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CleverCloggs

Replacing damp and damaged logs

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I have now found a 1/3 of caches hidden have damaged, full or wet logs. And as a courtesy I have added a roll of paper to keep the game going... It is ok to do this?  Iv even dried them out and taken extra plastic bags etc, just in case...  

It would be a good thing if caches were cared for by the owners of course.... But is this a common thing? 

 

I do love this game, and hopefully will find intact and cool caches soon. 

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I may be watching too many youtube clips on cool caches all over the world LOL ! expectations far too  high! 

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I'll do it sometimes, but I won't go out of my way to do so - it's the cache owner's job to do most of the maintenance. It depends on the cache, the owner and how long it's been a problem for. If it's all just mush in there then there seems little point doing so.

 

Other people will take a pile of logs around with them to replace. It's up to you really - I don't think there's anything wrong with it, but I'd always make it clear that I've done so in a log so that the owner is aware.

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I don't believe that there is a "set in stone" guideline for replacing logs, but it is definitely a done thing.

 

My opinion, is that if there are a few factors as to why that specific cache should remain in play, then it's a nice thing to do. If it's in a good spot that people want to visit, has historical value, the container is interesting and / or in good condition, the CO is active but temporarily absent or a few other factors (does not have to meet all) then I'd say go for it.

 

But if the cache is also in poor condition, has a broken container, is in a "meh" location (carpark, behind a dumpster, magnetic nano on a guard rail, etc) and / or has a CO who hasn't logged in for years - then what I'd do is leave it and put NM / NA tags (as appropriate) to free up that spot. No point in keeping sub-standard or decaying caches in play. Clean out the older ones and allow new caches to be put out.

 

You could try doing "community maintenance" on old caches to keep them in play if the CO's are long gone (which seems to be a common thing where you are), but it's actually a lot easier to archive an old one and set up a new near-identical cache in the same spot because then if there are any issues, you'd get the emails about them rather than having to constantly monitor the logs. Just note details about the old cache and you could put "this cache replaced cache GC1234 after the CO went inactive" since archived caches aren't deleted, people (if they have the GC code) can still find archived caches and see old logs. 

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4 hours ago, CleverCloggs said:

I have now found a 1/3 of caches hidden have damaged, full or wet logs. And as a courtesy I have added a roll of paper to keep the game going... It is ok to do this?  Iv even dried them out and taken extra plastic bags etc, just in case...

I carry extra logs (printed on weatherproof paper), and I sometimes leave them in caches as a favor to the owner. As you mentioned, the owner is responsible for maintaining the cache.

 

I've never removed the existing log (which is implied by the word "replacing" in the subject line).

 

Also, I post a NM log if the original log was wet or unusable because the container failed to protect it. Adding a weatherproof log may help for a short time, but the original problem is still there, and the CO needs to do something about it. The only time I add a log and don't post a NM is when the original log is full; in that case, adding another log actually did resolve the problem.

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6 hours ago, CleverCloggs said:

I have now found a 1/3 of caches hidden have damaged, full or wet logs. And as a courtesy I have added a roll of paper to keep the game going... It is ok to do this?  Iv even dried them out and taken extra plastic bags etc, just in case...  

It would be a good thing if caches were cared for by the owners of course.... But is this a common thing? 

 

I do love this game, and hopefully will find intact and cool caches soon. 

 

Cache Owners know which of their caches tend to regularly get soaking wet. The previous logs will have a lot of mentions of "wet log sheet".  If it's a nano or bison tube outdoors in the elements, or especially a foam-sealed pill bottle, it's gonna be soaked frequently.  Prepare for lost of maintenance visits.  Or, as most COs do, ignore it and it magically remains in play.  I can dry a log sheet on the windshield of my car in a few minutes.  Often such caches are close to the parking spot.  Beware that Finders' maintenance is the "magic" that keeps an otherwise unmaintained pill bottle there.  If you can resist fixing it, it may be archived and make a place for a better container and more diligent CO.

 

For my caches, I check the ones I tend to find wet.  Finders don't take care that water drips inside, and one drop destroys a nano log.  O-rings break after a couple of finds.   Cachers  unfortunately mention nothing until it's a soaking wet mess.

