Dressing for cache trip alternating car and walks

2k · January 22, 2021

Looking for some ideas. I have a 3 day cache trip planned for which I will rent a small car. The trip will consist of many rides of a few to 30 minutes and many stops with walks of 50-4000m. Weather will be just above freezing, probably around 2-5C, possibly a light drizzle. No turbo air conditioning in the car, but obviously normal heating. No idea if the car will get warm during all those tiny rides and stops. I have raynaud syndrome, thus frozen fingers and toes will be a fact, regardless of what I do. Any suggestions on how to dress? I'm considering a thermal base layer, but if that's too warm then I can't take it off until the evening. I have no high-tech trousers but a choice of various tops.

January 22, 2021

Have you seen those little hand warmers? They provide heat but if they get too much you can take them out of your pocket.

https://www.uline.com/Product/Detail/S-14297B/Hand-and-Foot-Warmers/HotHands-Hand-Warmers-Bulk-Pack

A scarf can also be taken on and off without waiting until evening.

1.9k · January 22, 2021

I get really hot quickly when walking (granted I have little experience in walking in freezing temps) even in winter, so always prefer layers I can easily get off and back on.... we are having the opposite problem - how to carry enough water in 35-40 deg C walking....

January 22, 2021

Perhaps a battery-powered heated steering wheel cover could help a little. Waiting for summer is my choice.

Greetings Johannis10

January 22, 2021

I would wear some manner of thermal base layer and a non-insulated windstopping and at least water resistant top layer. You can always avoid overheating by walking slower. If possible, bring a mid layer you can wear/remove for additional temperature control.

Mostly worried about the drizzle; keeping warm is easy as long as you stay dry.

13.7k · January 22, 2021

4 hours ago, terratin said:

Looking for some ideas. I have a 3 day cache trip planned for which I will rent a small car. The trip will consist of many rides of a few to 30 minutes and many stops with walks of 50-4000m. Weather will be just above freezing, probably around 2-5C, possibly a light drizzle. No turbo air conditioning in the car, but obviously normal heating. No idea if the car will get warm during all those tiny rides and stops.

I have raynaud syndrome, thus frozen fingers and toes will be a fact, regardless of what I do. Any suggestions on how to dress? I'm considering a thermal base layer, but if that's too warm then I can't take it off until the evening. I have no high-tech trousers but a choice of various tops.

I thought you were from an area that pretty-much already had this type of weather conditions.

But guess I'm wrong, since I don't feel 35 degrees is actually cold.

A friend with reynaud simple adds a glove liner, and two pairs of thin socks instead of one with the same winter wear we use.

- Nylon or polyester base, synthetic or wool mid, and most times a light weight, maybe lined, water resistant jacket.

600 or better thinsulate boots with gore-tex, and always nylon, polyester, or wool socks. I wear wool socks in the summer.

No cotton anywhere.

I feel a base layer if you're simply hopping in n out of the car is overkill. Once you start sweating, you're done.

The "thermal base layer" is for the around 4000m walks.

Similar to SamLowry, if your footwear isn't right for the area, the throw-away heatpack warmers do come in sizes for feet, and the other 2/3rds can attest they keep her feet toasty well into a full day of "sitting in the tree stand" (and that's even inactive...), and I carry them in hand size for in the glove compartment (to hand to someone at accident scenes, with a blanket). My ski gloves even have pockets for them. Innovation.

13.7k · January 23, 2021

8 hours ago, terratin said:

Weather will be just above freezing, probably around 2-5C, possibly a light drizzle.

We don't knowingly head out to cache in the rain, but when we have an idea of "drizzle" or light rain, we just bring a couple umbrellas.

Winter, we have packs anyway, they fit, , and in summer our golf-type umbrellas even have rubber tread tips for use as a hiking stick.

- It's a nice touch for the cache too.

We found we're often more soaked by wearing rain gear, sweating faster than it's evaporating away.

- A big "irk" is someone log-bragging how much it rained, with "but we had our rain gear", and find every cache they did that day is soaked...

1.8k · January 23, 2021

Layers, some synthetics and some naturals. Research raingear some is better ... I tend to opt for breathable

January 23, 2021

Above freezing and walking fast: consider a long sleeve polyester wicking shirt (not cotton), short sleeve cotton tee shirt, and unlined wind breaker, hooded if possible. Knit hat. Water proof or water resistant boots or shoes. Two pairs of socks. Mittens if you have them.

Raincoat separate and in a backpack. Swap it out with the jacket if it rains. Raincoats don’t breathe and you’ll overheat if you put it over a jacket.

