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dealfarms1

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I have encounter my first cache that makes use of a Chirp Wireless Beacon. I have a Garmin eTtrex 30x. I have turned chirp searching on, when I'm at the posted coordinates, the Garmin does not react in any way, what should I be looking for?  I can't find any guidance on the web.  I'm hoping/asking for help here.  Thanks.

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How long has the CHIRp beacon been there since it was last found?  The beacons are battery-powered and I think the battery lasts a year or so.

 

If it should be working then I recommend using your cell phone instead of the Garmin, as it can give you more information.  On Android I use the ANT+ Dem app.  The ANT protocol used in CHIRP devices is pretty much obsolete these days,  as BLE does most everything it does better.

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2 hours ago, dealfarms1 said:

I have encounter my first cache that makes use of a Chirp Wireless Beacon. I have a Garmin eTtrex 30x. I have turned chirp searching on, when I'm at the posted coordinates, the Garmin does not react in any way, what should I be looking for?  I can't find any guidance on the web.  I'm hoping/asking for help here.  Thanks.

 

You should get an onscreen notice that a Chirp was detected, and data should load.  It’s usually quick but could stall and take 30 seconds or so.  It could also load quickly, then a new waypoint is added automatically and the screen reverts to the previous activity.  That is, it’s possible to acquire the Chirp data without even knowing it happened!


As fizzymagic says, the Chirp battery may have died.  Or the Chirp may have failed.  Is it possible that the Chirp froze this  winter?  
 

You often need to get pretty close to the Chirp.  One of mine had a range of 20 feet, and GPS precision can fall outside that range at times.  The one I used as a cache stage had a range of 80 feet.
 

Install new fresh batteries in your GPS, or be sure to use fully charged batteries.  I added some Chirp help to my cache, as I learned tips to get better signals:

https://coord.info/GC4ZVRP

See if that helps.  Good luck!

 

 

Edited by kunarion
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I've gotten them to work in the past with my Extrex 30. A notification popped up and it downloaded the new waypoint.

 

I can't recall the last time a new one was published. (I have a weekly PQ for new Chirps in my state.)

 

The limited number of devices that could read the signal when they came out limited their popularity.

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When I got my 66st a year or two ago, I ran into a couple chirps that worked. That was cool. Finally I could go collect the chirps in my area I've had to ignore for all these years.

 

Oops. That's when I learned about the various lifetime problems with chirps. None of them still worked by the time I could read them. Now they're all archived.

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On 2/23/2021 at 5:35 PM, Team Geofrog said:

I've never gotten a chirp to work with a Montana. 

 

I got a *FREE!!!* Garmin Montana 680t from a geocacher who wasn't using it anymore, and the first cache I tried was a local chirp cache.  And it didn't pick up anything!  Bummer!  I actually found the cache and signed the log, but I'm waiting to log it as found until I can get the chirp to work (or never, whichever is sooner). 

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3 hours ago, Woodsprout said:

Does anyone know of an app for IOS (Iphone) that can work when an attribute state "wireless receiver required?"

iPhones don't have the ANT hardware required for Chirp so no app will enable them to do Chirps. Having said that the Wireless Beacon attribute can also cover other technologies, such as regular WiFi which iPhones will be able to receive without the need for an app.

 

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On 4/27/2021 at 9:20 AM, GeoElmo6000 said:

 

I got a *FREE!!!* Garmin Montana 680t from a geocacher who wasn't using it anymore, and the first cache I tried was a local chirp cache.  And it didn't pick up anything!  Bummer!  I actually found the cache and signed the log, but I'm waiting to log it as found until I can get the chirp to work (or never, whichever is sooner). 

From Garmin: "chirp has a battery life of up to a year". If I were a CO using one of these, I would schedule a battery replacement about every 6-9 months.

 

From ANT+ Wikipedia Article, the range is: "30 metres at 0 dBm". However, lots of other blogs and reviews list ranges much less, and one blog was saying 5 feet. It operates in the 2.4GHz range, at very low power so there may be lots of interference in that range.

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22 hours ago, MartyBartfast said:
On 6/23/2022 at 1:25 PM, Woodsprout said:

Does anyone know of an app for IOS (Iphone) that can work when an attribute state "wireless receiver required?"

iPhones don't have the ANT hardware required for Chirp so no app will enable them to do Chirps. Having said that the Wireless Beacon attribute can also cover other technologies, such as regular WiFi which iPhones will be able to receive without the need for an app.

