Reporting TB's "missing" that are not in listed cache.. is it worth it?

[+mysterion604]

OK, I am new to the hobby so bear with me here...

Looking at a map of my local area*, I can find what caches TB's supposedly are in fairly easily, but the problem is in actuality, maybe 1/2 or 2/3 of the time, the trackable listed in the inventory is not actually in there. Usually in such caches, there are no TB's. 

When I log such a cache, I usually state that the listed TB's are not there, but beyond that, how does one rectify all the missing TB's,  so that the caches no longer have false readings in their inventories?

Other than sending a message to the TB owner, is there a way to report a TB as "missing", or can only an owner (of either the TB or the cache) do that?

 

More importantly, is there a point to a cacher trying to do so? It would be nice to "clean up" / rectify erroneous listings, and cast missing TB's into some sort of limbo, but I also get the feeling that if there was a simple and effective solution to false listings of missing TBs, it would already be common practice.

 

What are your thoughts on this? My n00b self needs to know; perhaps I am OCD because false inventory counts seem to bother me more than they should.

 

*I use cGeo most of the time when I'm out in the field, so your experiences may vary from mine.

 

Edited December 2, 2020 by mysterion604

[+lee737]

48 minutes ago, mysterion604 said:

Other than sending a message to the TB owner, is there a way to report a TB as "missing", or can only an owner (of either the TB or the cache) do that?

No...

I will message the CO/TO if TBs are missing, as I appreciate that being done for ours, and I'll mark them missing unless it appears someone has just picked it up.

Adding a TB stocktake report or similar to your log can't hurt - it makes TO's life easier trying to work out if a TB is missing or not too....

[+cerberus1]

1 hour ago, mysterion604 said:

OK, I am new to the hobby so bear with me here...

Looking at a map of my local area*, I can find what caches TB's supposedly are in fairly easily, but the problem is in actuality, maybe 1/2 or 2/3 of the time, the trackable listed in the inventory is not actually in there. Usually in such caches, there are no TB's. 

When I log such a cache, I usually state that the listed TB's are not there, but beyond that, how does one rectify all the missing TB's,  so that the caches no longer have false readings in their inventories?

 

Other than sending a message to the TB owner, is there a way to report a TB as "missing", or can only an owner (of either the TB or the cache) do that?

 

More importantly, is there a point to a cacher trying to do so? It would be nice to "clean up" / rectify erroneous listings, and cast missing TB's into some sort of limbo, but I also get the feeling that if there was a simple and effective solution to false listings of missing TBs, it would already be common practice.

What are your thoughts on this? My n00b self needs to know; perhaps I am OCD because false inventory counts seem to bother me more than they should.

 

We've noticed numerous logging errors ever since '09, when phones became popular.  Not sure if that means anything.  

We mention that no trackables were found in our logs too.  

On our own caches, we've found trackables after someone claimed they weren't there as well.  

Not caching like I used to, I discover a lot of trackables, leaving helpful information on where I found it.

 - About half the time, the TO deletes my log (thinking it's a "virtual" fake), so sometimes you can't win.

 

Only trackable owners, cache owners, and IIRC Reviewers can mark trackables missing.  Sometimes that's the reason there are issues...

 

Groundspeak has an algorithm gizmo that they use once-in-a-while to get them "fixed", and our Reviewers even check time-to-time and mark 'em missing too. 

[+dprovan]

As a seeker, you report what you saw: you couldn't find the TB in the cache. You do this by mentioning it in the find log and, more importantly, by posting a note on the TB's page. You don't really know it's "missing" because there could be some other explanation, and it's not your job to rule all the other explanation's out, mainly because you really can't.

 

Should you file those logs? Feel free, but it's not a requirement. If I notice a TB isn't in the cache, I'll typically note in my find long, and I'll post the note to the TB's page if no one else has mention it yet. But no big deal if you don't, and I admit that sometimes I don't bother.

 

[+mysterion604]

On 12/1/2020 at 10:50 PM, dprovan said:

As a seeker, you report what you saw: you couldn't find the TB in the cache. You do this by mentioning it in the find log and, more importantly, by posting a note on the TB's page. You don't really know it's "missing" because there could be some other explanation, and it's not your job to rule all the other explanation's out, mainly because you really can't.

 

Should you file those logs? Feel free, but it's not a requirement. If I notice a TB isn't in the cache, I'll typically note in my find long, and I'll post the note to the TB's page if no one else has mention it yet. But no big deal if you don't, and I admit that sometimes I don't bother.

 

 

 

Okay. Well, I see what you mean. With all the phantom TB's around, it would be a big job, but I am sorely tempted to do it anyways, to go backto all my cache finds and post notes on all the TB's that were not really there.

