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Yellow vests and blinking lights, anyone use "disguises"?


Mr_Toads

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So I am wearing a safety vest and have a blinking yellow light on the top of the car when I am doing these road runs where I have to stop every quarter mile. 
If I was asked, I would say I am auditing the telephone poles or checking the culvert or something... 

I look like I have some reason to be stopping off the road and so far have had a little old lady complain about a bridge that yells when it rains, but seem to be ignored by all. 
 

Does anyone else use ways to look like you belong when searching?
Could you get away with a vest and a hard hat in the city? 

thoughts? 

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If you have ever tried to stop on the side of a Texas road, folks are both suspicious and they pass you at about 70 mph on a country road. Vest started so that I wouldn't get hit. (wife works for our DOT) There are strings of caches along two lane roads here with little or no shoulder. Plus, folks do not take kindly to strangers, but they have no problem with road workers or utility workers. If I was to be poking in someone's fenceline, there would be questions real quick if was just a regular joe.  

 

 

Edited by Mr_Toads
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31 minutes ago, Mr_Toads said:

If you have ever tried to stop on the side of a Texas road, folks are both suspicious and they pass you at about 70 mph on a country road. Vest started so that I wouldn't get hit. (wife works for our DOT) There are strings of caches along two lane roads here with little or no shoulder. Plus, folks do not take kindly to strangers, but they have no problem with road workers or utility workers. If I was to be poking in someone's fenceline, there would be questions real quick if was just a regular joe.  

 

 

 

I'm fortunate enough to be in a cache rich area (also in Texas) so I can kinda pick and choose.  I rarely do roadside caches for the reasons you state.  I don't like making myself look suspicious.  And that is exactly how you look stopped on some little traveled road looking around.  Same reason I don't do urban micros or LPCs much.

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35 minutes ago, Mr_Toads said:

If you have ever tried to stop on the side of a Texas road, folks are both suspicious and they pass you at about 70 mph on a country road.

Vest started so that I wouldn't get hit. (wife works for our DOT) There are strings of caches along two lane roads here with little or no shoulder.

Plus, folks do not take kindly to strangers, but they have no problem with road workers or utility workers.

If I was to be poking in someone's fenceline, there would be questions real quick if was just a regular joe.  

 

Here, right of way is for utilities, so you'd have to fake signs too.    :D   "Fence line" isn't needed for it to be trespassing.

Most know what vehicles are used, and someone's probably gonna stop by.  Have a few call the cops, and now they're looking.  

Maybe being so flamboyant could be a good thing.  If the CO didn't get permission to place, that cache gets taken care of too.  :)

 

Back on topic, we've seen folks picking up trash with vests on.  But they're really picking it up, and not dumpin' it when done.  

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Right here.  Finally getting a little caught up with posts.  Long story, but got 'unretired' to help a friend with his business in a pinch.

 

OK -- Our 'motto':  STEALTH IS VASTLY OVERRATED

 

The cachemobile has since changed and looks ever so much more official (need to get a new photo), but we did stick with the signs.

 

45284633_Sign9.thumb.png.6332381dbdcc0098ca2285d8f299e103.png

 

post-1432531-086505500%201439498287.jpg

 

 

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Clipboard has been my staple through the years. In some instances I have employed safety vests and hard hats.

 

Slightly off topic when in "the boonies" during hunting season.  Always with hunter safety vest and headgear.  Ears always tuned to the sounds of gunshots. 

 

 

One time in South San Jose, California told a small group of curious juveniles that I was a botanist and was studying the three different species of poison oak in the region. They were rather shocked when I pointed out that two of them were standing ankle deep in a small bloom of the dreaded three leafed plant.

 

Yepper:  there were truly 3 different variants at that location!!!

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When I pull off on the side of a road. First thing I do is look around for an obvious cache GZ. Then, as I approach the spot, I hold my phone up to my hear to look like I'm talking on my phone. We can't use a phone while driving where I live, so pulling over to make a phone call is not unusual and doesn't draw attention.

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On 1/22/2021 at 8:00 AM, kunarion said:

 

When I pull over to the side of a road to hunt a cache, a police car pulls up behind, lights flashing. Way too often.

 

That kinda distracts me from the cache hunt.

