Rant: Maintenance Run/Premium Only

[+Lostboy1966]

I joined GC in 2005. Back then, when the community was booming, placing a 'Premium Only' cache was considered snobbish. In 2010 I retired from the game for several years, but recently started hiding again. I put a lot of effort into my container builds, so at first I started most as Premium. I soon saw that the activity of the game had slowed significantly from what I remembered, so I set all of my hides as standard, non-Premium caches to increase traffic to them.

I did a Maintenance check of a few of my hides today, and was disheartened. One had a camo component missing which could only have been stolen, another was a good distance away from where I hid it, out in the open for all to see.

I'm thinking I should switch all of my hides back to Premium Only in hopes that more experienced Geocachers are less likely to botch things up...

Anyway, rant over.

[+Isonzo Karst]

There was a bar to geocaching back then, which was ownership of a handheld gps.   It wasn't a huge bar, but it was something. 

Now, anyone can cache.

On the one hand, the game is widely available, no pre-selection for geekiness, or love of gadgetry, or outdoorsy; on the other hand, the game is widely available. 

Many wander through.  They don't see a cache hider on the other side of the app; it's  just an app.  

[+frostengel]

PMO or not doesn't matter as much in my opinion.

"Premium" does not mean that those are the better cachers - those are the cachers who pay money for some more features.

 

Sure, some beginners often don't know what to do exactly. Some beginners buy a PM at once, others don't. You can't get rid of them and do you really want to do this? The game needs new players and there are many beginners who know how to handle a cache.

On the other hand those hardcore cachers (who have to make several 1000 finds per year) should know what to do but don't have the time (as the next cache waits!!!). So it might be some really experienced cacher who isn't able to hide the cache as it was or to carefully put the logbook back. And this cacher type is PM almost everytime.

What's with the family who is caching at some summer weekends in the year, doing one or two caches that day? They don't need a PM but they will handle your cache carefully for sure.

 

Those are just examples - but again: PMO doesn't help. What helps more are other cache types: multi and mystery caches. They allure another kind of geocachers than traditional caches do - the better ones.

 

None of my caches is PMO and I don't see a reason to change that. My caches are open for everyone!

[+cerberus1]

Similar to Isonzo Karst, we invested in two GPSrs.  Needed them for hunting, then noticed the geocaching pamphlet that came with them.

A hefty sum, two at a clip, so we learned all about this hobby before we found our first cache (a virtual). 

Just like these days, we were surprised to find many didn't at the time, paying a fee and knowledge of the hobby not the same.  

The couple times I told event owners I didn't have to sign their log book were memorable. 

We were hooked on the hobby, and upgraded with two more handhelds.

A few years later when the hobby got more popular,  we started to have  issues with owners of pmo caches.

 - Anal, micromanaging people wondering what we're doing, just because we clicked on their cache a couple times, mostly.

It got so bad I haven't done a pmo cache since.  

We see a few pmo hides (in search) with red wrenches on them.  That's not basic members doing that...

We're often surprised to find non-cachers well into the woods, at a location it'd seem only we'd be.

 - When the hobby was the "language of location", awesome places similar were shown by members who remembered these locations when they were muggles.   

 

[+barefootjeff]

12 minutes ago, cerberus1 said:

We're often surprised to find non-cachers well into the woods, at a location it'd seem only we'd be.

 - When the hobby was the "language of location", awesome places similar were shown by members who remembered these locations when they were muggles.   

 

 

One of my caches, GC6JMDK, has its final at the end of a steep climb followed by a tough T4 bush-bash through several hundred metres of thick scrub to reach this scenic cliff-top vantage point.

 

 

About 30 metres away from where I hid the cache I came across this:

 

 

and in amongst the embers of the muggle camp fire was the mandatory broken beer bottle.

 

[+kunarion]

2 hours ago, Lostboy1966 said:

I joined GC in 2005. Back then, when the community was booming, placing a 'Premium Only' cache was considered snobbish. In 2010 I retired from the game for several years, but recently started hiding again. I put a lot of effort into my container builds, so at first I started most as Premium. I soon saw that the activity of the game had slowed significantly from what I remembered, so I set all of my hides as standard, non-Premium caches to increase traffic to them.

