7 out of 5 Labs found in Adventure Lab

[+Fangsoki]

I know.. a remarkable feat.

 

The girlfriend and I recently did this Adventure Lab - https://labs.geocaching.com/goto/thepark

 

There was a bit of unpleasantness - as apparently part of the Adventure was on state government property (unbeknown to everyone except the government security guard).  However, we had managed to get all we needed before we met Mr Security Guard - and we completed the adventure with 5 finds.

 

The diligent Adventure Lab owner changed the Adventure Lab so it was no longer on government property.  Great.

 

The problem started when I looked at the Adventure on the Adventure Lab app (Android) and it showed that I had not found 2 of the Labs. The same happened to my girlfriend on her phone (iOS).

 

It gets even better.  We were able to answer the new questions from the loftiness of our lounge room.  We guessed the answers.  Now it shows the Adventure Lab as completed.

 

But wait - there's more!  It has given me and the girlfriend 2 extra Adventure Lab finds.  Hence 7 out of 5 finds for an Adventure Lab.

 

Could someone please be a lamb and fix this?  At least, please fix it so it shows I have finished the Adventure and have 2 less find that I am not entitled to?

Apologies for long post.

Edited July 13, 2020 by Fangsoki

[+Max and 99]

8 minutes ago, Fangsoki said:

I know.. a remarkable feat.

 

The girlfriend and I recently did this Adventure Lab - https://labs.geocaching.com/goto/thepark

 

There was a bit of unpleasantness - as apparently the Lab was on state government property (unbeknown to everyone except the government security guard).  However, we had managed to get all we needed before we met Mr Security Guard - and we completed the adventure with 5 finds.

 

The diligent Adventure Lab owner changed the Lab so it was no longer on government property.  Great.

 

The problem started when I looked at the Adventure on the Adventure Lab app (Android) and it showed that I had not found 2 of the Labs. The same happened to my girlfriend on her phone (iOS).

 

It gets even better.  We were able to answer the new questions from the loftiness of our lounge room.  We guessed the answers.  Now it shows the Adventure Lab as completed.

 

But wait - there's more!  It has given me and the girlfriend 2 extra Adventure Lab finds.  Hence 7 out of 5 finds for an Adventure Lab.

 

Could someone please be a lamb and fix this?  At least, please fix it so it shows I have finished the Adventure and have 2 less find that I am not entitled to?

Apologies for long post.

What do you mean by "entitled to"? Cuz if you ask me, you're entitled to a total of one. But I digress.

 

I really don't know what you mean by entitled to, though.

[+Max and 99]

14 minutes ago, Fangsoki said:

At least, please fix it so it shows I have finished the Adventure and have 2 less find that I am not entitled to?

You can do this yourself. On your profile, under "Finds", you can click on Adventure Labs. You can delete the two labs that you do not want credit for. I do this for all ALs.

[+Fangsoki]

Max and 99 - if I delete two of the Labs, it will show the Lab as not completed again  (original problem)

The two Labs we found originally are gone.

 

Even if I do delete two of them, and put up with it on my phone, it is still very obvious there is a bug.

 

 

[+Max and 99]

4 minutes ago, Fangsoki said:

Max and 99 - if I delete two of the Labs, it will show the Lab as not completed again  (original problem)

I'm not convinced that's correct. Maybe, but I don't think so.

 

Just wondering: your screen shot shows 5 smilies. Where is it showing 7? You definitely have a unique/interesting situation with that Adventure Lab! Running into security when you think you're allowed to be somewhere is not fun.

[+hzoi]

Perhaps it's not a bug, but a feature.

 

Compare: CO places 5 traditional caches in a park. You log all five. Two of them end up being in an off limits area, and the CO archives them and hides two more in the park. If you found and logged those, you'd have seven finds.

 

But for the fact that there are no containers to find for these Adventure Labs, the same thing has happened here.

Edited July 13, 2020 by hzoi

[+Goldenwattle]

1 hour ago, hzoi said:

Perhaps it's not a bug, but a feature.

 

Compare: CO places 5 traditional caches in a park. You log all five. Two of them end up being in an off limits area, and the CO archives them and hides two more in the park. If you found and logged those, you'd have seven finds.

