Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 2
kunarion

Garmin Oregon 650t Crashed and Lost Files

Recommended Posts

I have an Oregon 650t that crashed last year while I was 100 miles from home.  At that point, it lost all GPS function, a whole lot of files, such as all maps, lost the Language, doesn't even have the correct time.  When I typed this post it showed "February 5"",  time is "136" and counting.

 

Strangely, the startup text with my name and phone number still works. The menu screen is there with icons, with the incorrect time and date.  But not much else. Today I found out how to get it to connect to USB. There's only a small list of files in Windows, it doesn't show up as a “Garmin GPS” on the PC and Garmin Express doesn't see it.  But connecting by PC gives me some hope.  I'm imagining that I could fix it now, in theory.  Maybe?

 

I installed an old SD card map, and it's blank, even zoomed all the way out.

 

Once it's powered on, I can press and release the User Button, to cause a "Database Error" fault.

 

I did a text chat with Garmin Support who said to do a Master Reset.  This consists of holding the power and user buttons in a certain process.  I've tried that for months.  Supposedly, it will start up, detect the missing files and restore them automatically.  But it simply starts as usual.  I was told that it will find and show the GPS location and correct time and date, but that also never seems to happen.  He said I have to buy new maps, and they are for the SD card.  I have a Garmin map SD card, but not the default internal factory maps.  I'm not sure he fully understands the issue.  And "Restore" doesn't re-install internal maps?  So it will restore... what exactly?

 

I don't really trust Garmin's canned answers.  I'd bet if the "Database" itself is gone, the ability to track satellites is also gone, and therefore it can never calculate location, time and date.  But I'm not the expert. B)

 

So...

 

Let's say a Garmin 650T has lost all its files but can connect to a PC.  Is there a way to get the correct files re-installed?  There are existing files, is one of them the Restore file?  I never did a full backup of the entire device, just Profiles and the GPS folder.  I don't know how it could crash like that (Garmin Support seems surprised by that), or if it's even salvageable.

 

 

Edited by kunarion

Share this post


Link to post

Have you tried connecting it to a PC and have webupdater or garmin express have a "look" at it?

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
19 minutes ago, on4bam said:

Have you tried connecting it to a PC and have webupdater or garmin express have a "look" at it?

 

 

 

The PC doesn't see a "Garmin" just the drives.  It found Drive H which has the short list of files, and Drive J that "needs to be formatted".  I made a GARMIN folder in Drive H and copied my GPX and Profile folders to it, and nothing changed (It still can't see Profiles, and there are no Geocaches). 

 

Garmin Express ignores it.

 

The USB connection seems unreliable.  Previously it would not connect ever.  Today I tried the trick of holding the power button with no batteries installed.  It will make a connect tone after 30 seconds, then disconnect tone 2 seconds later, reconnect after 2 seconds, then disconnect after a further 2 seconds.  If I release the power button during one of the "connect" cycles, it stayed connected.  Until just now, and I guess I'm not timing it right.  It isn't at the moment actually "connecting" as a drive at all.

 

Anyway, no, Garmin Express does nothing.  I was hoping that would fix it, once I was able to use USB.

 

Edited by kunarion

Share this post


Link to post

The only way to do a full restore is to have an original full backup to restore the device from, which is strongly suggested in FAQ #1at GPSrChive.

 

A master reset (see Troubleshooting page at link above) will rewrite many files back to original version for the firmware installed. 

 

Get that done and let us know what you still need.

Share this post


Link to post

If the database is gone, the device will just rebuild it. In fact, you can delete the sql folder with the database files and they will be rewritten. The database has no affect on GPS function.

Your crash could have caused or could be the effect of hardware failure. I would start with On4bam's suggestion. Will it plug into your computer and boot into mass storage mode? If so, you can have a look around the storage to see if all of the data files are present. You can even open up basecamp to see if your maps load and display correctly (ie, the files haven't been corrupted).

You can also delete the database files and back up any data you do have on there and wish to keep such as the GPX files, profile files, and so forth.

You can also try re-installing firmware, try an older firmware first from gpsrchive.com , and then upgrade to the latest via garmin express.

It sounds like you didn't actually complete a master reset - performing one boots into a master reset menu that gives you the option to continue with it. If that's the case, give that a try again as well.