 

I've slowed my caching to a crawl because I choose not to find caches (usually throwdown junk) along roads. There have been several instances when law enforcement stopped to see what I was doing on various cache but all of them were positive with no issues. There were even a couple of times when the officer(s) helped look for the cache.  B)

 

As far as disguising to cache, not anything I've ever done. Well, I have held my phone up to my ear a few times when in real busy areas. Thing is, the more you try to be inconspicuous, the more conspicuous you end up being. I've found that on most caches, people pay little attention to you if you go about the search like you own the place. ;)

Edited by Mudfrog
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17 hours ago, Mr_Toads said:

So I am wearing a safety vest and have a blinking yellow light on the top of the car when I am doing these road runs where I have to stop every quarter mile. 
If I was asked, I would say I am auditing the telephone poles or checking the culvert or something... 

I look like I have some reason to be stopping off the road and so far have had a little old lady complain about a bridge that yells when it rains, but seem to be ignored by all. 
 

Does anyone else use ways to look like you belong when searching?
Could you get away with a vest and a hard hat in the city? 

thoughts? 

 

Blinking yellow or amber lights on a vehicle might not be legal unless it actually is being used as a hazard vehicle.   If you're not actually using the vehicle in a manner allowed by state laws you could get a ticket.  

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I have, at times, cached dress in full Jester outfit.  I've found spectacle is better than stealth.  People either let you do anything while enjoying the 'entertainment' or will turn away and pointedly 'not see' you.  So I could crawl all over that bench in front of the Seattle Federal building and people will either 'ignore the guy trying to attract attention' or 'enjoy the capers I'm pulling while grabbing the cache' - but either way I'm good.

 

There was one time (not in outfit) that I & another guy started juggling on the sidewalk in a tourist town, making lots of noise and banter, while a couple of friends were finding and pulling out the cache at a rock bench a couple of feet away.  No one noticed.

 

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1 hour ago, The Jester said:

I have, at times, cached dress in full Jester outfit.  I've found spectacle is better than stealth.  People either let you do anything while enjoying the 'entertainment' or will turn away and pointedly 'not see' you.  So I could crawl all over that bench in front of the Seattle Federal building and people will either 'ignore the guy trying to attract attention' or 'enjoy the capers I'm pulling while grabbing the cache' - but either way I'm good.

 

There was one time (not in outfit) that I & another guy started juggling on the sidewalk in a tourist town, making lots of noise and banter, while a couple of friends were finding and pulling out the cache at a rock bench a couple of feet away.  No one noticed.

 

Reminds me of Douglas Adams' concept of an S.E.P. field.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somebody_else's_problem

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2 hours ago, The Jester said:

People either let you do anything while enjoying the 'entertainment' or will turn away and pointedly 'not see' you

Similar experience wearing loud full lycra cycling kit. Some people might stare at me or away from me, but I never get the feeling that anyone pays any attention to what I’m doing. And riding a folding bike in a small town, kids stared in wonder at a large adult riding a bike smaller than what they ride, and made their parents look too. I thought well there goes my stealth, but all their thoughts were on the bike, not what I was doing next to it.

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On 1/21/2021 at 3:32 PM, Mr_Toads said:

Does anyone else use ways to look like you belong when searching?
Could you get away with a vest and a hard hat in the city? 

thoughts? 

 

I carry a small clipboard, gives a good writing surface when signing logs, provides a notepad for notes on earthcaches or multis when needed, and with my phone/camera and clipboard I look like I'm taking notes on tree leaves, or other natural pursuits when in the country or alongside a roadway.  A small dog can get you off trail to explore when needed, and gives you another reason to be out walking trails (where dogs are permitted, of course).

 

A geocaching friend enjoys caching in San Francisco city; she says she just wears old baggy clothes, carries her backpack, mumbles or sings to herself and no one pays any attention when she starts poking through bushes or looking under a bench (or walking in circles trying to hone in on GZ)....a vest and hard hat would be more conspicuous for her!  Guess it would depend on you, and what you are comfortable with.  If you project confidence and the appearance of knowing what you are doing, most will pay you no mind.

Edited by CAVinoGal
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16 hours ago, The Jester said:

There was one time (not in outfit) that I & another guy started juggling on the sidewalk in a tourist town, making lots of noise and banter, while a couple of friends were finding and pulling out the cache at a rock bench a couple of feet away.  No one noticed.

