As popular as before? Geocaching?

[+CleverCloggs]

I have just started geocaching. Did lots of research before I signed up and read all the relevant guidelines etc.. Even made myself a premium member! 

 

I had no idea it has been 20 years on the go! quite an amazing thing....

The caches I have found are dated many many years ago, few broken and missing etc...   So my question is... is this still as prevalent as it was , lets say 10 years ago?  Can you hide caches without waiting a long time for publishing? *3 days so far*  as maybe there are not enough volunteers?  or is is at the same level? 

 

Thoughts please... especially from those who are long term treasure hunters... 

Clevercloggs  

[+lee737]

4 minutes ago, CleverCloggs said:

So my question is... is this still as prevalent as it was , lets say 10 years ago?  Can you hide caches without waiting a long time for publishing?

 

I've been caching for 6 years.... so can't comment on 10 years ago - I do get the impression from reading logs from caches from 7-10 years ago, that at least in this area, there were more highly active players then than now, with FTF races and a higher turnover of hides. There has been a decline in no of finds overall from my notification inbox, which shows total logs for the 80km radius from my home, purging on a 7d cycle. Previously there would be 800-1000+ emails in there, now maybe 200-500, with short term peaks at souvenir times....

If your area has broken/missing caches, log needs maintenance logs to get them fixed/removed.

Cache publication here is rarely longer than 3-4 days, I hid one on Sunday and it published yesterday, which is average, but I've had them publish in 10 minutes and 5-6 days too....

 

and - welcome!

[+CleverCloggs]

1 minute ago, lee737 said:

 

2 minutes ago, lee737 said:

f your area has broken/missing caches, log needs maintenance logs to get them fixed/removed.

 

I have reported them that are broken...   I will start putting out really cool caches as soon as my first one is published.. thanks for the insight...  I even found a log book with no log on the site.. so maybe a few are being taken down...    

[Darwin473]

15 minutes ago, CleverCloggs said:

I have reported them that are broken...

 

Quick question - how are you reporting?

 

I've seen lots of logs where a finder has made a note in their log saying there is an issue, but this won't really attract much attention. Unless the CO (Cache Owner) regularly checks the logs, in which case they probably stop by for maintenance every so often and prevent any issues from developing.

 

The Needs Maintenance (NM) attribute is to attract the attention of the CO. Something like a full or faulty (wet, torn, missing) log, broken container or other issue that can be fixed by the CO coming out to do a maintenance run. Generally, there ought to be several of these noted before going up to the next level to give the CO a chance to fix the issue. Although, I have read about some CO's getting rather upset about people using the NM tag, which I find rather odd. If a CO has a go at you for logging NM, don't stress too much about it. But you are more than welcome to ask in the forums (or on a local Facebook page or other group if there is one local to your area) to double check that you did the right thing.

 

The "top level" log you can submit for something being wrong is Needs Archive (NA). The NA flags the attention of the local Reviewer, and they'll generally give the CO 30 days or so to rectify the situation. Generally, this would be used when several of these conditions are met:

• The cache (or remains) have positively been found, and the cache is beyond repair.
• The CO has not been active in over a year.
• There are three or more NM logs already.
• The cache is in a dangerous, inappropriate or other unsuitable location.
• Conditions at the cache location have changed and it is now unsuitable (example: used to be open bushland years earlier but urban creep has now put a school right next to it) 

Not all of these need to be met, and no one item is a cache-killer. But if you find a cache that meets several of these conditions, there is no reason why you can't log an NA on that cache. Though as a new player, there's no problem with you finding a more experienced cacher and sharing your concerns before hitting NA. You don't have to log when you are there on site, you can log NA days or weeks later if you want to check with other people first.

 

If possible, it's usually a good idea to photograph anything in the area to support your reasons. Example: if a cache was listed in being in a tree, and the tree was blown over in a storm and cut up and taken away by the council, and the CO hasn't logged in for years - photograph where the tree was and make a note in the log about the directions, the status of the CO, etc so that the Reviewer sees all your evidence in one go.

 

Note that if a cache has lots of DNF's already and you can't find it either, that's not a reason to log either NM or NA. It is quite possible that there is an issue, but a simple DNF should be sufficient if you can't find it. There can be a number of reasons for a series of DNF's, I've seen logs on caches that had a series of DNF's and then the CO came out and noted "still in the right spot". 

