Why Did Locationless Go Away? I Have A Frog Of An Idea

[+JL_HSTRE]

The Groundspeak locationless cache about meeting Signal The Frog came out last year (https://coord.info/GC8FR0G). The logging tasks are clearly stated on the cache page:

 

Logging task:

1. You must find the Signal the Frog® mascot or official 20th anniversary Signal the Frog® banner in-person in the years 2020-21.

2. Include a photo of you or a personal item with Signal in your online log. (Old photos are not permitted. Logs that do not meet the requirements are subject to deletion.)

Both versions of Signal the Frog® are created and distributed only by Geocaching HQ and are most reliably found at Mega- and Giga-Events.

 

I see 21 logs for today or yesterday (Jan 18-19, 2021). Looking at the attached photos

4 appear legitimate (Signal mascot or official Signal banner)

2 look legitimate at a glance, but a closer look suggests they are photoshopped or otherwise forged

5 show a Signal geocoin or ornament

4 are blatantly virtual (ex: here's a picture of Signal on my computer screen)

3 are Signal plushies

2 are nametags that include a picture of Signal

1 is a drawing

 

Terrible reading comprehension or just blatant cheaters? You be the judge.

[+Harry Dolphin]

Locationless Caches were archived for 'not being actual geocaches'.  Signal The Frog did not meet the requirements for Locationless Caches.  Many geocaches have been archived for the CO not deleting logs that did not meet the requirements.  Hmm...  I have a photo of me meeting Signal The Frog.  But it did not meet the requirements.  It was before the cache was published.

[+thebruce0]

HQ isn't a geocacher, and since HQ makes the rules, they aren't bound in the same way that we are. In spirit, perhaps, but they certainly have the right to make special exceptions. That said, yeah, I would hope someone would do the dirty work of allowing only legitimate logs, as they implied would be the case... =/

 

My understanding was they'd have the FROG locked until known approved events where it could be logged by people with the proper photo, until a reasonable cutoff date. That way the logs could be verified and moderated. 

[Rock Chalk]

2 hours ago, thebruce0 said:

My understanding was they'd have the FROG locked until known approved events where it could be logged by people with the proper photo, until a reasonable cutoff date. That way the logs could be verified and moderated. 

 

Whoever told you that was misinformed, as that was never how it was to be set up. In a non-COVID world, Mega-Events would've been happening most weeks throughout 2020, and it would've been very inefficient (not to mention a huge pain for the community) if we constantly locked and unlocked GC8FROG.

 

We've done our best to remove non-compliant logs from GC8FROG, and will do the same for GC8NEAT. However, hard as we may try, it simply won't be possible to "catch" everyone who is determined to post a bogus log. We're not CSI Geocaching  There are always going to be at least a few people who (assuming best intentions) misunderstand the instructions, and yes, a few who seem to get a kick out of photoshopping old photos so they can log a Locationless. We're more focused on the thousands of people who have had a great experience logging GC8FROG in the intended way. We're hoping for the same with GC8NEAT.

[+thebruce0]

Thanks for chiming in @Rock Chalk Looking forward to finding opportunities to log them, hopefully both, this year!

 

ETA: ..I think I recall now. GC8FR0G was initially locked, but couldn't display in the app, so it was unlocked, and that raised a whole lot of chatter about locked caches in the app plus the unsanctioned activity on that one from false logs. But nothing about locking outside of official events. I stand/sit corrected 

Edited January 21, 2021 by thebruce0

[+funkymunkyzone]

So is GC8FROG going to be unlocked again at some point, or do I need to tell the people coming to our mega later this year that they won't be getting this one after all?

[+Bazonka]

And now the logs on GC8NEAT are coming in, it's clear that most are logging previous CITOs, some from as far back as 2018, and possibly further.

I hope Groundspeak deletes all of these spurious logs. There should be no place in geocaching for cheats, especially when it means that they're not going out and making an environmental difference with a genuine CITO activity

[+hzoi]

On 1/23/2021 at 3:54 AM, funkymunkyzone said:

So is GC8FROG going to be unlocked again at some point, or do I need to tell the people coming to our mega later this year that they won't be getting this one after all?

 

If you're on the organizing committee for a mega, I would recommend touching base with the Groundspeak mega event POCs, they'd have the latest.

 

I think it's telling that GC8FR0G is locked, not archived. I expect it'll be back in play.

 

On 2/6/2021 at 4:36 AM, Bazonka said:

And now the logs on GC8NEAT are coming in, it's clear that most are logging previous CITOs, some from as far back as 2018, and possibly further.

 

Disappointing, but not surprising.

 

I have a stretch of road in mind for our family CITO project, once the snow melts.

[+DreamMachine74]

4 hours ago, hzoi said:

 

Disappointing, but not surprising.

 

I have a stretch of road in mind for our family CITO project, once the snow melts.

