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Pontiac_CZ

1 adventure lab cache = 5 finds ?

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Posted (edited)

A week ago I did my first adventure lab - this one. It consisted of 5 questions. I successfully completed the adventure lab but my profile now shows 5 lab caches.

 

Is that a bug?

 

 

5_lab_caches.png

Edited by Pontiac_CZ
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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Pontiac_CZ said:

A week ago I did my first adventure lab - this one. It consisted of 5 questions. I successfully completed the adventure lab but my profile now shows 5 lab caches.

 

Is that a bug?

 

 

5_lab_caches.png

Yes indeed. Five stages = 5 Geocache finds. Nuts!

I edit my count to show only one Find per AL. 

 

 

Edited by Max and 99

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5 minutes ago, Pontiac_CZ said:

Is that a bug?

No. It's one AdventureLab containing five  single LabCaches.

If you don't like it. Just don't do it. It's that easy. ;)

 

Hans

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Posted (edited)

Max: you keep only one of the completed questions and delete the others?

Edited by Pontiac_CZ

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Pontiac_CZ said:

Max: you keep only one of the completed questions and delete the others?

Correct.

You can change it back too.

 

 

Screenshot_20200613-035939.png

Edited by Max and 99

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Posted (edited)

I actually did the adventure lab only to collect numbers for a physical mystery cache. Maybe I'll delete it completely if it can be undone just in case which seems to be possible.

Edited by Pontiac_CZ
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20 minutes ago, Pontiac_CZ said:

I actually did the adventure lab only to collect numbers for a physical mystery cache. Maybe I'll delete it completely if it can be undone just in case which seems to be possible.

Just to clarify, I only hide the stages. I do not know about deleting the whole AL.

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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, Pontiac_CZ said:

I actually did the adventure lab only to collect numbers for a physical mystery cache. Maybe I'll delete it completely if it can be undone just in case which seems to be possible.

I looked up the Adventure Lab bonus cache. Nice!

Edited by Max and 99

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I moved this one thread five times.

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Well, I thought it was a bug in find count display on the website, that's why I posted it into the Website forum originally.  I still believe it is a bug because - why would I get a find for answering a simple question in the app? How is that a cache?

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18 minutes ago, Pontiac_CZ said:

Well, I thought it was a bug in find count display on the website, that's why I posted it into the Website forum originally.  I still believe it is a bug because - why would I get a find for answering a simple question in the app? How is that a cache?

I agree. I suspect a high percentage of cachers would agree. It's stupid and a major programming fault, but that's the way it is. I think it 'cheapens' geocaching, as it lessens the value of finds. It's worse than drive-by power trails, in this respect.

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6 minutes ago, Goldenwattle said:

It's worse than drive-by power trails, in this respect.

No one forces you to do LabCaches. Just don't do them but let others enjoy them.

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1 minute ago, HHL said:

No one forces you to do LabCaches. Just don't do them but let others enjoy them.

And no one forces me not to do them. They just shouldn't give a find for every WP.  Multicaches don't. I never said I wouldn't find them, as they are fun. So, your point!

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10 minutes ago, Goldenwattle said:

They just shouldn't give a find for every WP.  Multicaches don't

Actually LabCaches are not  a Multi cache. Those are five (or more) single caches that are combined into one themed CacheTour (called AdLab). And of course every one of them should separately count as you might only do some  of them instead of all (whereas a Multi cache has to be solved in full).

 

Hans

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33 minutes ago, HHL said:

Actually LabCaches are not  a Multi cache. Those are five (or more) single caches that are combined into one themed CacheTour (called AdLab). And of course every one of them should separately count as you might only do some  of them instead of all (whereas a Multi cache has to be solved in full).

 

Hans

The Lab caches should need to be all solved too. The ones I have done, the WPs of the lab caches were far easier to do than WPs on many multicaches. They deserved a find less than the multicache WPs in terms of difficulty. After all often a multicache WP actually needs to be found and it's usually tiny, where a lab cache's WP doesn't, or not those I have done. Only a simple question.

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Posted (edited)

Could people please stop comparing Lab Caches to multis? They're two different kinds of caches with two different kinds of rules. It would be totally useless if they were practically the same.

Edited by TmdAndGG
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17 minutes ago, TmdAndGG said:

Could people please stop comparing Lab Caches to multis? They're two different kinds of caches with two different kinds of rules. It would be totally useless if they were practically the same.

Basically they are the same. One was originally made for GPSs and the other for phones. There's little difference than that. Not all multicaches have formulas to work out. Some have a series of WPs where the next coordinates are found (basically WP to WP), and then it's off to the next WP. Really no different to many Lab caches I have done, where you go from WP to WP, except it's done on the phone rather than a GPS. I have done some impressive Lab cache WPs at a Mega where you needed to figure out how to get into a box, etc to get the word to log that WP, but most haven't been like that. Basically field puzzles, which a mulitcache could be too.

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Goldenwattle said:

except it's done on the phone rather than a GPS.

We've done multis on a phone.

