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Persoons

Cache en covid

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Hoi iedereen,

mijn familie en ik doe normaal altijd om de twee weken nakijken.

en drie caches hebben nu problemen.

maar ik kan niet gaan nakijken omdat we het covid virus hebben op gelopen.

hoe moet ik het nu doen want we zitten zeker nog twee weken vast.

groetjes persoons

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Ik zou zeggen: tijdelijk uitschakelen en de reden en tijdsduur erbij zetten.

Of een bevriende cacher vragen om te gaan kijken.

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58 minutes ago, Persoons said:

Hi everyone,
my family and I normally always check every two weeks.
and three caches are now having problems.
but i can't check because we got the covid virus.
how am I supposed to do it now because we will be stuck for at least another two weeks.

Google Translate. :)

 

Are they serious problems (cache reported as damaged, for example) or just suspicions (cache might be missing, but might not)?

 

If they are serious problems, temporarily disable the listing and mention that you are unable to check for a couple weeks due to Covid.  If they are just suspicions, you can either temporarily disable, or just post a note that you'll check on it when you can.

 

Or like Stef said, maybe there's someone you know who could check on them for you. :)

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On 10/27/2020 at 3:54 PM, Persoons said:

Hoi iedereen,

mijn familie en ik doe normaal altijd om de twee weken nakijken.

en drie caches hebben nu problemen.

maar ik kan niet gaan nakijken omdat we het covid virus hebben op gelopen.

hoe moet ik het nu doen want we zitten zeker nog twee weken vast.

groetjes persoons

 

I wish you a speedy recovery from this awful virus. I also commend you for being concerned of spreading it to others! I would temporarily disable it until your covid-19 tests come back negative. Then check on it. Reviewers are very understanding today about the length of time you can disable a cache hide due to this pandemic.  We had to disable a cache until we were out of self-isolation in another state staying with relatives. We didn't have the virus but self-isolated to be on the safe side. But the question is...should you give the reason why you're disabling your caches if you decide to go that route?  If you disable them, it's because you have the virus and can't check on them. What regulations does Geocache headquarters have on this?  Do cachers have a right to know if a CO has Covid-19 before deciding to find their cache? It's an interesting situation. 

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1 hour ago, HunterandSamuel said:

Do cachers have a right to know if a CO has Covid-19 before deciding to find their cache?

Do cachers have a right to know if a CO has any other disease? I thought medical privacy laws protected such information in most countries.

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5 minutes ago, niraD said:

Do cachers have a right to know if a CO has any other disease? I thought medical privacy laws protected such information in most countries.

 

 

Since geocache hides have  been postponed during the pandemic due to this highly contagious and debilitating virus, it's an interesting question I asked. Sorry if you feel differently. 

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Since niraD decided to take a sentence of mine out of context, here's my full post. 

 

I wish you a speedy recovery from this awful virus. I also commend you for being concerned of spreading it to others! I would temporarily disable it until your covid-19 tests come back negative. Then check on it. Reviewers are very understanding today about the length of time you can disable a cache hide due to this pandemic.  We had to disable a cache until we were out of self-isolation in another state staying with relatives. We didn't have the virus but self-isolated to be on the safe side. But the question is...should you give the reason why you're disabling your caches if you decide to go that route?  If you disable them, it's because you have the virus and can't check on them. What regulations does Geocache headquarters have on this?  Do cachers have a right to know if a CO has Covid-19 before deciding to find their cache? It's an interesting situation. 

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1 minute ago, HunterandSamuel said:

Since niraD decided to take a sentence of mine out of context, here's my full post. 

Why do you think the context changes the question? Do cachers have a right to know if a CO has any disease? COVID? AIDS? Sickle cell anemia? Cancer?

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Just now, niraD said:

Why do you think the context changes the question? Do cachers have a right to know if a CO has any disease? COVID? AIDS? Sickle cell anemia? Cancer?