 

 

 

[+cerberus1]

12 hours ago, mysterion604 said:

Okay. Well, I see what you mean. With all the phantom TB's around, it would be a big job, but I am sorely tempted to do it anyways, to go backto all my cache finds and post notes on all the TB's that were not really there.

 

I guess if you have plenty of spare time...      

Rather than back-dating your own logs though, I feel it'd make more sense to leave a Write Note on the trackables page.

 -  It's owner would see it there...

[+mysterion604]

On 12/11/2020 at 1:18 PM, cerberus1 said:

 

I guess if you have plenty of spare time...      

Rather than back-dating your own logs though, I feel it'd make more sense to leave a Write Note on the trackables page.

 -  It's owner would see it there...

 

Yes, I think I would try to put the note on the TB page. It definitely sounds like a lot of work, but if I do it, I'd consider it a community service  effort.

 

 

[+XHawk]

If one of my caches gets the "TB listed is missing" report, I will mark the TB as "Missing". There is a CO in my area that has a TB Hotel, but when I have messaged the CO that TB's are missing, I get no response. The old lead the horse to water, but can't make the horse drink it scenario. 

 

I will report what TB's are missing in caches that I visit; I'm sure the next looker would like to know.

[+TriciaG]

1 hour ago, XHawk said:

If one of my caches gets the "TB listed is missing" report, I will mark the TB as "Missing". There is a CO in my area that has a TB Hotel, but when I have messaged the CO that TB's are missing, I get no response. The old lead the horse to water, but can't make the horse drink it scenario. 

 

I will report what TB's are missing in caches that I visit; I'm sure the next looker would like to know.

Commendable!

You can also post a note on the pages of the TBs themselves. If the TB owners are still active, they will get notification and may mark the TB as missing. I did that recently due to a note on my TB's page.

[+kunarion]

44 minutes ago, TriciaG said:

Commendable!

You can also post a note on the pages of the TBs themselves. If the TB owners are still active, they will get notification and may mark the TB as missing. I did that recently due to a note on my TB's page.

That’s what I’ve done, added a note to the TB’s page with info on how hard I searched.  If it’s in a TB Hotel with a lot of compartments and piles of junk, at least the tag may still be there.  If it’s a laminated piece of paper, I might have overlooked it.  Some cachers take months to update their logs.

 

I post photos of a TB in there and log Discover.  Sometimes it became a piece of paper, but the page shows a metal coin.  Often, attachments changed or are gone.

 

I never assume it needs to be Marked Missing.  That’s best left to the TO.  If it was my TB, I might be in contact with the Taker, and they “will bring it to Florida next month”.  Such info may not be on the TB page.  Marking it Missing adds a layer of complexity  to the Taker’s logs, a person who already seems overwhelmed by the suggestion to “place it in a cache”. 

 

 

Edited January 15 by kunarion

[+cerberus1]

40 minutes ago, kunarion said:

I never assume it needs to be Marked Missing.  That’s best left to the TO.  If it was my TB, I might be in contact with the Taker, and they “will bring it to Florida next month”.  Such info may not be on the TB page.  Marking it Missing adds a layer of complexity  to the Taker’s logs, a person who already seems overwhelmed by the suggestion to “place it in a cache”. 

 

Yep, agreed.      

We've found dozens of trackables that were supposed to be "missing" from our caches, and while "looking" at others. 

Most found at the bottom of ammo cans, mixed with swag, or the "toy" gone, with just a tag that gets missed.    

Some odd reason,  a good amount of coins have been stuck to the lids.  Folks open/close many times, and never seem to spot 'em.  

 

It's entirely possible that a person took it to move along minutes before someone logging on their phone says "trackable not in cache" too.

I and many others still use a GPSr, and log when we get home (maybe a couple days later if on vacation...).  

I've been out of the hobby for some time, know many who were worse off than me , so not going to assume that "no response" means anything other than the TO isn't available now.

As CO,  I'll only mark it missing when I get no notice from the TO for quite a while, or at maintenance checking the cache myself.

 

 

[+kunarion]

38 minutes ago, cerberus1 said:

Yep, agreed.      

We've found dozens of trackables that were supposed to be "missing" from our caches, and while "looking" at others. 

Most found at the bottom of ammo cans, mixed with swag, or the "toy" gone, with just a tag that gets missed.    

Some odd reason,  a good amount of coins have been stuck to the lids.  Folks open/close many times, and never seem to spot 'em.  

 

It's entirely possible that a person took it to move along minutes before someone logging on their phone says "trackable not in cache" too.

I and many others still use a GPSr, and log when we get home (maybe a couple days later if on vacation...).  