 

And, latest iphones do have NFC ability. I recently did a wireless beacon cache requiring NFC and it worked swimmingly. And there is an app for that.

Keep in mind that NFC isn't the same as Chirp or Wifi.

Woodsprout, one would hope that the cache owner will indicate what sort of "wireless beacon" is in use so the cacher can know what to take with.

I've seen caches with the attribute imply even just the use of a radio to tune in to a weak frequency when nearby.  It's a pretty versatile attribute these days.

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Gotta love that NFC (near field communication) tech in most new phones. My samsung A42 works a charm with any chirp app. I use Chirp Wolf but as long as the phone has the tech, most apps will do it.

There really aren't that many wireless beacon caches. I've put one out and plan to do more of different types. Thus far I have a wifi network name one but I want to do a true CHIRP and a radio station one.

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On 6/24/2022 at 3:51 PM, Wet Pancake Touring Club said:

From Garmin: "chirp has a battery life of up to a year". If I were a CO using one of these, I would schedule a battery replacement about every 6-9 months.

 

From ANT+ Wikipedia Article, the range is: "30 metres at 0 dBm". However, lots of other blogs and reviews list ranges much less, and one blog was saying 5 feet. It operates in the 2.4GHz range, at very low power so there may be lots of interference in that range.

 

When the Chirp's range is low, the Chirp finding process is less than ideal... a Garmin has trouble reconnecting when the signal is weak, and you want the strongest signal possible for the variety of phones in use.

 

When I had a Chirp cache set up, I would swap it every 6 months... the whole Chirp with another.  Then I'd dry and clean the original one and prepare it for the next swap.  I never want to give a battery the chance to leak. 

 

Edited by kunarion
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I have found seven caches with the "Wireless beacon" attribute. Three were NFC, two WiFi and two Chirp. Both the Chirp ones were published in 2011 and both had alternative ways to find them, otherwise I would not have been able to. I think Chirp is dead as the dodo by now. Actually, the attribute seems to have been renamed to "Wireless receiver required".

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On 8/12/2022 at 6:45 PM, ChriBli said:

I have found seven caches with the "Wireless beacon" attribute. Three were NFC, two WiFi and two Chirp. Both the Chirp ones were published in 2011 and both had alternative ways to find them, otherwise I would not have been able to. I think Chirp is dead as the dodo by now. Actually, the attribute seems to have been renamed to "Wireless receiver required".

 

Nope.

There are several around here, and I have a CHIRP beacon sitting here, waiting for me to figure out what I can creatively do with it. Hopefully, it'll end up being a fun puzzle, not simply a wireless reveal of 'next' coords.

 

You no longer NEED a Garmin GPS to find them; all you need is a phone with ANT tech built in and Wolffire's CHIRP WOLF app (on Android, anyway - don't know about IOS). 

 

It's certainly waned in popularity, and I got the ONLY one for sale (new, in package!) on eBay last year, but the dodo is certainly deader.

 

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I have a friend that carries a chirp around in his pocket at events, and if you get the chirp to pick up, and find them with the message displayed, they will give you a special prize…. I’m thinking about starting to do this too… 
 

seperately, from time to time you can find chirps on eBay…. The last ones I saw were out of Canada… I just bought some… 

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8 minutes ago, iatsemedic said:

I have a friend that carries a chirp around in his pocket at events, and if you get the chirp to pick up, and find them with the message displayed, they will give you a special prize…. I’m thinking about starting to do this too… 
 

seperately, from time to time you can find chirps on eBay…. The last ones I saw were out of Canada… I just bought some… 

I was at a Mega once and was walking through the camping area, when suddenly my Garmin 'chirped up' (so to speak). That surprised me. Unfortunately I lost the message and couldn't get it back.

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2 hours ago, Goldenwattle said:

I was at a Mega once and was walking through the camping area, when suddenly my Garmin 'chirped up' (so to speak). That surprised me. Unfortunately I lost the message and couldn't get it back.

 

The data may be saved automatically as a waypoint.  But waypoints are by default sorted by distance, so detected Chirp data tends to become buried in a list of waypoints, and whatever title the Chirp owner named it.