That's very disappointing, but I guess people like to think they can be smart about it. I'll probably log it in spring or summer...an area with a large amount of my own caches is a frequent dumping site in one section, and also is host to invasive species like European Buckthorn, and Garlic Mustard (I can't tell you how much I dislike both species for their destructive and invasive nature).

 

(Oh, and no, my caches aren't hidden in trash, I made sure the caches are hidden in respectable locations...though I did have to relocate a  cache once due to this problem)

 

It'll be a good workout though finding garbage bins nearby will be tough.

Edited February 7, 2021 by DreamMachine74

[+thebruce0]

I'm waiting for a good opportunity to make a worthwhile log for GC8NEAT as well, and I want a legit new pic with Signal for GC8FR0G.  I don't understand the value people find in putting no effort into the log or task.  But this was not surprising. As they always say "cheaters will cheat [so it's not worth the effort to make it hard for them]"  (with which i don't agree =P)

[+Lynx Humble]

5 hours ago, thebruce0 said:

I'm waiting for a good opportunity to make a worthwhile log for GC8NEAT as well, and I want a legit new pic with Signal for GC8FR0G.  I don't understand the value people find in putting no effort into the log or task.  But this was not surprising. As they always say "cheaters will cheat [so it's not worth the effort to make it hard for them]"  (with which i don't agree =P)

HQ even had to lock GC8NEAT because of cheater... Why people cheat on a cache that you can log until Dec 31st when you just need to find a random trash is above me. People can't even wait a bit to get their +1 the right way ???

 

HQ log on GC8NEAT :

Thank you for the almost 2800 great logs and over 4300 images from your environmental improvement efforts around the world so far.

We are temporarily locking this cache due to the high volume of incomplete logs. It will be unlocked on Monday morning PST.

Please read the logging requirements carefully:

• Include one (1) photo of yourself or a personal item with the results of your outdoor improvement effort. At least one photo of your outdoor improvement is required to log this cache.
• Tell us where your improvement effort took place (for example, the city of Berlin).

Please post a complete log with the picture right away. Otherwise your log may be subject to deletion.

Due to the volume of logs we are unable to accommodate placeholders or logs promising that information or pictures will be added at a later point.

If you wish to discuss other topics surrounding GC8NEAT, please take such discussions to the Geocaching forums.

Thank you for your consideration and happy geocaching.

[+TeamRabbitRun]

11 minutes ago, tbbiker said:

I just found the Improve the Outdoors locationless cache this morning and it got me to thinking on what the older, archived locationless caches where like so I browsed some of them from geocachers who had been around during that early time period and found some. They all seemed pretty cool and the 20 or so that I checked out had over 600+ favorite points each.  Not sure why HQ just didn't grandfather those locationless caches so others could enjoy them in the future.  Seems like a killjoy to me.  Why archive a cache that has 600+ favorite points that geocachers are actually enjoying when there are MILLIONS of meaningless p&gs that are located at guard rails, street signs, and lamp posts that would have been a lot better archiving and would not have been missed.  Seems to me that that was a short-sighted decision on their part.

 

Because when you want to eliminate something from the game that for a set of reasons is problematic , you cut it and eventually the complaints dry up.

If you leave them floating around grandfathered, you have to re-litigate the reasoning over and over again through waves of resentment, disappointment and Monday-morning quarterbacking.

[+cerberus1]

58 minutes ago, tbbiker said:

I just found the Improve the Outdoors locationless cache this morning and it got me to thinking on what the older, archived locationless caches where like so I browsed some of them from geocachers who had been around during that early time period and found some.

They all seemed pretty cool and the 20 or so that I checked out had over 600+ favorite points each.  Not sure why HQ just didn't grandfather those locationless caches so others could enjoy them in the future.  Seems like a killjoy to me.  Why archive a cache that has 600+ favorite points that geocachers are actually enjoying when there are MILLIONS of meaningless p&gs that are located at guard rails, street signs, and lamp posts that would have been a lot better archiving and would not have been missed.  Seems to me that that was a short-sighted decision on their part.

Favorite Points weren't even a thing until 12/2010, well-after locationless were canned in 2005. 

Some probably added them much later.  We didn't on any locationless, but a lot on other cache types.  

So it wasn't like FPs were being added to those enjoyable finds real time...  It's now Waymarking ICYDK...

 

Some odd reason I can't see any of the locationless we did after the first page.  We found 85, and should have five viewable pages.

Edited February 8, 2021 by cerberus1

[+Harry Dolphin]

9 minutes ago, cerberus1 said:

Some odd reason I can't see any of the locationless we did after the first page.  We found 85, and should have five viewable pages.

 

Yes.  Very sad that they disabled being to check through Locationless Caches.

[+werla]

Just looked into GC8FR0G which has been enabled again. And the cheating continues...? Photo Shop, plushies, pictures of events long past, and so on. One of the geocachers even mixed it up with GC8NEAT, posting the picture of a daisy!

 

I would really like HQ to delete ALL these "creative" logs. It's really unfair to the people who logged according to the requirements.

Edited February 27, 2021 by werla