 

I have extra log sheets in baggies, but I usually dry the log sheet or write on it carefully with a sharpie.  When there are a lot of unaddressed mentions of "wet log",  I can tell in advance that there's a problem, so I often skip such a cache.  You can, too. :)

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2 hours ago, L0ne.R said:

 

I think all of the substandard abandoned-by-owner propped-up-by-finder caches are the reason the game is not attracting more people.

yes, it is disheartening.. But I have hid some really cool ones, and tend to care for the ones I have found.. bringing extra paper etc... fingers crossed for an upsurge

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2 hours ago, kunarion said:

 

Cache Owners know which of their caches tend to regularly get soaking wet. The previous logs will have a lot of mentions of "wet log sheet".  If it's a nano or bison tube outdoors in the elements, or especially a foam-sealed pill bottle, it's gonna be soaked frequently.  Prepare for lost of maintenance visits.  Or, as most COs do, ignore it and it magically remains in play.  I can dry a log sheet on the windshield of my car in a few minutes.  Often such caches are close to the parking spot.  Beware that Finders' maintenance is the "magic" that keeps an otherwise unmaintained pill bottle there.  If you can resist fixing it, it may be archived and make a place for a better container and more diligent CO.

 

For my caches, I check the ones I tend to find wet.  Finders don't take care that water drips inside, and one drop destroys a nano log.  O-rings break after a couple of finds.   Cachers  unfortunately mention nothing until it's a soaking wet mess.

 

I have extra log sheets in baggies, but I usually dry the log sheet or write on it carefully with a sharpie.  When there are a lot of unaddressed mentions of "wet log",  I can tell in advance that there's a problem, so I often skip such a cache.  You can, too. :)

I now tend to take extra paper logs and tissues to wipe out a cache, just in case... then the next person wont have a soggy log.. LOL 

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2 hours ago, L0ne.R said:

 

I think all of the substandard abandoned-by-owner propped-up-by-finder caches are the reason the game is not attracting more people.

True....

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4 hours ago, niraD said:

I carry extra logs (printed on weatherproof paper), and I sometimes leave them in caches as a favor to the owner. As you mentioned, the owner is responsible for maintaining the cache.

 

I've never removed the existing log (which is implied by the word "replacing" in the subject line).

 

Also, I post a NM log if the original log was wet or unusable because the container failed to protect it. Adding a weatherproof log may help for a short time, but the original problem is still there, and the CO needs to do something about it. The only time I add a log and don't post a NM is when the original log is full; in that case, adding another log actually did resolve the problem.

I added two rolls in my log finds today.. hopefully the next person, will be able to sign and the fun keeps going. 

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9 hours ago, CleverCloggs said:

I have now found a 1/3 of caches hidden have damaged, full or wet logs.

And as a courtesy I have added a roll of paper to keep the game going... It is ok to do this?  Iv even dried them out and taken extra plastic bags etc, just in case...  

 

It would be a good thing if caches were cared for by the owners of course.... But is this a common thing? 

I do love this game, and hopefully will find intact and cool caches soon. 

 

Have you read the section in the Help Center titled: "When a cache needs maintenance" ?      :)

Notice it doesn't mention keeping caches maintained for others...

We will leave a Rite in Rain log strip as a means for others to log the find, and might wipe it down if it isn't clear it's a container issue (just get fulla water again...), but only meant to tide things over until the COs can fix it themselves.

 -  Unless we know the CO (and that they will act on our log...) we always follow our Found It with a NM.

 

Not as common as some would like you to believe, but it happens.  Guessing you're in an area with members who've left the hobby ?

 

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1 minute ago, cerberus1 said:

 

Have you read the section in the Help Center titled: "When a cache needs maintenance" ?      :)

Notice it doesn't mention keeping caches maintained for others...

We will leave a Rite in Rain log strip as a means for others to log the find, and might wipe it down if it isn't clear it's a container issue (just get fulla water again...), but only meant to tide things over until the COs can fix it themselves.

 -  Unless we know the CO (and that they will act on our log...) we always follow our Found It with a NM.

 

Not as common as some would like you to believe, but it happens.  Guessing you're in an area with members who've left the hobby ?