 

Sounds like a moneymaker... just put a hat down and watch the money come rolling in!  Perfect way to finance a new gpsr...

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Yes, apart from the Improbability Drive, which wasn't an option offered by the dealer at the time, the cachemobile was upgraded.  The vehicle now looks the part a bit more than it did before.  We also have 'company' jackets with the logos in two weights, chosen based upon the season.  Right now, it's the fleece!

 

We've had people volunteer to open locked gates for us, we park 'as needed', and are otherwise nearly always completely ignored.  If anyone does ask, we either give them the whole geocaching story, or fall back on the old "We're confirming the location of benchmarks" line, depending upon who's asking and how much time we feel we have to chat.

 

I can't tell you how much easier it's been since we adopted this approach. 

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I cached in Lederhosen once. And a few times I've cached in uniform. The only time I remember caching in a yellow vest was at a CITO.

 

I tend not to do stop and go geocaching on the side of the road. One of the few times I remember doing it was on quiet Oklahoma dirt roads, in the winter. Even then, I tried to pick an out of the way spot to park and then walk to caches, not drive from cache to cache. I had exactly zero people come ask me what I was doing.

 

Maybe it's the government lawyer in me, but creating logos, having a flashing light, and whatnot sounds like a trespassing by false pretenses charge in the making. Making yourself look like you have a legit reason to be in a utility right of way easement, when in fact you do not, counts as false pretenses, even if you admit you're geocaching when someone asks. It's not quite dressing up in a blue polo shirt and khakis in order to walk out of Best Buy with a TV under your arm, but it's the same concept.

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47 minutes ago, hzoi said:

The only time I remember caching in a yellow vest was at a CITO.

 

I don't wear a vest while caching, but sometimes I "Clean Up The Area".  I grab a garbage bag out of the car and pick up some of the trash, waiting for people to ignore me.   Or I grab a big fallen branch and drag it over onto the Geotrail that I'm covering.  And then I get more branches, in full view of everyone, as if I'm the official branch moving person.

 

Sure, most people in a public area are idly watching, aren't paying attention, and won't even remember I was there.  Whatever, before I grab or place the container, I wait til they get bored of watching me pick up stuff.

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I think some people enjoy the dress up aspect more than the need to conceal their motives.

 

I would never cache somewhere that I felt the need to present a false identity, even if it is to just make myself invisible to muggles. One of my top rules is that I do not cache where I believe the locals won't appreciate behavior that they might see as sketchy. I respect that people have a certain expectation of privacy around their homes and their property even if I may be within my legal right to be there. 

Edited by fbingha
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14 hours ago, fbingha said:

One of my top rules is that I do not cache where I believe the locals won't appreciate behavior that they might see as sketchy. I respect that people have a certain expectation of privacy around their homes and their property even if I may be within my legal right to be there. 

+1000

I wish this would be a verifiable attitude necessary to become a hider of geocaches.

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15 hours ago, fbingha said:

I think some people enjoy the dress up aspect more than the need to conceal their motives.

 

Well, that's true enough for me. Not so much the caching in camo bit, I was just on my way to or from work. But the Lederhosen was fun. :)

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A friend and I once grabbed a cache about 30 feet away fro,m a mom and her kid at a gazebo. We had clipboards and acted like we were city workers inspecting them.  Was inspecting the rafters (cache location). Paid us no notice once they thought we were workers.

Edited by Wacka
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On 1/28/2021 at 12:09 PM, hzoi said:

Maybe it's the government lawyer in me, but creating logos, having a flashing light, and whatnot sounds like a trespassing by false pretenses charge in the making.

Objection.  Calls for speculation by the witness.  I was hoping a 'government lawyer' wouldn't make too many assumptions. 

 

We don't trespass, so that aspect of the game is a non-issue.  In fact, I have numerous times seen signs that make it clear that the CO has placed a cache in an improper spot, requiring trespass to access.  I take a photo of the sign and post it in my NM log.

 

As for those two 'gates' I mentioned, they were in fact erected illegally across a county road.  Locals thought it was a cute way to create their own 'gated community' by blocking access.  They had used a bunch of daisy-chained locks.  A certain someone in the county had turned a blind eye until we brought it to the County Commissioner's attention.  Not a problem now.