 

I have a Chirp in my car that sends a TB Tracking Code.  I have it send all "0s" for the coordinates, which is the in the ocean west of Africa (I haven't decided on a better point yet, and it always sends coordinates).  It gets saved on a Garmin as probably the waypoint at the bottom of the list.  If you detect it, you see the info for a moment, then it vanishes, where it's saved as a waypoint.  Be aware that if you can't see the waypoint in a search, you must scroll the map to wherever the coordinates are if it's more than 60 miles away or so.  Or use GSAK or Basecamp to find it more easily.  And that it can take a minute or two to load data from a Chirp before it fully loads and then gets saved.  You may instead (or additionally) use a specifically set up Android phone or tablet which will handle Chirp data differently, maybe easier to retrieve.

 

A Chirp used as a TB can be named in any way.  I chose to name it the TB Tracking Code, and have the TB name as the description.  So when you pass it, the text "Chirp Detected!  [Tracking Code]" is shown after a beep.  You have as little as 30 seconds to write down that code after the beep, before it gets saved and buried (or never saved).  Anyway, it's a high difficulty way to get a Tracking Code.  It also requires reading a lot of caveats.  :anicute:

 

I would love to make a Mystery cache where to get the coordinates, you need to pass the Chirp along some trail somewhere on the planet (OK, within 2 miles if it's a Mystery Cache).  So you'd need Chirp Detection on and functioning and you need to know immediately when the load occurs and how to retrieve the coordinates or how to show the cache location.  And that makes it likely a D5 (although a T1 if I like).  Don't tempt me.  :anibad:

 

 

Edited by kunarion
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On 10/16/2022 at 11:33 AM, kunarion said:

 

I would love to make a Mystery cache where to get the coordinates, you need to pass the Chirp along some trail somewhere on the planet (OK, within 2 miles if it's a Mystery Cache).  So you'd need Chirp Detection on and functioning and you need to know immediately when the load occurs and how to retrieve the coordinates or how to show the cache location.  And that makes it likely a D5 (although a T1 if I like).  Don't tempt me.  :anibad:

 

 

I was able to publish one in late 2021, and my reviewers are all about letting me put more out, and yes, because it takes a “specific tool” it’s a D-5 😉 in my area…. 

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5 hours ago, iatsemedic said:

I was able to publish one in late 2021, and my reviewers are all about letting me put more out, and yes, because it takes a “specific tool” it’s a D-5 😉 in my area…. 

 

Really? I have a chirp sitting here, waiting for an inspired idea for deployment. 

I hadn't considered that it would HAVE TO be a Difficulty-5 cache.

That certainly wouldn't be my choice, since the 'special tool' is just a phone app. Not like it's a ladder you have trudge into the woods or a canoe you have portage!

 

Do we KNOW that it has to be rated so high? That would just stop some people from even looking at it.

I suppose I could name it "A Really Simple D-5" or something equally as lame.

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9 minutes ago, TeamRabbitRun said:

Really? I have a chirp sitting here, waiting for an inspired idea for deployment. 

I hadn't considered that it would HAVE TO be a Difficulty-5 cache.

That certainly wouldn't be my choice, since the 'special tool' is just a phone app. Not like it's a ladder you have trudge into the woods or a canoe you have portage!

 

Do we KNOW that it has to be rated so high? That would just stop some people from even looking at it.

I suppose I could name it "A Really Simple D-5" or something equally as lame.

The CHIRP-based caches that I've found have avoided the "special equipment" issue by putting the chirp and a slip of laminated paper in the same container. Seekers can use the CHIRP data if they want, or they can simply find the hidden container and get the same info from the slip of laminated paper.

 

Not having a CHIRP-capable device at the time, I found the container and used the slip of laminated paper.

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On 11/18/2022 at 2:58 PM, niraD said:

The CHIRP-based caches that I've found have avoided the "special equipment" issue by putting the chirp and a slip of laminated paper in the same container. Seekers can use the CHIRP data if they want, or they can simply find the hidden container and get the same info from the slip of laminated paper.

 

Not having a CHIRP-capable device at the time, I found the container and used the slip of laminated paper.


For my cache, I never want cachers to find the actual Chirp device.  So it was extra special double secret hidden away, where the signal could stil travel well.

 

But I like the idea of an extra tag of physical coordinates being available.  I made a tag on one of my Chirp stages when one was a little flakey.