 

As you get more experience, you'll have a better idea of when you don't need to do anything, when to log a NM and when a NA.

Edited September 23, 2020 by Unit473L
Added details about NA option

[+CleverCloggs]

Thanks so much for the info... I actually take photos of the dead caches too, then it can be sent directly to the owner.. One I found, was totally destroyed, but I also found two other of the same persons caches and they were fine, and I logged as per the rules. So maybe they will change them. 

I am in Portugal and the sun is baking in the summer, so well hidden, safe and out of the sun is a good start... also no fire hazards stuff either... 

[+on4bam]

Just a thought. You found 6 caches so far. Only traditionals. Maybe it's better to find some more, some different cachetypes.

 

As for "reporting". That's done by posting a "needs maintenance" log. Just mentioning a problem in four found it log can easily be missed by the CO.

 

 

[+CleverCloggs]

9 minutes ago, Unit473L said:

Quick question - how are you reporting?

I photograph then message the cache owner. 

[+CleverCloggs]

Just now, on4bam said:

Just a thought. You found 6 caches so far. Only traditionals. Maybe it's better to find some more, some different cachetypes.

 

As for "reporting". That's done by posting a "needs maintenance" log. Just mentioning a problem in four found it log can easily be missed by the CO.

 

 

yes, I did that as well  they were traditionals...

[+frostengel]

32 minutes ago, CleverCloggs said:

I had no idea it has been 20 years on the go! quite an amazing thing....

The caches I have found are dated many many years ago, few broken and missing etc...

 

Something has changed: the number of new cachers encreased as the hobby is more known today and with more mobile phone apps and better mobile phones it is much easier to start. I started about 12 years ago and as I needed a GPS device it wasn't that easy.

Especially the number of "short time cachers" - meaning people trying it out, find some, hide some (too quickly) and then stop it - encreased. That might explain the unmaintained caches that you found!? They might be from cachers that dropped one out and then stopped being interested in geocaching.

 

I hope I am wrong but you might be such a cacher, too. Bying premium the first day, finding 6 caches, starting to hide some immediately ("I will start putting out really cool caches as soon as my first one is published."). I hope you'll stay and maintain your cool caches. :-)

 

Jochen

[+CleverCloggs]

1 minute ago, on4bam said:

Just a thought. You found 6 caches so far. Only traditionals. Maybe it's better to find some more, some different cachetypes.

found travel bugs too..Not good with the micros yet, and Im in a team, with a couple so we have found lots more different caches, but I only log my personal ones  

1 minute ago, on4bam said:

 

 

 

[+CleverCloggs]

2 minutes ago, frostengel said:

 

 

Especially the number of "short time cachers" - meaning people trying it out, find some, hide some (too quickly) and then stop it - encreased. That might explain the unmaintained caches that you found!? They might be from cachers that dropped one out and then stopped being interested in geocaching.

 

 

I was wondering if its the fact that many of these are from 2012 and before, and they have been uninterested in them. I think its great fun and look forward to getting some really cool ones out there, with multiple clues and some good searches. I'm out every day at the mo,

[+CleverCloggs]

Travel bugs on cars.. You have to have eyes in the back of your head LOL  detective clevercloggs LOL 

[+dprovan]

Geocaching is way more popular that it was 10 years ago. Publishing time I've heard about are on the order of days, with overnight being fairly common.

 

Having said that, popularity ebbs and flows from place to place and time to time. Looking at your list of finds, you may be somewhere where the geocaching community is small and there haven't been any active hiders lately. In other words, they've been waiting for you! In addition, you haven't done that many caches, so don't give up yet. I suspect that you've started in a pocket of old caches and that you'll find more and better ones as you wander further afield.

[+CleverCloggs]

I shall certainly up the game when I am able, I love doing puzzles and so will get started when I can.  There are not as many here as say in a city.. its 7km to my nearest neighbour.. but that's fine I can drive :) 

Found quite a few old caches.. I will hopefully help to breath new life into this area with some fun stuff especially for the kids :) 

[+CleverCloggs]

7 hours ago, CleverCloggs said:

found travel bugs too..Not good with the micros yet, and Im in a team, with a couple so we have found lots more different caches, but I only log my personal ones  

 

Most of the caches around my area are just traditional..  but will go further afield soon. 