 

But for the fact that there are no containers to find for these Adventure Labs, the same thing has happened here.

There's a difference. The traditional caches have to be at least 161 metres apart, whereas the adventure lab WPs can be much closer than that. I have done several WPs for adventure caches, that would not be possible if they were traditional caches, because of the distance rule. And with the traditional caches you must also find them. Nothing to find with an adventure lab. The ones I have done, just a simple question to answer.

[+hzoi]

21 minutes ago, Goldenwattle said:

1 hour ago, hzoi said:

Perhaps it's not a bug, but a feature.

 

Compare: CO places 5 traditional caches in a park. You log all five. Two of them end up being in an off limits area, and the CO archives them and hides two more in the park. If you found and logged those, you'd have seven finds.

 

But for the fact that there are no containers to find for these Adventure Labs, the same thing has happened here.

There's a difference. The traditional caches have to be at least 161 metres apart, whereas the adventure lab WPs can be much closer than that. I have done several WPs for adventure caches, that would not be possible if they were traditional caches, because of the distance rule. And with the traditional caches you must also find them. Nothing to find with an adventure lab. The ones I have done, just a simple question to answer.

OK, so you have identified that one is apples (adventure lab), and the other oranges (traditional caches), and ignored that both are still types of fruit (geocache finds).

 

How about this: 5 different COs all place virtual caches...never mind.

[+Fangsoki]

This particular Adventure Lab also causes my Adventure Lab app to crash when I click on the map when logged in with my account.

[+Crew 153]

I am in the same boat as you with the same Adventure lab although I still have to complete the last leg of it. The map opens for me but that may be because I still have that one active. So at present I have completed 6 of 5. Similarly to you the two "new" labs came up as not found and I could enter the answers from my lounge.

 

 

Edited July 15, 2020 by Crew 153

[+CAVinoGal]

There is this caution on page 7 of the Builder's Guide ... 

 

Since 2 locations were deleted and then 2 new locations were added, this has "disrupted the experience and point system for players".  Whether anything can be done to correct this remains to be seen.

[+Max and 99]

3 minutes ago, CAVinoGal said:

There is this caution on page 7 of the Builder's Guide ... 

 

Since 2 locations were deleted and then 2 new locations were added, this has "disrupted the experience and point system for players".  Whether anything can be done to correct this remains to be seen.

Excellent catch!

[+Fangsoki]

Thanks CAVinoGal.  At least that shows it's a known problem.

 

I was going to email HQ to have this fixed but it said I should post on these forums. Does anyone from HQ actually read this forum?

 

 

[+baer2006]

17 hours ago, CAVinoGal said:

There is this caution on page 7 of the Builder's Guide ... 

 

Since 2 locations were deleted and then 2 new locations were added, this has "disrupted the experience and point system for players".  Whether anything can be done to correct this remains to be seen.

This nails it.

And BTW, what I (as a professional software developer) completely fail to understand is, why GS didn't simply write a few lines of server code to deny deletion of an ALC location as soon as it has at least one find on it. Or add locations as soon as the first player has completed the ALC.

[+CAVinoGal]

On 7/13/2020 at 1:42 AM, Fangsoki said:

 

There was a bit of unpleasantness - as apparently part of the Adventure was on state government property (unbeknown to everyone except the government security guard).  However, we had managed to get all we needed before we met Mr Security Guard - and we completed the adventure with 5 finds.

 

The diligent Adventure Lab owner changed the Adventure Lab so it was no longer on government property.  Great.

 

So, in this case, 2 of the locations HAD to be changed.  I suppose that's why the caution in the builder guide to have the locations "ready to find" on publication.  In other words, be absolutely sure your locations are accessible and that you have permission for people to be where they need to be to answer your questions and proceed through your Adventure.

 

On 7/13/2020 at 5:47 AM, hzoi said:

Perhaps it's not a bug, but a feature.

 

Compare: CO places 5 traditional caches in a park. You log all five. Two of them end up being in an off limits area, and the CO archives them and hides two more in the park. If you found and logged those, you'd have seven finds.