I did a Maintenance check of a few of my hides today, and was disheartened. One had a camo component missing which could only have been stolen, another was a good distance away from where I hid it, out in the open for all to see.

I'm thinking I should switch all of my hides back to Premium Only in hopes that more experienced Geocachers are less likely to botch things up...

Anyway, rant over.

The 2nd cache I ever hid had a fun camo cover of fake plants.  I checked it after a few finds by veteran cachers, and it looked like the camo had been hit by a weed-whacker.  Almost entirely ripped away.  Around here at least, the cache finding plan is “Scorched Earth”. That was a real eye opener.  Yeah, PMO doesn’t seem to matter, except possibly that causing fewer finds means less maintenance.
 

I design my caches to stand up to abuse.  Some of my ideas never get placed, too delicate for the local finders, plus I don’t want the surrounding area destroyed if I make it a challenge to find.  I think my designs are cool, but around here, some would only be cool for the first finder...

[+niraD]

2 hours ago, Isonzo Karst said:

There was a bar to geocaching back then, which was ownership of a handheld gps.   It wasn't a huge bar, but it was something. 

Technically, you didn't need to own a handheld GPS receiver. But finding a geocache sans GPS requires enough effort that it functions as a barrier to entry too.

 

 

1 hour ago, kunarion said:

Around here at least, the cache finding plan is “Scorched Earth”. 

I remember the first time I arrived at GZ and saw the results of "scorched earth" searches. Having grown up camping and hiking with a "take only photos, leave only footprints" mentality, it was something of a shock.

 

1 hour ago, kunarion said:

I design my caches to stand up to abuse.

I love caches with challenging "hidden in plain sight" camouflage, but they really need to be placed in durable locations that can stand up to repeated searching, even repeated searching by people who value the +1 more than respecting the location.

[+JL_HSTRE]

PMO really stopped meaning much when PM became necessary to fully unlock the official app.

[+Lostboy1966]

I've been sleuthing on my cache that had camo missing (i.e. asking experienced finders if the camo was there when they found it), and have whittled the time of the missing component to a window where some standard, new members made the find. With arthritis I don't hike my containers in as deep when I hide them anymore, but I do put a LOT of effort into building them. Being one who gets enjoyment from hiding rather than hunting, I'd hate to see my Found It count drop, but not so much as I would prefer to see my containers not being damaged. I've toggled them all to PMO for now. I'll report back if anything interesting happens. Thank you, as always, to everyone for their feedback.

[+JohnnyVegas]

that is why i made some of mine premium years ago. i still have tiny camo micro that i replace a few times a year.  it must cost me 50 cents to replace but i am not far from it, 

[+justintim1999]

I must admit having all my caches available to everyone dose increase the amount of maintenance but not enough for me to consider converting them to premium.   

 

My reason for hiding caches is to introduce people to the activity so I anticipate a little extra work. 

 

Reminds me of an old saying.    "To be old and wise, you must first be young and stupid."  

[+GeoElmo6000]

Just remember that for those who only use the app and who aren't premium members, any cache that's not a traditional or event and has a difficulty or terrain greater than a 2 is essentially a premium--only cache, as those aren't unlocked in the app unless one has premium membership.  Non-premium cachers can find all non-premium caches through the website, just not the app.  So having caches available to everyone will limit you to placing caches that are traditionals or events with D2/T2 and lower.

 

Remember that GPS receivers aren't cheap and for people new to the game who haven't yet figured out if they want to really get into it, buying a GPSr up front is a costly investment.  When I started in 2011, I bought an on-clearance Garmin eTrex H for $40 and then found my first caches; if the GPSr had been any pricier I probably wouldn't have started until I got a smartphone years later (and even then the app was $10).  My eTrex broke a few years ago and I started using only the app, but recently I was going to invest in a $100 eTrex 10 (but instead was given a Garmin Montana 780t by a friend who wasn't using it - that was very nice!).

[+GeoElmo6000]

I'm curious about the use of the "funny" upvote in this forum.  I've seen this before where I write a sincere post or reply that I believe to be helpful, and then get notified of a reaction and see a laughing Signal.  Could someone explain the use of the "funny" upvote?  See included screenshot of my previous post.