[+cerberus1]

8 hours ago, CleverCloggs said:

I have just started geocaching. Did lots of research before I signed up and read all the relevant guidelines etc.. Even made myself a premium member! 

I had no idea it has been 20 years on the go! quite an amazing thing....

The caches I have found are dated many many years ago, few broken and missing etc...   So my question is... is this still as prevalent as it was , lets say 10 years ago?  Can you hide caches without waiting a long time for publishing? *3 days so far*  as maybe there are not enough volunteers?  or is is at the same level? 

 

Thoughts please... especially from those who are long term treasure hunters... 

 

Sorta long-time cacher here.      We wouldn't think of calling this location hobby treasure hunting.

This hobby has grown considerably.  Some feel it's gotten too popular because of the false idea there's "treasure" in the woods...

 

The average wait time for caches published by a Reviewer is seven days.  Most are much earlier.  Seven days isn't a long time.

Often someone asks about publish times, to find they either didn't hit "submit", or failed to notice the Reviewer's note explaining an issue.  

 

[+CleverCloggs]

I think the very thought of going on treasure hunts.. isn't the fact that there is some thing to gain, other than lots of fun

 

 

[+cerberus1]

7 hours ago, CleverCloggs said:

Travel bugs on cars.. You have to have eyes in the back of your head LOL  detective clevercloggs LOL 

 

When this virus is done, and more Events can be created,  it's a simple walk about the parking lot.  

[+CleverCloggs]

1 minute ago, cerberus1 said:

 

When this virus is done, and more Events can be created,  it's a simple walk about the parking lot.  

SO looking forward to that..,. I found my first one on a taxi!!! 

[+cerberus1]

Just now, CleverCloggs said:

I think the very thought of going on treasure hunts.. isn't the fact that there is some thing to gain, other than lots of fun

 

We've seen a few logs from free app members in our area, saying  they "took some treasure", and the next cachers mention trackables missing.

They didn't even know what they were.

Take, instead of trade has fallen the same fate, since they're on a  "treasure hunt" these days.

The "language of location" I guess not popular with the younger crowd...

[+CleverCloggs]

10 minutes ago, cerberus1 said:

 

We've seen a few logs from free app members in our area, saying  they "took some treasure", and the next cachers mention trackables missing.

They didn't even know what they were.

Take, instead of trade has fallen the same fate, since they're on a  "treasure hunt" these days.

The "language of location" I guess not popular with the younger crowd...

could be....   In the caches I have found, I have left swag but not took any...  it was just the fun of screaming " I found it" which was the most fun.. But I am not young.. Just young at heart 

[+niraD]

19 minutes ago, cerberus1 said:

We've seen a few logs from free app members in our area, saying  they "took some treasure", and the next cachers mention trackables missing.

They didn't even know what they were.

Take, instead of trade has fallen the same fate, since they're on a  "treasure hunt" these days.

The "language of location" I guess not popular with the younger crowd...

This forum really needs a "Sad" response.

[Darwin473]

As much as I can, I try and encourage people to describe geocaching as "a global game of hide and seek" rather than a treasure hunt. But that's just me.  

[+niraD]

8 minutes ago, Unit473L said:

As much as I can, I try and encourage people to describe geocaching as "a global game of hide and seek" rather than a treasure hunt. But that's just me.  

I use the phrase "scavenger hunt" myself. It communicates the ideas that the things we're searching for are of little value in themselves. The value is in finding them.

[+thebruce0]

Yes, I too have come to almost abhor the "treasure hunt" label  Scavenger hunt emphasizes the experience, the 'scavenging', more than the 'treasury' stuff at the end, and the experience is truly where the value is. 

[+colleda]

16 hours ago, CleverCloggs said:

Thanks so much for the info... I actually take photos of the dead caches too, then it can be sent directly to the owner.. One I found, was totally destroyed, but I also found two other of the same persons caches and they were fine, and I logged as per the rules. So maybe they will change them. 

I am in Portugal and the sun is baking in the summer, so well hidden, safe and out of the sun is a good start... also no fire hazards stuff either... 

It is a shame that half of the caches you have so far found are in need of maintenance.

The last cacher to log a find on the cache where you lost your pen did not find it but left a throwdown.  Even said so in their Found It log.

BTW, I love your game name.

[Keystone]

17 hours ago, CleverCloggs said:

Can you hide caches without waiting a long time for publishing? *3 days so far*  as maybe there are not enough volunteers?  or is is at the same level?

