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Garmin GPSMAP 65 series announced on 2020-09-24


gpsblake
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1 hour ago, jakewa said:

Would like to know how much that quad helix antenna makes a difference? 

If it doesn't make a noticeable improvement, then rather buy a smaller, lighter, more compact model.

 

Maybe I'm not understanding, but most of us deep in the woods even use them for geocaching.    :)

We started in '04 with blue etrex legends using patch antennas. 

Just normal tree cover had us searching for an open spot on the trail to regain signal.

Around a year later we bought a couple 60csx with quad helix.  The first time on, we got signal in the basement...

 - I've gotten bounce at times (some boulder fields and river gorges), but have never lost signal.

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6 hours ago, jakewa said:

Would like to know how much that quad helix antenna makes a difference?  If it doesn't make a noticeable improvement, then rather buy a smaller, lighter, more compact model.

 

Just my unprofessional opinion, but it seems the 60-66 series of units pulls in satellites closer to the horizon better than say an Oregon, thus, leading to maybe a little bit more accuracy because of better triangulation. Not noticeable for geocaching though, any unit these days is going to get you where you need to be, especially if you account that geocache accuracy also depends on the person who placed the cache. 

 

I guess they chose the 65 name because the units look nearly identical to the 64s and probably act similar to the end user, still seems though Garmin is coming with new units to compete with itself.  Good for the consumer, maybe we will see a price drop for the 64 series. 

Edited by gpsblake
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The 65 appears to be using the same case as the 64 series. It's even advertised to use the mini-USB connection rather than the newer, but already outdated, micro-USB that Garmin is putting on the rest of its current lineup. I'm scratching my head here because the GPSMap lineup got upgraded/new additions twice now since the Oregon was last updated, and usually the Oregon is the line that Garmin releases with brand new features. It was the first to see GLONASS (or was it the eTrex?), the first to have bluetooth, the first to have wifi (Monterra not counting). I'm a little confused as to what Garmin is doing by diversifying this line so much. It's not like everyone who bought a 66s recently is now running out to buy the 66sr. Right? We're not all buying new iPhones every 6 months...

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2 hours ago, Mineral2 said:

The 65 appears to be using the same case as the 64 series. 

 

Yes, the GPSMAP 65 is an evolution of the GPSMAP 64, with improved Multi-Band and Multi-GNSS capabilities.

 

The GPSMAP 65 does include some minor chassis shape and dimensional changes.

  

2 hours ago, Mineral2 said:

It's even advertised to use the mini-USB connection rather than the newer, but already outdated, micro-USB that Garmin is putting on the rest of its current lineup. 

 

Being that the GPSMAP 65 is an evolutionary update to the GPSMAP 64, the Mini-USB port was retained.

  

2 hours ago, Mineral2 said:

I'm scratching my head here because the GPSMap lineup got upgraded/new additions twice now since the Oregon was last updated, and usually the Oregon is the line that Garmin releases with brand new features. It was the first to see GLONASS (or was it the eTrex?).

 

Based on past patterns, the Oregon is due for another update any time now... But, the Oregon 7x0 is so rock solid and capable, there may not be any reason to update it... yet.

 

The eTrex x0 series was the first commercial consumer grade GPSr to use GLONASS.

  

2 hours ago, Mineral2 said:

I'm a little confused as to what Garmin is doing by diversifying this line so much. It's not like everyone who bought a 66s recently is now running out to buy the 66sr. Right?

 

The  GPSMAP 66s/st was released just about two years ago now.

 

Anyone who only 'recently' purchased a GPSMAP 66s/st should not be too surprised to see a new version being released.

 

And with both Multi-Band and Multi-GNSS in combination with a 36 hour per charge run time during normal use (450 hours in Expedition Mode)... Who wouldn't want one?

 

  

2 hours ago, Mineral2 said:

We're not all buying new iPhones every 6 months...

 

No, but it seems the trend for many is to upgrade either annually or every other year.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Atlas Cached
typos... always typos
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7 minutes ago, MaliBooBoo said:

So the GPSMAP 66sr is more accurate than the GPSMAP 66st?

 

Yes.

 

More accurate and more precise.

 

• Multi-Band provides advanced multipath mitigation and atmospheric correction on the device, negating any need for WAAS-EGNOS.

 

• Multi-GNSS is improved to allow use of all available supported GNSS constellations simultaneously, using the best signals from each. Previous devices were only able to connect to GPS + GLONASS or GALILEO, but never all three.

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On 10/1/2020 at 1:48 PM, Atlas Cached said:

 

Yes.

 

More accurate and more precise.

