Cache only available once every week-ish

[+psychpineapple]

There is a new cache series that came out recently near where I live. It appears to be only available once a week. They all have their ftf's, but now they are all disabled, with a note on it saying they will only be 'releasing the coordinates every 7-10 days'. I believe that it is a series put out from the town that it is in. I actually just checked the forums to see if anyone asked. I don't want to be a spoil-sport, but I don't believe they are allowed to only have the caches available once a week.

[+L0ne.R]

Sounds like they didn't tell the reviewer that they were going to do this. A note to the reviewer might be necessary. 

[+K13]

Use a browser to view the disabled cache pages. Get the coordinates and find the caches as normal. Also, maybe send a note to the local Reviewer.

[+eigengott]

1 hour ago, psychpineapple said:

I don't believe they are allowed to only have the caches available once a week.

 

Relevant guideline: https://www.geocaching.com/play/guidelines#accessible

[+palmetto]

I've sent an email to the publishing reviewer. Looks like an enthusiastic hider with no idea that their plan is not quite right

[+NYPaddleCacher]

20 hours ago, palmetto said:

I've sent an email to the publishing reviewer. Looks like an enthusiastic hider with no idea that their plan is not quite right

 

Okay, if a cache that is only available once a week (for how long?) isn't "quite right", how about a cache that is only available certain times of the day (like many caches in town parks).  Assuming that is okay, where is the line drawn. 

 

The guideline stipulates "Caches must be available most of the week."   Does "most of the week" mean more than 84 hours or some amount of time on more than 3.5 days.  

 

At one time I considered placing a cache that had a stage  in a location that was only open to the public about 2 hours a day, M-F (no direct person interaction was required).   It would only be available about 10 hours a week, but would be available for two hours, five out the seven days in a week.

 

[+barefootjeff]

12 minutes ago, NYPaddleCacher said:

 

Okay, if a cache that is only available once a week (for how long?) isn't "quite right", how about a cache that is only available certain times of the day (like many caches in town parks).  Assuming that is okay, where is the line drawn. 

 

The guideline stipulates "Caches must be available most of the week."   Does "most of the week" mean more than 84 hours or some amount of time on more than 3.5 days.  

 

At one time I considered placing a cache that had a stage  in a location that was only open to the public about 2 hours a day, M-F (no direct person interaction was required).   It would only be available about 10 hours a week, but would be available for two hours, five out the seven days in a week.

 

 

Being on the coast, there are plenty of caches around here that have tidal access, being only accessible at either high or low water. Those are obviously okay, at least with the reviewers here, so my interpretation of the guideline would be along the lines of "most days of the week and for a fair proportion of each of those days". A cache that was only accessible between 10:59 and 11:00 each day probably wouldn't fly.

Edited January 12, 2021 by barefootjeff

[+sernikk]

13 minutes ago, NYPaddleCacher said:

It would only be available about 10 hours a week, but would be available for two hours, five out the seven days in a week.

 

I think that would be okay, as it is available most of the week (5/7 days). The interpretation may vary, but I think that's the right way to understand it.

[+igator210]

21 minutes ago, NYPaddleCacher said:

 

Okay, if a cache that is only available once a week (for how long?) isn't "quite right", how about a cache that is only available certain times of the day (like many caches in town parks).  Assuming that is okay, where is the line drawn. 

 

 

I think the line is how much control the CO is flexing. 

If a cache is placed in an area with known, consistent and posted times, I can plan ahead and I'd be ok with that. If the CO is, as the OP posted: 'releasing the coordinates every 7-10 days', its the luck of the draw of when the cache is available.

Edited January 12, 2021 by igator210

[+eigengott]

34 minutes ago, NYPaddleCacher said:

The guideline stipulates "Caches must be available most of the week."   Does "most of the week" mean more than 84 hours or some amount of time on more than 3.5 days.

 

Neither. It does mean "most of the week". This allows for some flex.

 

As for your example (2 hours, 5 days a week) I'd probably not publish as it is too restrictive. On the other hand, a multi cache where one of the stages is visible only for one minute every ten minutes, would probably be OK (depending on HQs consent), even though it technically is available only 1/10th of a week. But you can go there any time and in the worst case have to wait for ten minutes. Caches with tidal access are also a good example for the flex.

[+thebruce0]

I think in a case where the CO controls who and when people actually get coordinates - that's a line crossed. Availability of a cache where the CO themselves don't directly control access (posted times/dates), that's different. It's just like puzzles disallowed if they require speaking to someone or reliant on the activity of another person. If one can only find the cache if the CO gives them coordinates (even at disclaimed times) getting them relies on the direct action of the CO. I can't see that being an allowable strategy... =/

[+JL_HSTRE]

On 1/11/2021 at 3:32 PM, psychpineapple said:

There is a new cache series that came out recently near where I live. It appears to be only available once a week. They all have their ftf's, but now they are all disabled, with a note on it saying they will only be 'releasing the coordinates every 7-10 days'.

 

I'm confused what this even means. Are these Traditional where they planning to move the containers weekly and post new coordinates? (For a whole series? I expect it wont take the CO long to get tired of doing that.) Or Mystery where the CO expects people to contact them for the coords?

 

Now if they're doing a series of caches but only releasing one new caches in the series each week that's another matter entirely.

