Question about physical logbook

[+DeRBeertjes]

Hello all! I have an idea for hiding a cache. The idea is as follows.

 

1. I hide a cork shooter somewhere, with corks as "ammo", and stickers. 

2. I place a target high up in the tree where they can shoot the cork in. 

3. The cacher sticks the stickers on the top and bottom of the cork. On the top they write their name, on the bottom the date of the cache find. 

4. They shoot the cork in the target / "logbook". 

 

Can the target and the cork shooting be seen as "physical logbook"? Does it has to be a book or is this allowed too? 

 

I would think this would be legal. The "logbook" is physical, both the cork and the target. And you write your name and date as well, on the cork. What do you guys think?

Edited February 26, 2021 by DeRBeertjes

[+Max and 99]

37 minutes ago, DeRBeertjes said:

Hello all! I have an idea for hiding a cache. The idea is as follows.

 

1. I hide a cork shooter somewhere, with corks as "ammo", and stickers. 

2. I place a target high up in the tree where they can shoot the cork in. 

3. The cacher sticks the stickers on the top and bottom of the cork. On the top they write their name, on the bottom the date of the cache find. 

4. They shoot the cork in the target / "logbook". 

 

Can the target and the cork shooting be seen as "physical logbook"? Does it has to be a book or is this allowed too? 

 

I would think this would be legal. The "logbook" is physical, both the cork and the target. And you write your name and date as well, on the cork. What do you guys think?

https://www.geocaching.com/help/index.php?pg=kb.chapter&id=107&pgid=823

[+DeRBeertjes]

2 minutes ago, Max and 99 said:

https://www.geocaching.com/help/index.php?pg=kb.chapter&id=107&pgid=823

I saw. But I am not talking about additional logging. The target IS the logging-book, so you won't be logging any additional things after that. That is why I ask if this is a good logging book. People can also climb the tree if they want, and deposit the cork plus the stickers that way. 

[+IceColdUK]

Sounds fun, but honestly not sure whether it would be permitted.  As you say it doesn’t seem to be an ALR - it is the logging requirement not an additional one; maybe comparable to opening a puzzle box to get to the logbook. But I’m not convinced that it would count as a ‘physical logbook’.  Maybe worth running the idea by your local reviewer...

[+barefootjeff]

In the Guidelines it says:

 

Quote

For all physical caches, there must be a logbook for geocachers to record their visit. The logbook must be

• Physical
• Replaceable
• Easy to sign
• Enclosed within a container

Examples: Notebook, paper scroll.

 

I think you'd have trouble convincing the reviewer that your logbook is enclosed within a container, but as IceColdUK said, it's probably best to ask.

[+DeRBeertjes]

5 minutes ago, IceColdUK said:

Sounds fun, but honestly not sure whether it would be permitted.  As you say it doesn’t seem to be an ALR - it is the logging requirement not an additional one; maybe comparable to opening a puzzle box to get to the logbook. But I’m not convinced that it would count as a ‘physical logbook’.  Maybe worth running the idea by your local reviewer...

Thanks for your comment! I will definitely try and contact my local reviewer. Is there a way to contact my local reviewer before entering my cache for review or not? 

[+DeRBeertjes]

1 minute ago, barefootjeff said:

In the Guidelines it says:

 

 

I think you'd have trouble convincing the reviewer that your logbook is enclosed within a container, but as IceColdUK said, it's probably best to ask.

Thanks! Yes, I will just ask! I have the same question to you. Is there a way of contacting my local reviewer prior to entering my cache in for review? 

[+barefootjeff]

1 minute ago, DeRBeertjes said:

I have the same question to you. Is there a way of contacting my local reviewer prior to entering my cache in for review?

 

Just look at the website cache page of any cache in your area, scroll right to the bottom to the Published log and that will have a link to the publishing reviewer's profile. From there, you can send them an email - note that reviewers can't be contacted through Message Centre.