 

Whoosh. Me thinks you are looking for an argument. I stand by what I said. I'm not in a debate mood. Reread what I said, it went over your head. 

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The question is...during this pandemic and if we contracted covid-19 and can't maintain our caches, should we disable the caches but give the reason why we disabled them or not give the reason why we disable them? 

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23 minutes ago, HunterandSamuel said:

The question is...during this pandemic and if we contracted covid-19 and can't maintain our caches, should we disable the caches but give the reason why we disabled them or not give the reason why we disable them? 

I thought the question was...

1 hour ago, HunterandSamuel said:

Do cachers have a right to know if a CO has Covid-19 before deciding to find their cache?

 

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15 minutes ago, niraD said:

Why do you think the context changes the question? Do cachers have a right to know if a CO has any disease? COVID? AIDS? Sickle cell anemia? Cancer?

Veering OT, but Yep.

Common sense has a lot to do with this...   

We know a couple with worse than this virus.  Though most would need an open wound to present an issue, they are caching and own caches.

We've used hand sanitizer and/or towelettes since we've started, because we're aware this virus isn't the only thing out there.    :)

 - There's enough bacterium and molds in the ground  to realize this virus is just another thing.

We've never seen anyone at packed events in the Winter concerned at all with someone possibly having the flu...  Go figure. 

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Let me repeat: Since geocache hides have  been postponed during the pandemic due to this highly contagious and debilitating virus, it's an interesting question I asked. 

 

PS: has any other virus stopped Geocaching headquarters from publishing geocache hides? 

 

It's sad that some here like to debate just for the sake of debating. The pandemic is a great concern. 

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I'll answer my own question. If I contracted Covid-19 and can not maintain my cache hides that logs say needs maintenance, would I disable them and state the reason why? It's a tough question. I would go by what geocaching headquarters say. But what if headquarters have yet to make a decision on this because it's all so new? What if I said I have covid-19. My worry is no one would want to find my cache  hides even if I tested negative. I did admit to being in self-isolation. A huge difference and taking responsibility. I guess I'll leave it up to geocaching.com and their regulations. 

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4 minutes ago, HunterandSamuel said:

My worry is no one would want to find my cache  hides even if I tested negative.

Yeah, people do silly things for silly reasons.

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Just now, niraD said:

Yeah, people do silly things for silly reasons.

 

I see you didn't answer my posts. Your immaturity is noted. Again, your weak attempts to draw me in as failed. But my haven't. :-)

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2 hours ago, HunterandSamuel said:

But the question is...should you give the reason why you're disabling your caches if you decide to go that route? 

Your choice.
 

Quote

If you disable them, it's because you have the virus and can't check on them. What regulations does Geocache headquarters have on this? 

GCHQ has no regulations on this. I'd venture to state that every 1st and 2nd world country in the world has laws against requiring someone to state their health conditions in such a public, uncontrolled medium. Therefore, GCHQ would be breaking several countries' laws if they required it.
 

Quote

Do cachers have a right to know if a CO has Covid-19 before deciding to find their cache?

No. By law, the CO's right to privacy trumps the public's "right to know".

 

1 hour ago, HunterandSamuel said:

The question is...during this pandemic and if we contracted covid-19 and can't maintain our caches, should we disable the caches but give the reason why we disabled them or not give the reason why we disable them? 

SHOULD? There's no requirement. Is there a moral responsibility? I guess that's up to each individual to determine for themselves.

 

51 minutes ago, HunterandSamuel said:

PS: has any other virus stopped Geocaching headquarters from publishing geocache hides? 

No.

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3 minutes ago, TriciaG said:

Your choice.
 

GCHQ has no regulations on this. I'd venture to state that every 1st and 2nd world country in the world has laws against requiring someone to state their health conditions in such a public, uncontrolled medium. Therefore, GCHQ would be breaking several countries' laws if they required it.
 

No. By law, the CO's right to privacy trumps the public's "right to know".