 

I see that one of Portugal's four excellent Community Volunteer Reviewers has now begun the review process - which often takes a bit longer with new hiders, to get them off to a good start.  Initial review occurred in just a bit over three days, which is well within expectations.

[+JL_HSTRE]

19 hours ago, CleverCloggs said:

I even found a log book with no log on the site.. so maybe a few are being taken down...    

 

It might be an Archived cache (or unpublished cache if the logbook was empty). But it might also be from another geocaching site, or a non-geocaching letterbox. 

[+Goldenwattle]

18 hours ago, CleverCloggs said:

Thanks so much for the info... I actually take photos of the dead caches too, then it can be sent directly to the owner.. One I found, was totally destroyed, but I also found two other of the same persons caches and they were fine, and I logged as per the rules. So maybe they will change them. 

I am in Portugal and the sun is baking in the summer, so well hidden, safe and out of the sun is a good start... also no fire hazards stuff either... 

If the cache is really damaged, log a NM (needs maintenance). Don't just send a message to the CO. NM logs are also for the reviewer and other geocachers to know there is a problem, so this information should be for all to see. If they are a conscientious CO (cache owner) they should be pleased to get the NM. I am if there is a problem that needs fixing, and would thank the person who logged, and then go and fix the problem. There are a few strange people who get upset at NM. Ignore them, they are wrong. NMs are a way of letting the owner know about the problem, not a personal attack on anyone. If it's because you can't find the cache, log a DNF, and only log the NM after several people have logged DNFs, taking the difficult rating into consideration.

 

19 hours ago, CleverCloggs said:

I have just started geocaching. Did lots of research before I signed up and read all the relevant guidelines etc.. Even made myself a premium member! 

It's a shame that not all are as thoughtful and sensible as you to do this . Welcome to geocaching.

[+Max and 99]

20 hours ago, CleverCloggs said:

Can you hide caches without waiting a long time for publishing? *3 days so far*  as maybe there are not enough volunteers?  or is is at the same level? 

Review process

 

A local reviewer checks your cache page against our guidelines and regional policies, but does not visit the physical location of your cache. Typically, review begins within 7 days of the date that you submit your cache. But reviews may take longer in the week before or after holidays and large geocaching events.

[Darwin473]

9 hours ago, niraD said:

I use the phrase "scavenger hunt" myself.

 

If I had to choose between "scavenger hunt" and "hide and seek" then I prefer hide and seek as (to me) scavenger hunt still implies "looking for stuff to keep" to some people. It may be a regional thing, where I grew up when we did scavenger hunts we tended to keep the things that were picked up. I know many places when they do a scavenger hunt they don't keep the things that were collected.

 

However, I've never heard of participants at the end of a scavenger hunt going and putting the things back where they were originally picked up. I may be wrong, if so then please correct me.

[+colleda]

Came across this one in a PQ today. A D1.5 / T2. Up until the DNF by ef there was a loooong list of Found Its. So why didn't xy log a WN instead of messaging the CO? Who knows? I suspect that due to xy not being a cache owner they may be unaware of how a NM helps.

 

20/09/2020 By CO xxxxx
Will check this one soon.

 

20/09/2020 By xy
This was a second DNF and now it is home time for us. Will message the CO requesting maintenance on this one to confirm that is is there. .

 

05/08/2020 By ab
Didn’t find this one

 

04/05/2020 By cd

 

21/04/2020 By ef

Edited September 24, 2020 by colleda
typo

[+on4bam]

11 hours ago, Unit473L said:

As much as I can, I try and encourage people to describe geocaching as "a global game of hide and seek" rather than a treasure hunt. But that's just me.  

 

As some societies and tourist bureaus around here create tours where people have to answer questions along the way we use that activity to "hide" what we're doing. Although a passer by asking "found it yet?" is getting more common.

 

[+CleverCloggs]

12 hours ago, colleda said:

It is a shame that half of the caches you have so far found are in need of maintenance.

The last cacher to log a find on the cache where you lost your pen did not find it but left a throwdown.  Even said so in their Found It log.

BTW, I love your game name.

I found another cache today that was bust open and no lid... no swag either... first left there in 2008... I would really look after my caches if I had them hidden... I seem to be an unlucky finder LOL OR maybe its good because all the old ones will be replaced by shiny new ones..  still cant find my pen... it went in the water.. 