 

Yes, i think that is the case.. Although I have hid a few, and the ones that get published are found within hours, so there is still interest... I shall endevour to get some cool ones out there. 

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Is it OK to add a log when you find one full or wet? Yes. Do I ever do that? No. Adding a fresh paper when there's a wet log just means more wet log. Adding more log when there's not enough makes more sense, but I just sign over other signatures and leave it up to the CO.

 

It is fairly common. I don't know any COs that complain (although I've heard in the forums that there are such).

 

*Replacing* a log is a little different, but you didn't ask about that.

 

Keep your spirits up! Good caches are out there, and you can even have a lot of fun with marginal caches if you set you mind to it.

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I only do it when there's enough room for the new log and the old one. I don't take the old log in case the CO wants it. So if it's a nano or something, I just say the log is full and squeeze my initials on it somewhere.

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On 9/27/2020 at 10:51 AM, CleverCloggs said:

Yes, i think that is the case.. Although I have hid a few, and the ones that get published are found within hours, so there is still interest... I shall endevour to get some cool ones out there. 

Looks like your problem stems from most of the 'local' caches having been placed in 2012 by one owner, and it looks like the owner now lives in Lisboa/Lisbon, quite a long distance away.

A whole lot of 3XXXX caches without someone nearby to maintain them won't have provided you with a very nice experience, so I understand why you are seeing what you are seeing out there.

If your caches are being found, you might want to try to get together with those finders to see if you can encourage them to start placing some of their own.

 

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On 9/27/2020 at 3:23 AM, CleverCloggs said:

I have now found a 1/3 of caches hidden have damaged, full or wet logs. And as a courtesy I have added a roll of paper to keep the game going... It is ok to do this?  Iv even dried them out and taken extra plastic bags etc, just in case...  

It would be a good thing if caches were cared for by the owners of course.... But is this a common thing? 

 

I do love this game, and hopefully will find intact and cool caches soon. 

 

Unfortunately it is a common thing. Caused by...

A. Placing containers that are inappropriate for the conditions they are exposed to.  

B. Cachers that are reluctant to, or don't know how to log a need maintenance when they find a damp log.

C. A lack of proper owner maintenance.

 

When I started I would dry wet logs or add dry ones if needed. I soon realized all I was doing was enabling poor cache ownership and poor logging practice. The owner needs to be notified if the cache needs maintenance. Thats exactly why NM is there. The cache needs to be archived if the owner wont respond to NM's. 

 

Sure there are exceptions. Hospitalizations, Illnesses, injuries etc. are all good reasons for the cache community to kick in and help. But generally, maintaining caches for owners is enabling poor ownership habits. You are seeing the results of that practice.      

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On 9/27/2020 at 11:52 AM, CleverCloggs said:

I now tend to take extra paper logs and tissues to wipe out a cache, just in case... then the next person wont have a soggy log.. LOL 

 

If the container is letting water in, then the issue is the container, not the log.  That's a CO issue to fix, not a finder's issue to fix, which is why it would be time to file the NM log along with your found it log.  While what you're offering to do is great, it doesn't address the underlying issue that's causing the problem.  It's only temporarily addressing the effect, not the cause.  However, if the container appears to have no issues and it was due to a faulty closing of the container, then there really isn't much of a problem.  There isn't really a problem doing what you're doing but it's just wasted effort on your part as the cache will revert to what it was like when you found it.

 

As to replacing, unlike others on here, I will replace and take the old log when the old log takes up so much space that a new log (or a temporary filler log) wouldn't fit.  That's also assuming that the container is still a viable one that will keep out moisture.  If not, then I won't replace it at all.  Should I replace the log, I will make mention of it in my log and then contact the CO to let them know I'll be happy to get the log to them, be it in person, via a photograph of the log, or even snail mail.  I've only ever had one (that I remember) CO reach out to me with a request for photos of the log.  If you're really concerned about the old log for the CO, then you can choose to post a photo of the log along with your found it log.  Those COs who are adamantly opposed to finders doing something like that typically have language within the description that states finders shouldn't replace logs.

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1 minute ago, coachstahly said:

 

 Those COs who are adamantly opposed to finders doing something like that typically have language within the description that states finders shouldn't replace logs.