 

 

Edited by kunarion
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You don’t “have” to make anything a specific D/T, but a lot of people in this area choose to because of the “special tool” as far as the phone app goes, the one I put out in 2011 I have been told that people struggled with the app and that most everyone has had the best luck with Garmin GPS’s…. 

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Has anyone encountered a wireless beacon that had info for multiple geocaches? I haven't yet.

One way this could work is something like an FM broadcaster with a song/message that clearly has the numbers of a final container, perhaps as 'lottery numbers'. But then before the audio file loops to the start again it could have some cryptic code phrase where the length of each word is for the coordinate numbers of a bonus cache (instructions on the bonus cache page).
 

That would work within the rules, but could you have a second geocache that isn't a bonus cache? Most wireless beacon caches I've done consider the beacon stage as virtual, so I'm guessing it's possible.

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23 minutes ago, GeoTrekker26 said:

That's interesting. Since a physical item has been placed how can it be considered a virtual stage?

 

Here's what the guidelines say:

 

Quote

Physical stages

A physical stage is a waypoint where the cache owner has placed an item, such as a container or a tag. A physical stage must be at least 528 feet (161 meters) away from the physical stages of other geocaches.

Virtual stages

A virtual stage is a waypoint where the cache owner has not placed an item. Geocachers gather information at virtual stages to help them find or complete the cache. A virtual stage can be within 528 feet (161 meters) of other geocaches.


That said, I've definitely seen multis where stages were considered "Virtual" if there was no container you had to find. For example an NFC tag on the back of a signpost. These might have been grandfathered in at some point? 

Edited by ADKer
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1 hour ago, GeoTrekker26 said:

That's interesting. Since a physical item has been placed how can it be considered a virtual stage?

Most wireless beacons are placed by the owner but some of them were there already. One of the ones I saw was a WIFI name and the router was already there long before the geocache was a thought. Only programming and re-naming the wifi network was changed. It was within the 528 feet of another traditional. This inspired me to do the same thing at my house.

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5 hours ago, arisoft said:

There has been alternative solutions for a long time. NFC, Bluetooth Low Energy (BLE) and Wi-Fi are the first that come to mind. BLE is the most promising because it is supported by almost every decent mobile device.

 

Wi-Fi uses a lot more power than Chirp.  NFC doesn't have the signal range of Chirp.  So "BLE" might be the Chirp replacement.  I found one that is not waterproof, has a range from ".2 meters"(!), can send a variety of signals, battery life is 16 months, and it's rather tiny.  But I need "weatherproof" at least.


Is there a particular Chirp killer, commercially available, that I can compare? 

It absolutely must have self-contained power, such as a common watch battery that is easy to replace.

It must be waterproof, or "weatherproof" like a Chirp.

It must be super tiny, with the intent that the actual device is never found by cachers.

It must have a broadcast range well beyond a 30-foot radius so that coordinates to a place may be given, it can send all the data, yet not be physically found.

It must be comparable in price to Chirp.

 

I would also prefer to be able to edit the data using my phone in the field, while not allowing finders to do that.  Chirp was easily messed with by finders with the ANT+ phone Apps.

 

It does not actually need to simulate a "Garmin Chirp", which would of course mean it isn't for persons using a handheld hiking GPS.  It then works with phones only, and maybe some kind of free App or Service.  But the less technical setup required of cachers, the better.

 

Edited by kunarion
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On 11/18/2022 at 2:45 PM, TeamRabbitRun said:

 

Really? I have a chirp sitting here, waiting for an inspired idea for deployment. 

I hadn't considered that it would HAVE TO be a Difficulty-5 cache.

That certainly wouldn't be my choice, since the 'special tool' is just a phone app. Not like it's a ladder you have trudge into the woods or a canoe you have portage!

 

Do we KNOW that it has to be rated so high? That would just stop some people from even looking at it.

I suppose I could name it "A Really Simple D-5" or something equally as lame.

 

I set my Chirp cache as "wireless receiver required" and Difficulty-4.5.  Most of the actual difficulty was the uber-aggressive hide style.  But it was that high also because the stages (two chirps) were so very frustratingly finicky.  Yes, I had in mind that only the most dedicated (and patient) cachers would even look at it.  The intent was, "it's cool and nerdy".  The reality was, it was very, very terrible.

