, and can't blame you for dropping out. I have not actually hidden a cache in some time, and it is mainly because I try to cache in spots that are hard to get to, hard to find, and well worth the trip. This seems to weed out the deadbeats among us fairly well.

 

I appreciate your candor on this subject. I can tell you have a big heart where people are concerned. I hope that we can meet sometime and get better acquainted.

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Guest brownbag

a hair clip that has teeth marks and scratches all over it is nice is beyond me. Why people leave a straw and a plastic spoon from wendy's I'll never know. When I placed it any kid under 10 would have their eyes light up seeing the cache. Now they would have to look hard for anything they would want. yuuck.

 

I just chalk it up to the three maxims I live by when it comes to people.

 

1. Most people are pigs.

2. Never underestimate the stupidity of other people when they are driving.

3. Believe that Karma rules.

 

That said, I have had enough times in my life where I have been the recipient of great trust, generosity, and friendship to know there are enough exceptions to numbers 1 and 2 to make life good. I'm a big believer in Karma (Do unto others), and hope that I've given out at least as much as I receive so that I don't run a negative balance.

 

[This message has been edited by brownbag (edited 28 July 2001).]

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Guest bunkerdave

Re: Brownbag

 

I was truly happy to see that someone found those caches. On that same note, however, you Utah Cachers should be ashamed that an Out-of-stater beat you to them. icon_biggrin.gif I talked to him on the phone for an hour today. These cachers are a wierd bunch...nice though. icon_smile.gif

 

I hope we don't have to wait 2 months on any of the Megacaches. There is too much at stake. Probably some foreigner will win that too. icon_biggrin.gif

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Guest bunkerdave

Re: Brownbag

 

I was truly happy to see that someone found those caches. On that same note, however, you Utah Cachers should be ashamed that an Out-of-stater beat you to them. icon_biggrin.gif I talked to him on the phone for an hour today. These cachers are a wierd bunch...nice though. icon_smile.gif

 

I hope we don't have to wait 2 months on any of the Megacaches. There is too much at stake. Probably some foreigner will win that too. icon_biggrin.gif

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Guest brownbag

Dave:

 

I figure anyone willing to go to SE Utah before September gets my respect and deserves to get the caches first. We're just lucky that the German's don't cache a lot, or everything would be grabbed in a couple days icon_wink.gif

 

--Rod

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Guest brownbag

Dave:

 

I figure anyone willing to go to SE Utah before September gets my respect and deserves to get the caches first. We're just lucky that the German's don't cache a lot, or everything would be grabbed in a couple days icon_wink.gif

 

--Rod

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Guest bunkerdave

I hate to be cynical, but the theme caches, as neat as they are, never really stand a chance, IMO.

 

I see one of two things happening over time:

 

1. Cachers get so embittered by clueless trading in their caches, that they just quit caching altogether. (This would kill the sport)

 

2. Cachers cease putting items of any real value in caches, and the only reward to finding a cache is the logbook. Sounds a lot like letterboxing, which has stood the test of time.

 

Personally, I don't have a problem with there just being a logbook. It would weed the plunderers out of the game, and the only people left would be those who play the game for the sport. If I thought I could place a cache that contained only a logbook and people would come, I would do it. In fact, I think I will try it. Obviously, the locations will need to be better, but that is yet another benefit. It is the only way I know to cure this problem. As long as there is anything of value in caches, there will be thieves to come along and steal it. I am sick of it, and given the length of this thread, I am not alone. mad.gif

 

I have decided to start taping a note to the inside of the lid of my ammo boxes and cans, the wording of which is to this effect:

 

Dear Friends: I am glad you found my cache. You can trade for an item in the cache if you like, but it is not required. If you do trade, please bear in mind that what you leave in this cache is what the next person will find. I have gone to some effort and expense to make this a cache worth hunting for, and would appreciate your help in keeping it that way. If you want to take something nice, then please, leave something nice in its place. I have included items of varying value for just this reason. Please do not leave rocks, sports cards, trading cards, food, candy, or broken items in my cache. I would prefer you just threw them away, because that is what I do with them when I find them in my caches. Hope you had a great time finding this cache, and be sure to sign the logbook. Thanks, BunkerDave

 

[This message has been edited by bunkerdave (edited 28 July 2001).]