 

• Multi-Band provides advanced multipath mitigation and atmospheric correction on the device, negating any need for WAAS-EGNOS.

 

• Multi-GNSS is improved to allow use of all available supported GNSS constellations simultaneously, using the best signals from each. Previous devices were only able to connect to GPS + GLONASS or GALILEO, but never all three.

 

 

Can't change the battery pack at all ? No AA option either like the ST it seems.

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51 minutes ago, capt caper said:

Can't change the battery pack at all ? No AA option either like the ST it seems.

 

Nope.

 

I didn't like that initially either. But then I realized the 'advertised' 36 hour run time under normal use, and >450 hours in Expedition mode. Per charge. 

 

And it is just as easy to carry a small portable power bank as it is to carry extra AA-batteries. Which I never have, because with my GPSMAP 66s/st units, I always connect them to USB power when available to keep the batteries 'topped off', which is just as easy,  but far less frequently necessary, with the 66sr.

 

The GPSMAP 66sr is like the energizer bunny! 

 

It just keeps going.... and going.... and going....

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1 hour ago, Mineral2 said:

That's all fine and good for a while, but batteries lose their capacity over cycles of use. You know how some people are still using their 60csx 15 or so years later? The same can't be said about a device with a built-in battery.

 

Well, if you can't handle six torx screws and a single 4 pin push on connector when the time comes.....

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I rarely need to change batteries. Usually it's because I forgot to charge them or didn't have time. In one case I gave mine to my wife who forgot to charge her's. I then used the Garmin pack I carry for backup which wouldn't of worked in her's. 680 vs 66st. 

 

The technology has gotten to a good point with rechargables. I would assume Garmin has used a quality product in that system. 

 

On a side note I saw a review were he compared the 66st vs 66sr  and 65 and 64. He said by going to the 65 you get a larger upgrade and retain the accuracy gains of the new system. And can still have battery changes. Good point by the smaller screen turns me off. 

I hope the 680 get's a upgrade to the new multi gps system soon actually like these others have.

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On 10/4/2020 at 8:03 PM, Atlas Cached said:

 

If my premonition is correct, you will get something like that, but it will not be named 'Montana'.

 

Too bad they stole the name. As this new Montana is no way near what it was.  So we have the choice now from a small unit like the 66SR to the Brick Montanna. 

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On 9/24/2020 at 5:06 PM, cerberus1 said:

 

Maybe I'm not understanding, but most of us deep in the woods even use them for geocaching.    :)

We started in '04 with blue etrex legends using patch antennas. 

Just normal tree cover had us searching for an open spot on the trail to regain signal.

Around a year later we bought a couple 60csx with quad helix.  The first time on, we got signal in the basement...

 - I've gotten bounce at times (some boulder fields and river gorges), but have never lost signal.

You can't beat a quad.........I had a signal geocaching in a volcanic crack about 10 feet wide and 80 feet deep......great in deep woods......I have dozens of GPS and all but 2 have the quad.

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I just received an email from a vendor introducing the new 65 and 66sr models. I've been waiting for these for a couple of years so I'm pretty excited.

 

The only problem now is, should I wait for a Montana-style model with multi-band, or go for the 66sr? I need reading glasses, so the bigger screen is a big plus.

 

I had a 60CSx before, and one thing I remember about it was that entering text was a pain. And the screen felt tiny.

 

Is it fact that the helix antenna is better than the antenna in, e.g. the Montana (mine is the 650)? I've suspected that my old 60CSx was more accurate than the Montana 650 but I don't have proof.

 

It would be cool if we could organize a geocaching "group buy" of these new models.

 

...oh hey, I hadn't heard of the Montana 700 series until right now. That, with multi-band, is probably what I want. I guess I have to wait...

Edited by miblaa
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I want a Montana 700 (No inReach Garbage to muck it all up, which it does quite well), and will have to give up the Camera and pre-installed City Navigator maps in so doing (doesn't seem right that the 700 is only $100 less than a 700i that includes both lifetime City Navigator maps AND inReach Capabilities, or that the 750i price adds another $100 on top of that just for the addition of an eight year old camera?).

 

I was going to order one, but then the GPSMAP 65/66 seris came out, and the Multi-Band/Multi-GNSS works so well on those that I may never buy another model without those features.

 

So.... I also am going to wait for a Montana 7x0 with Multi-Band....

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It was time to get a new GPS unit so I bought the new MAPGPS 65s.  Right out of the box I started having issues.  I would load a group of caches and confirm they were indeed in my unit.  However, when I turned the unit off and then back on, all of my data disappeared as caches and only to be found as waypoints.  The problem is as everyone knows, waypoints lack the usability of caches.  I contacted Garmin and the gentleman who was helping me just happened to have his MAPGPS 65s with him.  He tried loaded caches onto his unit, checked to see if they were there, and when he powered his unit on/off the same thing happened.  I downloaded and sent all the files from my unit to their tech staff.  I'll post the results and the solutions here.