If these still fail to fix your problem, we have to consider the possibility that some hardware component has failed, whether in the GPS chip or a sector of the internal storage containing vital system files.

Share this post


Link to post
1 minute ago, Atlas Cached said:

The only way to do a full restore is to have an original full backup to restore the device from, which is strongly suggested in FAQ #1at GPSrChive.

 

A master reset (see Troubleshooting page at link above) will rewrite many files back to original version for the firmware installed. 

 

Get that done and let us know what you still need.

 

Do I need a reliable USB connection, or can I do that from an SD card?

 

I had written it off, because of the hard crash, and because USB seems super faulty.  Today it connected using a known process, which seemed encouraging at first.

 

I really think this thing is toast.  As if circuits have corroded or broken, or something is shorting out internally.  It's behaving as if there's a hardware problem.  If I didn't see it 100% starting up just fine (with all the effects previously mentioned), I wouldn't even bother.  It just seems like it needs some files.  Kind of.

Share this post


Link to post
22 minutes ago, Mineral2 said:

If the database is gone, the device will just rebuild it. In fact, you can delete the sql folder with the database files and they will be rewritten. The database has no affect on GPS function.

Your crash could have caused or could be the effect of hardware failure. I would start with On4bam's suggestion. Will it plug into your computer and boot into mass storage mode? If so, you can have a look around the storage to see if all of the data files are present. You can even open up basecamp to see if your maps load and display correctly (ie, the files haven't been corrupted).

You can also delete the database files and back up any data you do have on there and wish to keep such as the GPX files, profile files, and so forth.

You can also try re-installing firmware, try an older firmware first from gpsrchive.com , and then upgrade to the latest via garmin express.

It sounds like you didn't actually complete a master reset - performing one boots into a master reset menu that gives you the option to continue with it. If that's the case, give that a try again as well.

If these still fail to fix your problem, we have to consider the possibility that some hardware component has failed, whether in the GPS chip or a sector of the internal storage containing vital system files.

 

 

There definitely is no "sql folder" anymore.  I created a "GARMIN" folder and copied  some previously backed up GPX and PROFILE folders into it, nothing changed.  There was only one and a handful of files in the root.  I'm trying that trick again that supposedly brings the device up into USB Mass Storage Mode, and it's only making connect/disconnect tones.  Consistently, and with a precise timing, but not in fact connecting now.

 

The "Master Reset", which I've done hundreds of times over the past several months, causes the device to start up as previously described, not in any kind of Restore mode.  But I know timing is critical.

 

So, exactly when do I perform these steps?  Step 4 "when the device powers on", I've been releasing the Power key when I see the first sign of life "Garmin Logo".  But I've also tried waiting til it powered into the menu as usual.  And I've tried many, many other things.  But I don't know exactly what they mean by "When device powers on".  Maybe that's my whole problem.  Or maybe there's something else to do or that I'm not doing besides those steps (waiting 10 seconds before starting, I have no idea).  I kind of HATE finding out that there are secret steps that are absolutely essential and that nobody ever tells anybody.  I already regret asking.  But, man, it just sometimes seems like I'm SO CLOSE to fixing it... I dunno... yeah... I'm keep thinking that this thing is toast.

 

To perform the master reset:

  1. If needed, power the device off
  2. Press and hold User key (Bottom button on the right side)
  3. Press and hold Power key (while continuing to hold User key)
  4. When device powers on, release Power key
  5. When the message Do you really want to erase all user data? appears, release User key
  6. Touch Erase 

The Oregon is now reset. It may be necessary to leave the device outside with a clear view of the sky for 20 minutes to acquire satellite data.

 

 

Edited by kunarion

Share this post


Link to post
31 minutes ago, Atlas Cached said:

If you do decide to give up completely, I'd love to have a look at it. 8^)

 

I've never seen anything like it.  I don't remember ever owning a device that starts right up basically without errors popping up, and operates as if it just "forgot" stuff... and that I could then not restore with ease.  As if part of a memory chip shorted out or corroded.

 

My old Palm PDA had a design flaw where the USB plug would likely separate from the circuit board.  My current Garmin GPS issue seems centered around USB problems, and the USB connector gets all the stress.  Makes me wonder.