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quote:
Originally posted by bunkerdave:

Dear Friends: I am glad you found my cache. You can trade for an item in the cache if you like, but it is not required. If you do trade, please bear in mind that what you leave in this cache is what the next person will find. I have gone to some effort and expense to make this a cache worth hunting for, and would appreciate your help in keeping it that way. If you want to take something nice, then please, leave something nice in its place. I have included items of varying value for just this reason. Please do not leave rocks, sports cards, trading cards, food, candy, or broken items in my cache. I would prefer you just threw them away, because that is what I do with them when I find them in my caches. Hope you had a great time finding this cache, and be sure to sign the logbook. Thanks, BunkerDave


 

I completely agree. When I see food or candy in a cache, I can't help but be amazed that so many people play the game without having ever read the FAQ.

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Guest dan_edwards_1966

First off I want to say I agree so much with some of the stuff being said. I will also add this thought though. I read the FAQ before I went hunting for caches, I thought I new all about the game, but in the excitement of my first few hunts a lot of that info flew out of my brain. It has since started to creep back in as I get more experienced. The second cache that I went to was a fantastic theme cache called the "Cache La Poudre" named after the river that it is near. It had a powder theme that was in perfect sync with the reason the river got its name.

 

Do you think I remembered to bring something with that theme... NO.

 

Now the next themed cache I went to, I brought something that fit the theme well.

 

I just wanted to let you know that some of the mistakes being made are by newbies and they will learn. :-) As the game matures this will become less of a problem.

 

Others are just plunderers, and they will do what they do. Not much we can do to control it at this point.

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Guest bunkerdave

d/explain the exchange etiquette to cachers who find my caches. Perhaps it will help. if only in my caches, but you have to start somewhere.

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Guest Buzbon

I agree with Bunkerdave. We have found trash ie.) aluminum foil candy wrapper formed into a little ball, which the visitors even logged as an item which they were leaving. The most disgusting cache was one we found this weekend at a beautiful site. It had a pair of worn, dirty socks, partially full dirty water bottle and, thank heavens, a clean packaged condom. Unfortunately my daughter was the one to open up this cache and was very disappointed and grossed out.I suspect that the visitors might not have been geocachers. At least I hope not.

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Guest Cobalt

I have only created a few caches thus far, but my most visited cache has definately gone downhill in terms of the exchanges that are taking place. This has really irritated me as it has most sensible people. Well, after thinking on the subject for a while I have decided to create a few log only caches myself. I just read a comment by Bunkerdave on this thread that he plans to do the same and I am glad I am not the only one that thinks that they would still be enjoyable. I found packages of six mini-notebooks in a California 99 cent store recently and figured that they would be great for such caches.

Overall they would be cheaper and not to mention smaller making them easier to hide better and in tighter spots. This would increase the challenge level as well as decreasing the chance of non-cachers finding it. Should a log only cache be found the chance of someone making off with it would be lower as well.

I still see the value of the traditional cache, especially for children and "big kids" and will definately create more. Further comment anyone?

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Guest ChrisGagne

Preventing a bandit with a GPS unit actually seems really easy. All that need be done is require a registration to actually see the Cache locations on the GeoCaching.com website. Then keep a log of what cache locations each member requests. If there is an obvious parallel -- such as: Bob looks at cache 1 location. Cache 1 dissappears. Bob then looks at cache 2, it dissappears. It's true that someone who lived in the same general area might request the same cache data in a similar time frame, but most likely, not in the same order.

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

Chris

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Guest Elwood

Well, bad news folks, my duckwalk cache was apparently inequity plundered thursday or friday sometime, there was a bunch of cheap but nice trinkets for the kiddies and a few other things to make it enjoyable for everyone, but alas when i checked it last night it was empty except for a few small items that the thief, yes it was a thief that took the things and didnt log the cache in the log book or online. so i know it wasnt someone playing fairly, or a newbie that didnt understand, anyway i have pulled the cache until i can restock it today.

i will say for the most part tho that the people who have visited have been good cachers trading fairly and playing in the spirit of the game. and its for that reason i will replenish and replace my cache.