I would never replace the log as that isn't my area or property..but I have on 2 occasions added some clean paper roll :) I always contact the CO if there is any issues. But thanks for the tips.. 

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24 minutes ago, CleverCloggs said:

I always contact the CO if there is any issues.

You should also post a Needs Maintenance log, so that future seekers and the volunteer reviewers are aware of the issues too.

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When we run across a wad of mush that allows for the addition of a fresh log in a zip, we claim the find and throw a NM out along with it.

 

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There is nothing wrong with a little cache repair, however firstly it should be the responsibility of the cache owner to maintain their own caches. If this is not possible there is nothing wrong with helping to keep the caches in good repair. You should message and/or email the CO to let them know what you have done to their cache.

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4 hours ago, DARKSIDEDAN said:

There is nothing wrong with a little cache repair, however firstly it should be the responsibility of the cache owner to maintain their own caches. If this is not possible there is nothing wrong with helping to keep the caches in good repair. You should message and/or email the CO to let them know what you have done to their cache.

 

A few months ago, when doing some routine cache checks, I discovered one of mine had a sodden logbook that was falling apart.

 

DSC_0387.jpg.14cdadcba4593e9772deae411aec5edb.jpg

 

After disabling the listing, I took it home to see if I could figure out how the water got in. It soon became obvious when I examined the underside of the wooden container.

 

20200821_151646.jpg.402cd9eea8faec5e3a1d126e93a2f6c2.jpg

 

Although it lives under a rock ledge, it can still get a little damp under there in heavy rain and it probably didn't help that a previous finder didn't push it all the way in but left it partially exposed. I thought about repairing it, but the closer I looked the worse it was so I ended up binning it and buying a new one. The first step was to apply a waterproof coating all over to better protect the wood.

 

DSC_0058.jpg.6059d4c7adaeaa142e1261e975a92ae6.jpg

 

Then I added a synthetic rubber base to lift it above any water than might get in under the ledge.

 

20200821_190145.jpg.ca84c1e1bab8d29d1860bb5091b1f1a9.jpg

 

Once it was all dry, a new label was attached and it was all set to go back into service.

 

20200821_213757.jpg.daaa2d232ad594650c36492cd923ebcd.jpg

 

Finally I gave it a nice shiny new logbook.

 

20200821_152540.jpg.0dae41c2e70a761c20bb92b49f9bf385.jpg

 

I was glad I'd discovered it before anyone else did. My worst nightmare would be someone, thinking they were doing the right thing and not wanting to put me to any trouble, might have just turfed the old logbook and replaced it with a scrap of paper in a baggie, leaving me none the wiser that there was any problem.

 

By all means replace a damp log, but make sure that the reason it's damp isn't a damaged container because if it is, the next time it rains your replacement log will end up just as much a sodden mess as the one it replaced. Maybe there are some COs who feel insulted by NM logs, and maybe there are some who just don't care, but there are still some of us who want to know about any problems. For me, an NM would be the best way of grabbing my attention.

 

Edited by barefootjeff
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Very nicely done, I love caches like that where the CO took a bit of effort and made a nice container rather than just using tupperware.

 

I've currently got two caches out in the wild, and I specifically put in the cache page requesting people log an NM if needed so that I can go and sort it out. Like you said - fix the problem rather than alleviate the symptom. :)

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3 hours ago, barefootjeff said:

 

A few months ago, when doing some routine cache checks, I discovered one of mine had a sodden logbook that was falling apart.

 

DSC_0387.jpg.14cdadcba4593e9772deae411aec5edb.jpg

 

After disabling the listing, I took it home so see if I could figure out how the water got in. It soon became obvious when I examined the underside of the wooden container.

 

20200821_151646.jpg.402cd9eea8faec5e3a1d126e93a2f6c2.jpg

 

Although it lives under a rock ledge, it can still get a little damp under there in heavy rain and it probably didn't help that a previous finder didn't push it all the way in but left it partially exposed. I thought about repairing it, but the closer I looked the worse it was so I ended up binning it and buying a new one. The first step was to apply a waterproof coating all over to better protect the wood.