 

Plus I've always had it out on trails, in the rain and humidity.  It failed after a long drive in the car, as I was to begin a cache hunt.  I had loaded a PQ before leaving, seemed fine, and I turned it on after arrival, and it locked up.  On the next power-up, it couldn't find satellites, and it showed the wrong month and time.

 

 

Edited by kunarion

Share this post


Link to post

Here are the contents of "boot (H:)"

 

Untitled-1.jpg

 

"boot (H:)" memory is this:
Used 21.6 MB

Free 35.2 MB

Capacity 56.8 MB

 

There's also an empty "USB Drive (J:)" that windows can't access, and that it offers to format if I select that drive.  This is regardless of whether there's an SD card installed.  Windows doesn't seem to find the SD card.

 

 

Edited by kunarion

Share this post


Link to post

Wow, you are never supposed to have access to those files.... Seems somehow the unit is allowing access to protected internal memory instead of user memory - which may indicate the user memory chip on the PCB has failed.

Share this post


Link to post
32 minutes ago, kunarion said:

 

To perform the master reset:

  1. If needed, power the device off
  2. Press and hold User key (Bottom button on the right side)
  3. Press and hold Power key (while continuing to hold User key)
  4. When device powers on, release Power key
  5. When the message Do you really want to erase all user data? appears, release User key
  6. Touch Erase 

The Oregon is now reset. It may be necessary to leave the device outside with a clear view of the sky for 20 minutes to acquire satellite data.

 

 

 

Looks like the Garmin instructions, which do not match what is posted at GPSrChive - and the GPSrChive method works much more reliably for me.

 

Quote

How do I Master Reset my Oregon 6x0?

  • With the Oregon 6x0 powered off, press and hold the user button and cycle the power button.
  • The Oregon 6x0 will begin the boot process.
  • Release the user button.
  • When prompted "Do you really want to erase all user data?", select [Erase].

 

Share this post


Link to post
1 minute ago, Atlas Cached said:

 

Looks like the Garmin instructions, which do not match what is posted at GPSrChive - and the GPSrChive method works much more reliably for me.

 

 

 

That's about what I've tried.  Since it doesn't cause anything useful to happen, I've tried a bunch of ways to interpret the part about "boot process" or "power on".  Anyway I've done it a lot like the GPSrchive way, which is slightly simpler (by not requiring me to guess when to the actual "power on" occurs).

Share this post


Link to post
10 minutes ago, kunarion said:

Here are the contents of "boot (H:)"

 

Untitled-1.jpg

 

"boot (H:)" memory is this:
Used 21.6 MB

Free 35.2 MB

Capacity 56.8 MB

 

There's also an empty "USB Drive (J:)" that windows can't access, and that it offers to format if I select that drive.  This is regardless of whether there's an SD card installed.  Windows doesn't seem to find the SD card.

 

 

 

Please make a copy of that entire directory on your HDD for sharing privately later. I also would like to have a look at those files!

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
8 minutes ago, Atlas Cached said:

Wow, you are never supposed to have access to those files.... Seems somehow the unit is allowing access to protected internal memory instead of user memory - which may indicate the user memory chip on the PCB has failed.

 

So the boot drive should be hidden, and the "J" drive, all the user files, cannot be accessed. I should be able to open that on a PC.  Weird.

Share this post


Link to post
1 minute ago, kunarion said:

 

So the boot drive should be hidden, and the "J" drive, all the user files, cannot be accessed. I should be able to open that on a PC.  Weird.

 

Can you copy that entire directory, zip it up and email it to me? Looks like it should be under 25MB...

Share this post


Link to post
1 minute ago, Atlas Cached said:

 

Can you copy that entire directory, zip it up and email it to me? Looks like it should be under 25MB...

 

Looks like it copied without issue.  I'll zip it

 

Using Windows Disk Management, I can see partitions in "boot".  The partition I can open is "Drive H", 57 MB FAT, "Healthy (Active, Primary Partition).  There's another partition, 2.19 GB "Healthy (Primary Partition)", and 5.00 GB Unallocated.  I could easily mess it all up by deleting partitions or formatting the inaccessible Drive J (the 2nd partition?).  I'll see what GPSrchive has available before I do anything drastic.

Share this post


Link to post
12 minutes ago, Atlas Cached said:

I would not delete any of that.

 

On GPSrchive, I looked at the last-resort "Forced RGN Firmware Installation", and that probably can't work, because there is no "Garmin 650" USB drive.  It might be the corrupt "Drive J:" that Windows can't even open.  Plus it is showing those internal files that should be invisible, on the only accessible drive.

