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Uprisings category


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I'm writing here to get some opinions about an idea that came to me recently.

 

When I started creating waymarks for my area (lets say Poland overall) I was adding some of the monuments regarding the Warsaw Uprising. There are a lot of these in Warsaw and not only there. Of course as it was during the WW2, I added them to the proper category World War II Memorials / Monuments. But when I was thinking about it, I thought something is not right. When looking through various memorials in this category, they are mostly related to the global conflict itself and to various big fights which took place, where a lot of soldiers died. The uprising is a little different though. Poland was occupied, and regular people just fought for they own freedom.

 

And to be clear, there were also other Uprisings in different time and different countries.

Examples: Greater Poland Uprising (1848), November Uprising (1830), Warsaw Ghetto Uprising (1943), June Uprising (in Lithuania, 1941), Prague uprising (Czech Rep., 1945) and many more.

I would also like to say that places and monuments related to such events that took place in Poland, are very important to us Poles and are the core of our national identity.

 

Some may say that these events fit into the Monuments of the Eastern Freedomfights, but uprisings weren't a fight against communism which this category is for, but against an occupant.

There is also a category Political Revolutions, but none of these was a political fight, these were fights for independency.

 

So what do you think about a category for places related to Uprisings overall? Can such a thematic part be separated? Should it be expanded a little more? Would it have the chance to past the peer review?

 

I would like to hear your thoughts.

Thanks

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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SernikkI think that, overall, your idea has merit, which is why I am about to suggest the following.

 

I see that Monuments of the Eastern Freedomfights no longer has any active members, with our Wayfroggie doing the approvals for the last year or so.

I'm willing to guess that you can see where I feel this should lead.

It would require taking over the group, changing the name and appropriately rewriting the text to include worldwide freedom fights against ALL aggressors, tyrants and autocrats. This approach is almost certain to be the one least likely to elicit opposition, maledictions & opprobrium. Heck, even Tom might not get his nose out of joint over this one. LOLOLOLOL

:)(Sorry, Tom. Just couldn't help myself.):)

 

Keith

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21 minutes ago, ScroogieII said:

SernikkI think that, overall, your idea has merit, which is why I am about to suggest the following.

 

I see that Monuments of the Eastern Freedomfights no longer has any active members, with our Wayfroggie doing the approvals for the last year or so.

I'm willing to guess that you can see where I feel this should lead.

It would require taking over the group, changing the name and appropriately rewriting the text to include worldwide freedom fights against ALL aggressors, tyrants and autocrats. This approach is almost certain to be the one least likely to elicit opposition, maledictions & opprobrium. Heck, even Tom might not get his nose out of joint over this one. LOLOLOLOL

:)(Sorry, Tom. Just couldn't help myself.):)

 

Keith

 

This would be excellent and most welcome. But it will be hard to stay out of the Political Revolutions (a category I never approved as it is) scope. 

Edited by Torgut
Updating with a new idea
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10 minutes ago, Torgut said:

 

This would be excellent and most welcome. But it will be hard to stay out of the Political Revolutions (a category I never approved as it is) scope. 

 

Excellent point, Torgut. I initially thought sernikk's idea might already be covered by Political Revolutions, but after further reading discovered that it will not accept struggles against Communism.

But I agree, there may well be potential overlaps between Political Revolutions and Monuments of the Eastern Freedomfights if the latter were to be expanded. It's the price we pay for inclusion vs exclusion.

 

Keith

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On 12/12/2020 at 11:47 PM, ScroogieII said:

SernikkI think that, overall, your idea has merit, which is why I am about to suggest the following.

 

I see that Monuments of the Eastern Freedomfights no longer has any active members, with our Wayfroggie doing the approvals for the last year or so.

I'm willing to guess that you can see where I feel this should lead.

It would require taking over the group, changing the name and appropriately rewriting the text to include worldwide freedom fights against ALL aggressors, tyrants and autocrats. This approach is almost certain to be the one least likely to elicit opposition, maledictions & opprobrium. Heck, even Tom might not get his nose out of joint over this one. LOLOLOLOL

:)(Sorry, Tom. Just couldn't help myself.):)

 

Keith

 

That idea would be an optimal solution, but would lead to other problems. I don't know if thats okay to just go into a category and set it the way we like, without any approval from the leader or officers (despite them being not active). I mean very similar thing was done with the Shop24 category (or will be done in the next days), but that is something different - the change is marginal.

 

I think fights against communism (current EF - Monuments of the Eastern Freedomfights) are indeed different, than the idea of an uprising, but they are very close to the Political Revolutions category. The problem is also the name of the EF, which suggests that it concerns all fights for the freedom of Eastern Europe, when in fact it only concerns the concrete ones - those directed against communism. I understand why, but that should overlap with Policital Revolutions category already, which is not accepting communism .