Elwood

P.S.,i also understand that my duckwalk cache is in a very high non geocacher traffic area, so i am amazed that something like this hasnt happened before this. just dont want anyone to think the plundering came as a complete surprise to me, i did expect it and was amazed it hasnt happened sooner.

 

[This message has been edited by Elwood (edited 04 August 2001).]

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Guest Rock Dogs

With a name like Rock Dogs, you can expect a few "rocks" from us. If you look closely, some of those rocks are fairly rare. Maybe even valuable, we haven't had them all checked. yes, we could leave a slip of paper describing the rock, but that is another "hunt" that could be fun. As for the caches turning junky, it is the clueless ones that don't understand the game(sport?) that are obviously doing it. This has become a family game for children and pets. It is for the hunt and the location more so than for the acutal "treasure". Not all of us are rich enough to place high priced items in each cache. Do "WE" the actual players need to police everyone? "We" are trying to do the right thing by exchaning things. Also by enjoying the new and intersting locations that are found. You do realize that the clueless ones are not reading these postings. If they were, the tide would be turning, don't you think?

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Guest wizmedic

e Jorden River cache, an astronut. That I keep right next to my computer to remind me of the fun I had the first time I went out geocaching. Anyways, my point is to leave something equal to what you take out of the cache.......Cheers!

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Guest bunkerdave

I can certainly appreciate that some rocks are more valuable than others. I also realize that most, if not all, of the offenders do not read these posts, and even if they do, they are in denial that they are guilty. "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder," but some things are simply junk, bearing no resemblance to anything of value whatever.

 

I actually traded in one of my first finds for an uncut geode, which I never did get cut, but which I wanted to. I ultimately placed it in one of my own caches, and maybe the next finder got it cut.

 

Also, no one is asking that everyone trade or stock expensive items. Given the recent plunderings, I am hesitant to even place a container with a log in it, but I did place a very tough (and nice, I think) one today. Something to keep in mind: It is not required that a trade be made at each cache. If you lack adequate trade items, don't trade. All I am trying to accomplish here is preserving the quality of cache contents so that when people do find them they have the pleasant experience the cache placer wanted them to have.

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Guest Squad51

I recently chcked up on my Bear Creek Canyon cache and was that a surprise. I check on all of my caches at least every two weeks... During the last two weeks, this cache went from a fully stocked ammo can (.50 cal) to 3 items. Oh, and a partially used book of matches from a surplus place. Videos, cds, games, all gone. The 3 items that were there were duly logged in the book. No one logged that they took everything else and left matches. Gee, at least the loser in question left all the ziploc bags that they took stuff from. Now I just have to wait til I get my brace replaced with a cast then I can hike back to either restock or remove the cache. Hm, I think I'm bitter, lol. Oh well, just had to share... Be safe.

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Guest bunkerdave

With the latest to-do over the BLM's removal of caches, this seems a little less important. emphasize "seems." It is rather clear that the same people who practive such inequity in their trading are most likely the same people who find 30, 40 or 50 caches and never hide even one. Is it too much to ask?

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Guest brownbag

Well I went and restocked my cache. Among other things, my updated text message about the restocking said If you go to a cache with children and their eyes light up when they see the stuff they can trade for, please try to leave it so that the next children will feel the same way.

 

So what was the first trade after restocking? Took a hot wheel and left golf balls I didn't stock the hot wheels, but it was still shrink wrapped. Any bets on the golf balls? I don't know about you, but my kid never had his eyes light up at used golf balls.

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Guest Orion 1

t food left from others...) I like different kinds of pens (not the Office Max ones, but ones from different places). I don't usually carry any used things for trade, for the same reasons as were posted in the threads. As for what my kids find valuable, you can imagine. I still want them (and myself) to remember that just finding the cache is the most important.

 

I still have that pin (and another "shiny" pin found at another cache). My son has kept it in the plastic. I'll soon restock the cache with a few new olypmic pins (including those), olympic charms, etc., as a payment to the sport for the fun that my family and I have had. I have seen those dirty socks, empty candy bar wrappers, etc., that have been left in some caches. I count those as the price we pay for our enjoyment, as I don't think we can really get those to stop. I've had my kids question the used wrappers of whatever and have had to quickly take a few things out of their hands and pack those things out to be thrown out as we probably all have.