 

11 minutes ago, Goldenwattle said:

There's little difference than that.

Except that for each stage you get a find. And you need keywords instead of coordinates. And Mega event lab caches are temporary (You wouldn't just put out a multi for 2 weeks). And a multicache requires a final physical cache, where labs do not.

Edited by TmdAndGG

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7 hours ago, Pontiac_CZ said:

A week ago I did my first adventure lab - this one. It consisted of 5 questions. I successfully completed the adventure lab but my profile now shows 5 lab caches.

 

Is that a bug?

To be honest, I can't tell if it was originally a bug, but now I think it's fair to call it more of a feature. It definitely took me by surprise. But I actually wasn't expecting to get *any* finds for the adventure lab. I thought they'd be a thing to themselves like those old Challenge thingies. It took me a couple ALs to realize I was getting a find for each segment. Per leg finds isn't my preference, either, but I also recognize that it's an entirely arbitrary choice. There's nothing particularly wrong with getting a find for each leg of the AL. Zero finds, one find, 5 finds, they all make sense in their own way. GS just picked 5.

 

When I first discovered this, I was just thinking in terms of a completed AL, so either 1 or 5. Then I did an AL that was a lot further than I expected and only had time for 2 of the legs. Although I'd still rather the rule was 1 find per AL, getting actual finds for the subset of the AL was a nice consolation prize that some geocachers might really like.

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5 hours ago, HHL said:

Actually LabCaches are not  a Multi cache. Those are five (or more) single caches that are combined into one themed CacheTour (called AdLab). And of course every one of them should separately count as you might only do some  of them instead of all (whereas a Multi cache has to be solved in full).

 

Hans

 

I have had to travel hours between LabCache elements.  I am pleased to take credit for each.  Would I work on a multi-cache where such travel was required between stages?  Not likely.

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Lab cache stages may be less than 161m (mile/10) apart. It is easier than a power trail to find and collect many finds instead of one.

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2 hours ago, elyob said:

I have had to travel hours between LabCache elements.  I am pleased to take credit for each.  Would I work on a multi-cache where such travel was required between stages?  Not likely.

 

So when ALs become mainstream and anyone can create them, will it be the death knell for long multis? Or even long ECs like the one I did yesterday with 11 waypoints spread over 2km of rugged coastline?

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55 minutes ago, barefootjeff said:

when ALs become mainstream and anyone can create them

I sure hope that doesn't happen...

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The comparison between multis and adventure labs is solely about the multiple-waypoint style progression. NO other cache type that may contain multiple stages - no matter how far apart they are - awards multiple finds, one per stage.  IMO, any argument defending finds for each AL stage can be used the same for existing cache type stages - other than simply admitting "Because it's an Adventure Lab, and it's different". And that argument is either - you like it or you don't.  Personally, I don't :P

 

And again, that's not because I think ALs can't be good and fun, or because I'm in some way affected or personally 'hurt' by others getting more smilies by completing them. That really doesn't bother me (other aspects to the game have a similar effect). But as mentioned elsewhere, it kind of 'cheapens' the meaning or value of the find count. I'd say meaning more than value, really. What is a "Find"?  A couple years down the road someone may have more "Finds" on non-physical waypoints where they entered a keyword into an app than physical geocaches.  It's a slippery slope to the growing haziness of what "geocaching" is, imo.  ALs are location-based keyword hunts. Not very unique in the grand scheme of mobile games. But piggybacking on Geocaching, they've got a very big audience now.  But what keep Geocaching distinct from other games outdoors location-based games is the physical container-finding aspect.

 

I like that ALs exist (in a better form than Geocaching Challenges) - it's another aspect to the hobby that's geared to our growing mobile gps-based generation.  But, that 1-find-per-stage thing really irks me out of concern for Geocaching. ;P

 

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Posted (edited)
On 6/14/2020 at 1:18 AM, TmdAndGG said:

We've done multis on a phone.

 

Except that for each stage you get a find. And you need keywords instead of coordinates. And Mega event lab caches are temporary (You wouldn't just put out a multi for 2 weeks). And a multicache requires a final physical cache, where labs do not.

Yes, some people do now, but when multies first came out, they were created for GPSs, as that's what everyone used then.

 

Excluding those at Megas, I think all lab caches I have done have had a physical cache with a log to sign at the end. The last WP has given the coordinates to a bonus cache. So similar to multis, except many finds as compared to one. Added: Those lab caches I have done at a mega did have a physical cache in a sense. You had to get into a box, or work something out to have a code displayed to get the code. I didn't mind a find for each of those, as they took effort. The lab caches away from the mega, have involved virtually no work compared to other caches, and 'cheapen' the value of finds.

I did a virtual the other day, which had ten WPs, but only one find. It took more work than any lab cache I have ever done (excluding Mega caches).

But I understand that to some people the numbers are all that this game is about, not the challenges. The same mindset is fuelling the lists of trackables being passed around for armchair logging. And wasn't there some armchair logging of lab caches too? Yes, they suit and fuel this mindset. A slippery slope.