Bring extra socks and shoes and leave them in the car so you’ll have them. Bring an extra long sleeve shirt or two to put on if you need one. Leave those in the car or backpack.

Joe

2k · January 23, 2021

11 hours ago, SamLowrey said:

Have you seen those little hand warmers? They provide heat but if they get too much you can take them out of your pocket.

https://www.uline.com/Product/Detail/S-14297B/Hand-and-Foot-Warmers/HotHands-Hand-Warmers-Bulk-Pack

A scarf can also be taken on and off without waiting until evening.

Ugh, i always forget wearing a scarf for some reason. Noted! I won't be able to get handwarmers anymore. The trip already starts Monday morning, shops are closed and all deliveries take a lot longer due to Covid. Thanks a lot!

2k · January 23, 2021

11 hours ago, lee737 said:

I get really hot quickly when walking (granted I have little experience in walking in freezing temps) even in winter, so always prefer layers I can easily get off and back on.... we are having the opposite problem - how to carry enough water in 35-40 deg C walking....

*grin* That's not a problem for me. I love hot temperatures and would easily go on a hike above 40. Ehm.. yeah, my problem is the opposite: I don't really get warm even if I walk a lot. The problem here is that the air is fairly humid, which just doesn't work for me at all. Dry and cold is still ok, but humid and cold... please remind me again why I decide to do this now? :laughing:

2k · January 23, 2021

11 hours ago, Johannis10 said:

Perhaps a battery-powered heated steering wheel cover could help a little. Waiting for summer is my choice.

Greetings Johannis10

No time. And I don't own a car, thus this would be a bit of a waste. Hmm.. battery powered bike grips though.. I wonder if that exists.

2k · January 23, 2021

10 hours ago, cerberus1 said:

I thought you were from an area that pretty-much already had this type of weather conditions.

But guess I'm wrong, since I don't feel 35 degrees is actually cold.

A friend with reynaud simple adds a glove liner, and two pairs of thin socks instead of one with the same winter wear we use.

- Nylon or polyester base, synthetic or wool mid, and most times a light weight, maybe lined, water resistant jacket.

600 or better thinsulate boots with gore-tex, and always nylon, polyester, or wool socks. I wear wool socks in the summer.

No cotton anywhere.

I feel a base layer if you're simply hopping in n out of the car is overkill. Once you start sweating, you're done.

The "thermal base layer" is for the around 4000m walks.

Similar to SamLowry, if your footwear isn't right for the area, the throw-away heatpack warmers do come in sizes for feet, and the other 2/3rds can attest they keep her feet toasty well into a full day of "sitting in the tree stand" (and that's even inactive...), and I carry them in hand size for in the glove compartment (to hand to someone at accident scenes, with a blanket). My ski gloves even have pockets for them. Innovation.

Yeah, that's pretty much my thought. There's a risk though that the car won't get warm during these short rides towards the next cache. 35F isn't really that cold, but it's humid here and I can't bloody deal with humid. Cold and dry: oh yeah! Cold and super hot: Fantastic! Anything humid thrown in in winter and I'm freezing without ever getting warm regardless of how much I hike. I'll be doing EarthCaches, thus lots of note taking. I think I might take an actual notebook. Maybe I can write with gloves. I certainly have a very nice thicker pen that might be perfect for this.

2k · January 23, 2021

6 hours ago, cerberus1 said:

We don't knowingly head out to cache in the rain, but when we have an idea of "drizzle" or light rain, we just bring a couple umbrellas.

Winter, we have packs anyway, they fit, , and in summer our golf-type umbrellas even have rubber tread tips for use as a hiking stick.

- It's a nice touch for the cache too.

We found we're often more soaked by wearing rain gear, sweating faster than it's evaporating away.

- A big "irk" is someone log-bragging how much it rained, with "but we had our rain gear", and find every cache they did that day is soaked...

Hey, that's actually a good idea! The weather forecast seems to be improving and there's a chance that it'll be dry, but I'll pack an umbrella.

1.9k · January 23, 2021

6 hours ago, cerberus1 said:

A big "irk" is someone log-bragging how much it rained, with "but we had our rain gear", and find every cache they did that day is soaked...

Yep - you need to bring an umbrella regardless - for the caches....

2k · January 23, 2021

1 hour ago, lee737 said:

Yep - you need to bring an umbrella regardless - for the caches....

In this case it's mostly EarthCaches, 1 virtual and 1 webcam. And maybe 2-3 actual containers But yes, containers should not get soaked.