 

Edited by kunarion
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3 hours ago, Geo-Jeddak said:

I came across this: https://www.beaconstac.com/buy-beacons/long-range-proximity-beacons.

It's supposedly great for outdoor use, but there's not much info on what exactly it can transmit.

 

That's very similar to one I previously saw on Amazon.com, but it wasn't waterproof.  The transmission range is a setting that affects battery life, so that's one consideration.  The device you linked uses 4 AA batteries, so it's relatively huge.  I hid my Chirp by wrapping it in camo duct tape onto the least accessible branch of a bush, to position it well off the ground for best signal range.  Cachers found the data but never found the Chirp.  These new devices will be somewhat harder to conceal so that muggles and cachers don't mess with it.  But I was spoiled by the teeny size of the Chirp.

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52 minutes ago, arisoft said:

There are many manufacturers of these BLE units. I just made a quick search and found a small waterproof long range unit with 4 year battery life.

 

https://www.kkmcn.com/long-range-beacon-k5p

 

You can also made them waterproof yourself by using these https://www.peclights.com/shop/wiring-accessories/gel-connectors

 

Cool.  The other links above have smaller versions as well.  The trick is deciding/testing them while 110% ending up with a rock-solid cache beacon that still will commercially exist a couple years from now, all without going broke. :anicute:

 

I know there are waterproof containers.  But when I think "Chirp device replacement", I think of the entire waterproof package being just about the size of a quarter, container and all.  So if I'm resigned to a relatively huge wireless transmitter that can in no way hide as easily as a Chirp could, there are many options for sure.

 

Edited by kunarion
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On 11/18/2022 at 2:45 PM, TeamRabbitRun said:

 

Really? I have a chirp sitting here, waiting for an inspired idea for deployment. 

I hadn't considered that it would HAVE TO be a Difficulty-5 cache.

That certainly wouldn't be my choice, since the 'special tool' is just a phone app. Not like it's a ladder you have trudge into the woods or a canoe you have portage!

 

Do we KNOW that it has to be rated so high? That would just stop some people from even looking at it.

I suppose I could name it "A Really Simple D-5" or something equally as lame.

 

I have 3 used Chirps (One was bad from the factory as it applies to Geocaching, with range of about 10 feet), and two more still Mint In Box.  One of the first finders on my previous Chirp cache edited some "hilarious" text into the data output... the free ANT+ demo Apps allow this, and it destroys the ability for a Garmin to see the data.  It's not the experience I want to present to Finders, neither reading weird text from a 3rd party, nor the built-in simple way to mess with it.  That was the straw that broke the camel's back, after a host of other Chirp issues.

 

But I have a Chirp in my car, it's my "Car TB", and it's been working well for 12 years including my previous car (with battery changes on a schedule).  With the Tracking Code also on the windshield sunshade that I set up at times.  It's rarely logged by others, a very quiet TB.  :anicute:

 

Edited by kunarion
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2 hours ago, BirdSearcher said:

Is there a way I can detect a Chirp with my iPhone? e.g.with an App or …?

 

No.  You can buy iPhone accessories with Apps that track heart rate or steps.  Although that's the same "ANT+" signal, they don't support Chirp.

 

I know that's an iPhone question, but since you're off-topic anyway (this is a Garmin thread), consider this:

You can buy a compatible used smart phone on ebay for less than $30, install the ANT+ Service and Apps, and you're golden.  It just needs the built-in ANT+ capability, with at least support for Android 4.  Because it would be handy to install a couple other Apps while hunting Chirp caches.  Locus Maps App may support Chirp, but I haven't tested that in a long time (and it may require at least Android 5).  Search for a working "Samsung Galaxy S5", for example.  This plan is mostly about just having an off-line device for Chirp.  The cheesy "ANT+" Apps don't present the data as a Garmin does, but you see a lot more data (serial numbers, bunch of stuff).  Usually you're just looking for coordinates, which should be shown.

 

If you're truly hunting a lot of Chirp caches, you may find a used Garmin Oregon 450 for less than $100.  Then you have an additional handy feature, the ability to have it navigate to the next waypoint after you receive it from the Chirp.  Beware that whatever you try, Chirp will be super finicky and weird, and sometimes not really work so well.  It's at best a very technical and nerdy thing.

 

More info is here:

https://www.thisisant.com/consumer/ant-101/ant-in-phones

 

Edited by kunarion
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