Can Basic Members log a Premium cache?

[+CSIDavis]

I have a Premium Membership for my family that we have had for several years and typically go out caching as a family. Now my daughter is old enough that she wants to have her own username and go out caching with her friends. This is great, but I don't want to pay for a second premium membership. This is my question... when we go out caching together will she be limited to signing the log and logging her find on-line for only the basic caches? I know she can physically sign the log for the premium caches, but I'm also hoping that if she puts in the cache ID she will be allowed to log it on-line as well.

 

An additional question would be... what are the "guidelines" for her to be able to go back and log on-line all of the caches we have found together already? I realize the physical log won't have her new username on it, but was thinking she could say something to the affect of "Originally the 'I' in CSIDavis, but now have my own username and was part of this find when the log was signed on mm/dd/yyyy". While she could easily go sign the log for the local ones, there are several not so local ones that she may never get back to. 

 

Thank you for any insight.

[+Max and 99]

16 minutes ago, CSIDavis said:

I have a Premium Membership for my family that we have had for several years and typically go out caching as a family. Now my daughter is old enough that she wants to have her own username and go out caching with her friends. This is great, but I don't want to pay for a second premium membership. This is my question... when we go out caching together will she be limited to signing the log and logging her find on-line for only the basic caches? I know she can physically sign the log for the premium caches, but I'm also hoping that if she puts in the cache ID she will be allowed to log it on-line as well.

 

An additional question would be... what are the "guidelines" for her to be able to go back and log on-line all of the caches we have found together already? I realize the physical log won't have her new username on it, but was thinking she could say something to the affect of "Originally the 'I' in CSIDavis, but now have my own username and was part of this find when the log was signed on mm/dd/yyyy". While she could easily go sign the log for the local ones, there are several not so local ones that she may never get back to. 

 

Thank you for any insight.

Definitely she can log the PM caches. I don't have the link handy but I know someone will come along soon and provide that to you.

 

I do like the sample log you provided. It's important to use the original date, though! This is my opinion. 

 

Found it:

http://www.geocachingadmin.com/

Edited May 10, 2021 by Max and 99
Link

[+CSIDavis]

44 minutes ago, Max and 99 said:

Definitely she can log the PM caches. I don't have the link handy but I know someone will come along soon and provide that to you.

 

I do like the sample log you provided. It's important to use the original date, though! This is my opinion. 

 

Found it:

http://www.geocachingadmin.com/

Thank you!

[+IceColdUK]

56 minutes ago, Max and 99 said:

I do like the sample log you provided. It's important to use the original date, though! This is my opinion. 

+1

 

GSAK is a useful tool for the backlogging...

[+niraD]

1 hour ago, Max and 99 said:

I do like the sample log you provided. It's important to use the original date, though! This is my opinion. 

I've helped friends post backdated logs like this when they finally decided to create an account and log their old finds (from geocaching trips with me). Using the date of the actual find is important, and explaining the situation when you found it with someone else is important.

 

Good job, CSIDavis!

[+E = Mc2]

I do the cache logging for the entire family, so my experience may be different than yours. I just log the cache and then sign in as the other user. I refresh the log page and I can then log the cache for my other family members.

Another method: The PM can copy the "Log Geocache" link from the cache page and send it to the non-PM. The non-PM can then sign in and use that link to log the cache.

That is, provided that the C.O. allows non-PM to log the cache at all. Some don't.

 

Edited May 20, 2021 by E = Mc2

[+niraD]

20 minutes ago, E = Mc2 said:

That is, provided that the C.O. allows non-PM to log the cache at all. Some don't.

Unless the cache is a challenge cache, the guidelines state that it "can be logged online as 'Found' after the geocacher has visited the coordinates and signed the logbook."

 

The CO of a PMO cache cannot require that members have a current premium membership to log the cache as "Found". That would be an Additional Logging Requirement (ALR), and is not allowed.

[+TriciaG]

22 minutes ago, E = Mc2 said:

That is, provided that the C.O. allows non-PM to log the cache at all. Some don't.