2.7k · January 23, 2021

11 hours ago, terratin said:

Yeah, that's pretty much my thought. There's a risk though that the car won't get warm during these short rides towards the next cache. 35F isn't really that cold, but it's humid here and I can't bloody deal with humid. Cold and dry: oh yeah! Cold and super hot: Fantastic! Anything humid thrown in in winter and I'm freezing without ever getting warm regardless of how much I hike. I'll be doing EarthCaches, thus lots of note taking. I think I might take an actual notebook. Maybe I can write with gloves. I certainly have a very nice thicker pen that might be perfect for this.

I would look for a small voice recorder instead of pencil & paper to record your notes.

5.6k · January 24, 2021

22 hours ago, terratin said:

No time. And I don't own a car, thus this would be a bit of a waste. Hmm.. battery powered bike grips though.. I wonder if that exists.

Something to consider for the future bike rides - kayak pogies. These are designed to fit over the paddle and protects the hand (and arm for the longer ones) from weather. We've used our long ones on the bicycle, they are big enough to cover the brake handle and really helped on cold and wet rides.

2k · January 24, 2021

3 hours ago, The Jester said:

Something to consider for the future bike rides - kayak pogies. These are designed to fit over the paddle and protects the hand (and arm for the longer ones) from weather. We've used our long ones on the bicycle, they are big enough to cover the brake handle and really helped on cold and wet rides.

Oh, that's an interesting idea! Thanks a lot. Maybe this will keep my fingers from freezing!

January 24, 2021

40 minutes ago, terratin said:

Oh, that's an interesting idea! Thanks a lot. Maybe this will keep my fingers from freezing!

Bike-specific pogies are probably a better fit and those are now widely available. Raval handmakes fairly affordable ones in Latvia, and Alpkit makes them in the UK but no idea how their pricing/availability works post-brexit.

2k · January 24, 2021

27 minutes ago, mustakorppi said:

Bike-specific pogies are probably a better fit and those are now widely available. Raval handmakes fairly affordable ones in Latvia, and Alpkit makes them in the UK but no idea how their pricing/availability works post-brexit.

I'll go searching once I'm back from this trip. Weather update: it snowed over night. Sigh. At least there's a chance the snow will be gone by Tuesday when I'm heading for the hillier parts.

January 24, 2021

One last thing: use the car as a base and load all the gear that you might possibly need or use. Sounds like you’ll typically be within 30 minutes of it, and maybe 60 for the 4 km trip. If you don’t use some things, it won’t matter because you don’t have to carry it all. For want of a nail, and all of that.

Joe

5.6k · January 24, 2021

11 hours ago, mustakorppi said:

Bike-specific pogies are probably a better fit and those are now widely available. Raval handmakes fairly affordable ones in Latvia, and Alpkit makes them in the UK but no idea how their pricing/availability works post-brexit.

I hadn't heard about bike pogies, but that would probably be better, we've used our kayak ones for so long I never thought about exploring further.

January 25, 2021

1 hour ago, The Jester said:

I hadn't heard about bike pogies, but that would probably be better, we've used our kayak ones for so long I never thought about exploring further.

I never heard of these but I figured what they were by context.

https://urbancycling.com/products/urban-cycling-handlebar-mitts-for-mountain-commuter-bike-flat-handlebar-pogie-winter-thermal-mtb-mittens-black?variant=3703010459671&currency=USD

Reminds me of something else. When I was a kid on a dirtbike and ran across a thing called a "brush guard" it made so much sense to me it seemed like it should be standard equipment. But I never got them since I grew out dirtbiking soon after.

14k · January 25, 2021

On 1/24/2021 at 5:41 AM, terratin said:

Oh, that's an interesting idea! Thanks a lot. Maybe this will keep my fingers from freezing!

These might work.

2k · January 25, 2021

6 hours ago, NYPaddleCacher said:

These might work.

Nope, been there, tried it. :laughing:

Ok, 22 caches found, well.. visited and notes taken. Only one cache was an actual container, buried under snow. I decided to wear thermals after all. I really needed the bottoms. Top is a bit more tricky: at times I really, really needed it and at other times it was too warm. Oh well, still a good trip. I somehow managed to walk about 17km today. Tomorrow is the long day though: 25ECs :antenna:

5.6k · January 26, 2021

16 hours ago, NYPaddleCacher said:

These might work.

Knitted gloves don't stop the wind. My wife and I bought windstop pile mitts (well, gloves for me) that are warmer, but they aren't waterproof so wet weather soaks them (we also have windstop pile jackets that make a big difference). Overmitts (mainly used for climbing) with/without liners are good for all weather, but are a little less nimble (lots of room for liners, mitts, gloves inside). We have found a pair of biking gloves/mitts (we call them lobster claws since they have thumb, forefinger, middle finger glove like, but ring & little finger are mitt like) that are warm and waterproof - too warm often when not biking (no windchill). So finding the perfect glove/mitt is very individual and may take some serious searching (and possibly multiple pairs for different conditions).