 

I'd love to see you return to the game, as I've really enjoyed the places your caches have taken us to. (I moved here from out of state 15 years ago and still haven't seen much of Davis County, not to mention Utah.)

 

I agree with many of the things I've read from BunkerDave, BrownBag, yourself, and others. I'll work harder at making sure I read people's notes they've left to try better at keeping the caches we find in line with the owner's wishes.

 

By the way, I'm sending this to you directly, since I'm not sure that you'll still be reading the geocaching threads, but I'll put this there as well, in case you do. I do hope this sport continues, if only to help me get away from the computer room at work.

 

Good luck, and hope to hear from you soon!

 

Karl.

 

Sorry for the lengthy post and for wasting so much of your time here, but I agree with the above posts and would like to see the game continue.

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Guest Salty Dog

As a new Geocacher, I have to agree with holding up the quality of our caches. My

first cache find showed me both types of cachers.One put a shiny new pocket knife in the cache...... And the other put a useless rusted knife in trade for a much better

item. I traded for the shiny knife, and of course, I tried to leave something of equal value. That knife (i found it at walmart for

under $1)no matter what the value was, was

part of a memorable moment for me when I opened that first cache box and saw that someone cared enough about me to leave such

an item for me to find. I now carry that knife on EVERY hunt I go on.

I now carry a number of items with me, and

try to leave something that seems to be suitable for that cache. When I go shopping, I am always looking for new cool things for caching.

I am now putting together what is to be MY first cache. I have put a lot of thought and care into each item in the cache and I hope that all who find my cache would do the same.

ON TO A NEW THOUGHT...... For my self, I find I want to take on tougher and tougher caches as I get further into caching. I also have been looking for a nice tough spot for my own cache. AND THEN..... I read a message from a new cacher looking for easy caches that he could help his wife (who has a disability) find. Now, being a Thinking and hopefully Caring person, I had to add this thought to my thoughts on Geocaching. Yes, I still want my "tough-ya gotta work for it" cache. But, now I am also planning a second cache for those who wish to participate in our fun little game but are unable physically to

hike to most present caches.

ONE LAST THOUGHT..... Don't forget the kids!

Ya gotta have something in there for the kids to find and trade. They Love this kinda stuff!

PS I am still learning, I no longer put packs of gum as an extra item in the caches icon_smile.gif

------------------

Salty Dog & Hobe Cat

 

[This message has been edited by Salty Dog (edited 18 August 2001).]

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Guest Salty Dog

As a new Geocacher, I have to agree with holding up the quality of our caches. My

first cache find showed me both types of cachers.One put a shiny new pocket knife in the cache...... And the other put a useless rusted knife in trade for a much better

item. I traded for the shiny knife, and of course, I tried to leave something of equal value. That knife (i found it at walmart for

under $1)no matter what the value was, was

part of a memorable moment for me when I opened that first cache box and saw that someone cared enough about me to leave such

an item for me to find. I now carry that knife on EVERY hunt I go on.

I now carry a number of items with me, and

try to leave something that seems to be suitable for that cache. When I go shopping, I am always looking for new cool things for caching.

I am now putting together what is to be MY first cache. I have put a lot of thought and care into each item in the cache and I hope that all who find my cache would do the same.

ON TO A NEW THOUGHT...... For my self, I find I want to take on tougher and tougher caches as I get further into caching. I also have been looking for a nice tough spot for my own cache. AND THEN..... I read a message from a new cacher looking for easy caches that he could help his wife (who has a disability) find. Now, being a Thinking and hopefully Caring person, I had to add this thought to my thoughts on Geocaching. Yes, I still want my "tough-ya gotta work for it" cache. But, now I am also planning a second cache for those who wish to participate in our fun little game but are unable physically to

hike to most present caches.

ONE LAST THOUGHT..... Don't forget the kids!

Ya gotta have something in there for the kids to find and trade. They Love this kinda stuff!

PS I am still learning, I no longer put packs of gum as an extra item in the caches icon_smile.gif

------------------

Salty Dog & Hobe Cat

 

[This message has been edited by Salty Dog (edited 18 August 2001).]