 

But for the fact that there are no containers to find for these Adventure Labs, the same thing has happened here.

 

Yes, this is what has happened, and each of the locations is counted as a "find".  Finds you have on archived caches don't go away, and it looks like these finds on Adventure lab stages don't go away either, even if the locations change (or are "archived" and recreated in another location).  I enjoy doing the Adventure labs, but I, too, think a "find" on each location is a bit much, and would prefer ONE find for the completion (like a multi, or perhaps more like an EC or Virtual where you may have several questions to answer to complete the cache and earn a single smilie).  I've done 6, so added 30 finds to my stats that I don't feel I "earned", but it's just a number after all, and a hobby, so I'm not stressing over it.  Everyone gets 5 for 1, so our stats are all "inflated" to the same degree when we do the Adventure labs. 

 

My advice to the OP is to accept the extra 2 "finds" on your count and move on.  

[+baer2006]

4 hours ago, CAVinoGal said:

So, in this case, 2 of the locations HAD to be changed. 

Sure. But to do this, you don't need to delete the locations and create two new ones from scratch. You could just as well take the existing locations, and change every property of them - title, coordinates, description, question, pass-phrase. A bit like moving a traditional to a new location - it can effectively be a completely new cache, but the internal ID (GC code for a cache, something else for an ALC location) stays the same, so that cachers don't see strange effects on their find stats.

[+CAVinoGal]

1 hour ago, baer2006 said:

You could just as well take the existing locations, and change every property of them - title, coordinates, description, question, pass-phrase.

OK, that's good to know for future reference, if I need to make changes to my locations.  Too late for the existing topic of this thread, but good to know all the same.

Edited July 16, 2020 by CAVinoGal

[+dprovan]

13 minutes ago, baer2006 said:

Sure. But to do this, you don't need to delete the locations and create two new ones from scratch. You could just as well take the existing locations, and change every property of them - title, coordinates, description, question, pass-phrase. A bit like moving a traditional to a new location - it can effectively be a completely new cache, but the internal ID (GC code for a cache, something else for an ALC location) stays the same, so that cachers don't see strange effects on their find stats.

Right, but if the cache is a new cache, we wouldn't expect the ID to be reused, and, similarly, if the new location is completely different, we wouldn't expect the owner to reuse the entry for the old location. I see the point of reusing the location because of this quirk/bug, but I don't agree that it's logical to reuse the same location when creating an entirely different location.

 

Assuming there's no good way to fix this -- and I can't think of one -- the workaround would be for the AC editing system to not allow locations to be deleted at all. That would force an owner who wants to replace one location with another to reuse a previous location in the way you propose. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that this problem is caused by the fact that location which has already gotten credit for and, therefore, already counted can be deleted. Allowing that is what makes a user's find count disagree with the lab's location count.

[+Fangsoki]

1 minute ago, dprovan said:

Assuming there's no good way to fix this -- and I can't think of one -- the workaround would be for the AC editing system to not allow locations to be deleted at all. That would force an owner who wants to replace one location with another to reuse a previous location in the way you propose. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that this problem is caused by the fact that location which has already gotten credit for and, therefore, already counted can be deleted. Allowing that is what makes a user's find count disagree with the lab's location count.

 

Agreed.  Why give Adventure Lab owners the power to "break" the system?  The poor Adventure Lab owner wasn't to know (sans the guideline quoted by CAVinoGal - which I entirely missed myself)

[+Fangsoki]

6 hours ago, CAVinoGal said:

My advice to the OP is to accept the extra 2 "finds" on your count and move on.  

 

In the absence of anything being done about this, this is just the way it's going to be.   Will just create two more Labs in my GSAK - and hopefully get over the dirty feeling of 2 finds I'm not entitled to :p

[+CAVinoGal]

16 minutes ago, dprovan said:

If the new location is completely different, we wouldn't expect the owner to reuse the entry for the old location. I see the point of reusing the location because of this quirk/bug, but I don't agree that it's logical to reuse the same location when creating an entirely different location.

 

This, too, makes perfect sense.  I can only make my original 5 locations the best they can be, and hope if changes need to be made, they will be minor andthe integrity of the AL won't be affected.