[+Mysterion604]

3 hours ago, thebruce0 said:

I think in a case where the CO controls who and when people actually get coordinates - that's a line crossed.

 

 

My first question was "is this some sort of event cache" ?

 

I have wondered whether there exists a sort of "limited edition" sort of cache, where it is released for X amount of time then archived after a set amount of time, as some sort of promotional [probably tourism related] thing. For example, an Olympics multi-cache that might only exist around the area where the Olympics are taking place, perhaps only during the year when it takes place. 

 

However, the case the OP describes does sound like what thebruce0 has mentioned (quoted). Seems unethical if it's controlled in a way where only a select group of people (personally notified by the CO) get a chance to log it. 

 

 

[+niraD]

10 minutes ago, mysterion604 said:

I have wondered whether there exists a sort of "limited edition" sort of cache, where it is released for X amount of time then archived after a set amount of time, as some sort of promotional [probably tourism related] thing. For example, an Olympics multi-cache that might only exist around the area where the Olympics are taking place, perhaps only during the year when it takes place. 

From the guidelines: "Temporary caches intended to stay active for fewer than three months will not be published."

[+psychpineapple]

The caches are all trads, and it just says that they will 'release the coords'. Since it is a series of over 5 caches, I assume that they are still in place, just disabled. The CO doesn't have any finds, but of course that's just the account. Maybe it is allowed because it lists the town name website on the message, so it is special for the town.

This is what the disable notes say. 

As a part of a get active campaign to encourage people to stay active this winter and to hopefully introduce new people to geocaching we will be releasing these coordinates every 7-10 days. Please visit (townname)/geocaching as of January 15 for regular updates. Thank you for your continued enthusiasm.

Edited January 13, 2021 by psychpineapple

[+TriciaG]

What's funny is that disabling a cache doesn't make the coordinates disappear for those on certain apps and on the website. So their method is moot. Go find the caches while they're disabled.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

13 minutes ago, TriciaG said:

What's funny is that disabling a cache doesn't make the coordinates disappear for those on certain apps and on the website. So their method is moot. Go find the caches while they're disabled.

 

Maybe the website/api *should* hide the coordinates when a cache is disabled.   It wouldn't prevent someone from finding the cache if they'd already downloaded the coordinates to their device, but it would prevent apps which obtain cache data in real time via the API from being able to navigate to the cache.  

[+thebruce0]

Just had a thought. What if they "published" the listings before the caches are placed, and by "released every 7-10 days" they mean each cache in the series will become available one at a time over the course of every 7-10 days. It sounds like it could be a series being released over time. But they may not understand that the cache should be placed when the listing is published, and the coordinates are readily available to any who can see the listing.

If the containers aren't (yet) placed at least the listings are disabled... but still.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

On 1/12/2021 at 3:37 PM, eigengott said:

 

Neither. It does mean "most of the week". This allows for some flex.

 

As for your example (2 hours, 5 days a week) I'd probably not publish as it is too restrictive. On the other hand, a multi cache where one of the stages is visible only for one minute every ten minutes, would probably be OK (depending on HQs consent), even though it technically is available only 1/10th of a week. But you can go there any time and in the worst case have to wait for ten minutes. Caches with tidal access are also a good example for the flex.

 

That's too bad.  In this case, the stage would have been up in a clock/bell tower that was open from 12-2pm for a daily chimes concert.   I've gone up the 165 steps a couple of times and not only is it a very unique experience to be in the room as chimes are being played but the view is spectacular.   

[+dprovan]

9 hours ago, NYPaddleCacher said:

Maybe the website/api *should* hide the coordinates when a cache is disabled.   It wouldn't prevent someone from finding the cache if they'd already downloaded the coordinates to their device, but it would prevent apps which obtain cache data in real time via the API from being able to navigate to the cache.  

This is one of those things, the difference between something being an order vs. it being information. I prefer expecting people to be responsible, so if they stupidly go for a cache disabled for good reason, that's on them, but because it's information, I can, for example, see that the construction that closed off access to GZ is over, so, in that case, my Find log will be a heads up to the owner that he can reenable it.

 

41 minutes ago, NYPaddleCacher said:

That's too bad.  In this case, the stage would have been up in a clock/bell tower that was open from 12-2pm for a daily chimes concert.   I've gone up the 165 steps a couple of times and not only is it a very unique experience to be in the room as chimes are being played but the view is spectacular.   

Yes, that's definitely too bad. I agree completely with why they won't allow it, but, on the other hand, one of my favorite caches was an old, grandfathered cache that can only be found between 1 and 4 on "most" Sundays. Not only was it a unique experience that I never, ever would have had were it not for the cache, I really enjoyed the challenge of organizing a trip so I was there at just the right time. I wish the chimes cache could be allowed, but I also understand why it won't be.

[+Wadcutter]

If you can pull up these 2 archived caches.  GC3TJBN and GC3TJAK.  

Both of these were set up by a junior college instructor and only for his class.  If the way they are written was the way they were submitted for reviewer approval it's hard to believe they were ever approved and obviously should have never been approved.  There were hints only provided to the class and no one else making it impossible for anyone else to find.  The instructor intended to activate these caches only certain days during each semester.  When legitimate cachers questioned these caches the cache owner sent private messages which were not at all professional.  Finally a reviewer permanently archived both of them.