[+CleverCloggs]

4 hours ago, on4bam said:

 

As some societies and tourist bureaus around here create tours where people have to answer questions along the way we use that activity to "hide" what we're doing. Although a passer by asking "found it yet?" is getting more common.

 

cool

[+CleverCloggs]

11 hours ago, Keystone said:

 

I see that one of Portugal's four excellent Community Volunteer Reviewers has now begun the review process - which often takes a bit longer with new hiders, to get them off to a good start.  Initial review occurred in just a bit over three days, which is well within expectations.

They also gave me valuable info on what to do   so watch out for some truly awesome and fun caches  

[+CleverCloggs]

9 hours ago, Goldenwattle said:

If the cache is really damaged, log a NM (needs maintenance). Don't just send a message to the CO. NM logs are also for the reviewer and other geocachers to know there is a problem, so this information should be for all to see. If they are a conscientious CO (cache owner) they should be pleased to get the NM. I am if there is a problem that needs fixing, and would thank the person who logged, and then go and fix the problem. There are a few strange people who get upset at NM. Ignore them, they are wrong. NMs are a way of letting the owner know about the problem, not a personal attack on anyone. If it's because you can't find the cache, log a DNF, and only log the NM after several people have logged DNFs, taking the difficult rating into consideration.

 

It's a shame that not all are as thoughtful and sensible as you to do this . Welcome to geocaching.

Thanks for the welcome 

[+niraD]

6 hours ago, Unit473L said:

If I had to choose between "scavenger hunt" and "hide and seek" then I prefer hide and seek as (to me) scavenger hunt still implies "looking for stuff to keep" to some people. It may be a regional thing, where I grew up when we did scavenger hunts we tended to keep the things that were picked up. I know many places when they do a scavenger hunt they don't keep the things that were collected.

Good point. I guess the last several scavenger hunts I've been on have been photo scavenger hunts, where we haven't taken anything with us. I do recall other scavenger hunts (the last one I did was in college) where we collected worthless items like leaves, pebbles, or acorns, in addition to collecting information (e.g., count the number of whatever, or the date on the plaque).

 

At the same time, I'm not sure hide and seek is quite right, since we aren't looking for people who are hiding. Maybe hide the thimble?

Edited September 24, 2020 by niraD

[+CleverCloggs]

I have sent quite a few NMs, to CO, but no answers as yet... some of them date back to 2008! Lets hope they will get them sorted.. Its fun to find them... 

[+CleverCloggs]

15 minutes ago, niraD said:

Good point. I guess the last several scavenger hunts I've been on have been photo scavenger hunts, where we haven't taken anything with us. I do recall other scavenger hunts (the last one I did was in college) where we collected worthless items like leaves, pebbles, or acorns, in addition to collecting information (e.g., count the number of whatever, or the date on the plaque).

 

At the same time, I'm not sure hide and seek is quite right, since we aren't looking for people who are hiding. Maybe hide the thimble?

I have often used the Swedish word Skattjakt *treasure hunt   it doesn't matter to me about finding treasure, its the searching for it that's the fun part.. and the excersise of course LOL 

[+L0ne.R]

8 hours ago, CleverCloggs said:

I have often used the Swedish word Skattjakt *treasure hunt   it doesn't matter to me about finding treasure, its the searching for it that's the fun part.. and the excersise of course LOL 

 

For me, the whole thing matters. From the cache page to the cache location and container. 

 

I like to the whole experience which an includes an active CO who cares, writes a nice cache listing, watches the listing and logs, thinks about the location he will place the cache, chooses a pleasant location, places a quality container which will keep the contents dry and with room for swag. And checks that cache every now and then to make sure everything is in nice condition. 

Edited September 24, 2020 by L0ne.R

[+CleverCloggs]

6 minutes ago, L0ne.R said:

 

For me, the whole thing matters. From the cache page to the cache location and container. 

 

I like to the whole experience which an includes active CO who cares, writes a nice cache listing, watches the listing and logs, thinks about the location he will place the cache, chooses a pleasant location, places a quality container which will keep the contents dry and with room for swag. And checks that cache every now and then to make sure everything is in nice condition. 