 

DSC_0058.jpg.6059d4c7adaeaa142e1261e975a92ae6.jpg

 

Then I added a synthetic rubber base to lift it above any water than might get in under the ledge.

 

20200821_190145.jpg.ca84c1e1bab8d29d1860bb5091b1f1a9.jpg

 

Once it was all dry, a new label was attached and it was all set to go back into service.

 

20200821_213757.jpg.daaa2d232ad594650c36492cd923ebcd.jpg

 

Finally I gave it a nice shiny new logbook.

 

20200821_152540.jpg.0dae41c2e70a761c20bb92b49f9bf385.jpg

 

I was glad I'd discovered it before anyone else did. My worst nightmare would be someone, thinking they were doing the right thing and not wanting to put me to any trouble, might have just turfed the old logbook and replaced it with a scrap of paper in a baggie, leaving me none the wiser that there was any problem.

 

By all means replace a damp log, but make sure that the reason it's damp isn't a damaged container because if it is, the next time it rains your replacement log will end up just as much a sodden mess as the one it replaced. Maybe there are some COs who feel insulted by NM logs, and maybe there are some who just don't care, but there are still some of us who want to know about any problems. For me, an NM would be the best way of grabbing my attention.

 

That synthetic rubber base looks like it could do service as an ammo can seal. Maybe?

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I found a "cache" recently that was nothing more than an empty camoed bottle. Previous logs for more than a year had mentioned that the top was gone and log was missing but numerous players had claimed the 'find'.

 

Because it was in a scenic place and had been placed there in 2007 with hundreds of finds, I decided to do some maintenance when I visited. I brought my cache bag which contains spare containers, logs, swag and pencils. By chance, one of my spare containers' lids fit the cache perfectly. I added some swag and signed the fresh, new log. I don't always rescue neglected caches, but in this case, I felt this cache was worth saving, even with a non-responsive CO.

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1 hour ago, G0ldNugget said:

I found a "cache" recently that was nothing more than an empty camoed bottle. Previous logs for more than a year had mentioned that the top was gone and log was missing but numerous players had claimed the 'find'.

 

Because it was in a scenic place and had been placed there in 2007 with hundreds of finds, I decided to do some maintenance when I visited. I brought my cache bag which contains spare containers, logs, swag and pencils. By chance, one of my spare containers' lids fit the cache perfectly. I added some swag and signed the fresh, new log. I don't always rescue neglected caches, but in this case, I felt this cache was worth saving, even with a non-responsive CO.

 

We all have different thoughts on this. In response to the bolded part of your reply, mine is not to prop up a cache owned by a CO that is not going to maintain it. Unless an adoption can be arranged, a cache in this situation needs to be archived. As mentioned above, caches like these hinder our hobby.

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If I run across a problem like this, and there's nothing wrong with the container, just a problem with the technique of the previous finder (e.g., poor closure of an otherwise proper container), I'll do what I can to help the COs out regarding the log, and let them know a) the nature of the problem, and b) what was done to remedy it.

Even the closure of a 30 cal can be botched by a novice.  Why not pitch in?

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2 hours ago, Mudfrog said:

a cache in this situation needs to be archived. As mentioned above, caches like these hinder our hobby.

 

I think the previous players who claimed a find on an empty jar are the ones that hinder our hobby. A bit of basic maintenance on a cache that has been in place for so long and provided so many smiles over the years seemed reasonable to me.

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2 minutes ago, G0ldNugget said:

 

I think the previous players who claimed a find on an empty jar are the ones that hinder our hobby. A bit of basic maintenance on a cache that has been in place for so long and provided so many smiles over the years seemed reasonable to me.

 

It depends. Adding a new logbook would be a priority in any case, so you can log your find legally (a bit :D). In my opinion it is much better to archive this kind of caches and then maybe some other cacher (or even you) can create something better. But if the cache is in the middle of nowhere, a little maintenance (overall) is more reasonable.

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39 minutes ago, sernikk said:

 

It depends. Adding a new logbook would be a priority in any case, so you can log your find legally (a bit :D). In my opinion it is much better to archive this kind of caches and then maybe some other cacher (or even you) can create something better. But if the cache is in the middle of nowhere, a little maintenance (overall) is more reasonable.