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On 10/22/2020 at 8:51 AM, tundrabums said:

It was time to get a new GPS unit so I bought the new MAPGPS 65s.  Right out of the box I started having issues.  I would load a group of caches and confirm they were indeed in my unit.  However, when I turned the unit off and then back on, all of my data disappeared as caches and only to be found as waypoints.  The problem is as everyone knows, waypoints lack the usability of caches.  I contacted Garmin and the gentleman who was helping me just happened to have his MAPGPS 65s with him.  He tried loaded caches onto his unit, checked to see if they were there, and when he powered his unit on/off the same thing happened.  I downloaded and sent all the files from my unit to their tech staff.  I'll post the results and the solutions here.

Ah, thanks for this report. I experienced exactly the same issue a few days ago and had a chat with Garmin. They forwarded it to the developers. I also explained the issue in the gpsrchive forum (see the thread here) but it couldn't be reproduced by other users. In any case, please keep us informed. :)

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On 10/1/2020 at 10:48 AM, Atlas Cached said:

 

Yes.

 

More accurate and more precise.

 

• Multi-Band provides advanced multipath mitigation and atmospheric correction on the device, negating any need for WAAS-EGNOS.

 

• Multi-GNSS is improved to allow use of all available supported GNSS constellations simultaneously, using the best signals from each. Previous devices were only able to connect to GPS + GLONASS or GALILEO, but never all three.


I understand that in theory, the new 66sr should be more accurate, but has this been proven in a review? Apparently I’m reading that it have 1 meter accuracy? I don’t see anything in the PR that it can use all 3 constellations simultaneously. 

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On 10/3/2020 at 4:53 PM, Atlas Cached said:

 

Nope.

 

I didn't like that initially either. But then I realized the 'advertised' 36 hour run time under normal use, and >450 hours in Expedition mode. Per charge. 

 

And it is just as easy to carry a small portable power bank as it is to carry extra AA-batteries. Which I never have, because with my GPSMAP 66s/st units, I always connect them to USB power when available to keep the batteries 'topped off', which is just as easy,  but far less frequently necessary, with the 66sr.

 

The GPSMAP 66sr is like the energizer bunny! 

 

It just keeps going.... and going.... and going....


How big is the battery? If I were to record a trackpoint every second, how long will the battery last if I have the screen at the lowest setting or even 50%? How long will it take to fully recharge the internal battery?

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On 10/4/2020 at 5:08 AM, capt caper said:

I rarely need to change batteries. Usually it's because I forgot to charge them or didn't have time. In one case I gave mine to my wife who forgot to charge her's. I then used the Garmin pack I carry for backup which wouldn't of worked in her's. 680 vs 66st. 

 

The technology has gotten to a good point with rechargables. I would assume Garmin has used a quality product in that system. 

 

On a side note I saw a review were he compared the 66st vs 66sr  and 65 and 64. He said by going to the 65 you get a larger upgrade and retain the accuracy gains of the new system. And can still have battery changes. Good point by the smaller screen turns me off. 

I hope the 680 get's a upgrade to the new multi gps system soon actually like these others have.


So the 65 have all of the GPS technology that the 66sr have, but come with a smaller screen and uses AA batteries?

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13 minutes ago, Sgt_Strider said:

I understand that in theory, the new 66sr should be more accurate, but has this been proven in a review? Apparently I’m reading that it have 1 meter accuracy? I don’t see anything in the PR that it can use all 3 constellations simultaneously. 

 

GPSrChive demonstrates how the GPSMAP 66sr uses all GPS constellations simultaneously. Better yet, it even shows how it uses both L1 and L5 satellite signals simultaneously, providing estimated accuracy readings below 2 meters.

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15 minutes ago, Sgt_Strider said:


How big is the battery? If I were to record a trackpoint every second, how long will the battery last if I have the screen at the lowest setting or even 50%? How long will it take to fully recharge the internal battery?

 

See the Specifications page at GPSrChive for battery info.

 

I use my 66sr all weekend long and still have >1/2 battery charge available.

 

The Lithium battery in the GPSMAP 66sr charges much more quickly than NiMH batteries do in the GPSMAP 66s/st.

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5 hours ago, Atlas Cached said:

The Lithium battery in the GPSMAP 66sr charges much more quickly than NiMH batteries do in the GPSMAP 66s/st.