Just a note, mitts are generally warmer than gloves (less surface area to lose heat) but are harder to manipulate things (I remember seeing 'shooter mitts' that allow the forefinger to slip into a glove like section for pulling the trigger).

1.3k · January 26, 2021

23 hours ago, NYPaddleCacher said:

These might work.

I’m not sure everyone got the joke!

14k · January 26, 2021

7 hours ago, The Jester said:

Knitted gloves don't stop the wind. My wife and I bought windstop pile mitts (well, gloves for me) that are warmer, but they aren't waterproof so wet weather soaks them (we also have windstop pile jackets that make a big difference). Overmitts (mainly used for climbing) with/without liners are good for all weather, but are a little less nimble (lots of room for liners, mitts, gloves inside). We have found a pair of biking gloves/mitts (we call them lobster claws since they have thumb, forefinger, middle finger glove like, but ring & little finger are mitt like) that are warm and waterproof - too warm often when not biking (no windchill). So finding the perfect glove/mitt is very individual and may take some serious searching (and possibly multiple pairs for different conditions).

Just a note, mitts are generally warmer than gloves (less surface area to lose heat) but are harder to manipulate things (I remember seeing 'shooter mitts' that allow the forefinger to slip into a glove like section for pulling the trigger).

The mitten pic was kind of a joke. Those are the glove in the Bernie Sanders meme that's been going around.

I used to ski downhill (a lot...I was on a corporate racing team) so I know what makes a good glove. One pair of gloves is never enough.

2k · January 26, 2021

4 hours ago, NYPaddleCacher said:

The mitten pic was kind of a joke. Those are the glove in the Bernie Sanders meme that's been going around.

I used to ski downhill (a lot...I was on a corporate racing team) so I know what makes a good glove. One pair of gloves is never enough.

Oooh, I didn't get it either and thought you referred to taking fingers and thumb out of the ends and making a fist to warm up everthing. Looks like Bernie is doing just that.

Note to self: Gaiters! Nothing more annoying than wading through snow that is deeper than your boots. Got properly wet feet today, but fortunately no freezing toes.

5.6k · January 26, 2021

43 minutes ago, terratin said:

Note to self: Gaiters! Nothing more annoying than wading through snow that is deeper than your boots. Got properly wet feet today, but fortunately no freezing toes.

Amen! I have both short (boot top) and long (knee) gaiters. Being that the calf's can lose up to 50% of your body heat (the head up to 75% - so hats!) protecting the lower leg is important (and preventing wet/cold feet/toes). One idea I've used is combine gaiters and convertable pants. When you get warm/hot you unzip the pant legs and drop them into the gaiters. When you stop (or otherwise get chilled) the legs are easily pulled back up and zipped.

2k · January 26, 2021

5 minutes ago, The Jester said:

Amen! I have both short (boot top) and long (knee) gaiters. Being that the calf's can lose up to 50% of your body heat (the head up to 75% - so hats!) protecting the lower leg is important (and preventing wet/cold feet/toes). One idea I've used is combine gaiters and convertable pants. When you get warm/hot you unzip the pant legs and drop them into the gaiters. When you stop (or otherwise get chilled) the legs are easily pulled back up and zipped.

True, this. I completely forgot that I had them to be honest. Bought them to deal with wet grass and grassland with unexpected holes filled with water (also called moor) in Scotland. I didn't expect that much snow, but then I didn't plan to go that high up into the hills. Ho hum...

EC winner today: "find some pyrite crystals on the ground... " Me, looking at nearly 30cm of snow: Hmm.. maybe not. I did find some on the outcrop though. Phew.

Edited January 26, 2021 by terratin

14k · January 27, 2021

19 hours ago, terratin said:

Oooh, I didn't get it either and thought you referred to taking fingers and thumb out of the ends and making a fist to warm up everthing. Looks like Bernie is doing just that.

Note to self: Gaiters! Nothing more annoying than wading through snow that is deeper than your boots. Got properly wet feet today, but fortunately no freezing toes.

Yes. Gaiters. They work well in the snow as well as tall wet grass.

1.8k · January 27, 2021

2 hours ago, NYPaddleCacher said:

Yes. Gaiters. They work well in the snow as well as tall wet grass.

And the proper gaiters render a bit more protection in rattle snake country. Trust me on this one!!

1.8k · January 27, 2021

On 1/26/2021 at 4:09 AM, IceColdUK said:

I’m not sure everyone got the joke!