 

SHOULD? There's no requirement. Is there a moral responsibility? I guess that's up to each individual to determine for themselves.

 

No.

 

Good to hear. Lets see what headquarters say. 

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37 minutes ago, HunterandSamuel said:

I see you didn't answer my posts. Your immaturity is noted. Again, your weak attempts to draw me in as failed. But my haven't. :-)

Apparently, I'm being too subtle. Thanks to TriciaG for replying more directly. But allow me to clarify my most recent point.

 

41 minutes ago, niraD said:
46 minutes ago, HunterandSamuel said:

My worry is no one would want to find my cache  hides even if I tested negative.

Yeah, people do silly things for silly reasons.

There is no reason to avoid anyone's caches just because the CO tested positive for COVID. Contaminated surfaces are not a significant vector for this virus, and Groundspeak's guidelines prohibit geocaches that "require geocachers to contact the cache owner or anyone else" so there should be no reason for seekers to come into contact with the CO (and thus be infected with the virus).

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1 hour ago, HunterandSamuel said:

Let me repeat: Since geocache hides have  been postponed during the pandemic due to this highly contagious and debilitating virus, it's an interesting question I asked. 

 

PS: has any other virus stopped Geocaching headquarters from publishing geocache hides? 

 

It's sad that some here like to debate just for the sake of debating. The pandemic is a great concern. 

 

HQ hasn't stopped any publication of caches. In some regions, the reviewers have suspended publication at times, for example here in New South Wales there were no new caches published in April and May when we were in lock-down, but the virus has now been brought under control (just a handful of new cases being detected each week) so the only caching restriction here now is that we can't hold events, as the reviewers (not HQ) have said they won't allow events until that state allows gatherings of 100 or more people (the limit in NSW is currently 30). The pandemic is playing out very differently in different parts of the world and I doubt HQ want to make any centralised decisions.

 

As for disclosing any illness in TD logs, a couple of years ago I injured my knee and wouldn't have been able to visit any of my higher T-rated caches for several months. Fortunately I didn't have to as none of them had any maintenance issues, but had that happened it would have been entirely up to me as to what I said in the TD. The only thing players and reviewers would need to know is that I'm aware of the maintenance issue and will deal with it as soon as I'm able to.

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1 minute ago, HunterandSamuel said:

Yes it did. 

In response to the virus? Or in response to government shutdowns?

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Just now, HunterandSamuel said:

 

Yes it did. 

 

No they didn't. That decision was made by individual reviewers in each region. In those parts of the world where there are no restrictions on outdoor activities, the publication of new caches wasn't stopped.

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1 minute ago, barefootjeff said:

As for disclosing any illness in TD logs, a couple of years ago I injured my knee and wouldn't have been able to visit any of my higher T-rated caches for several months.

 

 

Poor baby. Your injured knee (kissing the booboo) isn't equivalent to the pandemic. 

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1 minute ago, HunterandSamuel said:

Poor baby. Your injured knee (kissing the booboo) isn't equivalent to the pandemic. 

58 minutes ago, HunterandSamuel said:

Your immaturity is noted.

 

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1 minute ago, HunterandSamuel said:

 

Poor baby. Your injured knee (kissing the booboo) isn't equivalent to the pandemic. 

 

It has the same effect on cache maintenance as any other medical condition, i.e. it temporarily (hopefully) prevents the CO from carrying out the needed maintenance. As far as other cachers go, that's all they need to know. A CO who isn't performing maintenance due to having a virus isn't going to spread it to other cachers.

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Let's give this forum a broader audience... quarrels between two of us, are better solved over private messages.

We (all) appreciate you consideration.

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34 minutes ago, HunterandSamuel said:

I think headquarters answered by not allowing the publishing of new  caches during the covid-19 pandemic. I commend them for that.

 

IIRC, it was all based on what Governments would allow.  This is an international hobby..

