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Max and 99

Copyright question (so I don't get sent to jail)

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Some categories specifically state that you are NOT to quote any material from a book because the text is copyrighted (same with photos).

 

Yet some categories require a quote from another source.

 

This contradiction causes me concern.

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I'm not a waymarker, but I know a little something about copyright.

 

Copyrights for the vast majority of countries are for 70 full years after the author's death. For the US, it's more complicated, but everything published 95 full years or longer ago are definitely out of copyright in the USA. So if you used material from a book by an author who died in 1949 or earlier and published in 1924 or earlier, you'd be pretty darn safe from copyright claims. (I think Mexico is Life+100 or something like that, but it's such an outlier, it's hardly worth consideration.)

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14 minutes ago, TriciaG said:

I'm not a waymarker, but I know a little something about copyright.

 

Copyrights for the vast majority of countries are for 70 full years after the author's death. For the US, it's more complicated, but everything published 95 full years or longer ago are definitely out of copyright in the USA. So if you used material from a book by an author who died in 1949 or earlier and published in 1924 or earlier, you'd be pretty darn safe from copyright claims. (I think Mexico is Life+100 or something like that, but it's such an outlier, it's hardly worth consideration.)

So I'm only safe from the slammer if I quote a dead person. Do I have that right?

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Pretty much. LOL!

 

There are things that you can quote (like Wikipedia) if you cite the source; not everything has a hard, strict copyright.

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4 minutes ago, TriciaG said:

Pretty much. LOL!

 

There are things that you can quote (like Wikipedia) if you cite the source; not everything has a hard, strict copyright.

Let's see if we can lengthen that list. Would a government websites' material be copyrighted, or public domain?

How about other, online, encyclopædias? Trying to think of other examples (that I have copied from in the [dark and distant] past)... ...

Keith

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Government: depends on the country. Official US docs (written by a government employee in the course of the employee's official duties) are public domain. Canada's are copyrighted. I'm not sure if they're available under Fair Use clauses or not. I'm not sure about other countries.

 

Usually websites will contain usage policies - whether they allow reproduction of the material (with or without citations), etc.

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52 minutes ago, TriciaG said:

Government: depends on the country. Official US docs (written by a government employee in the course of the employee's official duties) are public domain. Canada's are copyrighted. I'm not sure if they're available under Fair Use clauses or not. I'm not sure about other countries.

 

Usually websites will contain usage policies - whether they allow reproduction of the material (with or without citations), etc.

What I am speaking of is U S copyright law.  Just because something is copyrighted, doesn't mean it can't be used.  There is a doctrine of fair use - which in our case, would be for research and teaching purposes.  We are taking copyrighted information and creating something totally different with it - that is the first step of fair use, transformitive.  We tend to use published works so that is the second step of fair use.  We might not have as strong a case on the amount.  The fourth step is the effect on the market - we aren't trying to make money on our use of the copyrighted material.   We have a strong case for fair use, especially since the materially we use, by and large, is non-fiction. 

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Posted (edited)

I was actually waiting and hoping that Tom would chip in with just exactly what he has written.

Over the years I, for example, have copied XXXabytes of text to embellish Waymarks and provide useful, sometimes crucial, information, predominantly from Heritage Places Canada and the US equivalent, the National Register of Historic places.

I have copied many news articles, both contemporary and 150 years past. Moreover, I have copied text from church websites, museum websites, etc., etc., etc. All copied text or other material is always properly credited, citing names and providing URLs.

 

In all these years I have never feared retribution from the owner of the "repurposed" intellectual property/historical text/etc. for the reasons that Tom so aptly outlines above. I Will Note, however, that I have encountered websites which have expressly forbidden reuse of their content and  so avoided copying material, simply using a URL as a reference instead.

Keith

Edit:

Further explanation:

Especially with regard to Waymarking and internet use in general I believe in following the Golden Rule.

As BK-Hunters we have posted in the vicinity of 100,000 photos to the Waymarking website, all of which, according to Groundspeak, we own the copyrights to (of - for?). Over the years we have received many requests to use our photos on other websites. These generally come from towns and tourist websites seeking photos to enhance their web presence. We have never refused a request, and seldom, if ever, request attribution. Instead, the requesting party generally offers to provide attribution without our ever broaching  the subject.

 

Though I have no legal basis on which to stand here, I tend to believe that material placed on the web should be considered in the public domain.

Edited by ScroogieII

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The point of the above was to assuage 99's fears & trepidation.

Though we do live in different countries, the more likely one to land in jail for copyright infringement (what's the word I'm looking for? - it completely escapes me at the moment) would be me.

Keith

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, ScroogieII said:

Will Note, however, that I have encountered websites which have expressly forbidden reuse of their content and  so avoided copying materia

And there's the problem. I've realized that most of the material I quote is from websites that state this. In order to post a waymark in the News Category, I am required to quote the text.

I think I may be done with that category, if it's going to get me into trouble. @Alfouine will you accept the article text in the waymark private message box (if it's big enough!), instead of the Waymark description section?