Edited by Goldenwattle
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5 hours ago, elyob said:

 

I have had to travel hours between LabCache elements.  I am pleased to take credit for each.  Would I work on a multi-cache where such travel was required between stages?  Not likely.

I travelled over 10,000 kms doing a multi with many stages. One find. Yet, a lab cache walking around a small area, completed in maybe an hour or so, gets many finds. Lab caches 'cheapen' the reward of finds.

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1 hour ago, thebruce0 said:

But as mentioned elsewhere, it kind of 'cheapens' the meaning or value of the find count. I'd say meaning more than value, really. What is a "Find"?

 

Yes, that hits the nail on the head of what bothers me about them. It's cheapening the meaning of a find. When I look back on my finds of long multis, ECs and virtuals, those finds represent the whole experience. If yesterday's EC had instead been 11 traditionals or AL stages, those finds wouldn't have meant the same thing, it would have been 11 little tasks completed instead of one big integrated task. Okay, you might well say power trails have done much the same thing, and perhaps that's why they're not appealing to me either. There's no meat in them. The official Adventure Lab Tips page says, "Set up your experience so all locations can be visited within two (2) hours, ideally walkable" so it's almost as if the intention is for them to be a bunch of cheap finds that don't take much effort.

 

3 hours ago, TmdAndGG said:
4 hours ago, barefootjeff said:

when ALs become mainstream and anyone can create them

I sure hope that doesn't happen...

 

At some point they'll have to go beyond the current limited release regime. The requirement of having to find ALs before you can create them will result in some places becoming saturated with them while huge swathes of countryside will never have any since there'll never be any for the cachers there to find. This current twilight zone they're in where they're part of geocaching but they're not isn't really sustainable either; they should become a completely separate game or be properly integrated with it.

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To be honest, this bugs me as well. Yes, you'd not get a smiley if you don't finish an AL, but you don't either if you only do the start of a multi.

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17 minutes ago, terratin said:

To be honest, this bugs me as well. Yes, you'd not get a smiley if you don't finish an AL, but you don't either if you only do the start of a multi.

I'm not understanding. Can you explain?

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3 hours ago, terratin said:

To be honest, this bugs me as well. Yes, you'd not get a smiley if you don't finish an AL, but you don't either if you only do the start of a multi.

But you do get a smiley for each element in an Adventure Lab, even if you don't complete all elements.

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3 hours ago, Max and 99 said:

I'm not understanding. Can you explain?

 

I see AL as kind of multies with multiple stages. If you don't finish a multi you don't get the smiley, right? I find it odd that I get 5 smileys for finding an AL with 5 stages. For my feeling it focuses too much on numbers rather than the experience. What's the third word on the plaque - smiley - walk 200m - what's the name of the person mentioned? - smiley - walk 150m - etc. It's just a bit too low effort. Mind you, I do enjoy them enough to bother doing them.

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2 minutes ago, elyob said:

But you do get a smiley for each element in an Adventure Lab, even if you don't complete all elements.

 

That's what I mean. I would prefer one smiley per AL, not per stage.

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3 minutes ago, terratin said:

 

I see AL as kind of multies with multiple stages. If you don't finish a multi you don't get the smiley, right? I find it odd that I get 5 smileys for finding an AL with 5 stages. For my feeling it focuses too much on numbers rather than the experience. What's the third word on the plaque - smiley - walk 200m - what's the name of the person mentioned? - smiley - walk 150m - etc. It's just a bit too low effort. Mind you, I do enjoy them enough to bother doing them.

Thank you. 

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, thebruce0 said:

But as mentioned elsewhere, it kind of 'cheapens' the meaning or value of the find count. I'd say meaning more than value, really. What is a "Find"?

 

10 hours ago, barefootjeff said:

It's cheapening the meaning of a find.

 

11 hours ago, Goldenwattle said:

Lab caches 'cheapen' the reward of finds.

That hasn't happened to us yet. If they go mainstream (which like I said, I really don't want happening unless it becomes a separate game) then I'll join the club.

Edited by TmdAndGG

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I have a good idea for Groundspeak: They could make them like benchmarks were you can still see how many you've done on your profile page, but they don't count as a smiley unless they have a bonus cache*.

*Not like benchmarks

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On 6/14/2020 at 2:25 PM, TmdAndGG said:

I have a good idea for Groundspeak: They could make them like benchmarks were you can still see how many you've done on your profile page, but they don't count as a smiley unless they have a bonus cache*.

*Not like benchmarks

 

Now that is a good idea.

We have a lot of mystery caches here that are the 'Bonus' of an AL. I would like to exclude my AL finds from my statistics and only count the mystery.

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2 minutes ago, BaMi said:

 

Now that is a good idea.

We have a lot of mystery caches here that are the 'Bonus' of an AL. I would like to exclude my AL finds from my statistics and only count the mystery.

The forums and the Help Center explain how to do this. I only count one find for each Adventure Lab that I complete. 

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