 

On a positive not, once I go through the patterns and contortions to create a USB connection, it stays connected just fine.  Unplug it and I have to do it all again.  So it's not starting in Mass Storage Mode by default.  I don't see anything I could change within the menu that would fix that, the settings look right.  

 

 

Edited by kunarion

Share this post


Link to post
29 minutes ago, Atlas Cached said:

 

Can you copy that entire directory, zip it up and email it to me? Looks like it should be under 25MB...

 

I don't see you email address.  I can attach a file to a Message Center message.  Is that OK?

Share this post


Link to post
3 hours ago, Viajero Perdido said:

Linux files - interesting!  B)

Quite interesting because they don't list the Oregon as a Linux-based product at https://developer.garmin.com/open-source/linux/. If It's Linux based, there are license obligations that they have to meet. These files should definitely be preserved for research's sake. 

It's certainly strange that the GPS would have files that are clearly for a Raspberry Pi. It's odd that there isn't really a recognizable filesystem, but maybe one of if the img files is like an ISO  image or MacOS dmg where a "real" filesystem is married atop a lesser filesystem.

Are you sure that this H: is the Garmin and not some other device that's plugged in?

  • Helpful 1

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, robertlipe said:

Quite interesting because they don't list the Oregon as a Linux-based product at https://developer.garmin.com/open-source/linux/. If It's Linux based, there are license obligations that they have to meet. These files should definitely be preserved for research's sake. 

It's certainly strange that the GPS would have files that are clearly for a Raspberry Pi. It's odd that there isn't really a recognizable filesystem, but maybe one of if the img files is like an ISO  image or MacOS dmg where a "real" filesystem is married atop a lesser filesystem.

Are you sure that this H: is the Garmin and not some other device that's plugged in?

 

Nothing else is plugged in.  I don't know how that could have happened or when.  But if that folder doesn't even belong there, that gives entirely different options.

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, Atlas Cached said:

Did you send zip file yet?

 

I doubt it's useful.  As robertlipe said, it seems to be entirely LINUX files for Raspberry Pi.  I tried to figure out the chain of events that caused that, and failed. It was obviously installed at some point, which is odd because USB didn't work, without performing the connection special steps that I hadn't tried before today.

 

I'm looking at GPSrchives, and installing Firmware.  I'm unsure what the "Firmware" is.  The site keeps referring to it as an "Update".  Does it restore the complete files and folders?  Does it merely "Update" an existing set of files and folders?  My device is blank. 

 

On my old 550, the files without maps total about 18 MB, and with maps it's over 2 GB.  The "Update" file for the 650 is about 16 MB, similar to the other system without maps.  So at best, maps are gone.

 

Just now I tried the GPSrchive's "GCD Update", nothing changed.  Next the "RGN Firmware Install", where the GPS display startup changed to say it was installing, and the software loading bar worked, with no errors.  That actually appeared to be doing something useful, but I still see no change to the 650 after that.

 

It takes 30 seconds at best, for the USB Drive to be recognized, and that's using the process:  Batteries removed, hold the power button, wait 30 seconds for the drive to appear in Windows.  It's basically the same, except The Update expects that I simply plug in the cable.  Maybe the USB issues prevent the "Update" from happening.

 

Anyway, the device "empty" of files, its folder is readable and writable by Windows, and when I power it on, its function remains the same.

 

Edited by kunarion

Share this post


Link to post

I may be able to learn something about what happened after I inspect them.... And if I can, then maybe determine how to reverse it.

Share this post


Link to post
9 hours ago, Atlas Cached said:

 

Can you copy that entire directory, zip it up and email it to me? Looks like it should be under 25MB...

Yeah, I'll bet THAT will be interesting.  May be some of the only copies of certain of those files ever to make it 'into the wild'.

Share this post


Link to post
10 hours ago, ecanderson said:

Yeah, I'll bet THAT will be interesting.  May be some of the only copies of certain of those files ever to make it 'into the wild'.

 

I was hoping.

 

Turns out all those files are in fact for a Raspberry Pi device and none are from Garmin.

 

There is more to this story than has been disclosed.

