Rules about hiding caches

[+TheRolphsUk]

Can someone please clear up a question regarding the rules about caches being buried completely under about 2 inches of soil and with no hint, only leaves the option of the whole GZ area being dug up to find it?? All the info I found states NO, but a fellow cacher who owns a few series said the rules recently changed and caches can be buried? This makes no sense to me? 

Can anyone settle this for me and tell me can you or can you not fully bury a cache which requires digging up? 

Thank you in advance. 

[+niraD]

7 minutes ago, Og38 said:

Can someone please clear up a question regarding the rules about caches being buried completely under about 2 inches of soil and with no hint, only leaves the option of the whole GZ area being dug up to find it?? All the info I found states NO, but a fellow cacher who owns a few series said the rules recently changed and caches can be buried? This makes no sense to me? 

Can anyone settle this for me and tell me can you or can you not fully bury a cache which requires digging up? 

Thank you in advance. 

 

The situation you described sounds like a violation of the guidelines against buried caches:

Quote

Do not bury

Do not bury geocaches, either partially or completely. You must not create a hole in the ground to place or find a geocache.

 

The only exception is if a property owner gives explicit permission to create a hole to place the cache, which you must provide to the reviewer and state on the cache page. A cache cannot require the finder to dig to reach the cache. See the Regional Geocaching Policies Wiki for details in your region.

 

Yes, there can be exceptions to the rule against "creating a hole in the ground" (either to place or to find caches). But the exceptions are very specific. Explicit permission from the property owner must be provided to the volunteer reviewer, and must be stated on the cache page.

 

And digging cannot be required to find the cache. The exception is to allow situations where the property owner wants something installed for the cache, not to allow digging in general.

[+kunarion]

I've never seen a cache hidden under 2 inches of soil.  It would need to be a unique spot for that to work.  The first finder may have a challenge, but the rest will have a dug-up spot, easy to find.  A cache that requires great care to re-hide doesn't always receive such great care.

 

Here's a page about it:

https://www.geocaching.com/help/index.php?pg=kb.chapter&id=128&pgid=905

[+Max and 99]

31 minutes ago, Og38 said:

a fellow cacher who owns a few series said the rules recently changed and caches can be buried

Ask your fellow cacher to show you this rule change. Then post it here so we can see too. 

[+cerberus1]

30 minutes ago, Og38 said:

Can someone please clear up a question regarding the rules about caches being buried completely under about 2 inches of soil and with no hint, only leaves the option of the whole GZ area being dug up to find it?? All the info I found states NO, but a fellow cacher who owns a few series said the rules recently changed and caches can be buried? This makes no sense to me? 

Can anyone settle this for me and tell me can you or can you not fully bury a cache which requires digging up? 

 

 The landowners see people showing on their properties with shovels in hand...   What could go wrong ?      

I'm pretty sure if digging would ever be allowed (it isn't now...) , HQ would make sure it's removed from their guidelines and the Help Center first.

 - That hasn't happened, as you see by the links from others.  The fellow "cacher" is incorrect...

[Keystone]

1 hour ago, Max and 99 said:

Ask your fellow cacher to show you this rule change. Then post it here so we can see too. 

 

niraD accurately quoted the current guideline language.  The recent change was the last paragraph, beginning with "The only exception..."   But this only relates to digging a hole to hide a cache, with express permission.  Digging to find a cache isn't permitted.

[+Goldenwattle]

I once tried to find a buried cache. It was under the ground beside the Stuart Highway in Australia (in SA?), in a busier section. (Checking the highway where it runs, will show large sections that are not as busy.) The searcher had to walk up and down over the sandy ground, until you heard a noisy. I walked up and down, up and down, but I couldn't hear anything over the passing traffic. Meanwhile thinking, this isn't allowed; it's buried.

[+frostengel]

Even if it was allowed - not everything that is allowed is good.

 

I've seen some Caches on groundlevel, let's say a big box hidden in the floor so that you "just" had to find the lid and open it without having to use a shovel yourself. That may be a nice hide but in the fall time it's a pain in the a** (is this expression correctly used here? ;-)) as there is much - much! - leaf everywhere. If you have an inaccuracy of only 10 metres that is lots of ground to search - and by moving the leafs you will disturb any small animals living there.

 

I am sure there are always better hides but underground whatever the guidelines say. There are alternative platforms without those guidelines and if you wanted you could still lie to your reviewer about the cache being buried - but don't do it, neither way, that's just not very good....

 

That's just my humble opinion, of course!

[+NanCycle]

3 hours ago, frostengel said:

Even if it was allowed - not everything that is allowed is good.

 

I've seen some Caches on groundlevel, let's say a big box hidden in the floor so that you "just" had to find the lid and open it without having to use a shovel yourself. That may be a nice hide but in the fall time it's a pain in the a** (is this expression correctly used here? ;-)) as there is much - much! - leaf everywhere. If you have an inaccuracy of only 10 metres that is lots of ground to search - and by moving the leafs you will disturb any small animals living there.

 

I am sure there are always better hides but underground whatever the guidelines say. There are alternative platforms without those guidelines and if you wanted you could still lie to your reviewer about the cache being buried - but don't do it, neither way, that's just not very good....

 

That's just my humble opinion, of course!

Yes, the expression is correctly used.

If you lie to the reviewer about it being buried, be forewarned--when I find it I will out you.