 

All cachers can log PMO caches. (PMO refers to the listing being visible or not to non-PM's. A basic member can find a PMO cache with a PM and log it. Groundspeak even maintains the link given above for non-PMs to log a PM cache.)

 

If a CO wants to be a snot about it, you can take it to Appeals. It's best to have a photo of the signature on the log sheet as proof.

[+cerberus1]

2 hours ago, E = Mc2 said:

That is, provided that the C.O. allows non-PM to log the cache at all. Some don't.

 

Like others have said, any member can log a find if they signed the log.  Most do so when with a premium member...

We know of only one CO that successfully removed smileys of basic members who logged, when the member filed a complaint. 

 - That was years ago. 

Also, Groundspeak will give a temp premium membership to folks who ask (and have never been a pm before...). A week.

We know of one who wrote down the coordinates of every pmo cache in the area while they had it.    

To any CO getting a log weeks later, a basic member logged it. 

The cacher could help some, by simply saying in their log that they had a temp pm.     

[+bjåen]

It should be possible to create premium accounts for children under a certaint age under your own premium account. I have 2 children that are very interesting in geocaching, and they have their own account, but only basic. I log caches as described above for them, but I often wish they have an opportunety to at least see and open premium caches too, as long as I have a premium account and they are under 13 year.

[+Max and 99]

7 minutes ago, bjåen said:

It should be possible to create premium accounts for children under a certaint age under your own premium account. I have 2 children that are very interesting in geocaching, and they have their own account, but only basic. I log caches as described above for them, but I often wish they have an opportunety to at least see and open premium caches too, as long as I have a premium account and they are under 13 year.

 This has been discussed before in the forums, and it seemed too easy to game the system. 

[+Lostboy1966]

Not necessarily on topic, but this thread is why I find the forums so interesting. A scenario I never thought of being discussed openly with helpful comments from the community.  Thumbs up!

[richlv]

Looks like the site has changed and the logging from GC admin page does not work anymore.

Manually constructing a link like https://www.geocaching.com/play/geocache/<CACHEID>/log still works.

[+JL_HSTRE]

On 5/20/2021 at 12:54 PM, bjåen said:

It should be possible to create premium accounts for children under a certaint age under your own premium account. I have 2 children that are very interesting in geocaching, and they have their own account, but only basic. I log caches as described above for them, but I often wish they have an opportunety to at least see and open premium caches too, as long as I have a premium account and they are under 13 year.

 

I think it's very questionable (and possibly against the Guidelines?) for anyone under 13 to be geocaching without an adult,  including accessing geocache pages - especially PMO. It's not a safety of the cacher thing; it's a safety of the cache.

[+Hügh]

3 hours ago, JL_HSTRE said:

and possibly against the Guidelines?

 

It's definitely against the Terms of Use:

 

Quote

1.3 Minors

 

... our services are not directed toward anyone under the age of 16. Although individuals under 16 are welcome to geocache, their parents must own and manage their accounts ... if you are under the age of 18 but at least 16, you may only use our services with the consent of a parent ...

 

Now, many probably break this rule unintentionally (...um, my account was definitely 100% managed by my parents until I turned 16...), but it's there.

 

Either way, bjåen's idea sounds like a bad business idea—they want to be able to "attach" children's accounts to their own? And give those accounts access to PMO caches, via the parent's subscription? That sounds exploitable!

[+Max and 99]

5 hours ago, richlv said:

Looks like the site has changed and the logging from GC admin page does not work anymore.

Manually constructing a link like https://www.geocaching.com/play/geocache/<CACHEID>/log still works.

 The admin link works just fine for me. Did you click on [log] after entering the GC code?

[+capoaira]

10 hours ago, JL_HSTRE said:

I think it's very questionable (and possibly against the Guidelines?) for anyone under 13 to be geocaching without an adult,  including accessing geocache pages - especially PMO. It's not a safety of the cacher thing; it's a safety of the cache.

 

 

The the statement that this rule, especially with PMO is to protect the caches assums that all children under 13/16 are up to no good.