 

 

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I've read about the 'Clipboard and Vest' urban camouflage approach, though I've never tried it myself. I do wear a neon trail vest during hunting season. That being said, I have some fond memories of hiking ridiculous oversized containers out into the woods. When I'd pass someone on the trails I just keep a straight face, give a 'wassup' nod and continue walking like I belonged there, no disguise needed! :)

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18 hours ago, Lostboy1966 said:

I've read about the 'Clipboard and Vest' urban camouflage approach, though I've never tried it myself. I do wear a neon trail vest during hunting season. That being said, I have some fond memories of hiking ridiculous oversized containers out into the woods. When I'd pass someone on the trails I just keep a straight face, give a 'wassup' nod and continue walking like I belonged there, no disguise needed! :)

 

Most of the clipboard and vests and "official looking" vehicles tend to be used in urban and sub-urban settings, but IMHO it's hard to avoid attention when it's just you and another person or two in the woods.    Simply pulling out a notebook and pen, and gazing into the trees or looking closely at the ground makes it appear that you're doing "something" but not something interesting enough that anyone is going to ask questions.    I live in a small town with a well known university and smaller college so there are a few people out doing "research".

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Honestly I think just going with a friend (or two or five) helps more than anything.

 

The other day I went with a friend to find a micro in a tree that was in a park adjacent to a schoolyard (two of them actually). As we approached GZ there were kids everywhere, sledding down the hill. Did I mention the tree in question is on the top of said hill? There were parents there watching their kids, and as we got closer my friend and I resolved that we should probably be super open about why we were there, if anyone so much as looked at us, we would inform the parents that we were geocaching, etc.

 

Well - nobody paid us any attention. A few friendly kids waved and said hi to us, we waved back, and just continued looking up and down the trees, making casual conversation as we searched. Not 10 feet away from us were two parents talking to each other. Nobody even batted an eye at the two weirdos with no kids of their own standing on top of a sledding hill poking around in the trees. We eventually DNF'd it and walked back to the cars. Once again, families passed by, waved, said hello, etc. but nobody questioned it.

 

Edited by GreyingJay
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This has been a great discussion. Thanks for all the posts.

I started wearing a safety vest because we have a few thousand road caches in Central Texas. And folks just drive like bats outta hell here.
While I don't park in the road or anything (Texas DOT has 15 right of way on most roads outside of cities and towns), you can pull off pretty well.

One great/funny things is if you pull off the road in the Texas countryside here, folks stop and ask if you are ok just as much. Heck, if you are going fast down roads here, folks here will move to the side and let you pass in lots of places still (if native texans). 

 

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On 1/21/2021 at 6:32 PM, Mr_Toads said:

Could you get away with a vest and a hard hat in the city? 

 

I had done a lot of Geocaching in New York City.  If you're in a  busy area, no one pays attention to you.  We were hunting a cache on a busy street outside a restaurant.  People waiting in line to get in.  A couple came up and asked if we were Geocaching.  They were Europeans, on vacation.  "I think it's at the bottom of that sign, behind that lady."  I put my foot on the curb, and retied my shoelaces, and grabbed the cache.  We all signed it.  I went back, and put my backpack on the curb, and looked inside, and returned the cache.  Nobody saw anything.

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On 1/30/2021 at 4:49 PM, ecanderson said:
On 1/28/2021 at 2:09 PM, hzoi said:

Maybe it's the government lawyer in me, but creating logos, having a flashing light, and whatnot sounds like a trespassing by false pretenses charge in the making.

Objection.  Calls for speculation by the witness.  I was hoping a 'government lawyer' wouldn't make too many assumptions. 

 

We don't trespass, so that aspect of the game is a non-issue.  In fact, I have numerous times seen signs that make it clear that the CO has placed a cache in an improper spot, requiring trespass to access.  I take a photo of the sign and post it in my NM log.

 

As for those two 'gates' I mentioned, they were in fact erected illegally across a county road.  Locals thought it was a cute way to create their own 'gated community' by blocking access.  They had used a bunch of daisy-chained locks.  A certain someone in the county had turned a blind eye until we brought it to the County Commissioner's attention.  Not a problem now.