[+IceColdUK]

3 minutes ago, barefootjeff said:

 

Just look at the website cache page of any cache in your area, scroll right to the bottom to the Published log and that will have a link to the publishing reviewer's profile. From there, you can send them an email - note that reviewers can't be contacted through Message Centre.

Alternatively create a ‘placeholder’ cache page, and submit it.  Make it clear that you’re not ready for the cache to be published, and lay out your plans.

 

If you already know (roughly) where the cache will be hidden, you can also ask the reviewer to do a ‘proximity check’ which will reserve the spot (assuming there are no issues).

[+cerberus1]

4 hours ago, DeRBeertjes said:

Hello all! I have an idea for hiding a cache. The idea is as follows.

1. I hide a cork shooter somewhere, with corks as "ammo", and stickers. 

2. I place a target high up in the tree where they can shoot the cork in. 

3. The cacher sticks the stickers on the top and bottom of the cork. On the top they write their name, on the bottom the date of the cache find. 

4. They shoot the cork in the target / "logbook". 

Can the target and the cork shooting be seen as "physical logbook"? Does it has to be a book or is this allowed too? 

I would think this would be legal. The "logbook" is physical, both the cork and the target. And you write your name and date as well, on the cork. What do you guys think?

 

This sounds like fun, but I'd think maintenance on equipment would be a pain-in-the-can once word got out on this unique thing.  

Someone expects that one's going to use a "pop" gun, and muggles won't notice ?   

Who's picking up all the missed shots ?   I watch people on .22 ranges, and they can't hit squat.  A pop gun, forget it.  

       We hunt while caching, and see issues on hunting grounds by scared sheeple who don't understand we're caching on hunters property.

I imagine someone who doesn't understand why people are "shooting high into a tree"  would be calling the cops.

[+cerberus1]

5 hours ago, DeRBeertjes said:

Hello all! I have an idea for hiding a cache...

Curious, have you presented your "shooting a target high in a tree" idea to the property owner for permission ? 

If me, I'd ask them before I'd ask a Reviewer. 

It could be more "ammo" presented to your Reviewer if it was okay with the landowner.

[+DeRBeertjes]

4 minutes ago, cerberus1 said:

Curious, have you presented your "shooting a target high in a tree" idea to the property owner for permission ? 

If me, I'd ask them before I'd ask a Reviewer. 

It could be more "ammo" presented to your Reviewer if it was okay with the landowner.

Oh, that might be a good idea! Thanks.   But I haven't, yet. I thought, I'd asked the reviewer first, to see if it's ok. 

[+hzoi]

8 hours ago, DeRBeertjes said:

8 hours ago, Max and 99 said:

https://www.geocaching.com/help/index.php?pg=kb.chapter&id=107&pgid=823

I saw. But I am not talking about additional logging.

 

I'd say you are.

 

The two tasks required for logging a physical geocache are: 1. find and open cache, 2. sign log. I suppose you can argue the stickers on a cork are the log, if you like. But shooting the cork into another container is not "logging the cache," it is shooting a cork with stickers on it.

 

Some would find this cache, assume the log was missing, and add a sheet of paper with their name and date and call it a day, and they'd be within their rights to claim a find.

 

If you somehow designed the cache such that hitting a target with a cork opens the cache and reveals the logbook - as in, a no kidding log made out of paper, then you could submit this as a cache with a field puzzle attribute.

Edited February 26, 2021 by hzoi

[+frostengel]

2 hours ago, hzoi said:

The two tasks required for logging a physical geocache are: 1. find and open cache, 2. sign log. I suppose you can argue the stickers on a cork are the log, if you like. But shooting the cork into another container is not "logging the cache," it is shooting a cork with stickers on it.

 

Some would find this cache, assume the log was missing, and add a sheet of paper with their name and date and call it a day, and they'd be within their rights to claim a find.