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Guest Ratzilla

quote:
Originally posted by Salty Dog:

AND THEN..... I read a message from a new cacher looking for easy caches that he could help his wife (who has a disability) find. Now, being a Thinking and hopefully Caring person, I had to add this thought to my thoughts on Geocaching. Yes, I still want my "tough-ya gotta work for it" cache. But, now I am also planning a second cache for those who wish to participate in our fun little game but are unable physically to

hike to most present caches.

icon_smile.gif


 

You have no idea how this made me smile. I believe it was our post. Ive been disabled nearly 13 years because someone drank and drove. I found this activity via a news report and thought, wow, this would be great for the family. Alas having not heard many more details I came to read via postings and from going out to cache hunt, Im not able to get to most all of the caches.

I was feeling like great.. one more thing I not able to do and getting tired of being reminded of just that. I thought what can I do to keep hiding stuff but make it functional for non abled folks like myself.

 

Salt

thank you for having the compassion to realise we all like to play and hunt, and hide and seek. Even those less able bodied.

 

As for our first cache. We tried to have many aspects invovled.

There are goodies IN the cache which are mostly for kids, because the VIEW is for the adults along with the camera we provided for them to take a snap shot and we'll post them when the roll is done.

Plus, though its easy to get to by car, if you park at the bottom you are in for a level 5 hike or bike ride to the paved top. We wanted to make it functional but worthwhile.

 

Again, thank you...very much Salt!

 

I'm in agreement with the majority of this thread. just 2 more cents.

 

blessings

Le' FemRat

aka Ratzilla's wife

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by Ratzilla (edited 23 August 2001).]

Link to comment
Guest Ratzilla

quote:
Originally posted by Salty Dog:

AND THEN..... I read a message from a new cacher looking for easy caches that he could help his wife (who has a disability) find. Now, being a Thinking and hopefully Caring person, I had to add this thought to my thoughts on Geocaching. Yes, I still want my "tough-ya gotta work for it" cache. But, now I am also planning a second cache for those who wish to participate in our fun little game but are unable physically to

hike to most present caches.

icon_smile.gif


 

You have no idea how this made me smile. I believe it was our post. Ive been disabled nearly 13 years because someone drank and drove. I found this activity via a news report and thought, wow, this would be great for the family. Alas having not heard many more details I came to read via postings and from going out to cache hunt, Im not able to get to most all of the caches.

I was feeling like great.. one more thing I not able to do and getting tired of being reminded of just that. I thought what can I do to keep hiding stuff but make it functional for non abled folks like myself.

 

Salt

thank you for having the compassion to realise we all like to play and hunt, and hide and seek. Even those less able bodied.

 

As for our first cache. We tried to have many aspects invovled.

There are goodies IN the cache which are mostly for kids, because the VIEW is for the adults along with the camera we provided for them to take a snap shot and we'll post them when the roll is done.

Plus, though its easy to get to by car, if you park at the bottom you are in for a level 5 hike or bike ride to the paved top. We wanted to make it functional but worthwhile.

 

Again, thank you...very much Salt!

 

I'm in agreement with the majority of this thread. just 2 more cents.

 

blessings

Le' FemRat

aka Ratzilla's wife

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by Ratzilla (edited 23 August 2001).]

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Guest bunkerdave

Just received an E-mail from a fellow cacher who visted a few caches recently. He informs me that a particular cache, which started out with a theme, "has dissolved into a bunch of used golf balls and other worthless trash." The cache to which he refers was the third one I ever visited, and at that time, I recall that it was STUFFED with memorabilia and trinkets reflective of its theme. How unfortunate that a trip into history has degenerated, through selfishness and ignorance, into a trip to the junkyard. (No offense, JD icon_wink.gif )

 

This is yet another thing with trading items: When a cacher goes to the trouble to think of a good theme, particularly one that fits the location of the cache, and then gathers numerous items that are appropriate to that theme, it seems to be only fair to take the time and the thought to bring an item that fits the theme.

 

My friend states: "when you read the logs, you realize that some of the people either

have a perverted sense of value or a stunted sense of fair play."

 

I couldn't have said it better myself.

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