 

It's your fourth point of contact on the line, not mine. I have pointed out why I do not think your course of action is a good idea. I hope you never catch any flak for it. But if you do, my concern is that the subterfuge will suddenly invite more attention than it is worth. I can easily see a judge ignoring any "I thought I could be there legally" argument once they determine someone's entire getup was fictitious.

 

I just cache. If I feel too exposed, I skip that one. Most of the time, it's not the good caches that are hidden that way, so odds are good that all I am missing out on is damp prescription bottle 7 of 25 or whatever. To me, that's better than putting my security clearance at risk.

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4 hours ago, hzoi said:

II can easily see a judge ignoring any "I thought I could be there legally" argument once they determine someone's entire getup was fictitious.

 

I just cache. If I feel too exposed, I skip that one. Most of the time, it's not the good caches that are hidden that way, so odds are good that all I am missing out on is damp prescription bottle 7 of 25 or whatever. To me, that's better than putting my security clearance at risk.

 

Exactly.  :)

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11 hours ago, hzoi said:

 I can easily see a judge ignoring any "I thought I could be there legally" argument once they determine someone's entire getup was fictitious.

I guess that's where we keep running by each other.  For what reason would we be discussing this with a judge?  I thought I was clear earlier about trespassing issues and how we deal with them rather specifically.  We don't do the search, and we post photos of the warning indicators in NM logs.  Should probably post them as NA logs, but we like to give the CO a chance to explain, if there is an explanation to be had (e.g., "It's my property").   Sometimes, it's a matter of clarifying the situation in the description, and sometimes it's just not going to work.

 

So if we remove probable cause for trespass, what's the next option in the arsenal?   Seriously, I'm trying to understand, but not getting there.  Understand that the ruse is for the rubes, not LEO.  With them, we play it straight if questioned, which almost never happens anyway.

 

I'm up to my wazoo in DFARS contracts at the moment, but am not at all concerned about clearances due to our caching methods.

 

Edited by ecanderson
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24 minutes ago, ecanderson said:
12 hours ago, hzoi said:

 I can easily see a judge ignoring any "I thought I could be there legally" argument once they determine someone's entire getup was fictitious.

I guess that's where we keep running by each other.  For what reason would we be discussing this with a judge? 

 

The original post discusses pulling off the road and parking, then caching on the side of the road. That's the context in which I answered the question originally, because the OP says they have a flashing light. (But yes, I added the logo bit for you.) 

 

Unless there is a sidewalk, the "right of way" easement on the side of a road is not normally for pulling off and walking, it's the easement the county holds so they can expand the road if need be - therefore, if one pulls off the road, parks, and starts milling around with a GPSr or phone in hand, blinking light and vest or no, one is open for a complaint of trespass. It could be expanded to anyone walking around behind a shopping center lifting lampskirts or looking in guardrails, fence posts, or utility boxes. If one has not entered a commercial property in order to conduct business, one is not really an invitee, n'est-ce pas?

 

We've not gone out caching together, so I'm not tracking how you go about it. If that's not what you're doing, then more power to you.

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Walking a county road easement where there are no paved alternatives isn't a violation of anything in this part of the world.  It's a fact of life.  Neither is parking on one unless prohibited by signage, which does occur in rare instances.  We've certainly never been hassled about it, and it occurs fairly frequently -- usually several times on each cache run.  Many of our COs are good enough to place them where there's a wide pull-out, which is a bonus, but is never assured.  If we are ever ticketed for parking improperly (which has never happened) in such kinds of places, we'd just pay the ticket if it was legit. 

 

Honestly, I'd worry more about people who park for a GR cache and aren't clear of the through lane.  Dangerous for both the cacher and any other traffic.  That really would be worth a ticket.

 

Commercial property can be an issue no matter how one presents.  We want to cache, not get caught up in conversations or conflicts, which did occasionally occur when caching as 'civilians'.  We don't want to have to deal with asking every CO if they've received permission, and who gave it to them (that's the reviewer's job) nor in the event that permission has been granted, find the right person in management to explain it to the local mall cop.  Avoiding all of those kinds of issues was 99% of the point of our current method, and it has proven even more successful than we originally imagined.  Five years with this method, thousands of caches, and NO negative contacts (not even 'mall cops' <g>) since the conversion.

 

 

 

 

 

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