Share this post


Link to post
13 hours ago, kunarion said:

 

I doubt it's useful.  As robertlipe said, it seems to be entirely LINUX files for Raspberry Pi.  I tried to figure out the chain of events that caused that, and failed. It was obviously installed at some point, which is odd because USB didn't work, without performing the connection special steps that I hadn't tried before today.

 

I'm looking at GPSrchives, and installing Firmware.  I'm unsure what the "Firmware" is.  The site keeps referring to it as an "Update".  Does it restore the complete files and folders?  Does it merely "Update" an existing set of files and folders?  My device is blank. 

 

On my old 550, the files without maps total about 18 MB, and with maps it's over 2 GB.  The "Update" file for the 650 is about 16 MB, similar to the other system without maps.  So at best, maps are gone.

 

Just now I tried the GPSrchive's "GCD Update", nothing changed.  Next the "RGN Firmware Install", where the GPS display startup changed to say it was installing, and the software loading bar worked, with no errors.  That actually appeared to be doing something useful, but I still see no change to the 650 after that.

 

It takes 30 seconds at best, for the USB Drive to be recognized, and that's using the process:  Batteries removed, hold the power button, wait 30 seconds for the drive to appear in Windows.  It's basically the same, except The Update expects that I simply plug in the cable.  Maybe the USB issues prevent the "Update" from happening.

 

Anyway, the device "empty" of files, its folder is readable and writable by Windows, and when I power it on, its function remains the same.

 

 

Turns out those were all Raspberry Pi device OS files. Not a single file from Garmin. Sure would like to know how you got those installed on the Oregon 6x0....

 

A Firmware update simply updates the device operating system, nothing more. No maps, etc. Once loaded to the device, it installs on the next boot sequence.

 

Does not sound like your device can boot properly as somehow the internal memory has been overwritten with Raspberry Pi OS files. Again, how did this happen? Do you own and use Raspberry Pi devices? Or did you loan your Oregon 6x0 to someone else who does?

 

It does seem it is pretty well bricked. I would still like a shot at recovering it if you find no other solution.

Share this post


Link to post
3 minutes ago, Atlas Cached said:

 

I was hoping.

 

Turns out all those files are in fact for a Raspberry Pi device and none are from Garmin.

 

There is more to this story than has been disclosed.

 

Not even an error log?

 

 

I tried to imagine when and how those files got there.  I don't even remember, it's been at least a few months since I even bothered with it, because it just doesn't/didn't connect.  But I'm not interested if there were files that didn't belong, or even why.  My hope was to restore it to working order.

Share this post


Link to post

No error log.

 

Not a single file is a Garmin file.

 

Whatever happened to get the Raspberry Pi OS files loaded totally wiped out the Garmin OS partition, effectively bricking the unit.

Share this post


Link to post
7 minutes ago, Atlas Cached said:

It does seem it is pretty well bricked. I would still like a shot at recovering it if you find no other solution.

 

What can be done?  There seems to be an intact operating system, hidden.  It turns on and operates as I described.

 

Everywhere I go including Garmin, I keep being told that if I reset it, it automatically restores missing files from within itself.  They should stop saying that.  Unless the files are already there, that's not possible.  In which case it's not necessary.

 

Edited by kunarion

Share this post


Link to post
2 minutes ago, Atlas Cached said:

Whatever happened to get the Raspberry Pi OS files loaded totally wiped out the Garmin OS partition, effectively bricking the unit.

 

It failed with the Garmin partition installed.  It's possible it was additionally wiped out since.  But I could install Pokemon on it and it still wouldn't matter.


I'm surprised that if a file is missing that the file can't be installed.  Not surprised.

 

Share this post


Link to post

Each and every time a Garmin GPSr is powered on, during the boot sequence, many files are written to the visible partition so that other devices can read them and know how to interact with the GPSr. However, the Garmin OS remains hidden to the user.

 

If a 'gupdate.gcd' file is present here, upon booting, the device will verify file integrity before writing the new OS firmware to the hidden OS partition.

 

You are not seeing any of these files or directories  after booting the device, which suggest the OS has been corrupted. This portion of the internal memory is not accessible via USB connection.

Share this post


Link to post
6 minutes ago, kunarion said:

I'm surprised that if a file is missing that the file can't be installed.  Not surprised.

 

I'm so confused. Which is it?

 

:blink:

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 2

×
×
  • Create New...