 

I don't see them logging the cache as the cache itself is high up in the tree and it's like they are logging the stage of a multi cache - that's not a find that's just a piece of paper in the stage. These cachers fulfil neither your points 1 nor 2 as they don't open the cache and they don't sign a log.

 

I like the idea very much and would solve it that way:

 

1) Add a real logbook and a box next to the target in the tree. ONE WAY to claim the find is to reach that logbook and sign it. That's the usual but hard and less fun way.

2) ALLOW the cachers to use your shooting system to get their log into the "logging zone". That's the unusual but easier and more fun way.

Let them choose which way they want to go. :-)

 

I would make this a multicache with the stage at the bottom of the tree and the final in the height.

 

Should be a fun one!

Jochen

[+DeRBeertjes]

1 hour ago, frostengel said:

 

I don't see them logging the cache as the cache itself is high up in the tree and it's like they are logging the stage of a multi cache - that's not a find that's just a piece of paper in the stage. These cachers fulfil neither your points 1 nor 2 as they don't open the cache and they don't sign a log.

 

I like the idea very much and would solve it that way:

 

1) Add a real logbook and a box next to the target in the tree. ONE WAY to claim the find is to reach that logbook and sign it. That's the usual but hard and less fun way.

2) ALLOW the cachers to use your shooting system to get their log into the "logging zone". That's the unusual but easier and more fun way.

Let them choose which way they want to go. :-)

 

I would make this a multicache with the stage at the bottom of the tree and the final in the height.

 

Should be a fun one!

Jochen

Thanks for the tips! I will definitely take this into consideration!  

[+barefootjeff]

One other thing, perhaps I'm not getting a good mental picture of what the target up the tree would be like, but what happens when it rains? What's to stop the stickers on the corks turning into soggy pulp?

[+hzoi]

15 hours ago, frostengel said:

 

I don't see them logging the cache as the cache itself is high up in the tree and it's like they are logging the stage of a multi cache - that's not a find that's just a piece of paper in the stage. These cachers fulfil neither your points 1 nor 2 as they don't open the cache and they don't sign a log.

 

I like the idea very much and would solve it that way:

 

1) Add a real logbook and a box next to the target in the tree. ONE WAY to claim the find is to reach that logbook and sign it. That's the usual but hard and less fun way.

2) ALLOW the cachers to use your shooting system to get their log into the "logging zone". That's the unusual but easier and more fun way.

Let them choose which way they want to go. :-)

 

I would make this a multicache with the stage at the bottom of the tree and the final in the height.

 

Should be a fun one!

Jochen

 

Fair enough. I like your solution.

[geovjw]

Hi 
a question on Paper Logbooks
Can you name me some good sources for buying inexpensive Logbook to write in wet conditions.
Write on the Run, etc. other good quality writable papers that are waterproof etc. etc.

Thanks for hints and tips

Cheers
geovjw  

[+TeamRabbitRun]

12 hours ago, geovjw said:

Hi 
a question on Paper Logbooks
Can you name me some good sources for buying inexpensive Logbook to write in wet conditions.
Write on the Run, etc. other good quality writable papers that are waterproof etc. etc.

Thanks for hints and tips

Cheers
geovjw  

 

You should start a new thread for this. 

Most people will not know you're asking an entirely new question, totally unrelated to what we've been discussing here in this one.

Edited March 13, 2021 by TeamRabbitRun

[+ras_oscar]

Everybody has an opinion. Here's Mine.  The need to either shoot a cork in a target OR climb a tree is IMHO an Additional Logging Requirement ( ALR) I understand and applaud your desire to create a unique and challenging cache. I also understand the frustration of finders at the end of a long hike being unable to log a cache because of an ALR they were not prepared for. I had a cache this week I had to DNF because I was unwilling to climb my 60 yr old bones up a tree. Fortunately, in the several hundred finds I  have made over the years, it is the first one i have encountered. 

[+DARKSIDEDAN]

Sounds like a good idea but also sounds like it would need to be maintained almost daily to keep it working