I quite agree.. Most of the ones I have found so far, are broken, wet logs etc.... though.... I intend to be a good cache hider with lots of fun stuff  

[+TheLimeCat]

On 9/23/2020 at 8:14 AM, dprovan said:

Geocaching is way more popular that it was 10 years ago. Publishing time I've heard about are on the order of days, with overnight being fairly common.

I expect that publishing time would decrease when the number of caches being submitted decreases. 

 

Geocaching is not at popular as it was in the past, in terms of search interest, daily logs, and daily hidden caches. In these regards, it grew slowly until 2011/2012, when it peaked. It has been declining since. Overall, geocaching is something that sees renewed interest every summer, and declining interest every winter, so the years are marked by peaks and troughs. Looking at a multi-year illustration though, each year the peaks are a little smaller and the troughs a little deeper. I believe it saw an uptick this year as compared to the last, potentially because people were looking for some sort of new and safe diversion while COVID made its mark, or maybe because the people that already were caching had more time to do so. 

 

 

Edited September 24, 2020 by TheLimeCat

[+colleda]

9 hours ago, CleverCloggs said:

They also gave me valuable info on what to do   so watch out for some truly awesome and fun caches  

It could be some time before I'm ever able to visit Portugal again. Had a one day stay in Lisboa last November which I really enjoyed (after the overpriced, underwhelming ship's walking tour finished).

[+CleverCloggs]

8 hours ago, colleda said:

It could be some time before I'm ever able to visit Portugal again. Had a one day stay in Lisboa last November which I really enjoyed (after the overpriced, underwhelming ship's walking tour finished).

I love living here.. its peaceful.... I'm rather disappointed with the state of the caches I have found so far! considering there is a such a rigorous review process... with lots of questions... When I get some caches up and running, it will give the area some new geo searches.. lets hope  

[+CleverCloggs]

13 hours ago, TheLimeCat said:

I expect that publishing time would decrease when the number of caches being submitted decreases. 

 

Geocaching is not at popular as it was in the past, in terms of search interest, daily logs, and daily hidden caches. In these regards, it grew slowly until 2011/2012, when it peaked. It has been declining since. Overall, geocaching is something that sees renewed interest every summer, and declining interest every winter, so the years are marked by peaks and troughs. Looking at a multi-year illustration though, each year the peaks are a little smaller and the troughs a little deeper. I believe it saw an uptick this year as compared to the last, potentially because people were looking for some sort of new and safe diversion while COVID made its mark, or maybe because the people that already were caching had more time to do so. 

 

 

As its too hot in the summer here (Portugal) I will be a winter searcher...  the info is very interesting ...

[+CleverCloggs]

On 9/24/2020 at 5:26 AM, Max and 99 said:

Review process

 

A local reviewer checks your cache page against our guidelines and regional policies, but does not visit the physical location of your cache. Typically, review begins within 7 days of the date that you submit your cache. But reviews may take longer in the week before or after holidays and large geocaching events.

I am now being question, by a reviewer.... I wonder if it would be easier just sending a film clip of the areas? might be more information for the reviewer instead of back and forth every day?  is that anything anyone has done? 

[+Goldenwattle]

2 minutes ago, CleverCloggs said:

As its too hot in the summer here (Portugal) I will be a winter searcher...  the info is very interesting ...

In summer, a wide brimmed hat, sunscreen, a long sleeved, white shirt to keep the sun off and you are ready to go geocaching. That's what I do here. I do admit when it hit 44C last year I didn't go out that day, but shut myself in the house. Besides, bushfires were raging and the air was thick with smoke. Actually, it was the smoke that was more likely to keep me indoors than the heat.

[+Goldenwattle]

4 minutes ago, CleverCloggs said:

I am now being question, by a reviewer....

What are you being asked?

[+CleverCloggs]

Just now, Goldenwattle said:

In summer, a wide brimmed hat, sunscreen, a long sleeved, white shirt to keep the sun off and you are ready to go geocaching. That's what I do here. I do admit when it hit 44C last year I didn't go out that day, but shut myself in the house. Besides, bushfires were raging and the air was thick with smoke. Actually, it was the smoke that was more likely to keep me indoors than the heat.

Ah yes, its been hot here, when its over 36c I stay and shade bathe   I prefer when its cooler...  Autumn, and spring here is wonderful to wander around... Every cache I have found so far has been broken, except for the mini ones...  My hope is to find some nice ones, well cared for and clean with a dry log book!