 

My experience with more than 100 own caches is that caches have to protected from power-cachers who only interests in stats. That are the people who forgets to close the box right or put them on the wrong place - just because they need the next point.

 

I would recommend @bjåen that he give his children access to his PM in the app. (If you can trust them, that thay don't do anything stupid with it 😅). Then they can log at home from their own accounts. 

Or let your children use an app witch can import gpx files and then import the PMO caches to the app ;-)

 

But I also think that family accounts would be abused by many peoples (same happens also on music or video streaming).

[+JL_HSTRE]

3 hours ago, capoaira said:

The the statement that this rule, especially with PMO is to protect the caches assums that all children under 13/16 are up to no good.

 

Children don't have legal responsibility. They tend to be careless and irresponsible because they are children.

 

That some adults behave no better than children is a separate issue. The bad behavior shown by some adult geocachers is symptomatic of larger problems in society. We have careless, irresponsible, and entitled adults running around. I really doubt someone who can't be bothered to attempt to properly close and replace geocache containers on a regular basis is otherwise a careful, responsible individual in the other facets of their life.

 

How you fix that problem I don't know.

[+capoaira]

2 hours ago, JL_HSTRE said:

I really doubt someone who can't be bothered to attempt to properly close and replace geocache containers on a regular basis is otherwise a careful, responsible individual in the other facets of their life.

Yes, I think in this point your absolutely right. 

 

2 hours ago, JL_HSTRE said:

Children don't have legal responsibility. They tend to be careless and irresponsible because they are children.

I was not. I started caching with an age of 12. Now I'm 20. Of course I started with my father, but I'm sure, that I wouldn't be caching anymore, if I had waited until I'm 16, to go on tour without my parents. 

 

[+cerberus1]

3 hours ago, JL_HSTRE said:

Children don't have legal responsibility. They tend to be careless and irresponsible because they are children.

30 minutes ago, capoaira said:

I started caching with an age of 12. Now I'm 20. Of course I started with my father, but I'm sure, that I wouldn't be caching anymore, if I had waited until I'm 16, to go on tour without my parents. 

 

We know many "children" that cached with their parents and were responsible when with them.

The issue (I feel...) is sometimes those same kids attempt to bring their friends into the hobby without their parents around, and it's those "outsiders" that aren't registered on the site, have little to no knowledge of the hobby, and kids just being kids, that create problems for COs.

[+cerberus1]

14 hours ago, Max and 99 said:

 The admin link works just fine for me. Did you click on [log] after entering the GC code?

 

Yeah... Seems to work okay for me too...

[+niraD]

11 minutes ago, cerberus1 said:

The issue (I feel...) is sometimes those same kids attempt to bring their friends into the hobby without their parents around, and it's those "outsiders" that aren't registered on the site, have little to no knowledge of the hobby, and kids just being kids, that create problems for COs.

This is exactly why I never take kids to the local neighborhood geocaches when I introduce them to geocaching (e.g., with church groups). I either have them search for temporary caches that I myself hid specifically for the geocaching class, or I take them to a park some distance away to go on a geocaching hike there. Even if I trust all the kids in my group completely, I don't trust their friends/schoolmates who might hear about hidden containers in the neighborhood.

[+JL_HSTRE]

4 hours ago, capoaira said:

I was not. I started caching with an age of 12. Now I'm 20. Of course I started with my father, but I'm sure, that I wouldn't be caching anymore, if I had waited until I'm 16, to go on tour without my parents.

 

Caching with your parents or another adult family member is a different matter. Lots of people cache with their kids. In that case the adult is taking the responsibility. 

 

I was a very well-behaved child who actively tried to be mature and responsible. That's why I'm fully in favor of discriminating again children; I know how few of my peers were anything like me.

[richlv]

On 1/15/2023 at 5:23 AM, Max and 99 said:

 The admin link works just fine for me. Did you click on [log] after entering the GC code?

I sure did - it did not work back then. Works for me again now.

Did not record what was the URL it used that failed before, unfortunately cannot compare to what it's using now.