That's not what concerns me with a built-in or even replaceable lithium-ion battery. In 4 years, when the battery won't hold a good charge, will Garmin still be selling replacement batteries? Or for the devices with a built-in battery, will I have to replace my GPS? 

I don't see these devices as phones or computers. They're tools that can still work independently of technological advances. In 10 years, will Garmin still be selling replacement batteries? Because in 10 years, I know I can still buy a pack of AA batteries - alkaline or NiMH rechargeable.

It's bad enough that my phone lasts maybe 5 years before I'm "forced" to replace it. I don't think a GPS, which is originally designed to be an offline device, should be quite that disposable.

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There are shops that specialize in replacing phone batteries.  If they can crack the nut open (looking at you Apple), they can jam* in a replacement battery of approximately the right size.  If anything, Garmins should be easier to open than a typical phone.

 

(* I opened a camping lantern to find a soft lithium battery pack inside.  The corners were folded back, and the whole thing had a jammed-in look.  Until then I never knew batteries could be bent/folded/stuffed like that.)

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20 hours ago, Atlas Cached said:

GPSrChive demonstrates how the GPSMAP 66sr uses all GPS constellations simultaneously.

I have a general interest in this topic but from your link I only found Pages>Setup>System>Multi-GNSS (no deep link possible) which only explains what it is but no demonstration of the effects or improvements. Am I missing something?

 

What I would like to understand is eg if such receiver has contact to say 2 Sats from GPS, 2 Sats from Galileio and 2 Sats from Baidou can a position be calculated or is any improvement dependent on  getting the necessary number of Sats (3 or 4) for each system independently.

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4 hours ago, Hynz said:

I have a general interest in this topic but from your link I only found Pages>Setup>System>Multi-GNSS (no deep link possible) which only explains what it is but no demonstration of the effects or improvements. Am I missing something?

 

That path is for the Multi-GNSS feature, which refers to the devices ability to use Multiple GNSS (Global Navigation Satellite Systems) simultaneously. Where all previous models were limited to either GPS only, GPS + GLONASS, or GPS + Galileo, the new 'Multi-GNSS' models can use GPS + GLONASS + Galileo + NavIC + QZSS simultaneously. For those who are not keeping track, that is one or two satellite systems on the older models, and five satellite systems on the new models.

 

But it doesn't stop there.

 

Just below the link for 'Multi-GNSS' you referenced above is another link for 'Multi-BAND'.

 

The Multi-BAND feature refers to the newer models ability to use multiple signals from each satellite on different frequency bands. Traditionally, all consumer grade GPSr have used the 'L1' band. As the 'Multi-BAND' link at the page referenced above explains:

 

Quote

Multi-Band Advantages

  • GNSS Signals
    • All GNSS signals include these essential components:
      • Pseudorandom Noise Code (PRN) - Identifies the satellite transmitting the signal.
      • Almanac - Coarse orbital parameters for all satellites in the constellation (updates every six days).
      • Ephemeris - Precise orbital and clock correction data specific to the transmitting satellite (updates every two hours).
    • Modern satellite signals (L5/E5a) may also contain additional optional elements providing:
      • Reduced cross-correlation and interference.
      • Improved data synchronization.
      • Multipath mitigation.
         
  • L5/E5a vs L1/E1
    • When used in combination with L1/E1 signals, L5/E5a signals can provide:
      • Improved accuracy via ionospheric correction (WAAS/EGNOS no longer required).
      • Superior multipath recognition and correction capabilities.
      • Enhanced robustness via signal redundancy.
    • L5/E5a signals exhibit superior detection characteristics over L1/E1 signals due to:
      • Higher signal transmission power level (-3.6dB).
      • Better signal to noise ratio (SNR).
      • Greater bandwidth.
    • The L5/E5a frequency band is internationally recognized and protected.

 

If you also open the link referenced above and navigate to 'Pages > Satellite' you can see examples for all GPS configurations, including an example where the GPSr indicates a positional accuracy error estimated at 6 feet, or 1.8 meters. This is roughly the distance between your head and toes.

 

  

4 hours ago, Hynz said:

What I would like to understand is eg if such receiver has contact to say 2 Sats from GPS, 2 Sats from Galileio and 2 Sats from Baidou can a position be calculated or is any improvement dependent on  getting the necessary number of Sats (3 or 4) for each system independently.

 

While I have never encountered a scenario where only two GPS satellites were available at any one given time, and I doubt anyone ever will, the combination you provide above is more than enough to calculate the users position, and those coordinates will be even more accurate when Multi-BAND is enabled.

 

 

 

Edited by Atlas Cached
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