 

 

 

Edited by Max and 99

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8 hours ago, Max and 99 said:

And there's the problem. I've realized that most of the material I quote is from websites that state this. In order to post a waymark in the News Category, I am required to quote the text.

I think I may be done with that category, if it's going to get me into trouble. @Alfouine will you accept the article text in the waymark private message box (if it's big enough!), instead of the Waymark description section?

 

 

 

No i will not, the waymark is the article content

As long as we credit the article content, there is no problem, if the author ask to delete the content, we delete the waymark and it's over

We do not make money with Waymarking, not me :cry:

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11 minutes ago, Alfouine said:

No i will not, the waymark is the article content

As long as we credit the article content, there is no problem, if the author ask to delete the content, we delete the waymark and it's over

We do not make money with Waymarking, not me :cry:

Thank you for responding. 

 

It happened here!

One of the main elements of a news article is "where" - Locate the origin of a news article and post a summary of what happened (and when).
Expanded Description:
Places are rich with history. Unless you do your research or read a historical sign, however, it can sometimes be difficult to know what happened at any particular spot.

There are many news articles online that relate to a direct location, so why not mark the coordinate and point out the article to others? After a while you'll be able to map out articles by time and place. How liberating.

Instructions for Posting a News Article Locations Waymark:
Find a news article online and post a link to it along with the coordinates where the news article was referencing (the link must be available without a paid subscription). The news article must contain a newly reported occurrence at the waymarked location. Feature articles and quotes from travel guides are not considered news articles.

Try and find news articles that are specific enough to an area that you could point out a landmark. For example, if an earthquake happened you should try to find a reference to it or some evidence of that earthquake's passing, like a cracked street or memorial at the location.

Post at least one original photo showing the location. Include more if they can flesh out the story.

DUPLICATES: One location may have several articles written about it, but only one waymark per location will be accepted. Exceptions may be made if the articles are from different historical periods (25+ years). Additionally only one waymark will be accepted for the same event within a ½ mile radius.

SPECIAL NOTE: While the details outlined in our category description, and the requirements listed in the posting instructions, cover the MINIMUM elements and standards for all waymarks in this category, each waymark will also be evaluated by a volunteer reviewer for overall quality and appropriateness. If a reviewer deems that there are deficiencies in some aspect of the waymark, the waymark may be either declined or accepted with request for changes and/or additions in either content or format.

Each waymark will be evaluated on its own merits. We will endeavor to be reasonable and flexible while maintaining the quality standards for the category. If there is a disagreement, try to work it out with the evaluating officer, or appeal to the group leader, but we reserve the right to accept or decline a waymark based on our best judgement.

LANGUAGE NOTE: We recognize Waymarking as a global hobby and welcome waymarks from all countries. Because of our international scope, we also acknowledge ENGLISH as our lingua franca. English will create the highest level of accessibility globally. All waymarks must have at least a short description in ENGLISH. We encourage bilingual and multilingual waymarks, but one of the languages must be English. We have volunteer translators to help.

Relying on software or internet based translators, such as Babylon and Google Translate, may NOT yield accurate translations that are intelligible. Use these only when there is no alternative. Although we do not expect grammatical perfection, a waymark may be declined if there the English language is not understandable.

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Posted (edited)

I don't see a problem here. As I read the requirements posted above I see NO requirement that text from a news article be included in the Waymark - only a link to the article. In fact, I see no requirement for a Long Description, unless this:

"All waymarks must have at least a short description in ENGLISH." refers to a short, as in not lengthy, description within the Long Description. If so, it's poorly written, potentially inviting misinterpretation.

Molehills >> Mountains?

Keith

Edited by ScroogieII

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It is required. That's why I asked if it could be sent in the message box instead of the waymark description. To avoid any copyright issues. 

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3 minutes ago, Max and 99 said:

It is required. That's why I asked if it could be sent in the message box instead of the waymark description. To avoid any copyright issues. 

WHERE is it required? Was the entirety of the requirements not reproduced above?

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Here's an example, from a source I use often:

 

COPYRIGHT INFORMATION

©Copyright 1999-2020 Griffin Communications. All rights reserved. This website is free to access. By providing this access the Station does not intend to relinquish its respective rights, or any other party's rights, to the materials appearing on the website. Unless otherwise stated, this Station owns all materials, including designs, icons, illustrations, images, photographs, video clips, written content and other materials that are part of the website. All material on the website is supplied for private, non-commercial use only. Without prior written permission from Griffin Communications you may not iFrame or in-line link any of the content provided by the website or incorporate any of the Station’s intellectual property into another website, application, mobile application or other service. You will not modify, publish, transmit, reverse engineer, participate in the transfer or sale, create derivative works, or in any way exploit any of the content, in whole or in part, found on the website. 

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Posted (edited)

Let's begin again - In the requirements for posting a News Article Locations WM, there is NO stated requirement that text from the article be included in the Waymark, only that a link to the article be provided. Hence, there is no need to fear recrimination, as there is no need to copy/use copyrighted material.