Nearly blew my morning tea out my nose over that one. However, the computer screen needs a bit of a cleaning now. LOL

2k · January 27, 2021

4 hours ago, humboldt flier said:

And the proper gaiters render a bit more protection in rattle snake country. Trust me on this one!!

Are rattlesnakes aggressive, or do they only attack when you've ignored the rattling and are literally standing on top of them?

Greetings from the continent that mostly lacks poisonous critters :laughing:

1.7k · January 28, 2021

4 hours ago, terratin said:

Are rattlesnakes aggressive, or do they only attack when you've ignored the rattling and are literally standing on top of them?

It depends (speaking from experience!) The rattle is typically a warning; you hear the rattle and you back off. However, IF the rattlesnake is hungry, and out for prey, it's not going to give a warning rattle, it will just attack. My husband was bitten by a rattlesnake; it was in the spring, snakes were just coming out of hibernation and were hungry. He was bitten before he realized it, there was no warning rattle, he thought he was stuck by a thistle as we were pulling weeds near a porch. The snake was under the porch, and saw his hand come down to pull the weed, and must have thought it was a small animal. Sent hubby via med-evac helicopter to the nearest hospital where he spent 3 days in ICU...in this case the snake was agressive, and no warning was given.

1.8k · January 28, 2021

4 hours ago, CAVinoGal said:

It depends (speaking from experience!) The rattle is typically a warning; you hear the rattle and you back off. However, IF the rattlesnake is hungry, and out for prey, it's not going to give a warning rattle, it will just attack. My husband was bitten by a rattlesnake; it was in the spring, snakes were just coming out of hibernation and were hungry. He was bitten before he realized it, there was no warning rattle, he thought he was stuck by a thistle as we were pulling weeds near a porch. The snake was under the porch, and saw his hand come down to pull the weed, and must have thought it was a small animal. Sent hubby via med-evac helicopter to the nearest hospital where he spent 3 days in ICU...in this case the snake was agressive, and no warning was given.

True that:

Was out with a group of five persons doing the Geo-art Polaris ... above Kokopelli.

It was night and I walked right over a coiled Mojave Green Racer. (among the most venomous of the rattlers). Have absolutely no idea why there was no strike.

I have always been snake aware and have no idea why I did not see the critter. Needless to say I am even more cautious. Gaiters and sturdy pokey sticks > YESSSS.

Note: the youngest of the snakes are among the heavier "injectors".

5.6k · January 28, 2021

13 hours ago, humboldt flier said:

True that:

Was out with a group of five persons doing the Geo-art Polaris ... above Kokopelli.

It was night and I walked right over a coiled Mojave Green Racer. (among the most venomous of the rattlers). Have absolutely no idea why there was no strike.

I have always been snake aware and have no idea why I did not see the critter. Needless to say I am even more cautious. Gaiters and sturdy pokey sticks > YESSSS.

Note: the youngest of the snakes are among the heavier "injectors".

I once tried to step on a rattlesnake in Eastern Washington. I was in Teva's and saw the coiled snake inches below my sole just as my foot was coming down. Don't ask how I did this, but made an "air" step (made another step without having the first foot hit the ground) over and past the snake. We later named that move the "Yakima Viper Two Step."

Older snakes can control the amount of venom used in a bite. Often humans are bitten as defensive strike and little or no venom is injected - we are too big to be prey. But young snakes will give the whole load in the strike.

1.8k · January 29, 2021

On 1/22/2021 at 6:00 PM, cerberus1 said:

We don't knowingly head out to cache in the rain,

Hmmmmm Interesting take,

Here in Humboldt County, Calif >>>> you would never get to cache. "Never" is a hyperbole ... but one's caching would be seriously hampered.

5.6k · January 29, 2021

4 hours ago, humboldt flier said:

Hmmmmm Interesting take,

Here in Humboldt County, Calif >>>> you would never get to cache. "Never" is a hyperbole ... but one's caching would be seriously hampered.

As we say in the Great Pacific NorthWet - If you don't learn to cache in the rain, you'll never go caching. I've always found it harder to think about caching in the rain, then to actually cache in the rain. If I'm out on cache run and it starts raining, I just put on the rain gear and keep going. But, if I'm home in the nice warm, dry house thinking about going caching, but see that it's raining it's more "I don't want to go out and cache in that."

2k · February 9, 2021

Well, another similar trip coming up on Friday to Saturday. And again it just snowed and will be below freezing. Gaiters are packed this time, thermals will come along, and I will remember this time that the tiny car I have rented has front wheel drive and hence I will park it in snow with the back wheels instead of the front wheels :antenna:

Dressing for cache trip alternating car and walks

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