I've been out of the hobby for some time, know many who were worse off than me , so not going to assume that "no response" means anything other than the TO isn't available now.

As CO,  I'll only mark it missing when I get no notice from the TO for quite a while, or at maintenance checking the cache myself.

 

+1

 

One thing I try to be careful about is the wording of my log.  Something like, "I didn't see this TB in the container", rather than "It's not there".  Because I once mentioned that a TB wasn't in a container, and then the person who placed it wrote to tell me it was a tiny "Signal The Frog" tag attached to nothing.  It was in fact underneath the matted trash in the bottom of the box.

 

I also try not to be "that guy" who's always there "when all the TBs disappeared".  In fact, I was the first person to provide a proper inventory, but OK.  Whatever.  

 

OTOH, I don't mark TBs missing just because someone other than the TB Owner needs it to happen.  What's the rush?  At worst, somecacher arrives and doesn't get to take that nice Geocoin and then promptly place it and log it into another cache like he had planned. 

 

Edited January 15 by kunarion

[+dprovan]

On 1/14/2021 at 2:23 PM, XHawk said:

If one of my caches gets the "TB listed is missing" report, I will mark the TB as "Missing".

I'll only mark the TB as missing if I go look and confirm for myself that it's not there.

[+mysterion604]

On 1/14/2021 at 6:30 PM, kunarion said:

 

One thing I try to be careful about is the wording of my log.  Something like, "I didn't see this TB in the container", rather than "It's not there".  Because I once mentioned that a TB wasn't in a container, and then the person who placed it wrote to tell me it was a tiny "Signal The Frog" tag attached to nothing.  It was in fact underneath the matted trash in the bottom of the box.

 

I also try not to be "that guy" who's always there "when all the TBs disappeared".  In fact, I was the first person to provide a proper inventory, but OK.  Whatever.  

 

OTOH, I don't mark TBs missing just because someone other than the TB Owner needs it to happen.  What's the rush?  At worst, somecacher arrives and doesn't get to take that nice Geocoin and then promptly place it and log it into another cache like he had planned. 

 

 

 

This is my fear when I've gone to a cache and logged it, only to realize after the fact there was supposed to be a TB inside it. "Was it really not there? Or did I just not search the cache well enough?" is the question I always ask myself, especially with the tiny ones or which look like dollar-store kiddie swag. TB dog tags are a dead giveaway, but I mean I'm carrying a geocoin right now that's so small it could be mistaken for a shirt button or the top of a cufflink. 

 

[+mysterion604]

I should note however, that I did finally end up PM-ing all the owners of trackables that I did not find in my caching experiences thus far. Luckily I have only 300+ finds, not 3000+, so aside from running into a messaging limit, it gone done quickly enough. Now that this task is done, I can just report missing TB's one at a time. I think I've received a positive response so far, being replied to by quite a few of the TO's I contacted.

 

It's not like I'm chasing ones which have been supposedly dropped in a cache just recently. I checked in every case to make sure that people have logged the listed cache multiple times (without retrieval) since the TB was dropped in it, and checked the TB listings to make sure it was not getting discovered or grabbed anywhere else. I also make sure that a "not in the listed cache" note was posted on the TB log by me or someone else. (Some of these are TB's that haven't been discovered or retrieved for over 500 days, while the caches they are listed in have meanwhile been logged dozens of times. Or TB's listed in caches that are archived and cannot possibly be physically there anymore.) 

 

I think now that the big task is done, I can just look forward to just doing such "due diligence" notifications one by one as they occur in the field. The local map will clear up a bit, which is of general help. 

Besides, what's the worst that can happen? If someone finds a TB that's listed as missing, and either retrieves it or discovers it, then it is no longer missing. 

 

Edited January 31 by mysterion604
(for additional clarity)

[+cerberus1]

Today I got word in a grab log that the trackable I marked missing, as per others, was found sitting in the same cache I put it in two years later.

It was the first trackable the new finder's seen ...

[+shellbadger]

I keep records on all my trackables so I really appreciate it when someone notes one is absent.  It saves me from annually going through all the logs of those that have not moved in more than a year.  I can just mark it missing.  If it shows up again, no harm done...I just replace the "missing" entry with the next drop-off date.  I ignore discoveries as increasingly meaningless.

[+cerberus1]

8 minutes ago, shellbadger said:

 I ignore discoveries as increasingly meaningless.

 

That's too bad...    

I have little time now to cache, so my helpful Discover logs tell you which cache they're now housed in.

Not interested in numbers, so will take the time to actually search for it too.

Not only will I give the name of the event that I saw your "missing" trackable in with a box of other people's property "shared" at events, but will even give you the name of the shady maggot who's claiming them all theirs...