Keith

Edited by ScroogieII
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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, ScroogieII said:

Let's begin again - In the requirements for posting a News Article Locations WM, there is NO stated requirement that text from the article be included in the Waymark, only that a link to the article be provided. Hence, there is no need to fear recrimination, as there is no need to copy/use copyrighted material.

Keith

It is required.

 

Edit: the requirement, in my opinion, is a logical one based on this being a global activity. But now that I see I might be in violation, it causes me concern. 

Edited by Max and 99

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8 minutes ago, Max and 99 said:

It is required.

WHAT is required?

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OK OK, my reply is required :cool:

 

Since GPRD, sometimes i am not able to read the content of an article because of restriction, so i always require full content article in the waymark.

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35 minutes ago, Alfouine said:

OK OK, my reply is required :cool:

 

Since GPRD, sometimes i am not able to read the content of an article because of restriction, so i always require full content article in the waymark.

If that is the case, then the requirements need to be updated to indicate such, Thierry. Right now you're inviting pushback from Waymarkers who might choose to read the requirements literally.

Question - what is GPRD?

Keith

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Sorry GDPR, in english

The leader of this category is inactive, i sent to him a lot of messages to make modifications, but he never replied.

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6 hours ago, Alfouine said:

OK OK, my reply is required :cool:

 

Since GPRD, sometimes i am not able to read the content of an article because of restriction, so i always require full content article in the waymark.

I totally understand the logic for this and never had a problem! It was a reasonable request, as I've stated before.  But after seeing the forum discussion of 1000 Places category, and the statement about it being illegal to cut and paste the text from the source, I wondered about the legality of it for News waymarks. It's a problem. If 1000 says it's illegal, then we shouldn't be doing it. But then how does a reviewer see the news article to confirm the waymark is correct? Two opposite views, same game. 

I don't see this as a matter of updating the category description. The point of this discussion is to ask if the copy and paste of copyrighted material is allowed at all. Reading the site's terms leads me to think it is not. 

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It is not illegal to cite from a source under any jurisdiction I have ever heard of, provided that the source is mentioned appropriately and *THIS IS THE IMPORTANT PART* it is not a substantially big part of the source, and not the majority of your own work.

 

Five cited sentences from a book are no problem in a full page text, three lines from a five line article and one sentence of your own probably are. Requesting a complete article from a newspaper most certainly is not legal. But there are no clear and predefined borders and official numbers, these are determined by judges on a case-by-case base.

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I'm a little bummed. Only 246 to go for my goal, with a whole bunch in my queue. But it's not worth going to the slammer. :anibad:

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1 hour ago, Max and 99 said:

But then how does a reviewer see the news article to confirm the waymark is correct?

They could always follow the link provided.

I think fi67, above, has your solution.

 

But, look at it this way:

News media must post a copyright notice to protect themselves financially. The purpose is to prevent one from wholesale copying their material onto another news sight and operating it for profit. That would enable one to operate a news source without having to purchase news items or hire reporters. News media don't really care if a private individual copies snippets from their website, as long as it doesn't hurt them financially, or provide financial gain to others. I believe your fears are unfounded.

Keith

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8 minutes ago, Max and 99 said:

I'm a little bummed. Only 246 to go for my goal, with a whole bunch in my queue. But it's not worth going to the slammer. :anibad:

 

I shall reiterate. You AIN'T going to the slammer for what you're doing!!!

Keith

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4 minutes ago, ScroogieII said:

I believe your fears are unfounded.

Thank you for sharing. 

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Alfouine said:

Sorry GDPR, in english

The leader of this category is inactive, i sent to him a lot of messages to make modifications, but he never replied.

 

Sorry, Thierry - I must be waaaaay too slow on the uptake - I don't get GDPR, either.

Anyhow, it appears that it's time for a coup in the category. A simple vote can get an inactive leader demoted, with 100% approval from the officers. One sec - gonna check and see who the officers are...

...Strange that Larry (Shiny Pen) isn't responding. Metro2 isn't very active but DnRseekers seem to be. Could be a tough one if you can't get hold of Metro2. Nevertheless, I'd give it a shot. You could always call on the Wayfroggie as a last resort. That would make Richard your leader, but I don't see that as a problem.

Keith

Edit:

We recently staged a  coup at Western Canadian Heritage. There were inactive officers present, yet a vote to demote the leader succeeded.

Edited by ScroogieII

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Thanks to everyone for their feedback on this issue. I appreciate it.  

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, Max and 99 said:

Thank you for sharing. 

 

You're welcome.

753 ain't no time to stop - Keep On Truckin'!!

I got to 964 when I was forced to stop - OUCH!

If we were to work out the odds, I would be 28% more likely than you to be incarcerated for my heinous misdeeds.

Keith

EDIT:

Actually, it would be slightly more than 28%, as I've posted a few more under my current nom de plume.

Edited by ScroogieII

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