 

So pushing another idea into this would make it even more abstruse. Also, imagine we can somehow merge Uprisings topic with EF. What could we do about the inactive members of that group? We can't just kick them out of their own group and try to take it over in a way. Of course we could give some new people the "officer" rank, but I think it would be hard to control the group from the backseat or only through the wm admin. It can also be a problem later, when the group members log in and realize what happened

 

 

Edited by sernikk
crossing out unnecessary thoughts ;)
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32 minutes ago, sernikk said:

 

That idea would be an optimal solution, but would lead to other problems. I don't know if thats okay to just go into a category and set it the way we like, without any approval from the leader or officers (despite them being not active). I mean very similar thing was done with the Shop24 category (or will be done in the next days), but that is something different - the change is marginal.

 

I think fights against communism (current EF - Monuments of the Eastern Freedomfights) are indeed different, than the idea of an uprising, but they are very close to the Political Revolutions category. The problem is also the name of the EF, which suggests that it concerns all fights for the freedom of Eastern Europe, when in fact it only concerns the concrete ones - those directed against communism. I understand why, but that is an overlap with Policital Revolutions already.

 

So pushing another idea into this would make it even more abstruse. Also, imagine we can somehow merge Uprisings topic with EF. What could we do about the inactive members of that group? We can't just kick them out of their own group and try to take it over in a way. Of course we could give some new people the "officer" rank, but I think it would be hard to control the group from the backseat or only through the wm admin. It can also be a problem later, when the group members log in and realize what happened :D

 

 

 

 

My Polish friend, what was written is that this category is currently abandoned, as its officers/leader has not being active for a long time. So, yes, it is OK. It's not the first time it happens. Nor the second. Nor the tenth :-) It's a relatively common procedure.

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7 minutes ago, Torgut said:

My Polish friend, what was written is that this category is currently abandoned, as its officers/leader has not being active for a long time. So, yes, it is OK. It's not the first time it happens. Nor the second. Nor the tenth :-) It's a relatively common procedure.

 

Thanks for the clarification, I wasn't fully aware of that. I can only feel stupid now :unsure:

I also found a mistake in my understanding of the whole difference between Political Revolutions and the Eastern Freedomfights category. So let's pretend my first reply doesn't exist.

 

If as you say there is a possibility to just merge the whole topic of Uprisings into the currently existing category, with having control over it by the WMadmin or others, then I think that makes a lot of sense.

 

 

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Sernikk, I believe you should listen to Torgut. As he related, the takeover of abandoned categories isn't at all uncommon. It is really the only way of revitalizing and reinvigorating categories which continue to elicit submissions, indicating ongoing interest within the community. Further, it reduces the Wayfroggie's workload somewhat.

 

Control needn't pass to WMAdmin. It's not that difficult to recruit officers and vote to have a new leader installed. At present open enrollment in Monuments of the Eastern Freedomfights is OFF. One would need Wayfroggie's assistance there. Also, the Wayfroggie can assist with renaming the category, if desired.

 

Besides, such a project could provide one with "gainful entertainment" through these long winter months. :) :D

 

Keith

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It should be noted here that, save for two small exceptions, the categories Political Revolutions and Monuments of the Eastern Freedomfights are essentially identical.

The first exception is the use of the word "communist" in Monuments of the Eastern Freedomfights.

The second is the acceptance of "Memorials, Locations or Historical Places" in the Political Revolutions category, while only "monuments" are presently accepted in Monuments of the Eastern Freedomfights.

Otherwise, they appear to be redundant.

 

Keith

 

 

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So as I see the category got revived in a way, lumbricus is an officer now and the category owner even published some WM's. Sadly he didn't respond to any of my messages, so I guess the possibility of changing the category in the desired way is currently impossible.

 

Today I was going through photos of mine taken in the last 2 months, some were regarding The Greater Poland Uprising from 1918-1919:

 

Screenshot_12.thumb.jpg.8aff850ce6806e679dac034939590cc0.jpg

 

This could go into the Non-specific Veteran Memorials right, or maybe Specific Wars Monuments and Memorials, but this wasn't exactly a war.

 

obraz.png.246d681376365b1e8c5956bf44e9eaeb.png

 

..and this into the Specific Veteran Memorials (Franciszek Ratajczak).

 

The real question is if this is the desired way to do so? As I said eariler, such events that took place in Poland (and not only Poland), are very important to us as the nation and are the core of our national identity. I think a separate category may be nice but also making it redundant seems just wrong. On the other way such category would then be excluded from the listed above, as it is now with many war-related ones.

 

If anyone has any idea, comment or a proposal to that topic, I will be glad to hear it. If there are still voices that making a new category is not the right way, let be it :)

 

 

 

 

 

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Just now, razalas said:

If this wasn't exactly a war, maybe this could go into the Political Revolutions Category .

 

It probably could, but as I mentioned in the original post, "none of these was a political fight, these were fights for independency". I think the category of Political Revolutions is focusing on overthrows of political systems, while uprisings were against occupation (invasion in a way), so it's different. On the other hand I would rather fit such waymarks into this category than none, but I think the officers may have a different view on that (or maybe not? ;)). As I said, on some levels it is completely different.

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