[+Max and 99]

Long story made really short: 

Cache pirates submitted a new cache for publication. The reviewer declined it until he got clarification. They assured him it was not buried so he published it. I went and found it and it was partially buried in a huge deep hole they dug (that was the least concerning thing about this hide)  and it contained a big jar of all the stuff they stole from local caches. When the reviewer found out, he said to me "Now you get to find out what happens when I've been lied to".

So to repeat what others have said, don't lie to the reviewer about the cache being buried or anything else. ? 

 

Edited October 1, 2020 by Max and 99

[+frostengel]

2 hours ago, NanCycle said:

If you lie to the reviewer

 

Don't worry, I haven't done this so far and I have no idea why I should do it. If you want to do something special you can ask the reviewers and if that's reasonable you may be allowed to do it. Burying something in the woods doesn't seem reasonable.

 

All I wanted to say is that there are ways to publish such a cache - an easy and honest way is simply using other platforms - but I wouldn't recommend it iany way. There are other reasons why this shouldn't happen - not only the guidelines but the rules of common sense ("gesunder Menschenverstand" as we say in Germany).

Edited October 1, 2020 by frostengel
grammar :-)

[+HunterandSamuel]

I just want to add...I hate caches that are purposely buried under leaves! Almost impossible to find, all that digging can't be good for the environment either. Took us close to an hour one time to find a buried cache under leaves, in the Fall of all seasons, just for a FTF. lol 

[+ecanderson]

3 hours ago, HunterandSamuel said:

I just want to add...I hate caches that are purposely buried under leaves! Almost impossible to find, all that digging can't be good for the environment either. Took us close to an hour one time to find a buried cache under leaves, in the Fall of all seasons, just for a FTF. lol 

This is the time of year that we pull out the metal detector and hope that either the container, bugs or swag show up... especially for those that show "Not Available in Winter".  We start to pay close attention to that attribute about now.

[+cerberus1]

5 hours ago, ecanderson said:

This is the time of year that we pull out the metal detector and hope that either the container, bugs or swag show up... especially for those that show "Not Available in Winter".  We start to pay close attention to that attribute about now.

 

Yep.  Fall and leaves falling is nada compared to homing in with our detector (a Garrett handheld).  

We try to only go after ammo cans when we can... so few containers with anything but a log in them these days, and fragile, frozen plastic.

[+ecanderson]

Guess I could borrow a Garrett from Public Safety and save some space (we use them prior to entrance to the sim house - not that a live round would fit into a Simunition re-built Glock anyway, but safer is safer), but think I would find the bending over a little tedious.  I use one of the less 'personal' versions that allow me to stay standing while I work.

 

[+HunterandSamuel]

On 10/20/2020 at 6:13 PM, ecanderson said:

This is the time of year that we pull out the metal detector and hope that either the container, bugs or swag show up... especially for those that show "Not Available in Winter".  We start to pay close attention to that attribute about now.

 

 

I have been wanting to get a metal detector. Good advice! 

[+kunarion]

On 10/30/2020 at 1:57 PM, HunterandSamuel said:

 

 

I have been wanting to get a metal detector. Good advice! 

 

For a relatively small search area, where you stand in one spot (hunting in thick shrubbery for example), a security wand might be OK. Harbor Freight has two styles for less than $20, not waterproof, not durable. I brought one to a cache site where there's an impossible cache hidden by a one of those self-proclaimed evil geniuses. The cache may be a ziplock bag with dirt glued to it, never found. But it's listed as containing a Geocoin. So I ran the wand all around the nooks and crannies of various boulders at GZ, just to see what I might find. Lots and lots of little metal cans pressed into the ground.

 

A super cheap treasure-hunting metal detector may be OK for larger areas. It's still not waterproof nor durable, and it will “find” everything including pieces of aluminum foil.

 

I once found an ammo box that had its lid flush with the ground.  If it gets covered with leaves and dirt, hunt it by poking around with a hiking stick.  Or, sure, a metal detector would do (if you're OK with finding a lot of buried trash along with it).  But in the case of a plastic container, good luck!

[+cerberus1]

2 hours ago, kunarion said:

For a relatively small search area, where you stand in one spot (hunting in thick shrubbery for example), a security wand might be OK.

 

A super cheap treasure-hunting metal detector may be OK for larger areas. It's still not waterproof nor durable, and it will “find” everything including pieces of aluminum foil.

I once found an ammo box that had its lid flush with the ground.  If it gets covered with leaves and dirt, hunt it by poking around with a hiking stick.  Or, sure, a metal detector would do (if you're OK with finding a lot of buried trash along with it).  But in the case of a plastic container, good luck!

 

Agreed.  Cheap sometimes means you're giving something up for that cost savings.

We use a Garret V because it's easily carried in a pack, or even worn on belt.  IIRC, around ninety bucks on sale.

 Perfect for pesky "somewhere in a pine" bison hides.     

I don't believe it's waterproof, but I've followed logs up to my elbow in snow a couple years now, and have yet to have an issue with just a wipe with a bandana.

We've searched tapping for ammo cans with a hiking stick or even ice axe in winter for years.  

But for plastics, we hope there's some metal there (a pen clip, even the coil in a notepad) to help finding with a detector.

A lotta plastics get busted by people hunting by poking the ground.   

 - We have had to use the handy ice axe for chipping even plastic containers when folks thought a coppiced tree a good hide.   

Luckily we're not seeing the "finding other trash" issues in woods hides.