 

Yes. As a general rule, if I find a cache in a poor state of repair I'll log an NM, or if there are already outstanding NMs I'll log an NA, but there are exceptions, particularly when it's an old remote cache that's lasted well but just needs a bit of help to give it many more years of life. There's one I found just on a year ago in fairly remote bushland that had been placed in 2003. Its container was a 2 litre Sistema hidden deep under a rock ledge that protected it well from sun and rain, but a nearby fire a few years back had caused the plastic to become brittle and crazed. The original logbook was still bone dry and in pretty much mint condition.

 

ContainerAndLog.jpg.2a4de49a1131fa27d8009c9dc9fa2d3f.jpg

 

For a few dollars at the local supermarket I could obtain a new container identical to the original, which I did and swapped them over after finding the cache. Barring another fire, this will likely give it at least another decade of life and, with the number of finds it gets, that original logbook will probably still have plenty of room in it. The owner hasn't been active for many years, but had I logged an NM and that had been followed up with an NA or a CHS intervention, there's little likelihood anyone else would have hidden a new cache in the area since, in the 17 years since it was placed, no-one else has hidden anything out along that 5km spur.

 

The question which has to be asked in cases like this where the owner is long gone is whether the caching community will benefit more from a repair or an archival. Sure, it's still a cache with an absent owner, but if anything bad does happen to it in the years ahead it can be archived then and if that occurs I'm happy to go back out there to retrieve the remains. But in the meantime, it's still there for cachers to enjoy.

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3 hours ago, barefootjeff said:

 

Yes. As a general rule, if I find a cache in a poor state of repair I'll log an NM, or if there are already outstanding NMs I'll log an NA, but there are exceptions, particularly when it's an old remote cache that's lasted well but just needs a bit of help to give it many more years of life. There's one I found just on a year ago in fairly remote bushland that had been placed in 2003. Its container was a 2 litre Sistema hidden deep under a rock ledge that protected it well from sun and rain, but a nearby fire a few years back had caused the plastic to become brittle and crazed. The original logbook was still bone dry and in pretty much mint condition.

 

ContainerAndLog.jpg.2a4de49a1131fa27d8009c9dc9fa2d3f.jpg

 

For a few dollars at the local supermarket I could obtain a new container identical to the original, which I did and swapped them over after finding the cache. Barring another fire, this will likely give it at least another decade of life and, with the number of finds it gets, that original logbook will probably still have plenty of room in it. The owner hasn't been active for many years, but had I logged an NM and that had been followed up with an NA or a CHS intervention, there's little likelihood anyone else would have hidden a new cache in the area since, in the 17 years since it was placed, no-one else has hidden anything out along that 5km spur.

 

The question which has to be asked in cases like this where the owner is long gone is whether the caching community will benefit more from a repair or an archival. Sure, it's still a cache with an absent owner, but if anything bad does happen to it in the years ahead it can be archived then and if that occurs I'm happy to go back out there to retrieve the remains. But in the meantime, it's still there for cachers to enjoy.

 

I could not have put it better myself barefootjeff, Well said.

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On 11/21/2020 at 6:07 PM, barefootjeff said:

Once it was all dry, a new label was attached and it was all set to go back into service.

 

20200821_213757.jpg.daaa2d232ad594650c36492cd923ebcd.jpg

 

 

Just an addendum to this. The new container went into position in August and, in spite of a lot of heavy rain and storms since then, it was still bone dry inside and out when I checked on it this morning. It looks like my repairs have fixed the issue that caused the wet logbook in the old one.

Edited by barefootjeff
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20 hours ago, ecanderson said:

Even the closure of a 30 cal can be botched by a novice. 

Yep. I've seen a number of novices struggle to reseal ammo cans that they had just opened. Heaven help them if the hinges slide apart and the top is loose from the container!

 

But I digress...

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I've replaced logs and containers a few times.  When I do, I take the old with me and notify the CO and ask if they would like me to send them.  Never a response.  What really needs to be done is for more cachers to post NM logs.  I recently found one where all that was left was the lid and the top half of the container.  Posted NM, but likely won't be fixed as the CO has not been active for almost two years.  I track it, and someone else with over 12k finds found it after I did, and said nothing about it's condition. 

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