We kept track by looking at the Regional Geocaching Policies Wiki .    

For example, many states NE of us were pretty-much all closed down, while we still had caches placed if in areas that were away from populated areas.  :)

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Thank you to barefootjeff, cerberus1 and niraD for your accurate comments about geocache publication practices.

 

On topic, a person who needs to disable a cache for health reasons would only need to state that.  The following TD logs would cause me to take notice and allow plenty of extra time before a cache needed to be actioned:

 

"I am temporarily disabling this cache due to COVID-19."

"I am temporarily disabling this cache due to health issues."

 

At most, I would require the owner to post periodic updates to these disabled cache pages.

 

Geocaching.com's guidance on maintenance expectations during the COVID-19 pandemic is out there, for those inclined to read it.

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On 10/27/2020 at 1:56 PM, TriciaG said:
On 10/27/2020 at 12:54 PM, Persoons said:

three caches are now having problems.
but i can't check because we got the covid virus.
how am I supposed to do it now because we will be stuck for at least another two weeks.

Google Translate. :)

 

Are they serious problems (cache reported as damaged, for example) or just suspicions (cache might be missing, but might not)?

 

If they are serious problems, temporarily disable the listing and mention that you are unable to check for a couple weeks due to Covid.  If they are just suspicions, you can either temporarily disable, or just post a note that you'll check on it when you can.

 

Or like Stef said, maybe there's someone you know who could check on them for you. :)

Back to the original post - which has been answered in the first couple of posts as far as I can tell.  Two weeks of disabled cache downtime is not a long time in the geocaching world!  And is within a reasonable time frame to get things back up and running.

 

As far as:

5 hours ago, HunterandSamuel said:

But the question is...should you give the reason why you're disabling your caches if you decide to go that route?

Do you need to give a reason for disabling a cache at all?  Yes, it's a courtesy to anyone following the cache, but it's not mandated anywhere that you need to give a reason.  That would be totally up to the CO, COVID or not.

 

5 hours ago, HunterandSamuel said:

What regulations does Geocache headquarters have on this?  Do cachers have a right to know if a CO has Covid-19 before deciding to find their cache?

As others have stated, no regulations.  Local regulations apply for hides, caching activities, etc.  Caches have been hidden and published throughout the pandemic in my area.  CITO events have happened in September and October.

 

Do cachers have right to know if a CO has <insert any disease, disability, or reason for disabling a cache> before deciding to find their cache?  It's immaterial if the reason for disabling a cache is due to illness or something else.  If the CO hasn't been to visit the cache there is no danger of infection and hence no reason to know if the CO has COVID or anything else. 

 

And effectively, the cache is disabled due to potential problems with it, which the CO will get to in a reasonable time frame, that's all HQ and anyone else needs to know.

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3 hours ago, CAVinoGal said:

And effectively, the cache is disabled due to potential problems with it, which the CO will get to in a reasonable time frame, that's all HQ and anyone else needs to know.

 

Yes, and the reviewers here are now allowing 45 days instead of the usual 28 to give COs more time under the circumstances. I'd imagine similar considerations would be given in places far harder hit by the virus, both in terms of the disease itself and restrictions that have been imposed, than we have here.

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7 hours ago, HunterandSamuel said:

 

Ask geocaching headquarters. 

Let's put THIS one to bed permanently, since Keystone didn't mention it in his reply.

In areas where the lockdown was sufficient to prohibit any kind of outdoor activity such as geocaching, reviewers in those areas may not have published caches.  I can absolutely 100% assure you (as others have tried to do) that YOUR area was not representative of the rest of the world if your lockdown disallowed geocaching, and hence, the placing of new caches.  Your personal experience in whatever part of MA you call home certainly didn't mirror MY experience here in Colorado, nor the experience of many others in different parts of the country/world.

So ... while "Yes it did." may have applied to your universe, it did not apply to mine.

 

 

Edited by ecanderson
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