 

[+thebruce0]

25 minutes ago, GeoElmo6000 said:

I'm curious about the use of the "funny" upvote in this forum.

 

OT but it's an odd reaction. It could be used as an incredulous laugh (are you kidding? haha) or a legitimate humor reaction.  It's odd seeing someone react with a laugh to a serious comment. But whatevs.  At least it's not a "Great Story" reaction on "." 

[+niraD]

5 hours ago, GeoElmo6000 said:

I'm curious about the use of the "funny" upvote in this forum.  I've seen this before where I write a sincere post or reply that I believe to be helpful, and then get notified of a reaction and see a laughing Signal.  Could someone explain the use of the "funny" upvote?  See included screenshot of my previous post.

It means that someone thought the post was "Funny" for some reason, any reason, or even no reason at all.

 

Maybe they misread something in a serious point. Maybe they disagree with something in a serious post to the point that they find the comment funny. Maybe they intended to click the "Surprised" reaction and missed. Maybe they intended to click the "Helpful" reaction and really missed. Maybe they intended to click the "Love" reaction and really, really missed. Maybe something in the serious post reminded them of a really funny "shaggy dog" story that someone told them years ago. Maybe something else...

[+TriciaG]

8 hours ago, GeoElmo6000 said:

Remember that GPS receivers aren't cheap and for people new to the game who haven't yet figured out if they want to really get into it, buying a GPSr up front is a costly investment. 

And some of us won't ever get a GPS receiver. ;)

[+justintim1999]

On 4/5/2021 at 8:06 PM, TriciaG said:

And some of us won't ever get a GPS receiver. ;)

Had a Garmin Oregon 450 that finally died on me.   This weekend will be the first Geocache I've placed using only my phone.   If all goes well I may not replace mine although I think I'm going to miss it.  

[+TeamRabbitRun]

4 hours ago, justintim1999 said:

Had a Garmin Oregon 450 that finally died on me.   This weekend will be the first Geocache I've placed using only my phone.   If all goes well I may not replace mine although I think I'm going to miss it.  

 

Just let your phone sit stationary for a LONG time before noting the coords, and do it a few times at different times to get different satellite constellations, approaching from different directions, then average your several readings. 

GPSr's are typically better at quicker geo-dips than phones.

 

I'm sure you know this; I'm writing for the kids watching.

[+justintim1999]

On 4/8/2021 at 11:43 AM, TeamRabbitRun said:

 

Just let your phone sit stationary for a LONG time before noting the coords, and do it a few times at different times to get different satellite constellations, approaching from different directions, then average your several readings. 

GPSr's are typically better at quicker geo-dips than phones.

 

I'm sure you know this; I'm writing for the kids watching.

Thanks.   Always appreciate information.   Using the Oregon 450, my  coords have always been good.    I used GPS Point for this new one.   Any experience with this app? 

[+BAMBOOZLE]

A long while back I made almost all of mine PMO and found that it helped a lot regarding maint. and TB Hotels getting cleaned out. I also get far less of the annoying  " I can't find it so it isn't here " logs. I'm sure every area is different but its what I've found in mine. It's a different game that in 2003 that's for sure.

Regarding GPS use I MUCH prefer my dedicated units to my phones.

[+TeamRabbitRun]

1 hour ago, justintim1999 said:

Thanks.   Always appreciate information.   Using the Oregon 450, my  coords have always been good.    I used GPS Point for this new one.   Any experience with this app? 

 

No. I like, and use many features in "GPS Status & Toolbox" from MobiWia kft for Android.

 

Lots of toys to explore and play with.

 

Remember, with phone apps it's NEVER the app; it's the underlying capabilities of the phone, its internal antenna, its power state / battery level, how long you let it sit and its calibration.

I calibrate my phone whenever I go out in the field, especially when I've been riding in my car with GPS turned on. Lots of instructions out there about how to do that - check out the 'Figure-8' and the 'Three Axes' methods. I do both. I look like an idiot, but I know exactly where I am.

 

Edited April 9, 2021 by TeamRabbitRun

[+justintim1999]

Thank you.    The cache published yesterday and so far 3 finds today.   It's somewhat of a tricky hide so it sounds like the coords turned out to be fairly close using the GPS point app.   I may still break down and replace my stand alone.